This surprises me about Poles' plan

[Bearfacts]

Wow. You and pus have soured far more on EJax than I have.

IMHO blaming the guy for not being a "banger" type at Safety isn't fairly recognizing that he was never drafted to play as a SS to begin with yet for several years he's been playing that as much or more than he did as the wide ranging "centerfielder" he was under Fangio.

Should he still have been a better tackler? Sure, but how much better? Can anyone put some numbers to it? To be honest I think more of us are disturbed by his lack of creating turnovers since that''s what got him his $58 mil extension but I can also accept that he was not exactly put in the best of positions to accomplish that.

So...now you and I are where Madmike and I were, on the other forum? Jackson can't cover, and he can't tackle, but otherwise he's a good safety?

I don't care about the interceptions so much, as that can't be replicated year in and year out by a safety.

I'll break down the final Vikings game, when I have more time. It was unacceptable play from a starter.

Historically, and by that I mean pre-Pagano, he covered the deep zones very well and he had incredible range. In his first two seasons under Fangio he had 21 passes defended, 8 picks, 4 fumble recoveries, and scored 5 tds off those and his fumble recoveries. That's pretty astounding for any NFL Safety. Then it all changed.

Under Pagano and more surprisingly under Desai as well he wasn't used in the same way and his stats fell. Tackling playing forward as a SS or in the slot isn't his long suit and we've known that all along yet that's where or even how he was asked to play in Pagano's defense and more surprisingly by Desai as well.

YOU may not care about interceptions, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, and defensive scoring resulting from them but we do know that Flus cares about that and he's the HC, not you and not me. What we care about is irrelevant. Flus scheme is gonna emphasize turnovers so EJax needs to become a turnover machine again.

Overall 2021 was his worst year but then whatever might have been impacting him pretty much impacted the entire Bears team didn't it? Nagy had pretty much lost his team and EJax was playing for a first year DC and even the defense wasn't as good as it had been in previous years. How much of an impact did that have on the secondary in general?

I don't disagree that he needs to up his game and show signs that he can still be the kind of player he was during his first two years in the NFL or he won't be playing in Chicago with a $13 mil salary and a $17 mil cap hit. Flus has wiped his slate clean so he's gonna be given a chance to show he's improved his game. I'm gonna give him that as well.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Should he still have been a better tackler? Sure, but how much better? Can anyone put some numbers to it?

Here are some numbers that might surprise:

2018 - 11 Missed Tackles (17.7%)
2019 - 11 Missed Tackles (15.5%)
2020 - 13 Missed Tackles (13.7%)
2021 - 8 Missed Tackles (9.5%)

Of course, when it comes to missed tackles a player has to have put himself in position to attempt a tackle in the first place.

To be honest I think more of us are disturbed by his lack of creating turnovers since that''s what got him his $58 mil extension but I can also accept that he was not exactly put in the best of positions to accomplish that.

2017 - 2 INT, 82 return yards, 1 TD / 1 FF, 3 FR, 75 return yards, 1 TD
2018 - 6 INT, 81 return yards, 2 TD / 2 FF, 1 FR, 65 return yards, 1 TD
2019 - 2 INT, 18 return yards, 0 TD / 1 FF, 1 FR, 3 return yards 0 TD
2020 - 0 INT, 0 return yards, 0 TD / 3 FF, 1 FR, 8 return yards, 1 TD
2021 - 0 INT, 0 return yards, 0 TD / 1 FF, 0 FR, 0 return yards, 0 TD

I seem to recall he was unlucky in 2020 with 2 INTs being called back for penalties. Last year the secondary was threadbare; it was basically the worst in the league. It's not easy to make plays when the talent around you is so poor. Jackson enjoyed by far his most productive seasons playing with Fuller (All Pro), Amukamara (solid starter), Callahan (top NB when healthy) and Amos (quality SS). That was a top class secondary.

I doubt we'll see Jackson rebound to his All Pro level this season, but the two 2nd round rookies could prove to be the catalyst necessary for him to rebound to at least some degree.

Losing Adrian Amos as EJax playing partner ended up as subtraction by subtraction.

This was terrible for the Bears. I hated it then and I still hate it now. Jackson and Amos made for a terrific partnership. Amos signed with the Packers for $36m but with only $12m in guarantees and has remained productive for them throughout his contract. (Pace gave Eddie Goldman nearly that per year and more than double that amount in guarantees.) Pace could and should have kept him around. Instead he spent $5.5m on Clinton-Dix and nearly $3m for two years of Gipson. For $6m more per year (average) he could have kept the Jackson/Amos pairing together.

The knock on Amos was his supposed lack of big plays, but he had 3 INTs, 2 FF, 2 FR, a TD and 8 TFL in his final two seasons with the Bears. He also had 9 PD in his last season, a level he's maintained in Green Bay where he's also had 2 INTs every year.

GM's always talk about building through the draft. You don't want to let quality and durable players like Amos leave unless you have another younger player in the pipeline who is ready to replace him. Pace didn't, went the free agency route and never found anyone remotely as good.

[thunderspirit]

It most likely is. Brisker and Elijah Hicks might be better as well.

Don't get me even more delusional. I mean *optimistic*.

I'm a Elijah Hicks fan, and even I think this is way too rosy of a view.

[Bearfacts]

Should he still have been a better tackler? Sure, but how much better? Can anyone put some numbers to it?

Here are some numbers that might surprise:

2018 - 11 Missed Tackles (17.7%)
2019 - 11 Missed Tackles (15.5%)
2020 - 13 Missed Tackles (13.7%)
2021 - 8 Missed Tackles (9.5%)

Of course, when it comes to missed tackles a player has to have put himself in position to attempt a tackle in the first place.

To be honest I think more of us are disturbed by his lack of creating turnovers since that''s what got him his $58 mil extension but I can also accept that he was not exactly put in the best of positions to accomplish that.

2017 - 2 INT, 82 return yards, 1 TD / 1 FF, 3 FR, 75 return yards, 1 TD
2018 - 6 INT, 81 return yards, 2 TD / 2 FF, 1 FR, 65 return yards, 1 TD
2019 - 2 INT, 18 return yards, 0 TD / 1 FF, 1 FR, 3 return yards 0 TD
2020 - 0 INT, 0 return yards, 0 TD / 3 FF, 1 FR, 8 return yards, 1 TD
2021 - 0 INT, 0 return yards, 0 TD / 1 FF, 0 FR, 0 return yards, 0 TD

I seem to recall he was unlucky in 2020 with 2 INTs being called back for penalties. Last year the secondary was threadbare; it was basically the worst in the league. It's not easy to make plays when the talent around you is so poor. Jackson enjoyed by far his most productive seasons playing with Fuller (All Pro), Amukamara (solid starter), Callahan (top NB when healthy) and Amos (quality SS). That was a top class secondary.

I doubt we'll see Jackson rebound to his All Pro level this season, but the two 2nd round rookies could prove to be the catalyst necessary for him to rebound to at least some degree.

Losing Adrian Amos as EJax playing partner ended up as subtraction by subtraction.

This was terrible for the Bears. I hated it then and I still hate it now. Jackson and Amos made for a terrific partnership. Amos signed with the Packers for $36m but with only $12m in guarantees and has remained productive for them throughout his contract. (Pace gave Eddie Goldman nearly that per year and more than double that amount in guarantees.) Pace could and should have kept him around. Instead he spent $5.5m on Clinton-Dix and nearly $3m for two years of Gipson. For $6m more per year (average) he could have kept the Jackson/Amos pairing together.

The knock on Amos was his supposed lack of big plays, but he had 3 INTs, 2 FF, 2 FR, a TD and 8 TFL in his final two seasons with the Bears. He also had 9 PD in his last season, a level he's maintained in Green Bay where he's also had 2 INTs every year.

GM's always talk about building through the draft. You don't want to let quality and durable players like Amos leave unless you have another younger player in the pipeline who is ready to replace him. Pace didn't, went the free agency route and never found anyone remotely as good.

Thanks for the "numbers" brother. So what those show is that EJax has actually improved his missed tackle stats each year since 2018. Why then do some see him as being a poor tackler? If he's left that impression the stats don't confirm it. Why then?

I also recall a couple of interceptions returns being called back but couldn't find out just when so I decided not to bring that up without being able to document it. But that would also belie the opinions that EJax has slipped that badly even though his picks have declined.

I'm one who also feels Pace did him no favor by allowing Amos to leave in FA. IIRC most of the conversation at that time focused on affordability knowing that EJax was also gonna be costly to keep. Signing HC-D was IMHO what brought about moving EJax to playing more and more as a SS and even after we signed Gipson that never changed completely. Neither were true SS in the manner that Amos was and I believe Brisker can be now.

If Poles proves that he can still field successful teams via signing lower cost vet FA to shorter term deals that alone should help us hang onto those draft picks we have who've earned more costly extensions. I also believe having Cliff Stein working on contracts and cap again will help restrain over spending and bad contracts in the future. Maybe sanity has returned to the front office again.

[dplank]

My theory is that some fans saw a couple of his missed tackles that went for big plays, combined with HOW the tackles were missed - loafing / lack of effort - and the thought just stuck. "He must be lazy, got paid doesn't care anymore, etc etc" No one really pays much attention to a regular tackle, but a lazy missed tackle resulting in a TD? Everyone remembers that. EJax was the guy in game 1 who didn't touch the WR down and he got up and scored - it was a lazy play that even George pointed to during his presser when he explained his rationale for firing Pace and Nagy.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Thanks for the "numbers" brother.

As you American's say, 'You're welcome'.

[Heinz D.]

Here are some numbers that might surprise:

2018 - 11 Missed Tackles (17.7%)
2019 - 11 Missed Tackles (15.5%)
2020 - 13 Missed Tackles (13.7%)
2021 - 8 Missed Tackles (9.5%)

Yes, that surprises me, as I sincerely doubt it is even true. Where are these stats coming from?

Of course, when it comes to missed tackles a player has to have put himself in position to attempt a tackle in the first place.

That's the FAR bigger problem, yes.

But also--a "made" tackle can also be when a running back trucks you for a four yard gain.

seem to recall he was unlucky in 2020 with 2 INTs being called back for penalties. Last year the secondary was threadbare; it was basically the worst in the league. It's not easy to make plays when the talent around you is so poor.

Jackson was the $14 million dollar man, baby! He was the cornerstone! The tide that lifted all boats!

Check the Rams game for how well that plan worked out...

he knock on Amos was his supposed lack of big plays, but he had 3 INTs, 2 FF, 2 FR, a TD and 8 TFL in his final two seasons with the Bears. He also had 9 PD in his last season, a level he's maintained in Green Bay where he's also had 2 INTs every year.

GM's always talk about building through the draft. You don't want to let quality and durable players like Amos leave unless you have another younger player in the pipeline who is ready to replace him. Pace didn't, went the free agency route and never found anyone remotely as good.

Letting Amos leave was a monumental mistake by Pace. He's a better safety than Jackson could ever hope to be (apparently).

Unless I break down the Vikings game...done with this topic.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Yes, that surprises me, as I sincerely doubt it is even true. Where are these stats coming from?

Pro Football Reference.

[Grizzled]

Read that the Bears are sitting at $22M in free cap space for '22. I wonder if Poles will be using this on any other FAs or use it towards contract extensions.

[IE]

Yes, that surprises me, as I sincerely doubt it is even true. Where are these stats coming from?

Pro Football Reference.

Just out of curiosity, do you export and then summarize the data from there before posting? You often post nice data, and sometimes pretty thorough. I was wondering how much free time you had! (and I spend too much time here already as a procrastination distraction... lol).

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Plenty of free time at the moment IE; we have a 4 day weekend for Her Majesty's Platinum Jubilee!

[RichH55]

Here are some numbers that might surprise:

2018 - 11 Missed Tackles (17.7%)
2019 - 11 Missed Tackles (15.5%)
2020 - 13 Missed Tackles (13.7%)
2021 - 8 Missed Tackles (9.5%)

Yes, that surprises me, as I sincerely doubt it is even true. Where are these stats coming from?

Of course, when it comes to missed tackles a player has to have put himself in position to attempt a tackle in the first place.

That's the FAR bigger problem, yes.

But also--a "made" tackle can also be when a running back trucks you for a four yard gain.

seem to recall he was unlucky in 2020 with 2 INTs being called back for penalties. Last year the secondary was threadbare; it was basically the worst in the league. It's not easy to make plays when the talent around you is so poor.

Jackson was the $14 million dollar man, baby! He was the cornerstone! The tide that lifted all boats!

Check the Rams game for how well that plan worked out...

he knock on Amos was his supposed lack of big plays, but he had 3 INTs, 2 FF, 2 FR, a TD and 8 TFL in his final two seasons with the Bears. He also had 9 PD in his last season, a level he's maintained in Green Bay where he's also had 2 INTs every year.

GM's always talk about building through the draft. You don't want to let quality and durable players like Amos leave unless you have another younger player in the pipeline who is ready to replace him. Pace didn't, went the free agency route and never found anyone remotely as good.

Letting Amos leave was a monumental mistake by Pace. He's a better safety than Jackson could ever hope to be (apparently).

Unless I break down the Vikings game...done with this topic.

I always enjoy the "Sure its facts but!!!" post

Eat it egghead - I want to post that he's he worst ever facts be darned!!!!

The fan is short for fanatic!

[Heinz D.]

I always enjoy the "Sure its facts but!!!" post

Eat it egghead - I want to post that he's he worst ever facts be darned!!!!

The fan is short for fanatic!

Yeah...not at all sure where you're coming from. Explain?

Where do you think Poles is. on Jackson?

And while we're at it--explain your allegiance to Jackson?

[RichH55]

I always enjoy the "Sure its facts but!!!" post

Eat it egghead - I want to post that he's he worst ever facts be darned!!!!

The fan is short for fanatic!

Yeah...not at all sure where you're coming from. Explain?

Where do you think Poles is. on Jackson?

And while we're at it--explain your allegiance to Jackson?

I think Jackson is a quality Safety. The numbers tend to back this up. Despite some light bulb memories last year.

The crappy second and third corners and bad second safety is what killed our secondary - Not EJax

[Heinz D.]

The crappy second and third corners and bad second safety is what killed our secondary - Not EJax

You thought Gipson was bad? I've always considered him to be a pretty solid player. DHC and Bush, while far from being superstars, aren't bad, either.

[RichH55]

The crappy second and third corners and bad second safety is what killed our secondary - Not EJax

You thought Gipson was bad? I've always considered him to be a pretty solid player. DHC and Bush, while far from being superstars, aren't bad, either.

I did think he was subpar - yes. (*). I think teams targeted him and his side

(*) Granted its hard for me to really "know" who was at fault - be it the CB or the S - but usually Gipson was involved

[wab]

I don't think it's super complicated. Jackson was asked to do things that took away from what made him successful. He's a corner playing safety.

Pagano was asking him to be the Bears version of Ed Reed or LaRon Landry. That's not who Jackson is.

[Moriarty]

My theory is that some fans saw a couple of his missed tackles that went for big plays, combined with HOW the tackles were missed - loafing / lack of effort - and the thought just stuck. "He must be lazy, got paid doesn't care anymore, etc etc" No one really pays much attention to a regular tackle, but a lazy missed tackle resulting in a TD? Everyone remembers that. EJax was the guy in game 1 who didn't touch the WR down and he got up and scored - it was a lazy play that even George pointed to during his presser when he explained his rationale for firing Pace and Nagy.

His on tape quote about tackling, tied in with the results, paints the picture less favorable, too.