JF1 and WR Chemistry

[dave99]

It's getting more difficult to face each new season with any optimism but at least for now this time it does feel different. For years the Bears tried to link whatever they had to whatever they could bring in to patch up the issues with what they had. This time Poles told GMcC you have bupkis here and we need to start over again but do it the right way this time.

Very important point. Richard Feynman famously said that "You must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.”
Poles is a realist and he has a plan that he believes in. He has brought in experienced personnel, front office and coaching to help bring the plan to fruition. That already puts him miles ahead of Pace and Nagy.

Another important consideration brought up by other observers, the Bears have never managed to get their GM, HC and rookie QB at the same point and at the same time. All on the same page and with the same vision.
Obviously, they still haven't, but with Poles perspective and Fields intelligence and determination, this is as close as they have been.

[RichH55]

It's getting more difficult to face each new season with any optimism but at least for now this time it does feel different. For years the Bears tried to link whatever they had to whatever they could bring in to patch up the issues with what they had. This time Poles told GMcC you have bupkis here and we need to start over again but do it the right way this time.

Very important point. Richard Feynman famously said that "You must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.”
Poles is a realist and he has a plan that he believes in. He has brought in experienced personnel, front office and coaching to help bring the plan to fruition. That already puts him miles ahead of Pace and Nagy.

Another important consideration brought up by other observers, the Bears have never managed to get their GM, HC and rookie QB at the same point and at the same time. All on the same page and with the same vision.
Obviously, they still haven't, but with Poles perspective and Fields intelligence and determination, this is as close as they have been.

Surely you're joking with a Feynman reference!~

[Arkansasbear]

I think even just improving on this seemingly simple thing will help elevate JF1. Losing Robinson may actually be addition by subtraction.

Those are both TDs if Fields throws the ball on time. I've never been as high on Robinson as some, and I don't like how he seemed to check out last season. But these here are examples of the QB leaving his WR spinning his wheels, not the WR letting his QB down.

I don't agree with take very much, but let's say that is the case. Aren't you both saying the same thing but maybe pointing the finger at a different person? If Fields let Robinson "spin his wheels" they don't have good chemistry and Fields gets more in line with whoever replaces Robinson so that he "doesn't spin his wheels" we have improved the chemistry and hopefully get better results with Robinson gone. If Robinson didn't understand what Fields expected him to do and the new guy does, we would say they have better chemistry and hopefully put up better numbers than Robinson did.

So I think everyone is in agreement as to the problem maybe just not the cause.

[RichH55]

Those are both TDs if Fields throws the ball on time. I've never been as high on Robinson as some, and I don't like how he seemed to check out last season. But these here are examples of the QB leaving his WR spinning his wheels, not the WR letting his QB down.

I don't agree with take very much, but let's say that is the case. Aren't you both saying the same thing but maybe pointing the finger at a different person? If Fields let Robinson "spin his wheels" they don't have good chemistry and Fields gets more in line with whoever replaces Robinson so that he "doesn't spin his wheels" we have improved the chemistry and hopefully get better results with Robinson gone. If Robinson didn't understand what Fields expected him to do and the new guy does, we would say they have better chemistry and hopefully put up better numbers than Robinson did.

So I think everyone is in agreement as to the problem maybe just not the cause.

Fields needs to learn whats open at Ohio State is very different than whats open (and when its open) in the Pros.

Until he learns that lesson - the WR - save for the Absolute beasts won't matter all that much

[Heinz D.]

There's also the one that went right between Arobs arms in the end zone. Forgot which game. But god how can a good player play just so damn bad in a contract year?

Robinson is mentally weak. We've seen it even before last season--when he was stressing about his contract, and his money.

Not going to sift through every post here, but Robinson phoned it in last year. Anybody pretending otherwise is fooling themselves.

He got paid $18 mil, and didn't even have five hundred receiving yards. And gaffed all over the place, like we see in the OPs videos.

Whether someone is sorry he's gone, or happy he's gone, I think it's obvious that there's no way in hell Poles could justify re-signing him...

[Bearfacts]

There's also the one that went right between Arobs arms in the end zone. Forgot which game. But god how can a good player play just so damn bad in a contract year?

Robinson is mentally weak. We've seen it even before last season--when he was stressing about his contract, and his money.

Not going to sift through every post here, but Robinson phoned it in last year. Anybody pretending otherwise is fooling themselves.

He got paid $18 mil, and didn't even have five hundred receiving yards. And gaffed all over the place, like we see in the OPs videos.

Whether someone is sorry he's gone, or happy he's gone, I think it's obvious that there's no way in hell Poles could justify re-signing him...

Yep. Whatever animosity that may have developed over a contract extension did appear to impact his play last year.

From what he was quoted as saying he preferred to stay in Chicago but other than whatever rumors leaked out either Pace didn't go all out to make that happen or ARob and his agent over valued him by so much there was no hope of finding a compromise. I recall some numbers being leaked but who knows how accurate they were.

What I do find odd though is that I believe he could have gotten a deal similar to the one he got from LA but he wanted more. A lot more. The other issue I have is with Pace. If he knew there was no way they were ever gonna come to an agreement why not trade him as opposed to tagging him at $18 mil for one year?

Most likely because both he and Nagy were trying to hold onto their jobs and trading their #1 WR would not have helped? My take on it all is that as a team we made the worst decision we possibly could have both for ARob and the Bears. I can only guess what his trade value might have been but I would like to think we could have gotten at least a 3rd round pick for him.

[Yogi da Bear]

No argument there--I anted up by calling Robinson a putz a few posts back.

I just don't think that chemistry is to blame in the examples shared here, or on any number of similar plays from last year. What I see is a QB who's uncomfortable with what the play is asking him to do. Specifically, reading coverages quickly enough to anticipate when guys will come open, and throwing the ball just as they begin to, or even a tick before. That's nothing to do with Nagy, really, or the receivers--every system is going to ask him to do that, including Getsy's.

Chemistry would seem to be a function of how reliably receivers are where they're supposed to be. If Fields needs to see major separation before he feels comfortable throwing the ball, the major adjustment is his to make, not the receivers'.

I think that's a fair assessment, one of the things Fields has to work on and quite possibly has prepared himself for via some film study. It's a habit he has to shed left over from college where his receivers were generally wide open as compared to the tighter coverages and more complex NFL zone schemes. If he can learn to read a defense pre and post snap it's fixable.

The rest will come from developing the necessary rapport with all of his receivers. He needs to know where to expect his guys to make their breaks or when they will extend their routes and they need to do that dependably. That takes time and practice. The kind of time and practice he never got last summer when Nagy was insisting Dalton would be his #1 and got most of the reps.

I agree that those two examples had nothing to do with "chemistry." They had to do with ARob being a lackadaisical dick. He just gave up.

What JF1 has to work on with respect to chemistry is throwing his receiver open. Right now, JF1 relies on seeing separation before throwing the ball. The separation doesn't have to be great for him right now. Look at some of his tight completions--amazing. But what he doesn't do is throw with anticipation--before the cut. That comes with studying and confidence in your receiver which comes from chemistry.

He has to rethink his response to Jimmy Graham last year, "Get open and I'll throw it to you." That's him recognizing that he has to see some separation before throwing it. No, Justin, in the NFL, sometimes you have to throw your receiver open. You have to have the confidence that he's going to be where he's supposed to be. Hopefully, your work with Mooney and Kmet will show that.

[IE]

It seems like throwing a receiver open has a whole lot to do with QB/WR chemistry.

[Kylo Bearen]

[IE]

I'd love to see a tape of all targets, and not completions. Especially with that completion rate being only 56%.

That CFC tape of Vay Jones showing his missed opportunity at Tennessee was really interesting. I'm guessing the missed opportunity with Mooney will show a lot being left on the table.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Bears QB Justin Fields has 'plenty of confidence' in WR corps to 'get the job done'
...

"We don't have an Odell [Beckham Jr.] or a Cooper Kupp on our team, but at the end of the day I think if everybody is on their P's and Q's, and we're on top of everything and not making mistakes, the players we have right now are good enough," Fields said last week in an interview with Bleacher Report. "The front office thinks that, too. The fans outside of the facility, they don't know what's going on at practice. Just because we don't have a big-name guy doesn't mean those guys aren't talented. I have plenty of confidence in myself and my teammates that we're going to get the job done."
...

"How hard he works," Fields said regarding Mooney. "He's already talented; he's fast and has great hands. On top of that, he works harder than anybody I know other than myself. A couple nights ago, we were in the facility until 12:30 a.m. going through plays and walking through plays for the next day at practice."
...

The early returns have already been positive for Jones, who Fields made a point of praising.

"At rookie minicamp there was one play that stood out to me, he had a 10-yard dig route in and caught it and hit that second gear kick for a touchdown," Fields said. "I think he caught it at 10 yards and took it 60, so he's a great run-after-the-catch guy. He's going to pick up a lot of yards and is physical. He's almost like a running back at receiver. Having him on the outside and putting the ball in his hands and letting him work will be great."
...

Full article: https://www.nfl.com/news/bears-qb-justi ... e-job-done

[Kylo Bearen]

SSN did a video about Justin's confidence in his receiving corp:


According to it The Bills were in the same situation The Bears are; defensive head coach going into the year with a second year signal caller (who had a shaky rookie year), using a similar talent acquisition strategy that Poles is employing and their QB Josh Allen was able to work with it and progress nicely. Buffalo's biggest receiving signing going into that year was Cole Beasley and career backup TE Tyler Croft. And their number one receiver going into the season was a journeyman named John Brown.

In addition Buff didn't have the running back committee like Chi does with David Montgomery and Khalil Herbert. And as much as Kmet is maligned he is better than Croft was. Most importantly they didn't have a pass catcher as good as Mooney who was top ten in yards and receptions last year. Or Byron Pringle who was second in the entire league in creating seperation (the type of WR that Fields excels in hitting).

The Bears obviously don't have the most talented group in offense but it's far from the worst.

[IE]

Yep - then the next year they went and hired Diggs.

[dplank]

On paper they look like one of the worst - which is why I don’t see the national media takes as biased or anything. BUT - and this is a Queen Latifah sized BUT - every former Bear player has the “Nagy stank factor” on them and Poles FA’s are mostly guys who lacked opportunity but flashed potential - opportunity they will get here. So really, it’s impossible to say how they’ll look until we play the games. I totally get that POV and am hopeful that we greatly exceed expectations.

[IE]

Yeah agreed. Totally makes sense that given limited information or context it looks like they're in a low spot. Then introduce ascending players, previously underachieving players, coaches, a good scheme, an emerging QB (hopefully) and coherent play calling on TOP of releasing the Nagy boat anchor... and there is a decent list of things to be optimistic about so that even if some don't prove true hopefully more will than not - and the actual results will be better than the going in high level assumptions and bandwagon narratives.

[The Marshall Plan]

I believe that great QBs make $20M WRs and that great WRs do not make $40M QBs.

Throw a dart at the board of the great QBs over the past 20 years. I could start naming them, but it's massively impossible to name them all and then somebody gets left out.

Many of them have had only 1 elite WR play for them in their career. Maybe 2. Then the WR leaves via FA and you never hear their name again.

Meanwhile the great QB just churns out 4,000 yard seasons with a changing cast of characters or maybe 1 or 2 consistent guys.

Maybe I'm a luddite bastard, but if I've got the money to pay an elite WR, then I've got the money to buy another elite OL and I'd rather have that.

When the OL for this franchise has proven itself and is in the top 10 or 12, then I can see it. Until then, whatever.

[IE]

I believe that great QBs make $20M WRs and that great WRs do not make $40M QBs.

Throw a dart at the board of the great QBs over the past 20 years. I could start naming them, but it's massively impossible to name them all and then somebody gets left out.

Many of them have had only 1 elite WR play for them in their career. Maybe 2. Then the WR leaves via FA and you never hear their name again.

Meanwhile the great QB just churns out 4,000 yard seasons with a changing cast of characters or maybe 1 or 2 consistent guys.

Maybe I'm a luddite bastard, but if I've got the money to pay an elite WR, then I've got the money to buy another elite OL and I'd rather have that.

When the OL for this franchise has proven itself and is in the top 10 or 12, then I can see it. Until then, whatever.

I think this is right far more often than not. There's always an uber-elite player like Jerry Rice or heck Chase that I believe are exceptions. But unless the QB is really good even an elite WR often cannot elevate them (e.g. Randy Moss).

If you need both and can only get one, I'd also go with the tackle. Or maybe a Center - maybe. In Poles's case he needed everything PLUS time to evaluate what he has for real. So his approach, IMO, is perfect.

[RichH55]

One just has to look at James Jones's career to see how much it truly matters

[IE]

One just has to look at James Jones's career to see how much it truly matters

You're going to have to elaborate - sorry

[The Kaiser]

I think even just improving on this seemingly simple thing will help elevate JF1. Losing Robinson may actually be addition by subtraction.

I'm with Karhu here.

I really can't understand how folks can watch these All 22 videos and not see that Fields, in both instances, held the ball too long and missed the throwing opportunity (first clip) or bailed too soon instead of climbing (2nd clip.)

There's no doubt that A Rob gave up at some point in the 21 season but these 2 examples point to missed QB opportunities and poor QB play far more than issues with WR play.

[IE]

I think even just improving on this seemingly simple thing will help elevate JF1. Losing Robinson may actually be addition by subtraction.

I'm with Karhu here.

I really can't understand how folks can watch these All 22 videos and not see that Fields, in both instances, held the ball too long and missed the throwing opportunity (first clip) or bailed too soon instead of climbing (2nd clip.)

There's no doubt that A Rob gave up at some point in the 21 season but these 2 examples point to missed QB opportunities and poor QB play far more than issues with WR play.

How can you say he missed the throwing opportunity when he did throw the ball and if ARob didn't stop he would have been where JF1 wanted to throw it (it looked like he was trying to throw it away eventually)? Maybe he did hold the ball too long, and maybe he ran out to the right to buy time in the second clip - but neither of those things prevented the play. What prevented the plays was ARob quitting routes in both cases. He stopped in both cases. To understand how not to do that, watch tape of Byron Pringle.

[The Kaiser]

I'm with Karhu here.

I really can't understand how folks can watch these All 22 videos and not see that Fields, in both instances, held the ball too long and missed the throwing opportunity (first clip) or bailed too soon instead of climbing (2nd clip.)

There's no doubt that A Rob gave up at some point in the 21 season but these 2 examples point to missed QB opportunities and poor QB play far more than issues with WR play.

How can you say he missed the throwing opportunity when he did throw the ball and if ARob didn't stop he would have been where JF1 wanted to throw it (it looked like he was trying to throw it away eventually)? Maybe he did hold the ball too long, and maybe he ran out to the right to buy time in the second clip - but neither of those things prevented the play. What prevented the plays was ARob quitting routes in both cases. He stopped in both cases. To understand how not to do that, watch tape of Byron Pringle.

In the first video Robinson is pretty much wide open by the time he hits the 40 yard line. JF1 is standing in a clean pocket. By the time A Rob hits the 45 he's even more open and he's looking right at Fields. The deep safety has his hips turned to the outside covering the outside receiver. There is no excuse for Justin not to make that throw.

Instead, he decides to run out of the pocket and reset. During the te he does that, not only does A Rob run out of real estate but the safety has time to flip his hips and come all the way back across the field and pick off the throw.

Fields missed his window.It's not even a question. Could A Rob have tried harder, possibly but that is secondary to the poor decision by the QB to bail and not hit A Rob when he was wide open staring at him and steaking across the hash marks.

In the 2nd video Robinson has an amazing release off the line and blows past the corner. By the time he hits to 30 he's even, by the 33 he's got at least a yard and by the 35 he has two yards of separation. At that point JF1 gets itchy feet and bails.He has plenty of room to step up in the pocket and deliver to Arob again who is wide open and the safety is on the other side of the field. By bailing like he did he missed the window and gave the safety all day to get over to support.

Look, I love Fields and he made some great plays last year.I'm confident that he's going to get better this year too. But these examples really show where he struggled as a rookie last year; holding the ball too long, seeing ghosts from time to time, bailing when he didn't have to.

If anything, the chemistry issue I see here is with his Oline more than with his receiver. When he learns to trust his eyes and his pocket he'll make those throws.

[IE]

He "probably" could have tried harder? You can't be serious. In both cases Robinson killed a potential play by stopping. He had a rookie QB who was not going to do things perfectly, but the "#1 WR" just couldn't be bothered to make an effort.

JF1's athleticism is an advantage and something to be understood by everyone around him. If he decides to roll out to get what he believes is a better angle maybe it isn't the best choice. But for Robinson to quit and stop on a sure TD route because he doesn't like what the QB is doing? That is horseshit.

Many (most?) NFL plays don't go perfectly. But all their jobs is to make A play. ARob blew both of those plays, regardless of JF1's need for development. Not only did he not have chemistry with the QB but he didn't even try. Boo. And good riddance.

[The Kaiser]

He "probably" could have tried harder? You can't be serious. In both cases Robinson killed a potential play by stopping. He had a rookie QB who was not going to do things perfectly, but the "#1 WR" just couldn't be bothered to make an effort.

JF1's athleticism is an advantage and something to be understood by everyone around him. If he decides to roll out to get what he believes is a better angle maybe it isn't the best choice. But for Robinson to quit and stop on a sure TD route because he doesn't like what the QB is doing? That is horseshit.

Many (most?) NFL plays don't go perfectly. But all their jobs is to make A play. ARob blew both of those plays, regardless of JF1's need for development. Not only did he not have chemistry with the QB but he didn't even try. Boo. And good riddance.

OK. Fine.I'll go along with you: A Rob is a total douche bag who gave up in the Beloved and didn't provide his rookie qb with the effort or support he needed and which should be expected from a professional, esp one of Arobs stature and reputation. With that kind of attitude,as you say, good riddance.

Now, with that out of the way can you not see that Fields completely missed the opportunities on both of those plays?

In which case I would assert: Arob didn't kill the 2 plays. You can argue he didn't do enough to keep them alive but the death blow came from the QB, not the receiver.

[AZ_Bearfan]

JF1 absolutely needs to work on seeing the entire field and processing speed post-snap. He's working on his delivery speed and that's great, but he needs to get the mental part down for any of that to pay off. That said, I believe he is working on that and we should see progress this season running a not-bat shit crazy scheme.

I don't know the answer, but do GB receivers pull that kind of crap? I'd imagine AARod would send a goon squad to your locker after the game.

[The Marshall Plan]

He "probably" could have tried harder? You can't be serious. In both cases Robinson killed a potential play by stopping. He had a rookie QB who was not going to do things perfectly, but the "#1 WR" just couldn't be bothered to make an effort.

JF1's athleticism is an advantage and something to be understood by everyone around him. If he decides to roll out to get what he believes is a better angle maybe it isn't the best choice. But for Robinson to quit and stop on a sure TD route because he doesn't like what the QB is doing? That is horseshit.

Many (most?) NFL plays don't go perfectly. But all their jobs is to make A play. ARob blew both of those plays, regardless of JF1's need for development. Not only did he not have chemistry with the QB but he didn't even try. Boo. And good riddance.

OK. Fine.I'll go along with you: A Rob is a total douche bag who gave up in the Beloved and didn't provide his rookie qb with the effort or support he needed and which should be expected from a professional, esp one of Arobs stature and reputation. With that kind of attitude,as you say, good riddance.

Now, with that out of the way can you not see that Fields completely missed the opportunities on both of those plays?

In which case I would assert: Arob didn't kill the 2 plays. You can argue he didn't do enough to keep them alive but the death blow came from the QB, not the receiver.

You're criticizing Fields for the ARob play against GB where the DL jumped, a flag wasn't called, ARob quit the route but Fields threw a pick? OK that's bullshit.

Then the second throw, note the first thing the points out.

FIELDS AVOIDS PRESSURE.

How do you expect the guy to read the field when he's already got the defense in the backfield immediately when the play starts?

[spudbear]

I believe that great QBs make $20M WRs and that great WRs do not make $40M QBs.

Throw a dart at the board of the great QBs over the past 20 years. I could start naming them, but it's massively impossible to name them all and then somebody gets left out.

Many of them have had only 1 elite WR play for them in their career. Maybe 2. Then the WR leaves via FA and you never hear their name again.

Meanwhile the great QB just churns out 4,000 yard seasons with a changing cast of characters or maybe 1 or 2 consistent guys.

Maybe I'm a luddite bastard, but if I've got the money to pay an elite WR, then I've got the money to buy another elite OL and I'd rather have that.

When the OL for this franchise has proven itself and is in the top 10 or 12, then I can see it. Until then, whatever.

Stafford had one of the three best WR's in history with Megatron, yet could make the playoffs maybe once? He then goes to Lala land and wins the SB. Still don't think he's a great QB but apparently good enough.

It still comes down to supporting cast for reaching the ring. Difficult to reach if your QB has little time to make plays.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

He "probably" could have tried harder? You can't be serious. In both cases Robinson killed a potential play by stopping. He had a rookie QB who was not going to do things perfectly, but the "#1 WR" just couldn't be bothered to make an effort.

JF1's athleticism is an advantage and something to be understood by everyone around him. If he decides to roll out to get what he believes is a better angle maybe it isn't the best choice. But for Robinson to quit and stop on a sure TD route because he doesn't like what the QB is doing? That is horseshit.

Many (most?) NFL plays don't go perfectly. But all their jobs is to make A play. ARob blew both of those plays, regardless of JF1's need for development. Not only did he not have chemistry with the QB but he didn't even try. Boo. And good riddance.

OK. Fine.I'll go along with you: A Rob is a total douche bag who gave up in the Beloved and didn't provide his rookie qb with the effort or support he needed and which should be expected from a professional, esp one of Arobs stature and reputation. With that kind of attitude,as you say, good riddance.

Now, with that out of the way can you not see that Fields completely missed the opportunities on both of those plays?

In which case I would assert: Arob didn't kill the 2 plays. You can argue he didn't do enough to keep them alive but the death blow came from the QB, not the receiver.

In both instances:

Did Fields miss opportunities to release the ball a split second earlier? Yes.

Did he then move to avoid pressure and buy time? Yes.

Was the window to make a play closed? No.

Did Robinson then break off/give up on his route? Yes.

Isn't all this just clear evidence of a lack of communication/chemistry/trust between QB and WR? Isn't that to be expected when your idiot head coach doesn't give the rookie QB any reps with the WR all through OTAs, Mini-Camp and Training Camp?

Nagy and his coaches had months to work with Fields, adjust his mechanics, speed up his throwing motion, work on his footwork, work on his timing, build trust with those around him, but they did none of that. Instead they focused their attention on a mediocre veteran QB on a one-year contract. The new coaching staff immediately came in and started addressing Fields' flaws. He should benefit massively from being the epicentre of all the offseason and preseason work and, by extension, so should his receivers.

[IE]

Nobody disagrees that JF1 demonstrated a lack of readiness last year, and made a lot of rookie mistakes. And nobody really disagrees that the Oline often didn't help. And not many disagree that McNagy was a big problem in terms of play calling and team preparation or JF1 preparation (with zero reps in preseason) - which didn't help the Oline or the QB, and *may have* (and it looks like it) helped the opposing defense quite a bit at times.

So to me pointing out JF1 making a mistake is a little bit like saying the sun rose or "I like the Bears" on this site. It is true - but why bother pointing that out? Especially with the slow motion video evidence of the hired gun #1 WR quitting on his rookie QB multiple times in a single game against the biggest rival, when both cases had the real potential to result in huge plays and scoring... something that could be game-changing?

I can't stand McNagy but geez I wonder why he and ARob had some issues and ARob's workload last season was so reduced? McNagy was trying to save his job, and ARob wasn't interested in helping anyone but himself.

[Rusty Trombagent]

You guys are crazy. Unless you've got Matt Nagy's play sheet and know exactly how the play is drawn up, i.e., what ARob's options were on the play, what's Field's progressions, etc... this is all just speculation. It does look like it's legit just two dudes not on the same page. ARob turning around to see what's going on with the play is being automatically construed as "he gave up" when he's not fucking psychic.