Poles' approach to the o-line

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dplank
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Same thinking here. What gets routinely lost in the discussion IMO is that while we also had needs in the secondary, why didn't he try his "4 late round draft pick / hope and pray" method with secondary players instead of OL players? Prioritization. Gordon I get, that looked like clear value at 39 and they likely had his grade much higher than any WR or OL on the board. But that next pick man....I'll grow to like the player, but we passed on 4 legit WR's there and a few legit OL to take a 2nd secondary player - equally rated prospects.

Then you fold in free agency, where he prioritized DL over OL, and you really can't defend Poles "OL prioritization" schtick - it's not true. There were plenty of OL available that we could have gotten at OGun's contract value - he CHOSE DL instead. That's 100% prioritization, there's no way to look at it any other way because it was just cash spending, not draft picks/BPA excuses/etc.

We will have to wait and see if it works out. The one thing he may have is that he's so confident in his plan, and the new scheme, that he believes he can achieve competent OL play with lesser talent. They did it in KC last year, so it's not out of the question. If he pulls it off, all is forgiven.
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Bearfacts
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Moriarty wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:33 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 3:33 am Why are people getting excited that Poles used 4 last day draft picks on OL?

You can only have 5 guys on the OL. You need quality not quantity.

The quantity approach is for special teams.
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 7:51 am
He's dragging the pond looking for buried treasure.

That isn't taking the OL seriously. That's desperation.

Agreed.


Secondary he prioritized
WR he prioritized
OL he didn't really

Given that I think OL was the most urgent of needs, I'm not especially thrilled with that approach
Wow, and I have a completely different take on it.

Poles didn't prioritize the secondary as much he acted upon how the board shaped up in the second round, chose the players who were highest on his board, and got great value. The byproduct of that is in one offseason he repaired a badly leaking secondary.

I don't see drafting a WR who is more of an all purpose pass catching specialist in round 3 as being a priority pick any more than it was a pick for a dynamic offensive and ST weapon. This after he'd passed on less valued talent in round 2 to take his BPA picks.

Poles drafted 4 OL and has brought in two or three more UDFA. That's not exactly ignoring the OL and in at least two instances those he drafted actually ranked a round or so higher than where we drafted the. If we can get two solid OL out of the group IMHO it will have been a successful draft. There are a ton of NFL starter who were drafted on day 3.
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Moriarty
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Bearfacts wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 6:19 pm
Moriarty wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:33 pm





Agreed.


Secondary he prioritized
WR he prioritized
OL he didn't really

Given that I think OL was the most urgent of needs, I'm not especially thrilled with that approach
Wow, and I have a completely different take on it.

Poles didn't prioritize the secondary as much he acted upon how the board shaped up in the second round, chose the players who were highest on his board, and got great value. The byproduct of that is in one offseason he repaired a badly leaking secondary.

I don't see drafting a WR who is more of an all purpose pass catching specialist in round 3 as being a priority pick any more than it was a pick for a dynamic offensive and ST weapon. This after he'd passed on less valued talent in round 2 to take his BPA picks.

Poles drafted 4 OL and has brought in two or three more UDFA. That's not exactly ignoring the OL and in at least two instances those he drafted actually ranked a round or so higher than where we drafted the. If we can get two solid OL out of the group IMHO it will have been a successful draft. There are a ton of NFL starter who were drafted on day 3.
Sure, starters are drafted on Day 3. But the odds are better on Day 2. And even better on Day 1.

As much as I like 3 of the 4 OL picks and think they were good value for their slot - generally speaking, asking for 2 solid OL out of 4 Day 3 is asking a lot.
The last 4 Day 3 offensive lineman the Bears selected were:
Arlington Hambright
Lachavious Simmons
Jordan Morgan
Tayo Fabuluje

a likely 0 for 4, which isn't at all unusual

I think you get a much better perspective if you look at the draft capital value (trade value) on each pick:

510 DB
420 DB
240 WR
23 OL
20 DE
15 OL
9 RB
7 OL
1 OL
1 P
1 DB

For grand totals of:

931 DB

240 WR

46 OL
20 DL
9 RB
1 ST
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Bearfacts
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Moriarty wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 8:00 pm
Bearfacts wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 6:19 pm

Wow, and I have a completely different take on it.

Poles didn't prioritize the secondary as much he acted upon how the board shaped up in the second round, chose the players who were highest on his board, and got great value. The byproduct of that is in one offseason he repaired a badly leaking secondary.

I don't see drafting a WR who is more of an all purpose pass catching specialist in round 3 as being a priority pick any more than it was a pick for a dynamic offensive and ST weapon. This after he'd passed on less valued talent in round 2 to take his BPA picks.

Poles drafted 4 OL and has brought in two or three more UDFA. That's not exactly ignoring the OL and in at least two instances those he drafted actually ranked a round or so higher than where we drafted the. If we can get two solid OL out of the group IMHO it will have been a successful draft. There are a ton of NFL starter who were drafted on day 3.
Sure, starters are drafted on Day 3. But the odds are better on Day 2. And even better on Day 1.

As much as I like 3 of the 4 OL picks and think they were good value for their slot - generally speaking, asking for 2 solid OL out of 4 Day 3 is asking a lot.
The last 4 Day 3 offensive lineman the Bears selected were:
Arlington Hambright
Lachavious Simmons
Jordan Morgan
Tayo Fabuluje
Of course or there would be no reason to rank then at all. But all of these were Pace picks. IMHO we need to judge Poles on his picks.

But we've also played a lot of games with OL who were day 3 picks. Would I have preferred we were able to draft higher? Sure but also IMHO once the first tier players are off the board there is less difference between a 2nd and 3rd tier guy than between a 1st and 2nd tier guy. So when your picks will all be 3rd tier guys it only makes sense to draft more of them hoping to score on one or two.

The opportunity to quickly re-tool the OL with higher level talent just wasn't there. Not in FA and not in the draft. There were only a few FA OL who didn't come with either baggage or injuries. We took a swing at a very good young ascending OG and were matched so that was yet another attempt on Poles part. He hasn't ignored the OL he's just building it back as best he can right now.
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I don't see any applicability with regard to Pace's late OL picks and Poles' picks. To me until last year Pace was more about buying vet players for the Oline and it seemed like Pace was sort of phoning it in there and the draft and just grabbed the next best rated OL (or letting his staff do it) without a lot of specific targeting for scheme... like "OK we got a big ass PS tackle".

With Poles the impression that I get is they very deliberately decided to build through the draft, and accordingly spent a lot more time on it. They targeted specific guys with specific traits for specific things they want to accomplish. Maybe it helped being a Covid year resulting in unusual depth at many positions including OL.

I don't think we can look at past busts and project them onto the new players based on the round. I know there is a temptation to look at round history and make assumptions. But I don't know if there are a lot of examples in the past of what Poles is doing. I DO know that KC has done a lot with lower-round draft picks, and Poles not only has some direct proof it can work but also has that direct experience in making it happen & knowing what worked and what didn't for KC.

I'm pretty excited about the Oline these days. With last year's draft picks, FA and the recent draft, they go 3-4 deep at every position with young prospects with great traits and measurables. I think the biggest battles are going to be:

- Borom and Jones at LT (with Davenport or Coleman as a placeholder if they struggle mightily... which I doubt with Borom who showed he can be at least serviceable & actually played well on the left).
- Thomas and Carter at RG (with Dozier a potential placeholder or Patrick potentially moving over as a placeholder, if they struggle initially).
- I'm assuming Patrick will start, but it is possible they like Kramer more than we know. Or if Patrick needs to play at RG for part of this season, Kramer vs Mustipher could be actually be a real battle at C.
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