Position Review - DB

[Moriarty]

Everyone's been talking about how great the secondary is shaping up for 2022.
They invested their only 2 big draft resources both in DBs.
And it should be better.


However, I've been somewhat concerned about their CBs for a while. And if you read Gordon's draft profiles the 2 consistent knocks on him are: "commitment to football " questions and "may only be a slot corner"

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022 ... ington-nfl

This article was really startling in a few regards.

One is that they value the nickel corner so much. I've heard plenty of people across football say it's nearly on par in importance with the other 2 corners these days. I can buy that, up to a point.
This staff, using this particular system, is actually claiming NB is not just equally important, but actually more important. I'm intrigued, but not sure I'm willing to buy that just yet. What about the 15% of plays where you aren't even using a NB? You can dismiss that as small, but it's not. Football games frequently turn on 2-3 plays. Also, who's the part-time, substitute "QB of the defense" during those 15% - certainly not a CB who's lined up way out by the sideline?

So, they're trying Gordon both outside and inside. But based on what they value, what he wants, and what his capabilities are, it sounds to me like, sooner or later, he's going to wind up mostly inside.

All well and good...except who's going to play the other outside corner position?? Vildor? Graham? That's a flashback straight to 2021, where that position was abused constantly.
So, unless they are vastly better than they were, then we're going to need another high pick to fill the CB2 job in 2023. And then Johnson will be a FA in 2024.

Sigh.





So many holes...

[wab]

Eh, I think the "commitment to football" has more to do with his eclectic personality than anything.

"How in the world could anyone that can ballet dance be 100% into football??"

He's going to spend the season outside, but yeah, I could see him moving to nickel for certain matchups.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I suspect the aim is to have Gordon on the field 100% of the time, but moving between outside and inside depending on match ups and situations. If he's as good as they seem to think they'll want him lining up against the opponent's top receiver much of the time.

I'd be interested to know what's happening with Graham. It was reported that he was quietly impressing at NB during OTAs but he also has potential on the outside. If he pans out then we could see him and Graham switching between CB and NB quite a lot to optimise match ups.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Well, here we are. On the precipice of another potentially disappointing season. But despair not. There is a new regime and a new culture. Eberflus doesn't seem like a gadget guy, and Poles seems to have a plan.

I thought we would start a thread once a week leading up to game one of the regular season to discuss individual positions. Who do we think is going to make it, how many are we keeping, camp reports and preseason news and updates about players. For lack of a better method, we'll just do it alphabetically.

The DB room in my opinion is the most promising of the bunch right now. I think we have some good young talent, and some veterans that have a chance to re-stake their claim. One noticeable difference is the focus on big bodied, tall DB's. Quite a change from the last time the Bears ran a Tampa 2.

Returning - Thomas Graham Jr., DHC, Eddie Jackson, Jaylon Johnson, BoPete Keyes, Duke Shelley, and Kindle Vildor.
New Blood - Jon Alexander, Jaquan Brisker, Dane Cruikshank, Kyler Gordon, Elijah Hicks, Lamar Jackson (no not that one), Jaylon Jones, Jayson Stanley, Greg Stroman Jr., AJ Thomas, and Tavon Young.

There's a lot to like having to pick from this bunch. Gone are the days of the 5'9" 185lbs DB's. Brisker is a thumper and seems to be a perfect fit opposite Jackson. Kyler Gordon opposite Jaylon Johnson is an exciting thought. Both are 6'0" 200lbs DB's with a lot of talent. Thomas Graham Jr. flashed last year, and showed promise. Rumor is they've been playing him at the nickle, which may prove problematic for Duke Shelly, who did not have a great 2021 campaign. If you keep 12 DB's, then the locks are probably; Graham Jr., Jackson, Johnson, Brisker, DHC, Cruikshank, Young, and Gordon. That leaves four spots for the rest.

As I understand it, Eberflus' system will play into the strengths of Vildor. Shelley may have a shot as back-up nickle. They gave Cruikshank a 1yr/$1M+ guaranteed contract, so there is something Poles likes there. The rest are one year minimum or rookie deals.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Shit Moriarty. I just posted a thread about the DB position.

Mods do you want to merge?

[Moriarty]

One noticeable difference is the focus on big bodied, tall DB's. Quite a change from the last time the Bears ran a Tampa 2.

I would disagree with that.

Graham and Vildor are only 5'10
Young & Shelley are teenytiny at 5'9 or less
Gordon & Johnson are the biggest, and still don't even hit 6'0 even

They have a lot of fringe CBs who are tall, but major longshots to make the roster.

That's not very big in today's NFL at all
Peanut would be using them to rest his drink on their heads

[wab]

Based on the roster:

Gordon - 6'0 200
Johnson - 6'0 196
Graham - 5'11 197
Vildor - 5'11 189
Young - 5'9 177

Jayson Stanley and Lamar Jackson are the only "tall" corners at 6'2 and they are probably practice squad guys.

[wab]

Merged

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

We’re going to smash this season.

We’re taking the North and we’re never giving it back

[Middleguard]

What about the 15% of plays where you aren't even using a NB? You can dismiss that as small, but it's not. Football games frequently turn on 2-3 plays. Also, who's the part-time, substitute "QB of the defense" during those 15% - certainly not a CB who's lined up way out by the sideline?

Last year, Eberflus coached more than one game where there were at least 3 DBs on the field the entire game.

[wab]

Also...the last time the Bears ran the T2 they had some pretty tall starters. Both Zack Bowman and Peanut were 6'2. Conte was 6'2, Steltz was 6'2.

But they also had some smaller guys like Jennings, Vasher, DJ Moore, etc.

[The Marshall Plan]

We’re going to smash this season.

We’re taking the North and we’re never giving it back

From your lips to God's Ears.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

One noticeable difference is the focus on big bodied, tall DB's. Quite a change from the last time the Bears ran a Tampa 2.

I would disagree with that.

Graham and Vildor are only 5'10
Young & Shelley are teenytiny at 5'9 or less
Gordon & Johnson are the biggest, and still don't even hit 6'0 even

They have a lot of fringe CBs who are tall, but major longshots to make the roster.

That's not very big in today's NFL at all
Peanut would be using them to rest his drink on their heads

Vildor is listed at 5'11" and 190lbs. Most of the DB's we had last time we ran a Tampa 2 averaged about 5'9" 180lbs. Comparing against a previous scheme, these are bigger bodied DB's.

[The Marshall Plan]

I don't understand the drama about Prince Gordon.

One thing to keep in mind is that Gordon, IIRC, was expected to go in the first round by Poles and a lot of other scouting reports and he fell which is why we jumped on him in the second round.

Slot corners aren't first round picks. Nor do you draft a guy that high in the second with the explicit intent of him being a slot corner. His tape also doesn't say "slot corner" to me.

Commitment to football? That's the kind of commentary that comes out and pulls a false flag on a prospect to make them drop. OMG no he likes ballet. Let's cut him right now and save us the drama. Gimme a break. OK seriously, if the guy was into app development and invented Twitter or the Post-It or something I could see the concern. But over ballet?

The secondary is going to be the strength of this defense. It could be something special.

If only we had push up the middle with the DTs. The defense desperately needs that and I don't see where that's gonna come from.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I just don’t see young men putting their physical health on the line not to mention CTE risk in NFL if they’re not committed to football. If you’re not committed you wouldn’t make it to elite level. For me, it’s as simple as that. Obviously it’s a spectrum and some lads will be all consumed with every aspect of the game whereas others have a life away from NFL. I have no issue with either and there’s no correlation in short or long term success in my opinion. Look at Aaron Rogers, is he committed to NFL? Sacking off the practice and holding out last season, presenting jeopardy.

I’m very happy with Kyler Gordon and he’s going to give the Bears 100% I’ve absolutely no doubt about it.

[dplank]

I just don’t see young men putting their physical health on the line not to mention CTE risk in NFL if they’re not committed to football. If you’re not committed you wouldn’t make it to elite level. For me, it’s as simple as that. Obviously it’s a spectrum and some lads will be all consumed with every aspect of the game whereas others have a life away from NFL. I have no issue with either and there’s no correlation in short or long term success in my opinion. Look at Aaron Rogers, is he committed to NFL? Sacking off the practice and holding out last season, presenting jeopardy.

I’m very happy with Kyler Gordon and he’s going to give the Bears 100% I’ve absolutely no doubt about it.

This is an understated, excellent point. You don't make it to the NFL if you aren't a committed athlete. There will be shades within just like you said, but I always laugh when people act like these guys are loafers - they've all achieved something we can only dream about and had the work ethic to get there. I'll never forget folks piling on Cedric Benson because he cried when drafted and said he liked to eat ice cream. The dude broke records at Texas, the implication that he was a loafer was absolute bullshit. He didn't pan out, that happens all the time, but good lord. Marshawn Lynch ate Skittles on the sidelines FFS, then went beast mode.

[IE]

I think Gordon is being repped at 2 spots because he'll play both. I think he'll play NB if they feel it is important and he's the best answer. But IF he is also the best answer for the other spot across from JJ when the NB comes out, he'll stay in and Kindle or whoever will sit out those snaps. They keep saying how smart and instinctive he is so I'll guess that includes being able to play both corner positions.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Nice article on Jaylon Johnson:

This should be the beginning of Bears CB Jaylon Johnson’s prime

...
It’s still early for Johnson, but this is the perfect moment for his talent and experience to meld — the start of his prime.

“It’s one of those things that just happens by nature and really just seeing something over and over and over and over,” he said when asked how well he understands the game now, after 1,800 snaps, compared to when he debuted. “People ask, ‘How do you read this? How do you see this? How do you play that?’ And a lot of times, my answer is [that] I’ve just seen it a lot of times.

“I just have a different feel. I remember releases. I remember formations. I just can’t explain it or categorize it really.”

It’s an internal database, and it includes detailed files on opposing quarterbacks and wide receivers.

He studies receivers constantly and already knows he’ll be tangling with some of the best this season. All-Pro Deebo Samuel of the 49ers awaits him in Week 1, and Justin Jefferson, Tyreek Hill and Stefon Diggs are on the list, too.

Johnson has never faced some of them — at least not in real life. The fact that he has played against only 19 of the other 31 teams underscores how young he is. But he has memorized moves from endlessly replaying their videos, whether they’re from team-cut scouting clips or viral highlights circulating on Twitter, and defended them in his mind countless times. He described it as an obsession.

“I get to a point where I have my mental imagery, and I’ll just go throughout my house, eyes closed, working and seeing the movements and getting the timing down and imagining myself in front of them,” Johnson said. “I’ve [gone] against those guys thousands of times in my own imagination.”

Nonetheless, Hill is far faster and Diggs more elusive on the field than anything Johnson envisions while pantomiming in his kitchen. And while those two and several others on the schedule could overwhelm an average corner, the Bears are betting on Johnson rising to their level.
...

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022 ... dle-vildor

[Moriarty]

When people talk about "commitment" they can be talking about 2 different things (or a combination of both).

There's focus and effort in the short term.
Yes, you can't get to the NFL level without some hard work. But there's different levels to it and what suffices in college is not necessarily what suffices at the NFL level. Witness Teven Jenkins. Kyler Murray, or any number of QBs who admit "I've never really had to study film that hard until now".

There's also long-term commitment to the sport.
Some people live and die football and won't leave until the phone stops ringing for at least a year. Others find it easy to walk away before their body is used up, because they have other priorities and interests.
Robert Smith gained 1500 yards then walked away to pursue a career in medicine.
Darnell Autrey was an excellent college RB. But he was really more interesting in pursuing acting and didn't give anywhere near everything he had to pro football.
Eddie Goldman was plenty committed to football. For 5 years. And then he wasn't.
etc

[dplank]

Side note on Darnell Autrey. Back in 97 or 98 I was in my fantasy football finals, a league that still runs and we have all played since 1988 (yes, 1988, we did the scoring through newspaper box scores! and we have a cool trophy that gets passed around like the Stanley Cup with all the winners names engraved each year - 5 of the original members are now dead it's been so long). Anyhow, the league is important to me, more for prestige than anything - I'm a 5 time, and current champion. So back to 97 - I had Terrell Davis as my bell cow, one of his MVP type years where he scored a shit ton of TD's. But the Broncos had solidified their playoff spot and were expected to sit a bunch of guys after the 1st quarter of their last game (our championship game), and so I took a chance and started Darnell Autrey over Terrell Davis. Autrey punched in a goal line TD, which gave me the win in a close game!

[Jwalters]

https://gridironheroics.com/a-forgotten ... s-at-camp/

[The Marshall Plan]

Tertiary.

[IE]

Tangential

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Perhaps this thread could be merged into the Position Review - DB thread?