New WRs Pettis and Sharpe highlights

[LT2_3]

First off Pettis. I like this guy. He can Juke people at full speed.



Now Sharpe. Not enough tape imo.

[dplank]

Was there another WR named Pettis? This actually isn’t the guy I thought it was. Too much weed maybe

[LT2_3]

Was there another WR named Pettis? This actually isn’t the guy I thought it was. Too much weed maybe

I am forced to trust that the guy making these videos for youtube has actually checked that he has the right guys.

[Richie]

First off Pettis. I like this guy. He can Juke people at full speed.



Now Sharpe. Not enough tape imo.

They're 5th or 6th WR's for any team that isn't totally desperate.

Pettis was really good... in college. He had 739 yards receiving over 4 years in the NFL.

I don't know what you mean by "not enough tape" on Sharpe. He's been in the league for 5 seasons. He's played 66 games. He has a ton of tape. He's just not very good.

[Bearfacts]

Was there another WR named Pettis? This actually isn’t the guy I thought it was. Too much weed maybe

You mean there really IS such a thing? Who da' thunk it.

Note to self; Be more restrained from now on thereby saving brain cells.

[Bearfacts]

First off Pettis. I like this guy. He can Juke people at full speed.



Now Sharpe. Not enough tape imo.

What's not to like?

Pettis shows good speed and elusiveness and good hands. Maybe more of a slot guy or a Z type.

Sharpe's NFL scouting report is very encouraging. He has decent size, length, and route running skills so he's competition for EQ on the outside playing as an X WR. Scouting report actually compliments his precision running his routes.

I've suspected these are the kind of vets Poles would bring in while passing on older higher priced talent. Better than rookies with no NFL experience these guys actually have NFL starts and stats and they hung in the NFL for 6-7 years. So here's a question for those who feel our WR core is really bad.

Are these guys better than say a Javon Wims? A Riley Ridley? An Anthony Miller. A Ted Ginn Jr? So we've had worse.

No one is seeing them as more than potential contributors who may make the final 53 based on experience and at least some previous production. All of the competition is now for the #3-#5 or #6 WR spots and that's about where these guys fit. If nothing else they may provide some decent vet depth while Poles keeps searching to upgrade even more.

I don't mind the additions.

[Moriarty]

I've suspected these are the kind of vets Poles would bring in while passing on older higher priced talent. Better than rookies with no NFL experience these guys actually have NFL starts and stats and they hung in the NFL for 6-7 years. So here's a question for those who feel our WR core is really bad.

Are these guys better than say a Javon Wims? A Riley Ridley? An Anthony Miller. A Ted Ginn Jr? So we've had worse.

No one is seeing them as more than potential contributors who may make the final 53 based on experience and at least some previous production. All of the competition is now for the #3-#5 or #6 WR spots and that's about where these guys fit. If nothing else they may provide some decent vet depth while Poles keeps searching to upgrade even more.

Javon Wims?
Yes
Riley Ridley?
Who knows? Never got to be active because he couldn't contribute on special teams
Anthony Miller?
No
Ted Ginn Jr?
Yes

But that's really all irrelevant. Except for Miller, all of those guys ended up at the bottom of the depth chart.
So, yes, our WR6 or WR5 this year might be better than some previous years.
Their importance is a grain of sand, compared to a sand castle.
WR1-4 is what matters and where this team is weak.

I don't mind the additions.

I don't mind them, either.
But let's not pretend that they're going to fix this WR group.

[thunderspirit]

I don't mind them, either.
But let's not pretend that they're going to fix this WR group.

It's a fair cop, but at the same time, it's also fair that not much this year was going to "fix" that position.

I do expect Pringle to outperform his contract, bur then again that shouldn't be difficult to do. I have zero expectations for Velus Jones Jr from scrimmage or for Equanimious St. Brown from anywhere, so that leaves plenty of room for Sharpe to become Kendall Wright for a year or for Pettis to stay on the field for once.

[Bearfacts]

I've suspected these are the kind of vets Poles would bring in while passing on older higher priced talent. Better than rookies with no NFL experience these guys actually have NFL starts and stats and they hung in the NFL for 6-7 years. So here's a question for those who feel our WR core is really bad.

Are these guys better than say a Javon Wims? A Riley Ridley? An Anthony Miller. A Ted Ginn Jr? So we've had worse.

No one is seeing them as more than potential contributors who may make the final 53 based on experience and at least some previous production. All of the competition is now for the #3-#5 or #6 WR spots and that's about where these guys fit. If nothing else they may provide some decent vet depth while Poles keeps searching to upgrade even more.

Javon Wims?
Yes
Riley Ridley?
Who knows? Never got to be active because he couldn't contribute on special teams
Anthony Miller?
No
Ted Ginn Jr?
Yes

But that's really all irrelevant. Except for Miller, all of those guys ended up at the bottom of the depth chart.
So, yes, our WR6 or WR5 this year might be better than some previous years.
Their importance is a grain of sand, compared to a sand castle.
WR1-4 is what matters and where this team is weak.

I don't mind the additions.

I don't mind them, either.
But let's not pretend that they're going to fix this WR group.

Check out Pettis' TD ratio based on his number of receptions. Only 52 receptions but 9 are TDs. That's one in every 5.8 catches.

Miller may have bettered that in his rookie year with one in every 4.7 catches but after that he fell off pretty fast. At worst I'd call Pettis and Miller about even and Sharpe is in somewhat the same basic category.

And I never said or even implied these guys were signed to "fix" anything. They're here to compete for the #3-#6 WR spots. Mooney and Pringle are #1 and #2 for now. Gimme your best guess for WR #3-#6.

[Moriarty]

And I never said or even implied these guys were signed to "fix" anything.

But you did say

So here's a question for those who feel our WR core is really bad.

Are these guys better than say a Javon Wims? A Riley Ridley? An Anthony Miller. A Ted Ginn Jr? So we've had worse.

which is baffling and confusing. "for those who feel our WR core is really bad"? I would have thought that was "everyone", but apparently you don't agree that it's bad. Since they basically dumped everyone who got snaps last year, except for Mooney, who have they added that's elevating this group up to average? Jones will be fine in his limited role of "guy who gets forcefed the ball in short dumps, because he can't get open". After that, Pringle, ESB, Moore, Pettis, Sharpe? I truly don't know who you think is making this group ok.
Since the post is about Pettis and Sharpe being better than Wims and Ginn, it seems like those guys making the team (or not even being able to make the team) is supposed to be evidence of the WR group being not bad.

They're here to compete for the #3-#6 WR spots. Mooney and Pringle are #1 and #2 for now. Gimme your best guess for WR #3-#6.

Mooney, Pringle, Jones will make the team and probably be all top 4 in opportunity
ESB probably makes the squad
After that, it's a complete free-for-all for the remaining spots, with 6 guys having legit shots at 2 slots. Maybe Sharpe with a slight edge.

That may provide some minor intrigue for fans. But it also ought to tell you something. Much like the old adage "If you think you have 2 QBs, you probably don't have any", "If you've got a half dozen guys with a shot at a roster spot, it's because you've gone all the way down the talent ladder to the point where everyone is nearly equal".

[dplank]

It's a fair cop, but at the same time, it's also fair that not much this year was going to "fix" that position.

This is absolutely untrue. This offseason was historic in terms of big name talent moving from team to team. We had the cap space. We chose not to get involved (I’m not arguing why Poles chose this path, simply noting it was a choice he made). Adding a Tyreke Hill or Davante Adam’s or AJ Brown would have 100% fixed the WR position. Mooney would be a great #2. Jones #3. We’d be absolutely stacked.

Again, not a discussion about whether or not you think those moves were moves we should have made or not - simply noting that there was ample opportunity to fix WR this offseason if Poles wanted to.

The complaint people keep making isnt about the low end talent we’ve added per se, we have great depth now. It’s that we are weak at the top of the depth chart. Each guy is one step higher than they should be. Mooney should be a 2 not a 1. Pringle should be a 3 not a 2.

[thunderspirit]

It's a fair cop, but at the same time, it's also fair that not much this year was going to "fix" that position.

This is absolutely untrue. This offseason was historic in terms of big name talent moving from team to team. We had the cap space. We chose not to get involved (I’m not arguing why Poles chose this path, simply noting it was a choice he made). Adding a Tyreke Hill or Davante Adam’s or AJ Brown would have 100% fixed the WR position. Mooney would be a great #2. Jones #3. We’d be absolutely stacked.

Again, not a discussion about whether or not you think those moves were moves we should have made or not - simply noting that there was ample opportunity to fix WR this offseason if Poles wanted to.

The complaint people keep making isnt about the low end talent we’ve added per se, we have great depth now. It’s that we are weak at the top of the depth chart. Each guy is one step higher than they should be. Mooney should be a 2 not a 1. Pringle should be a 3 not a 2.

I'll concede your point on AJ Brown, to a point — I suspect we didn't have enough available this offseason to provide what the Titans were after, but I'd have made that call if there was any inkling he'd be available.

I will vehemently disagree on Adams and Hill — not on the grounds that they're not valuable, which would be absurd, but on the grounds that we had any shot at either, in an offseason where players had tremendous control over where they went.

[Bearfacts]

And I never said or even implied these guys were signed to "fix" anything.

But you did say

So here's a question for those who feel our WR core is really bad.

Are these guys better than say a Javon Wims? A Riley Ridley? An Anthony Miller. A Ted Ginn Jr? So we've had worse.

which is baffling and confusing. "for those who feel our WR core is really bad"? I would have thought that was "everyone", but apparently you don't agree that it's bad. Since they basically dumped everyone who got snaps last year, except for Mooney, who have they added that's elevating this group up to average? Jones will be fine in his limited role of "guy who gets forcefed the ball in short dumps, because he can't get open". After that, Pringle, ESB, Moore, Pettis, Sharpe? I truly don't know who you think is making this group ok.
Since the post is about Pettis and Sharpe being better than Wims and Ginn, it seems like those guys making the team (or not even being able to make the team) is supposed to be evidence of the WR group being not bad.

They're here to compete for the #3-#6 WR spots. Mooney and Pringle are #1 and #2 for now. Gimme your best guess for WR #3-#6.

Mooney, Pringle, Jones will make the team and probably be all top 4 in opportunity
ESB probably makes the squad
After that, it's a complete free-for-all for the remaining spots, with 6 guys having legit shots at 2 slots. Maybe Sharpe with a slight edge.

That may provide some minor intrigue for fans. But it also ought to tell you something. Much like the old adage "If you think you have 2 QBs, you probably don't have any", "If you've got a half dozen guys with a shot at a roster spot, it's because you've gone all the way down the talent ladder to the point where everyone is nearly equal".

First Quote; The WR deal is not a one year "fix". So if my meaning was unclear this is what I meant.

Your Response; Every vet WR we've brought in has more experience and more to offer by way of that experience than guys like Ridley, Wims, and even a failed pick like Miller and an aging an no longer an impact guy Ginn. Are they a top ten WR core? No. Are they an upgrade to what we've been dealing with? IMHO Yes. Is it likely that Pringle will outperform the 2021 version of ARob? That shouldn't be hard to do and I believe many fans are selling him short based on his career at KC where he was in a rotation with 2 others. I'm not sure what you find baffling or confusing though. You're making your own assumptions just as I'm making mine.


No one, least of all me, is calling this bunch a finished product but with limited resources Poles has been pretty dogged in his pursuit to upgrade what he was left with. ARob is gone. It took Byrd, Goodwin, and Grant combined to produce as much as I believe Pringle alone can produce himself. The others will compete for roster spots along with EQ and Jones is a wild card hybrid player whose role we still can't determine. It's not a great look on paper but the game isn't played on paper either.

Here's the gist of my thinking.

If Justin Fields is gonna ascend to become a top five or ten QB he will find ways to get the ball to his receivers. Top NFL QB have lost some of their favorite targets only to accomplish much the same with an entirely new set of WR and Fields will need to learn how to do this as well if he expects to become one of the best just as Rodgers will have to adjust to life with Adams and Wilson will have to adapt to a new set of WR in Denver and Brady has for two decades with a revolving cast of WR. Fields has to have game too.

Over the course of this offseason Poles has worked to rebuild one of the worst secondaries in the NFL via the draft. He's taken a different approach with his OL and WR by bringing in vet talent to mix in with rookies hoping to find a few players who may be worth extending provided they ascend in this offense and either become core starters or upgraded depth. Next offseason he'll know better who must be replaced and at what positions and he'll have both the draft picks and cap room to do it with.

This IS the plan. It's the same plan he told all of us to expect. So I'm the one whose still confused by those who don't get it because either they never listened to what he told us, the refuse to see it actually happening as predicted, or they're so hung up on the now they believe it's all bull shit and put out a "here we go again" attitude that we suck and we'll always suck. Have a little faith will ya'? It's gonna take more than one offseason to re-tool this team based on what Poles inherited and it's not as bad as it looks.

[Moriarty]

But you did say



which is baffling and confusing. "for those who feel our WR core is really bad"? I would have thought that was "everyone", but apparently you don't agree that it's bad. Since they basically dumped everyone who got snaps last year, except for Mooney, who have they added that's elevating this group up to average? Jones will be fine in his limited role of "guy who gets forcefed the ball in short dumps, because he can't get open". After that, Pringle, ESB, Moore, Pettis, Sharpe? I truly don't know who you think is making this group ok.
Since the post is about Pettis and Sharpe being better than Wims and Ginn, it seems like those guys making the team (or not even being able to make the team) is supposed to be evidence of the WR group being not bad.



Mooney, Pringle, Jones will make the team and probably be all top 4 in opportunity
ESB probably makes the squad
After that, it's a complete free-for-all for the remaining spots, with 6 guys having legit shots at 2 slots. Maybe Sharpe with a slight edge.

That may provide some minor intrigue for fans. But it also ought to tell you something. Much like the old adage "If you think you have 2 QBs, you probably don't have any", "If you've got a half dozen guys with a shot at a roster spot, it's because you've gone all the way down the talent ladder to the point where everyone is nearly equal".

First Quote; The WR deal is not a one year "fix". So if my meaning was unclear this is what I meant.

Your Response; Every vet WR we've brought in has more experience and more to offer by way of that experience than guys like Ridley, Wims, and even a failed pick like Miller and an aging an no longer an impact guy Ginn. Are they a top ten WR core? No. Are they an upgrade to what we've been dealing with? IMHO Yes. Is it likely that Pringle will outperform the 2021 version of ARob? That shouldn't be hard to do and I believe many fans are selling him short based on his career at KC where he was in a rotation with 2 others. I'm not sure what you find baffling or confusing though. You're making your own assumptions just as I'm making mine.


No one, least of all me, is calling this bunch a finished product but with limited resources Poles has been pretty dogged in his pursuit to upgrade what he was left with. ARob is gone. It took Byrd, Goodwin, and Grant combined to produce as much as I believe Pringle alone can produce himself. The others will compete for roster spots along with EQ and Jones is a wild card hybrid player whose role we still can't determine. It's not a great look on paper but the game isn't played on paper either.

Here's the gist of my thinking.

If Justin Fields is gonna ascend to become a top five or ten QB he will find ways to get the ball to his receivers. Top NFL QB have lost some of their favorite targets only to accomplish much the same with an entirely new set of WR and Fields will need to learn how to do this as well if he expects to become one of the best just as Rodgers will have to adjust to life with Adams and Wilson will have to adapt to a new set of WR in Denver and Brady has for two decades with a revolving cast of WR. Fields has to have game too.

Over the course of this offseason Poles has worked to rebuild one of the worst secondaries in the NFL via the draft. He's taken a different approach with his OL and WR by bringing in vet talent to mix in with rookies hoping to find a few players who may be worth extending provided they ascend in this offense and either become core starters or upgraded depth. Next offseason he'll know better who must be replaced and at what positions and he'll have both the draft picks and cap room to do it with.

This IS the plan. It's the same plan he told all of us to expect. So I'm the one whose still confused by those who don't get it because either they never listened to what he told us, the refuse to see it actually happening as predicted, or they're so hung up on the now they believe it's all bull shit and put out a "here we go again" attitude that we suck and we'll always suck. Have a little faith will ya'? It's gonna take more than one offseason to re-tool this team based on what Poles inherited and it's not as bad as it looks.

Since you're new here, maybe some background will be helpful.


I don't mind that they are rebuilding
I don't mind that they are going to suck this year
I don't think the overall process is wrong
Not only that, but I think I can fairly claim to be THE most vociferous and earliest proponent of heavy rebuild on the entire board.

So that said,
I am not especially bothered at all by the WR group being crappy this year. I don't think flooding WR with more resource would have been smart.

You spent a ton of words defending Overall General Plan, which is not something I'm attacking anywhere in this thread - or even anywhere, ever.

What I do object to is inaccurate mischaracterization of any aspect of the team. And 90% of the time it comes when people let their Homer biases overwhelm their senses and they treat something with overgenerosity that they would never do if it was another team and there was no internal bias in play.

My point in this thread is very short and simple:

In comparison to the rest of the league, the WR group this year is pretty crappy. I find it very weird that you would pose a question to 'those who feel our WR core is really bad', as if a) those people ought to be on the defensive, b) their opinion is unreasonable, c) something (I still don't know what) about Pettis and Sharpe contradicts that point of view.

[Bearfacts]

First Quote; The WR deal is not a one year "fix". So if my meaning was unclear this is what I meant.

Your Response; Every vet WR we've brought in has more experience and more to offer by way of that experience than guys like Ridley, Wims, and even a failed pick like Miller and an aging an no longer an impact guy Ginn. Are they a top ten WR core? No. Are they an upgrade to what we've been dealing with? IMHO Yes. Is it likely that Pringle will outperform the 2021 version of ARob? That shouldn't be hard to do and I believe many fans are selling him short based on his career at KC where he was in a rotation with 2 others. I'm not sure what you find baffling or confusing though. You're making your own assumptions just as I'm making mine.


No one, least of all me, is calling this bunch a finished product but with limited resources Poles has been pretty dogged in his pursuit to upgrade what he was left with. ARob is gone. It took Byrd, Goodwin, and Grant combined to produce as much as I believe Pringle alone can produce himself. The others will compete for roster spots along with EQ and Jones is a wild card hybrid player whose role we still can't determine. It's not a great look on paper but the game isn't played on paper either.

Here's the gist of my thinking.

If Justin Fields is gonna ascend to become a top five or ten QB he will find ways to get the ball to his receivers. Top NFL QB have lost some of their favorite targets only to accomplish much the same with an entirely new set of WR and Fields will need to learn how to do this as well if he expects to become one of the best just as Rodgers will have to adjust to life with Adams and Wilson will have to adapt to a new set of WR in Denver and Brady has for two decades with a revolving cast of WR. Fields has to have game too.

Over the course of this offseason Poles has worked to rebuild one of the worst secondaries in the NFL via the draft. He's taken a different approach with his OL and WR by bringing in vet talent to mix in with rookies hoping to find a few players who may be worth extending provided they ascend in this offense and either become core starters or upgraded depth. Next offseason he'll know better who must be replaced and at what positions and he'll have both the draft picks and cap room to do it with.

This IS the plan. It's the same plan he told all of us to expect. So I'm the one whose still confused by those who don't get it because either they never listened to what he told us, the refuse to see it actually happening as predicted, or they're so hung up on the now they believe it's all bull shit and put out a "here we go again" attitude that we suck and we'll always suck. Have a little faith will ya'? It's gonna take more than one offseason to re-tool this team based on what Poles inherited and it's not as bad as it looks.

Since you're new here, maybe some background will be helpful.


I don't mind that they are rebuilding
I don't mind that they are going to suck this year
I don't think the overall process is wrong
Not only that, but I think I can fairly claim to be THE most vociferous and earliest proponent of heavy rebuild on the entire board.

So that said,
I am not especially bothered at all by the WR group being crappy this year. I don't think flooding WR with more resource would have been smart.

You spent a ton of words defending Overall General Plan, which is not something I'm attacking anywhere in this thread - or even anywhere, ever.

What I do object to is inaccurate mischaracterization of any aspect of the team. And 90% of the time it comes when people let their Homer biases overwhelm their senses and they treat something with overgenerosity that they would never do if it was another team and there was no internal bias in play.

My point in this thread is very short and simple:

In comparison to the rest of the league, the WR group this year is pretty crappy. I find it very weird that you would pose a question to 'those who feel our WR core is really bad', as if a) those people ought to be on the defensive, b) their opinion is unreasonable, c) something (I still don't know what) about Pettis and Sharpe contradicts that point of view.

First of all I'm not all that new here. I've just chosen to become more active lately.

Second I believe you'll learn over time that I'm not and never have been a "homer" nor are most of us who've been following this team since Halas was still HC. Most of this forum wasn't even born when I first began to follow the Bears. I get it as well as anyone.

And last all of this preseason stuff isn't all that useful in predicting how any one player might perform. After awhile it's all just a stew of personal opinions based on personal prejudice and past experiences. I can only take so much of that kind of conjecture before I dial it all out.

I am by nature an observer. Stats and metrics do enter the picture but seeing is a better way for me to evaluate and form my own opinions. I've given those opinions now and until I see something that will cause me to change them they are what they are and they'll remain what they are. You're entitled to yours and I'm over debating any of them with you.

I'm looking at the whole as opposed to analyzing parts that can't be accurately predicted yet. Maybe in October we'll all know more.

[dplank]

No one, least of all me, is calling this bunch a finished product but with limited resources Poles has been pretty dogged in his pursuit to upgrade what he was left with.

I think this is where some of us, myself at least, take minor issue with the take. I don't believe he has been "dogged in his pursuit to upgrade" either the WR group or the OL group. Yes, he had a lot of position groups that needed help and yes he had fairly limited resources to address those needs. I don't expect him to have been able to upgrade everything this offseason. Our roster was very weak at OL, WR, and DB - that's not to ignore needs elsewhere but those were the main position groups that were in great need of help. That's just too much to solve in one off season.

Poles has free agency and the draft as his tools to address our needs. Poles used free agency to spread out a bunch of low cost players all over the roster, nothing really stands out there as "dogged pursuit" more just plugging holes that were plentiful. We had 2 WR's on the roster, he literally HAD to sign a bunch of them to field a team. The only player he stepped up to spend on was a DL (which as we know then didn't actually get signed). He could have signed more at WR, particularly after not spending that OGun money - guys like Chark at 10M or Jarvis Landry at 3M - those guys would be immediate contributors - but he chose not to. I think he should have signed Chark personally, and why weren't we in on Landry at 3M?

His other tool he has, the draft, he chose to address our secondary instead of our WR or OL, with our most valuable draft picks. That was a choice. I'm not arguing the right or wrong of that choice, BPA value, and all that jazz - I'm just noting that he chose to go secondary. So again "dogged pursuit" seems like a pretty big overstatement. You could say he doggedly pursued fixing our secondary, I'd agree with that. Young, Cruikshank, plus our top two draft selections - yea, he went after that position group. But WR? No. OL? No. Both are still near bottom of the NFL in terms of talent - we could add 50 Tajae Sharpe's and we'd still be at the bottom - we have plenty of WR6's.

Like Moriarty, I fully understand we are in rebuild mode and I'm fine with it - I wanted to start our rebuild last year and wanted Pace/Nagy gone to get that going, so no issues there. I don't understand why critiquing some of his rebuild priorities is met with such hostility though. And so the one comment out of all this that grates on me is when people say that "Poles is following his plan and why are we surprised by all this? Did you not pay attention?" Well, I'm surprised that he chose secondary as his initial attack point when Fields is still a young developing player - and our most important player by miles. Remember, Poles ALSO said that we were going to build our team around Fields. But that part about building around Fields keeps getting ignored when people make that comment about if we were paying attention to what Poles said - I'd ask you the same, were YOU paying attention when he said he was going to build around Fields? Assuming you were, then I'd ask - If you were to add players to a roster to support your QB, which positions would those players play? The answer, of course, is WR and OL. Protect your QB and provide him with weapons to throw to. Not hard. And guess what, WR and OL were just as needed position groups as our secondary was - so our rebuild need lined up with his stated goal of building around Fields. He just didn't actually do it - he attacked the one other need group that doesn't support QB directly. DB, he used his top draft capital and signed guys. OL/WR, he just threw a bunch of slop at it, and signed one low tier FA for each (Patrick, Pringle). Maybe some depth emerges out of it all, but we pushed off top tier talent acquisition via FA or Draft until next offseason. I'd have preferred we push fixing secondary to next offseason instead, so that we'd get a better evaluation of Fields and lessen his chance of getting murdered on the football field.

It's OK to point this all out, and it doesn't mean we hate Poles, don't want to do a rebuild, are impatient or hyper, or any of that nonsense. It just means we have some critiques about how he's executing his rebuild - in what order, etc.

[IE]

I sort of like Sharpe. I think I want him to make the team because I believe he's probably better for this team than Dazz (damn I love that name tho) who IMO doesn't really have a role now other than the smaller slower Vay Jones backup. Sharpe can definitely backup Pringle at the X in the event that ESB struggles to for whatever reason. I consider that a good signing and almost consider him a lock, barring a surprise like that new ND kid turning into Hunter Renfrow or Bobby Wade or something.

Pettis - I mean wow if he could bring in even half of the promise he flashed in college that would be a heck of a #4 or #5 WR. IMO that was a good flyer for Poles to take to add more quality depth. If he doesn't show it they can just move on. I don't see a problem with 5-6 reasonably legitimate guys vying for 2 spots on the roster. It is way better than anything else recently at least IMO it is.

Personally I think nearly everyone is underestimating Byron Pringle. I'm not a Poles Stan on him - I've been a fan for the last couple of years, because as I watched my favorite player as much as possible Pringle stood out to me as a REALLY good football player. There are multiple narratives that people can use to diminish him (e.g. his age, his WR# on his previous team, his recent stupid racist arrest)... but I think that is a huge mistake. He is a REALLY good football player, and popped off the screen even on that team full of stars. Watch his film - he blocks and plays through the whistle and outhustles everyone. Coming from someone who was an Anthony Miller apologist for too long, I can say that Pringle is the "anti-Miller" - he's a team player and a QB's best friend in the way he never stops playing and finds spots to get open. To me knowing he was UFA I wanted the Bears to sign him as a top priority even before Poles was hired. Not because I think he's Davante Adams or a #1 WR - but because for the money he was going to cost he was IMO one of the absolute best values out there... which was important because Poles HAD to build an entirely new depth chart at WR. I don't think for a second that Pringle is not worthy of the #2 WR role and as a matter of fact within the last year he actually outplayed Hardman and became the QB's second favorite WR option on THAT team - and he EARNED it all the way up from UDFA. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he led the Bears in yards receptions and TDs.

[Rusty Trombagent]

Check out Pettis' TD ratio based on his number of receptions. Only 52 receptions but 9 are TDs. That's one in every 5.8 catches.

Choosing to ignore this because i'm too mad about horsted being cut.

[thunderspirit]

I sort of like Sharpe. I think I want him to make the team because I believe he's probably better for this team than Dazz (damn I love that name tho) who IMO doesn't really have a role now other than the smaller slower Vay Jones backup. Sharpe can definitely backup Pringle at the X in the event that ESB struggles to for whatever reason. I consider that a good signing and almost consider him a lock, barring a surprise like that new ND kid turning into Hunter Renfrow or Bobby Wade or something.

Pettis - I mean wow if he could bring in even half of the promise he flashed in college that would be a heck of a #4 or #5 WR. IMO that was a good flyer for Poles to take to add more quality depth. If he doesn't show it they can just move on. I don't see a problem with 5-6 reasonably legitimate guys vying for 2 spots on the roster. It is way better than anything else recently at least IMO it is.

Personally I think nearly everyone is underestimating Byron Pringle. I'm not a Poles Stan on him - I've been a fan for the last couple of years, because as I watched my favorite player as much as possible Pringle stood out to me as a REALLY good football player. There are multiple narratives that people can use to diminish him (e.g. his age, his WR# on his previous team, his recent stupid racist arrest)... but I think that is a huge mistake. He is a REALLY good football player, and popped off the screen even on that team full of stars. Watch his film - he blocks and plays through the whistle and outhustles everyone. Coming from someone who was an Anthony Miller apologist for too long, I can say that Pringle is the "anti-Miller" - he's a team player and a QB's best friend in the way he never stops playing and finds spots to get open. To me knowing he was UFA I wanted the Bears to sign him as a top priority even before Poles was hired. Not because I think he's Davante Adams or a #1 WR - but because for the money he was going to cost he was IMO one of the absolute best values out there... which was important because Poles HAD to build an entirely new depth chart at WR. I don't think for a second that Pringle is not worthy of the #2 WR role and as a matter of fact within the last year he actually outplayed Hardman and became the QB's second favorite WR option on THAT team - and he EARNED it all the way up from UDFA. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he led the Bears in yards receptions and TDs.

I like Sharpe as well. (I might have preferred Keelan Cole, but I'm sure his price remains higher than Sharpe's; plus Cole is already 29, so I see why Poles went after Sharpe instead.)

If Pettis lived up to 33% of his promise coming out, I'd be thrilled. I am not optimistic, but I certainly agree that Pettis was a flyer worth taking.

I agree with you that Pringle is being underestimated. He's been a consistent presence on the Chiefs' special teams and more than doubled his snaps on offense. I think he left KC for opportunity, since there was no indication Tyreek Hill was going anywhere at the start of free agency.

I don't have any real issue with people who say the Bears receiving corps is unproven, because it absolutely is built largely on projection. I just find it unreasonable to dismiss them completely because these guys haven't done it before. YMMV.

[Bearfacts]

No one, least of all me, is calling this bunch a finished product but with limited resources Poles has been pretty dogged in his pursuit to upgrade what he was left with.

I think this is where some of us, myself at least, take minor issue with the take. I don't believe he has been "dogged in his pursuit to upgrade" either the WR group or the OL group. Yes, he had a lot of position groups that needed help and yes he had fairly limited resources to address those needs. I don't expect him to have been able to upgrade everything this offseason. Our roster was very weak at OL, WR, and DB - that's not to ignore needs elsewhere but those were the main position groups that were in great need of help. That's just too much to solve in one off season.

Poles has free agency and the draft as his tools to address our needs. Poles used free agency to spread out a bunch of low cost players all over the roster, nothing really stands out there as "dogged pursuit" more just plugging holes that were plentiful. We had 2 WR's on the roster, he literally HAD to sign a bunch of them to field a team. The only player he stepped up to spend on was a DL (which as we know then didn't actually get signed). He could have signed more at WR, particularly after not spending that OGun money - guys like Chark at 10M or Jarvis Landry at 3M - those guys would be immediate contributors - but he chose not to. I think he should have signed Chark personally, and why weren't we in on Landry at 3M?

His other tool he has, the draft, he chose to address our secondary instead of our WR or OL, with our most valuable draft picks. That was a choice. I'm not arguing the right or wrong of that choice, BPA value, and all that jazz - I'm just noting that he chose to go secondary. So again "dogged pursuit" seems like a pretty big overstatement. You could say he doggedly pursued fixing our secondary, I'd agree with that. Young, Cruikshank, plus our top two draft selections - yea, he went after that position group. But WR? No. OL? No. Both are still near bottom of the NFL in terms of talent - we could add 50 Tajae Sharpe's and we'd still be at the bottom - we have plenty of WR6's.

Like Moriarty, I fully understand we are in rebuild mode and I'm fine with it - I wanted to start our rebuild last year and wanted Pace/Nagy gone to get that going, so no issues there. I don't understand why critiquing some of his rebuild priorities is met with such hostility though. And so the one comment out of all this that grates on me is when people say that "Poles is following his plan and why are we surprised by all this? Did you not pay attention?" Well, I'm surprised that he chose secondary as his initial attack point when Fields is still a young developing player - and our most important player by miles. Remember, Poles ALSO said that we were going to build our team around Fields. But that part about building around Fields keeps getting ignored when people make that comment about if we were paying attention to what Poles said - I'd ask you the same, were YOU paying attention when he said he was going to build around Fields? Assuming you were, then I'd ask - If you were to add players to a roster to support your QB, which positions would those players play? The answer, of course, is WR and OL. Protect your QB and provide him with weapons to throw to. Not hard. And guess what, WR and OL were just as needed position groups as our secondary was - so our rebuild need lined up with his stated goal of building around Fields. He just didn't actually do it - he attacked the one other need group that doesn't support QB directly. DB, he used his top draft capital and signed guys. OL/WR, he just threw a bunch of slop at it, and signed one low tier FA for each (Patrick, Pringle). Maybe some depth emerges out of it all, but we pushed off top tier talent acquisition via FA or Draft until next offseason. I'd have preferred we push fixing secondary to next offseason instead, so that we'd get a better evaluation of Fields and lessen his chance of getting murdered on the football field.

It's OK to point this all out, and it doesn't mean we hate Poles, don't want to do a rebuild, are impatient or hyper, or any of that nonsense. It just means we have some critiques about how he's executing his rebuild - in what order, etc.

Jeezus plank. Are we down to debating semantics or the mere use of a word now when it's all just perceptions?

The actual term I used was "pretty dogged". If someone else doesn't believe that term fits they can just change it to one they prefer.

How about we say he's been consistently pursuing ways to upgrade his roster. Or he's been making numerous attempts to upgrade key positions. Is that better? Some have failed to work out like Ogunjobi and Bates. But we can clearly see that he's not standing pat without making any effort at all to upgrade every unit he can in some way. The way the draft worked out two top DB fell to him so he let the market dictate his decision and actually did accomplish a major upgrade of the secondary with Gordon, Brisker, and Young.

As for WR everyone had a favorite prior to FA. Some were touting Kirk. Oh well he went for way more than anyone believed he was worth so then it becomes why not Chark? Only $10 mil. Then it defaults to why not Landry? Only $3 mil. What's it gonna take for people to finally understand that those guys were never in his plans and neither were too costly OL. Not when he knows he'll be in a far better position to shop FA next year and quite possibly find better choices to spend money on. THAT is the plan.

How much longer is this constant barrage of pearl clutching and whining about missed opportunities gonna continue vs simply looking at what is and will be and digging deeper into those possibilities. We gotta stop bemoaning what didn't happen or what Poles didn't do and evaluate what he did do in a more favorable light. And that's not being a homer. It's simply the fucking reality of it all. The guy hasn't been on the job for even 6 months and already he's being figuratively tarred and feathered for his efforts.

Why is when someone tells you what they plan to do then does it is everyone so disappointed with the results especially when we haven't seen any results yet? How many millions of dollars did Pace spend over 7 years patching up some position or another here or there only to fail in all of his attempts to build a consistent winner? Most bitched about that but as usual they go right back to wanting to see Poles do those same things all over again. It never got done correctly and that is what Poles is trying to fix.

Here's my suggestion. If anyone here has better ideas why weren't they interviewed for the Bears GM role? Hell, you can't even get a consensus from a majority on specifically what should have been done. Who should we have signed? For how long? For how much? How much $$$ should be guaranteed. How should the deal be structured? What about injury issues? What about performance bonuses? Will the guy fit our schemes? Maybe but what exactly are our schemes? Is that still a fluid deal?

It's easy to sit back and be critics but then you all are doing for free what media guys actually get paid for and if I had to deal with all of the realities of being an NFL GM you'd have to pay me too......a lot. Even reading through dozens of media articles we find a variety of opinions ranging from Velus Jones was our best pick to boy did Poles ever fuck up and leave his QB out in the cold. Maybe he's not sold on him and wants to draft another QB. No he doesn't. He loves the guy. He's been saying so all the time.

Maybe what y'all should do is chip in $4-$5 bil and buy the Bears from the McCaskey's. Then you can have GM by committee or choose several members to serve as GM on a rotating basis. Something like Cubs did years ago with their managers. I'd love to be a fly on the wall during some of those personnel meetings. Let's face it brother. Today we actually know very little about what this team will actually look like come Sept. and even less about the specifics of Poles longer term plans. Actually we know jack.

So why not sit back, crack open a beer or fire up a joint, and let it all unfold. We won 6 games last year with a rookie QB and one of the lesser HC we've had in this century. If this team isn't at least that good then start in on Poles and "Flus" again in 2023. Answer me this. How would any of us feel if hired to fix a mess created by our predecessor people were constantly dropping by asking "Did ya' get it fixed yet"? We'd all be annoyed as hell and tell them to move on. Well that's what I'm doing. I'm moving on at least for now.

[dplank]

By this logic we should have never questioned Ryan Pace or Matt Nagy either. The only overreacting that's going on here is in the reaction you just posted man - all I was doing was taking a very mild jab at some of the stuff Poles has done, specifically the order in which he's chosen to attack our roster weaknesses. That's a super mild criticism. You really made my point for me here - any criticism is met with a massive overreaction.

We're fans, this is a fan board, we are going to question the things that this franchise does - that's table stakes dude. If you're not OK with that, I'd suggest a return to lurker status.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Yeah...meh on both. Pettis' best highlights were against guys that are looking for marketing or sales jobs right now. Sharpe looks like a camp body at best.

[Bearfacts]

By this logic we should have never questioned Ryan Pace or Matt Nagy either. The only overreacting that's going on here is in the reaction you just posted man - all I was doing was taking a very mild jab at some of the stuff Poles has done, specifically the order in which he's chosen to attack our roster weaknesses. That's a super mild criticism. You really made my point for me here - any criticism is met with a massive overreaction.

We're fans, this is a fan board, we are going to question the things that this franchise does - that's table stakes dude. If you're not OK with that, I'd suggest a return to lurker status.

Over reacting has now come down to saying I'm just gonna sit back and watch then evaluate . With age comes much patience and this bunch hasn't even played one single down of football yet this year.

But are the rest of you deceased and I'm now in Forum Hell? Question all ya' like if it suits you. Won't mean a damn thing though.

None of us own the Bears.

[Bearfacts]

FWIW here are some comments from both QB Trevor Siemian and WR Coach Tyke Tolbert on the Bears WR from OTA.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles ... oc=right_h

Bears backup quarterback Trevor Siemian knew about the team's situation at wide receiver going into minicamp and OTAs.

It seems everyone in the country thinks the Bears are short on receiving help. Siemian sees something else in OTAs, however.

"Guys can separate," Siemian said. "I know it's OTAs but you see guys and they are kind of twitched up and it's fun to see. Young guys that are hungry to learn and can catch the ball. That's what you look for.

"We will see in camp and preseason when we have to work against bump and there's that physical component of the game that you can't wait to get to, but yeah, I'm excited about them."

It's going to be on those receivers to make plays and make statements for themselves. Siemian doesn't see the offensive system scheming players into the open the way former coach Matt Nagy seemed to think his offense could.

"No I think, I mean it's a player's league," Siemian said. "You have to have the players execute and that's our job. I think there's certain things that give players ... put them in spots, advantageous spots to get open and make plays. That's just football. That's offense and defense."

Tolbert thinks no one should sleep on Pettis, the former 49ers receiver who was with him while he was an assistant with the New York Giants.

"So I know his skillset," Tolbert said. "It's just a matter for everybody else to see what I saw and it's a guy who can play inside and outside, a smart guy who can come in and learn the offense really quickly and bring some veteran presence.

"He has some vet savviness to him when he's running his routes. Every time he had the opportunity to make a play with us with the Giants, he did. He didn't play as much as a lot of guys did."

[dplank]

Neutral observer. Expert. Not a hot takes media head. Ross Tucker is one of the good ones. Posted this 25 minutes ago - this is why I’ve questioned Poles order of attack and focusing on DBs first ahead of OL or WR.

[IE]

By this logic we should have never questioned Ryan Pace or Matt Nagy either. The only overreacting that's going on here is in the reaction you just posted man - all I was doing was taking a very mild jab at some of the stuff Poles has done, specifically the order in which he's chosen to attack our roster weaknesses. That's a super mild criticism. You really made my point for me here - any criticism is met with a massive overreaction.

We're fans, this is a fan board, we are going to question the things that this franchise does - that's table stakes dude. If you're not OK with that, I'd suggest a return to lurker status.

For sure people agree and disagree. I think what you're hearing is some of your takes on Poles' moves have not been perceived as being mild jabs. A few of them, around the Oline and stud WR, have come pretty close to what I'd perceive as "conclusive" sounding... as if the honeymoon was already over for you. Like above here a few times you've challenged others to not give him too much rope like Nagy and Pace. So it looks more like you've made up your mind on the guy. This is how it has seemed to me - and while I know you were joking about the "Poles Stans" thing, that sort of dovetailed with the previous point to make it look like you are indeed "already out" on Poles.

To me it is a question of timing. It is far too soon to be going after Poles on individual moves. He clearly has a plan and is executing it - and IMO that needs to be respected until it either pans out or doesn't (I believe it will). It *could* take longer than a year or two to tell. I think he deserves mostly suspended judgement for at least 2 drafts and 2 seasons. In today's NFL it only takes a year or two to retool if you're good. This is way different timing than holding on to support Nagy in his 3rd and 4th years. Still being in Nagy's camp last year or even the year before was clearly too long. Pace was more complicated because he did make some moves that people liked (including drafting JF1 and the bookend OTs last year and a few other nice recent drafts)... it was mostly his support of Nagy at the end of '20 and some expensive desperation moves to try to make Nagy successful that did him in at the end, I think. If he fired Nagy and set about rebuilding last year, he might still have a job in Chicago. He could have the same war chest that Poles is creating if he didn't have to support Nagy.

What I don't get is, if you have such strong feelings about things Poles is doing as being bad moves, why not just say you've already made up your mind about him? You're experienced and knowledgeable, and you may be right. You're on him enough to have established how you feel one way or the other - in the future you'll be right about his moves, or wrong (if he's successful).

Me personally I'll rationalize moves and step back more and accept the big picture until I see clear evidence that I need to draw my own conclusions. That would include some "softer" things that have more to do with culture than personnel moves - things like do the Bears get stupid penalties and how disciplined are they (that was horrible under Nagy). It would be things like does the new offensive system look like a modern NFL 30 points a game model, and are they building around JF1 to maximize his performance (including Oline/protections that optimize what they can do well vs not while they grow as a unit). It would be better use of and evaluation of players IN games and playing the guys that earn it most vs clear favorites or the lucky sperm club. It would be continued youth movement on D built around a superstar at all 3 levels (that's a work in progress especially on the DL but the new DBs are exciting). I already like what they're doing to make the team more athletic, and believe they've replaced paper speed (e.g. the ex-sprinter types) with real game speed.

[IE]

Neutral observer. Expert. Not a hot takes media head. Ross Tucker is one of the good ones. Posted this 25 minutes ago - this is why I’ve questioned Poles order of attack and focusing on DBs first ahead of OL or WR.

It is a popular narrative and he's just lazily piling on. He doesn't offer any actual evidence that his is happening or has happened in this way in the past.

Bear fans:

- Monty's a top 10 RB... he could get 2000 yards this year!
- Mooney is under-rated & going to break out... he could get 12 yards and 10 TDs this year!
- Tevin Jenkins is an epic mauler and first round talent - what a steal!
- Kmet is poised to break out!
- Bears need a Deebo type! (got on in the draft)
- Bears need a new Center! (Poles gets 2)
- Bears need to do something on the Oline! (signed several FA, have 2 viable OTs from last year and drafted 4 OL this year)

Also Bear fans:

- JF1 has no weapons and no line, and is going to get ruint

[dplank]

Your view is too black and white. I’ve said no less than a half dozen times that Poles gets 3 years in my head for eval - so no, I haven’t decided on him yet. That doesn’t mea. I’m going yo agree with every single thing he does along the way. I may change how I currently feel about some stuff that I view as mistakes if I’m shown otherwise when games start. But nuance doesn’t fly around here. Why is there this Poles GOAT litmus test with some of you? I have liked more of his decisions than I have disliked, but to some I have to like every single thing or “I’m done with him”. It’s just odd.

[IE]

Your view is too black and white. I’ve said no less than a half dozen times that Poles gets 3 years in my head for eval - so no, I haven’t decided on him yet. That doesn’t mea. I’m going yo agree with every single thing he does along the way. I may change how I currently feel about some stuff that I view as mistakes if I’m shown otherwise when games start. But nuance doesn’t fly around here. Why is there this Poles GOAT litmus test with some of you? I have liked more of his decisions than I have disliked, but to some I have to like every single thing or “I’m done with him”. It’s just odd.

You're dramatically under-exaggerating your statements and over-exaggerating others' there. There's no need to be defensive like that. Like you said, we're not always going to agree.

Like I said, it clearly looks like you're strongly positioning to be able to come back later and say I told you so but also avoiding being wrong if he works out. But why bother? I don't agree with or like some of his moves but will definitely say I'm bullish on Poles (and will admit it later). Why not just say you think he's over his head & making too many mistakes that are detrimental to the team? You're effectively doing that posting a Tweet and saying it agrees with you that Poles is ruining JF1. That's not nuance.

[Bearfacts]

And some comments about WR from Brad Biggs Mailbag. Biggsy has an interesting take of Fields development,

ASK THE WRITER BRAD BIGGS
Chicago Bears Q&A: How do the offseason moves help Justin Fields’ future? Who are the top free-agent receivers in 2023?

What is the likelihood the Bears add another veteran WR before camp? — @connor_riecks18

They signed a pair of veteran wide receivers — Tajae Sharpe and Dante Pettis — to one-year contracts May 12. Those names probably don’t move the needle for you because they haven’t had a lot of production the past few seasons. But wide receivers coach Tyke Tolbert spent time with Pettis with the New York Giants, and Janocko was the Minnesota Vikings wide receivers coach in 2020 when Sharpe was with them. If you’re asking about an available veteran such as Odell Beckham Jr., Cole Beasley or Will Fuller, that seems less likely. It looks more and more like the Bears want to see how they can develop existing players on the roster — such as Byron Pringle, Equanimeous St. Brown and third-round pick Velus Jones — behind Darnell Mooney. I doubt they are scouring the market for an upgrade over Pringle. They signed him with the idea he could develop into a No. 2 or No. 3 receiver now that he will have more opportunities being out of Kansas City.

Out of all the wide receiver signings, which do you think will have the biggest impact for Justin Fields’ development? — @whitesquirrl11

Some might view it differently, but I believe a quarterback has a greater influence in helping develop a wide receiver than the other way around. If the quarterback is struggling to read defenses, understand coverages and process after the snap, I don’t care how dynamic the wide receiver is, he won’t have a huge impact week in and week out. The Bears don’t have the quality or depth at wide receiver that they ultimately want to achieve. That’s not news to anyone. They know they need to continue to develop the position, and that can be said about multiple groups on the roster.