This surprises me about Poles' plan

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dplank
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Yes, he's operating that way, but those aren't his actual circumstances and that's the problem. As has been discussed ad nauseum here, the NFL salary cap isn't set up as a "hard cash budget".

He needs to balance his desire to get our cap healthy and with his desire to provide help for Justin Fields. My complaint is that he's been unbalanced so far, and he's not done enough to protect Fields.
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IE wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:22 pm
dplank wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:05 pm

Have you ever been to a restaurant and looked at the menu and thought "Damn, I'd like to order steak but they're charging too much for it". Then ordered it anyways and been happy with it? Would it matter if you expected the Steak to cost $30 and they priced it at $31? Or if they priced it at $50?

This absolutism about value and strict adherence is not real world stuff, it's theoretical nonsense. Everything is relative to the amount of the PERCEIVED overpay, the availability of second/third options (like, if there's literally nothing else on that menu you like, you'd just leave because you think they overpriced the steak by a dollar?????), and the needs that you currently have (what if you were starving to death, would you die for that $1?).

Ever heard of Surge Pricing by Uber? If Uber surge priced you're ride and you needed that ride, would you pay more than you think is fair? This also highlights the importance of timing/need/scale - that same ride may be half price an hour later. If it's a $200 ride home from the airport, that drops to $100 you might wait an hour for the price to drop. If it's a $9 ride home from the airport that drops to $7, I'm guessing you wouldn't waste an hour of your life to save $2.

All things are relative and you have simplified this to a nonsensical degree.
Poles is operating as if he has hard cash budget and even though he wants the steak he also needs to get home.
I think Poles went to one of those BBQ joints where they have a limited supply each day, but he missed out and now he's going home hungry instead of stopping at McDonald's across the street, he's going home. He'll go back to the BBQ joint tomorrow and maybe will get lucky, but hes gonna feel the hunger tonight probably. And if he's misses out at the BBQ joint again tomorrow he'll probably settle for McDonald's.
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The Cooler King wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:27 pm
IE wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:22 pm

Poles is operating as if he has hard cash budget and even though he wants the steak he also needs to get home.
I think Poles went to one of those BBQ joints where they have a limited supply each day, but he missed out and now he's going home hungry instead of stopping at McDonald's across the street, he's going home. He'll go back to the BBQ joint tomorrow and maybe will get lucky, but hes gonna feel the hunger tonight probably. And if he's misses out at the BBQ joint again tomorrow he'll probably settle for McDonald's.
I really would like to do one of these analogies. It's a Sunday. I'm having a good time, but fishing was a dud again (too cold), my squatting is done, the Liverpool game is over and Tiger is at like a +10 at Augusta. So other than catching up on my Heavy Metal reading I don't have much going on other than taking my kid for ice cream later because she seriously got like 5 or 6 As on papers and tests at school last week.

Here goes....

Poles went to Gibson's and shit himself when he saw the tomahawk was $145 and a lesser grade steak was like $70.

Even though he was capable of ordering the tomahawk and then certainly the lesser grade steak, some people have a fear of stuff like that even though financially they're cool.

So Poles talked himself into thinking that the filet sliders were a better value because it's still a filet, but not as expensive because it's technically a sandwich. Then he thought he's still getting a great meal because he likes the bread there and the lobster bisque is good too.

Now maybe when he got home he realized he blew a great opportunity to have some fun and create some memories because all he did was order a glorified version of White Castle.

Beat that one you goofy MF'ers.
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Poles went to a nice steakhouse, ordered the cheapest thing on the menu and is stuffing the bread rolls in his pockets for later. Poles is basically my mom.
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dplank wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:05 pm
thunderspirit wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:38 am The argument against signing someone over what you have determined their value to be is that, honestly, it would be signing someone over what you have determined their value to be.
Have you ever been to a restaurant and looked at the menu and thought "Damn, I'd like to order steak but they're charging too much for it". Then ordered it anyways and been happy with it? Would it matter if you expected the Steak to cost $30 and they priced it at $31? Or if they priced it at $50?

This absolutism about value and strict adherence is not real world stuff, it's theoretical nonsense. Everything is relative to the amount of the PERCEIVED overpay, the availability of second/third options (like, if there's literally nothing else on that menu you like, you'd just leave because you think they overpriced the steak by a dollar?????), and the needs that you currently have (what if you were starving to death, would you die for that $1?).

Ever heard of Surge Pricing by Uber? If Uber surge priced you're ride and you needed that ride, would you pay more than you think is fair? This also highlights the importance of timing/need/scale - that same ride may be half price an hour later. If it's a $200 ride home from the airport, that drops to $100 you might wait an hour for the price to drop. If it's a $9 ride home from the airport that drops to $7, I'm guessing you wouldn't waste an hour of your life to save $2.

All things are relative and you have simplified this to a nonsensical degree.
It's no less absolutist theoretical nonsense than the concept of overpaying just because you can, or because you realize it's someone else's money.

All commodities have a worth. If that worth is more than you're willing to pay, you don't pay it. Of course the scale slides somewhat, relatively speaking. But whether or not I acquire that commodity is still based on what I'm willing to pay. If it's higher than that and it isn't worth the higher price to me, I don't buy it.

Whether it's worth the higher price to you is irrelevant to whether it's worth the price to me, if I'm the one paying for it.
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
:shocked:
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AZ_Bearfan wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:54 pm Poles went to a nice steakhouse, ordered the cheapest thing on the menu and is stuffing the bread rolls in his pockets for later. Poles is basically my mom.
:lol:

It's also how you avoid having $50M in dead money on your credit card. :D
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
:shocked:
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It’s going to be a L-O-N-G off season
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:04 pm It’s going to be a L-O-N-G off season
Not every offseason can have an amazing self sustaining ecosystem like the Gardner Minshew thread.

That thread is still the best thing any of us has ever done here.
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AZ_Bearfan wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:54 pm Poles went to a nice steakhouse, ordered the cheapest thing on the menu and is stuffing the bread rolls in his pockets for later. Poles is basically my mom.
ROTFLMAO! I died reading that.

When my mom would go to a steakhouse she would order a salad.

Does that make her Ryan Pace?
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:52 pm
AZ_Bearfan wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:54 pm Poles went to a nice steakhouse, ordered the cheapest thing on the menu and is stuffing the bread rolls in his pockets for later. Poles is basically my mom.
When my mom would go to a steakhouse she would order a salad.

Does that make her Ryan Pace?
What would Nagy order?
.
..

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dplank wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:02 am
Bearfacts wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 9:44 pm


Based on our current cap limitations and the manner in which Poles plans to rebuild I believe he's taken the right approach. Why?

As much as possible he's currently adding core vets who are in their prime years both as potential starters and as depth. Most are the kind of "lunchbucket" types many teams are built around. Wherever he needs to fill a position he's filling as many as he can prior to the draft and I'm convinced he'll add even more low cost vets after the draft. It's pretty much Roster Building #101 right now.

In some cases the players he's bringing in will meet or even exceed expectations while others will end up becoming disappointments. The scouting and personnel guys can only do so much. They can't play the game for the guys they're touting and if scouting was perfect there would never be another failed draft pick. Every rookie would end up with his ideal team and flourish.

In 2023 the cap should be well over $220 mil and by 2024 it could easily go as high as $250 mil. Having now shed costly deals that would still be "on the books" then he'll have more than enough cap to extend keepers and impact players as well as add some key pieces in FA. But IMHO it makes little sense to spend on impact players at skill positions until the OL and DL have been rebuilt and quality depth added.
Maybe he should’ve spent a little on OL then to get to this nirvana starting point you seek? Draft will take time to pan out, need to attack it from both sides IMO or you’re looking at a 4 year rebuild instead of 2, and you lose Fields rookie contract cost benefit.
How has he not focused on the OL? Patrick was one of his first signings to play OC and QB the OL in Getsy's offense. Then he hands Ryan Bates an offers sheet with expectations he could fill the RG spot. Unfortunately Buffalo matched it so that attempt didn't break our way. I have little doubt Poles will draft an OG who he believes will start as a rookie and add UDFA IOL too.

Pace spent a 2021 2nd and 5th on two OTs who still need to be evaluated throughout the summer as the potential starters at LT and RT. So other than adding a vet OT post draft and quite possibly drafting one and signing UDFA OT what else is there for Poles to do in order to come up with two starters and a swing OT? The OT closet isn't exactly empty and vet FA are still out there.

Here's what I don't get about all of the crapping about the OL. Poles was an OT himself as was Ian Cunningham his Asst GM. Both have worked for teams who've drafted and developed top shelf OL. If there's anyone who should be trusted to know what they're doing as far as re-tooling the OL I would think it would be these two. So let them do their jobs then critique them.

As the benefit of Fields rookie contract why should they worry about that now? He's in year two of having full control of him under that deal for five years. Only 20% of that time has been spent. 80% remains which is more than enough time to re-tool both the offense and the defense around the visions Poles and Eberflus have for this team. They are not in a crisis mode period.
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Bearfacts wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:12 pm
dplank wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:02 am

Maybe he should’ve spent a little on OL then to get to this nirvana starting point you seek? Draft will take time to pan out, need to attack it from both sides IMO or you’re looking at a 4 year rebuild instead of 2, and you lose Fields rookie contract cost benefit.
How has he not focused on the OL? Patrick was one of his first signings to play OC and QB the OL in Getsy's offense. Then he hands Ryan Bates an offers sheet with expectations he could fill the RG spot. Unfortunately Buffalo matched it so that attempt didn't break our way. I have little doubt Poles will draft an OG who he believes will start as a rookie and add UDFA IOL too.

Pace spent a 2021 2nd and 5th on two OTs who still need to be evaluated throughout the summer as the potential starters at LT and RT. So other than adding a vet OT post draft and quite possibly drafting one and signing UDFA OT what else is there for Poles to do in order to come up with two starters and a swing OT? The OT closet isn't exactly empty and vet FA are still out there.

Here's what I don't get about all of the crapping about the OL. Poles was an OT himself as was Ian Cunningham his Asst GM. Both have worked for teams who've drafted and developed top shelf OL. If there's anyone who should be trusted to know what they're doing as far as re-tooling the OL I would think it would be these two. So let them do their jobs then critique them.

As the benefit of Fields rookie contract why should they worry about that now? He's in year two of having full control of him under that deal for five years. Only 20% of that time has been spent. 80% remains which is more than enough time to re-tool both the offense and the defense around the visions Poles and Eberflus have for this team. They are not in a crisis mode period.
Nice post!
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The Cooler King wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:03 am
Bearfacts wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 9:44 pmBut IMHO it makes little sense to spend on impact players at skill positions until the OL and DL have been rebuilt and quality depth added.
This is an incredible logical error.
LOL....your opinion notwithstanding I'm not often accused of being illogical and I'll stand by what I posted.

Answer me this though. Had we spent the kind of money LV just did for Adams while Nagy was still HC and insistent on doing things his way and with Andy Dalton at QB would that alone have even gotten us to the playoffs? Even if we were able to draft one of the top two or three WR in this draft do you honestly believe we're secure enough in our OL and their abilities to both successfully operate the planned run blocking scheme and protect Fields far better than the 2021 version did? We don't know that yet.

There are still some aging vet WR still unsigned who not that long ago were considered the cream of the crop. Post draft guys like that will be more open to shorter term deals for less money than they may be now. This is a deep draft for WR talent. That benefits us two ways. 1) We're more likely to find a quality WR even in rounds two or three, and 2) If we're still not happy with the WR core there will still be unsigned vet FA to look at and possibly sign. But secure the OL first. In my lifetime the Bears have never won a championship without a top shelf OL. Not in 1963, not in 1985, and not in 2006. What does that tell us?
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pus wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:11 am I agree with your thinking but I also think this is a good time for the one-year "prove it" contracts.

I wish I would have gone that route in my pre-nups.
LOLOL....make that two of us. :toast:
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Crazy food analogies aside I think most fans just suck at valuing the market. We're 90% cheap bastards who thinks our view of the market rate is one thing when it isn't. This shits inherently difficult and people try to finesse it too much time with theoretical plans when historical success is often just as much about blunt force with some lighting in a bottle (and that's okay)
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:08 pm
TheWorldBreaker wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:42 pm If you sign a guy to a 3 year deal and he doesn’t buy in you’re stuck with that contract whereas you aren’t stuck with a guy on a one year small deal and some of these guys could actually be cut without causing much harm based on their guaranteed money.
Doesn't it depend on how a contract is structured? You can have a 3-year deal where all or almost all the guarantees are paid out in the first year. If the player doesn't pan out you can cut him after one year with no or minimal cap hit. If he does pan out then you've got him on a good deal for another two years. Of course, it all depends on whether the player and his agent would agree to such a deal.
But that only works when the team has enough cap room to absorb that contracts guaranteed money in year one. We don't. Many of the deals Poles has signed have lesser guarantees and per game bonuses to protect against injuries. In other cases while the player is getting a one year vet minimum based on previous experience his cap hit is only that of a 2nd year player; $895k.

Poles had a whole lot of roster spots to fill and not nearly enough cap to front load deals with significant amounts of upfront money in year one. If instead you put that into a larger signing bonus amortized over the 3 years then once again we end up with dead cap in years 2 and 3 after the player has been released. Do that and we're right back to how Pace got into this jam to begin with.
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IE wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:39 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:02 am

I see his point.

Teams should be built from the ball outwards. OL, DL, and QB.
I see & agree with his point too. But highlighted the part of this notion where people's opinions seem to be going separate ways. It is "build" not "buy", or "instantly transform". Poles knows he has to build a high quality core on both sides of the ball. But he also knows that it doesn't happen overnight, and also needs to happen within his constraints and in consideration of what he knows about his current inventory, what he thinks he might know, and the opportunity costs.

Pace gifted Poles with a couple of promising rookie OTs and an inside with a bunch of questions. He's just focusing initially on the biggest questions or existing gaps. He also gifted him with zero depth at other important positions which, while not "linemen", are critical pieces of a good football team. It is way-oversimplifying to say that nothing else can/should happen until the lines are built. Linemen don't run routes or defend guys running at 4.4 speed down field. So WHILE OL is clearly A top priority, the notion of building a team in a serial fashion and only caring about the trenches until they are fully baked... just doesn't work IRL.
I'm not suggesting the OL needs to be fully baked but at the very least I believe you'd at least want to know that you have the right ingredients and how well those meld with each other. Once that's been done then you can bake it. Right now Poles is still in that initial step of acquiring and mixing the ingredients to determine how that will come out. Baking begins in September.

Pace did leave Poles two young OT but are they a good fit for the OL this team plans to assemble? Pace and Nagy seemed to have a somewhat different approach to blocking schemes and the type of OL needed to run them. Last year OL were asked to gain weight for that approach. This year some players may be asked to lose weight to add speed and agility.

I sure as hell don't know what we have yet. I'm guessing not many of the rest of us do either and it's probable that even Poles and Eberflus don't know yet and the OL is only one unit. The rest also have their share of uncertainty as well. The solution seems to be bringing in as many rookies and vets as needed in order to create a competitive 53 man roster and 10 man PS.

IMHO it's way to early in the game to know what this team is gonna look like come September.
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It’s not too early, we know what the core of the team will look like. It’s what we have now plus a handful of draft choices that we have no idea if they can play in the NFL or not. Add in a couple more vet minimum cast offs, and there’s your 2022 Bears. The difference makers are gone, we have what we have and it’s not changing in any meaningful way between now and September.

I really can't understand why folks keep repeating this. The fact that September is still almost 7 months away is utterly meaningless. The talent that could make a real difference in the outlook of the 2022 Bears is gone, the best we can hope for now is we land a decent vet cast off (either before June cuts or after) that helps a bit here or there and our some of our draft picks hit - but the team we have now is basically the team we will have in September, and we won't have any idea at all about the drafted guys because they won't have played a snap of real football yet.
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dplank wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:57 pm It’s not too early, we know what the core of the team will look like. It’s what we have now plus a handful of draft choices that we have no idea if they can play in the NFL or not. Add in a couple more vet minimum cast offs, and there’s your 2022 Bears. The difference makers are gone, we have what we have and it’s not changing in any meaningful way between now and September.

I really can't understand why folks keep repeating this. The fact that September is still almost 7 months away is utterly meaningless. The talent that could make a real difference in the outlook of the 2022 Bears is gone, the best we can hope for now is we land a decent vet cast off (either before June cuts or after) that helps a bit here or there and our some of our draft picks hit - but the team we have now is basically the team we will have in September, and we won't have any idea at all about the drafted guys because they won't have played a snap of real football yet.
And in my world that adds up to a whole of unknowns doesn't it? My point is with a few exceptions we still aren't certain who all of the starters will be if only because we haven't drafted yet or filled out holes with vet FA. Players have names. We lack quite a few of those names right now and that was my point about not knowing 100% for certain what our roster will look like in Sept.

Compare now to last season. Were there anywhere near as many question marks as to who our starters would be?

Folks keep repeating what's true. Poles and Eberflus are re-tooling this entire team. We'll be playing a different defense and a very different offense from what we saw under Nagy. So there are a lot of unknowns at the moment. Some will become more clear during camp and preseason while others won't play out until well into the season. It's gonna be a year to regroup.
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Bearfacts wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:29 pm
IE wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:39 am

I see & agree with his point too. But highlighted the part of this notion where people's opinions seem to be going separate ways. It is "build" not "buy", or "instantly transform". Poles knows he has to build a high quality core on both sides of the ball. But he also knows that it doesn't happen overnight, and also needs to happen within his constraints and in consideration of what he knows about his current inventory, what he thinks he might know, and the opportunity costs.

Pace gifted Poles with a couple of promising rookie OTs and an inside with a bunch of questions. He's just focusing initially on the biggest questions or existing gaps. He also gifted him with zero depth at other important positions which, while not "linemen", are critical pieces of a good football team. It is way-oversimplifying to say that nothing else can/should happen until the lines are built. Linemen don't run routes or defend guys running at 4.4 speed down field. So WHILE OL is clearly A top priority, the notion of building a team in a serial fashion and only caring about the trenches until they are fully baked... just doesn't work IRL.
I'm not suggesting the OL needs to be fully baked but at the very least I believe you'd at least want to know that you have the right ingredients and how well those meld with each other. Once that's been done then you can bake it. Right now Poles is still in that initial step of acquiring and mixing the ingredients to determine how that will come out. Baking begins in September.

Pace did leave Poles two young OT but are they a good fit for the OL this team plans to assemble? Pace and Nagy seemed to have a somewhat different approach to blocking schemes and the type of OL needed to run them. Last year OL were asked to gain weight for that approach. This year some players may be asked to lose weight to add speed and agility.

I sure as hell don't know what we have yet. I'm guessing not many of the rest of us do either and it's probable that even Poles and Eberflus don't know yet and the OL is only one unit. The rest also have their share of uncertainty as well. The solution seems to be bringing in as many rookies and vets as needed in order to create a competitive 53 man roster and 10 man PS.

IMHO it's way to early in the game to know what this team is gonna look like come September.
The problem with the OL is what KNOWN quantities do we have?

LT: ?
LG: Whitehair. Not so good. On the downside.
C: The new one from the Packers. How do we KNOW what he's going to be? We've got an idea that he's going to be good. But that's it.
RG: Borom? Unproven 5th round pick that at times got spanked at RT.
RT: Jenkins. He had back issues last year. His initial return was not good. He improved later but it was late into the season at that point. We don't know crap about how he's going to turn out.

So even though we had all the cap room we needed to make a signing, we didn't do anything. I'm not sure how that inaction can be defended.
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I recognize and agree that there is uncertainty. Where I seem to disagree with some (many?) is on the idea of making big moves when you don't even know what you have... like playing 5 card draw and picking 2-3 cards to replace before you even look at them. OK - maybe this is a *bit* different... maybe you get slightly better cards if you select them for replacement before you look. BUT then you'd also risk replacing a card that would really help you.

That is the key difference we have. Poles doesn't agree with anyone who claims to know exactly what the Bears have. I agree with him. Poles is just wanting to fully look at his hand. He knows that he may be missing out on a bit of upside, and is taking that risk. It is *possible* that he already feels strongly that he has a LT in Jenk and has a RT in Borom. Whatever... he wants to get a better sense for what he has in existing assets before he goes and potentially chops down trees in the wrong forest. It is as simple as that. I don't expect a splash in terms of OL FA until next year.

TMP - I completely reject these speculative lineups that show Jenk only at RT and Borom moved inside. I consider those to be comment section-type depth charts and doesn't really reflect what the Bears have, which is two decent young prospects at OT who showed they could play even as inexperienced rookies (in Nagy's system!), a stable guy at LG who likely has several years left, a new center plucked from the Packers by the Bears new OC and ONE open spot at RG (which will certainly be coming in the draft). It is complete nonsense that this Oline will get JF1 killed. Even with last year's line he was only averaging getting sacked less than 3 times a game. Which is average, and for a running QB to be expected.
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IE wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:25 am I recognize and agree that there is uncertainty. Where I seem to disagree with some (many?) is on the idea of making big moves when you don't even know what you have... like playing 5 card draw and picking 2-3 cards to replace before you even look at them. OK - maybe this is a *bit* different... maybe you get slightly better cards if you select them for replacement before you look. BUT then you'd also risk replacing a card that would really help you.

That is the key difference we have. Poles doesn't agree with anyone who claims to know exactly what the Bears have. I agree with him. Poles is just wanting to fully look at his hand. He knows that he may be missing out on a bit of upside, and is taking that risk. It is *possible* that he already feels strongly that he has a LT in Jenk and has a RT in Borom. Whatever... he wants to get a better sense for what he has in existing assets before he goes and potentially chops down trees in the wrong forest. It is as simple as that. I don't expect a splash in terms of OL FA until next year.

TMP - I completely reject these speculative lineups that show Jenk only at RT and Borom moved inside. I consider those to be comment section-type depth charts and doesn't really reflect what the Bears have, which is two decent young prospects at OT who showed they could play even as inexperienced rookies (in Nagy's system!), a stable guy at LG who likely has several years left, a new center plucked from the Packers by the Bears new OC and ONE open spot at RG (which will certainly be coming in the draft). It is complete nonsense that this Oline will get JF1 killed. Even with last year's line he was only averaging getting sacked less than 3 times a game. Which is average, and for a running QB to be expected.
This would be a better justification if the answer wasn't "exceedingly little".
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dplank wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:57 pm It’s not too early, we know what the core of the team will look like. It’s what we have now plus a handful of draft choices that we have no idea if they can play in the NFL or not. Add in a couple more vet minimum cast offs, and there’s your 2022 Bears. The difference makers are gone, we have what we have and it’s not changing in any meaningful way between now and September.

I really can't understand why folks keep repeating this. The fact that September is still almost 7 months away is utterly meaningless. The talent that could make a real difference in the outlook of the 2022 Bears is gone, the best we can hope for now is we land a decent vet cast off (either before June cuts or after) that helps a bit here or there and our some of our draft picks hit - but the team we have now is basically the team we will have in September, and we won't have any idea at all about the drafted guys because they won't have played a snap of real football yet.
He wasn't going to sign a bunch of high priced difference makers. He literally said it.
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The Cooler King wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:46 am
IE wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:25 am I recognize and agree that there is uncertainty. Where I seem to disagree with some (many?) is on the idea of making big moves when you don't even know what you have... like playing 5 card draw and picking 2-3 cards to replace before you even look at them. OK - maybe this is a *bit* different... maybe you get slightly better cards if you select them for replacement before you look. BUT then you'd also risk replacing a card that would really help you.

That is the key difference we have. Poles doesn't agree with anyone who claims to know exactly what the Bears have. I agree with him. Poles is just wanting to fully look at his hand. He knows that he may be missing out on a bit of upside, and is taking that risk. It is *possible* that he already feels strongly that he has a LT in Jenk and has a RT in Borom. Whatever... he wants to get a better sense for what he has in existing assets before he goes and potentially chops down trees in the wrong forest. It is as simple as that. I don't expect a splash in terms of OL FA until next year.

TMP - I completely reject these speculative lineups that show Jenk only at RT and Borom moved inside. I consider those to be comment section-type depth charts and doesn't really reflect what the Bears have, which is two decent young prospects at OT who showed they could play even as inexperienced rookies (in Nagy's system!), a stable guy at LG who likely has several years left, a new center plucked from the Packers by the Bears new OC and ONE open spot at RG (which will certainly be coming in the draft). It is complete nonsense that this Oline will get JF1 killed. Even with last year's line he was only averaging getting sacked less than 3 times a game. Which is average, and for a running QB to be expected.
This would be a better justification if the answer wasn't "exceedingly little".
Don't know what the answer was for, since there wasn't a question in my post.
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The positives to the OL situation are that both Poles and his deputy are former O-lineman and that OL is a position where rookies can be effective straightaway. It's not like QB or TE where it is expected to take a year or two before they take flight. If Poles and his team get their evaluations right then it's very possible for a couple of starting-calibre OL to be drafted and be Year One contributors.

The problem is that it's far from just the OL that needs a talent influx. Poles can't fix everything in one offseason, so let's cut him some slack and just see how things go. This team somehow managed to win 6 games last season with Nagy's inept offense and a below-average defense and it hasn't lost many significant contributors because most of those who have left were either injured for long spells (Mack, Hicks, Trevathan, Cohen) or majorly underperformed (Goldman, Nichols) or both (Robinson). A new coaching staff may boost team performance beyond the sum of its parts or at least match what Nagy's regime managed. None of us expects much of anything next season, just signs of better days to come in future.
AZ_Bearfan wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:54 pm Poles is basically my mom.
OK, who's going to be first to add this to their sig? :D
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IE wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:25 am TMP - I completely reject these speculative lineups that show Jenk only at RT and Borom moved inside. I consider those to be comment section-type depth charts and doesn't really reflect what the Bears have, which is two decent young prospects at OT who showed they could play even as inexperienced rookies (in Nagy's system!), a stable guy at LG who likely has several years left, a new center plucked from the Packers by the Bears new OC and ONE open spot at RG (which will certainly be coming in the draft). It is complete nonsense that this Oline will get JF1 killed. Even with last year's line he was only averaging getting sacked less than 3 times a game. Which is average, and for a running QB to be expected.
I hope you’re right.

What I’m trying to say is that we don’t KNOW and the OL was a glaring disaster last season.

How is that not priority #1 in FA? We don’t sign ONE GUY of substance? One?

How can a front office have a probable franchise QB, see how the OL performed last year, and effectively sit on their hands?

Granted the draft hasn’t happened yet. We may very well select some nasty corn fed motherfucker and have another piece of the puzzle.

But to me the problem was a bit more urgent than waiting for the draft.

I do understand the one year deal or stop gap strategy for the defensive side of the ball. We had bad contracts, old players and a change in scheme.

But on offense we’ve got a QB to protect and I’m not getting any sense of urgency about that.
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Poles must be holding some or most of the remaining OL he kept as quite viable - I think that is the answer, and people just don't like it because they don't agree. I think the answer is yes you're right that he is not having the same sense of urgency about something he doesn't agree is as urgent. What some perceive as urgency others perceive as panic. There are reasons for both perspectives but nobody is definitely "right" until we see the results. So hard to find common ground, right? Let's just see what happens during and right after the draft. The world can really change. We were all jacked about getting JF1 and two OTs last year. I for one still am.

Honestly I thought I saw enough from Jenk and Borom last year under McNagy to make me comfortable that they can play well enough under a new more competent regime. McNagy didn't prepare players for games, and there is some evidence he didn't prepare people properly in the offseason. The team was clearly undisciplined and out of synch in addition to some (IMO) sketch play calling and game planning.

So my take on Jenkins is not only can he be the starting LT but it was astonishing how good he was and the presence he showed given that he basically didn't practice at all & then was thrown in to start against the Packers and Vikes. I was pissed and hated McNagy for not letting Jenk play out the season (the fucker). I think Borom really only had one truly bad game and as such I dismiss that kind of game for a rookie. Especially under McNagy, and also because I thought he played SO well at LT in his time there that I was thinking he might be the LT of the future. He showed really good feet and given his lack of experience on that side I thought it was really something. Poles said he felt like some guys were playing out of position (a quote). Some took that as Borom is a G. But to me that could easily alternatively mean that Borom should be on the left and Jenk on the right.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:10 am
AZ_Bearfan wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:54 pm Poles is basically my mom.
OK, who's going to be first to add this to their sig? :D
I don't know what you mean. ;)
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
:shocked:
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IE wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:05 am
The Cooler King wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:46 am
This would be a better justification if the answer wasn't "exceedingly little".
Don't know what the answer was for, since there wasn't a question in my post.
I guess what I mean is that it isn't even like it's a mixed bag or something. Like exceedingly little good or bad. It's just super inexperienced. There's enough apparent holes that 2 or 3 more spots filled shouldn't be viewed negatively like you might fill a hole you don't actually need filled.
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IE wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:59 am I think Borom really only had one truly bad game and as such I dismiss that kind of game for a rookie.
It was more than 1.


The site is currently down, but I quoted it elsewhere already:
Some people will be quick to defend the rookie tackle.
They felt he played pretty solid under the circumstances last year. Yet the hard data doesn’t support this. Things were fine through his first five starts, allowing one sack and 11 pressures. However, things got ugly over the final four games. He gave up a staggering 21 pressures and four sacks during that stretch. To top it off, his run blocking wasn’t much better. Now, this is not to say Larry Borom can’t improve, but it helps illustrate why Poles and Matt Eberflus might not be big on keeping him a starter.
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