Update: Roquan traded to Ravens

[RichH55]

Is everyone going to continue to pretend that the Bears haven't (reportedly) offered Roquan multiple compelling and fair offers...that he has continued to turn down? The whole "pay him whatever he wants" strategy is a bad one.

And they even let him start on the PUP list to boot.

But to answer your question - Most will yes. They will call Poles like dollar bill or the like (*)

(*) Except for the people who legit think that Cliff Stein makes the final call here

[thunderspirit]

There's nothing wrong with resigning Ro. Players should get the lion's share of the money anyway, and I believe anyone in his position would be trying to get the most they could too.
I would like the Bears to resign him. He's been a very productive player, is 25, and likely has his best years ahead of him, especially in a defense that highlights the position he'll play.

This is not the same as "pay the man whatever he wants" or the equivalent. I don't do that when I buy a car, and I don't expect most people do.
At the same time, that's not trying to protect millionaires' money — that's budgeting and looking for the best deal on every contract. That's smart business.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I still think this is all part of the dance and Roquan will sign up.

Once the football starts we’ll all get back to being “normal” again

[southdakbearfan]

I still think this is all part of the dance and Roquan will sign up.

Once the football starts we’ll all get back to being “normal” again

I agree.

[The Marshall Plan]

I still think this is all part of the dance and Roquan will sign up.

Once the football starts we’ll all get back to being “normal” again

Agreed.

[Eriebear]

Do any of you guys think Smith might feel he's better in a 3/4 D?

[mmmc_35]

Do any of you guys think Smith might feel he's better in a 3/4 D?

Perhaps it would be an extremely introspective concept fairly few people have. So I doubt it. More likely its money. Money drives people.

[Heinz D.]

You're responding to Smith's public outrage, not to any actual information. At least most of the rest of us are responding to specific hypotheticals here.

If it makes you feel better, then yes: if everything Smith has said about his contract negotiation is true, then Poles is at fault.

Is there some compelling reason that we should think Smith is lying about everything?

I want to see it first before I make him the highest paid ILB in NFL history.

Ignoring my point about what sort of defense he played in college. Sweet.

And do we know he actually wanted the biggest contract, ever? That could well be, I just don't recall that being spelled out.

Either way, you pay him, and if he somehow can't perform in Flus' system (doubtful), then you trade him. Doing otherwise is just abject stupidity.

[karhu]

You're responding to Smith's public outrage, not to any actual information. At least most of the rest of us are responding to specific hypotheticals here.

If it makes you feel better, then yes: if everything Smith has said about his contract negotiation is true, then Poles is at fault.

Is there some compelling reason that we should think Smith is lying about everything?

Same reason we should believe that you've stopped beating your wife.*

It's not a question of Smith lying. We don't have the information we'd need to make that call.

I'm sure that he's sincere about feeling offended. I'm equally sure that his feelings of offense aren't enough to build an argument on. Because feelings can be powerful, genuine, and completely off-base all at the same time.


* Man, I hope you're old enough to remember when that was the classic example of a false gotcha.

[mmmc_35]

Same reason we should believe that you've stopped beating your wife.*

Man I spit my beer out I haven't heard this is a while.

[RichH55]

You're responding to Smith's public outrage, not to any actual information. At least most of the rest of us are responding to specific hypotheticals here.

If it makes you feel better, then yes: if everything Smith has said about his contract negotiation is true, then Poles is at fault.

Is there some compelling reason that we should think Smith is lying about everything?

I want to see it first before I make him the highest paid ILB in NFL history.

Ignoring my point about what sort of defense he played in college. Sweet.

And do we know he actually wanted the biggest contract, ever? That could well be, I just don't recall that being spelled out.

Either way, you pay him, and if he somehow can't perform in Flus' system (doubtful), then you trade him. Doing otherwise is just abject stupidity.

This is not how to do it in a Cap League

But I do like how you logic it poorly and then say any other way is "abject" stupidity - Bravo

[G08]

Ignoring my point about what sort of defense he played in college. Sweet.

NFL is a different stage, man.

He wants more money than Darius Leonard, who thrived in this defense. 17 forced fumbles to Roquan Smith's 1.

Look at the number of Pro Bowls for these players as well (0 for Roquan and yes, I understand the Pro Bowl is ostensibly a popularity contest).

I'm not doubting Roquan Smith's talents, but there literally is 0 NFL tape of him in this scheme. None.


It's just dumb, IMO, to make him the highest paid ILB in NFL history. Now, if he played out this season and balled out? Pay him all the money.

[mmmc_35]

It's just dumb, IMO, to make him the highest paid ILB in NFL history. Now, if he played out this season and balled out? Pay him all the money.

This is the correct position for the team in my opinion. I don't blame a player for looking for money. I think Smith is overplaying his hand, and playing it to early.

[G08]

It's just dumb, IMO, to make him the highest paid ILB in NFL history. Now, if he played out this season and balled out? Pay him all the money.

I think Smith is overplaying his hand, and playing it to early.

Agreed, and I think he's being a petulant little bitch.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

If only he could see himself as others see him, it would free him from many a blunder. -- Robert Burns

[dplank]

Not everyone sees him the way you guys do - I don’t.

[mmmc_35]

Not everyone sees him the way you guys do - I don’t.

I see him as dumb. Not intellectually, I have no idea how intelligent he is. He chose to play a shit game of chicken. I dont see how he wins.

He strapped up to early, in the wrong climate, without enough backing, asking for the world. I think it was the wrong choice.

I speculate it was done with emotion and not logic. He still may get what he wants, and good for him. I just dont think the path was smart.

[docc]

Bears are 4th in LB spending in the league now
% of Cap Rank
Linebacker 13 $36,290,251 17.29% 4

Chargers
Linebacker 13 $52,375,989 24.27% 1
Both pay 13

Of course Bosa is $28,250,000

[G08]

Look, the guy has a right to ask for much money as he wants. I get that.

I think he's out in front of his skis, and I thought the same when he held out as a rookie, too.


It's a consistent(ish) theme with him, which I don't care for at all. When you ask for new money while you're under contract, the concept is that you give a little to get more. It seems like he wants to break records left and right. If that's his MO, fine by me, but you're playing under your 5th year deal and I have the option of tagging you in year 6. Those become negotiating ploys, you can't just hold your breath, plug your ears and throw a tantrum to those facts ("you = Roquan Smith").

At this point, I tell him we can't seem to find a middle ground and we aren't trading him unless he can find us a top 10 pick. Then he'll tuck his tail between his legs and play this season and based on the tape, we can assess what we want to do moving forward. 2023 Franchise Tag number for LBs is $18,291,000 from what I could find. That's the starting point in my negotiations.

If we tag him in 2023, I'd make our big FA splashes then and let him walk in 2024 if we can't find a deal. If he gets the $$$ he wants, that's a nice comp pick coming back to us.

[Shadow]

Roquan is over playing his hand. He is under contract for this season. Going full gonzo right away in negotiation is a bad move. This young man should really have an Agent and not represent himself. An Agent gives the seperation of emotion that these negotiations desperately need. Roquan is trying to negotiate with his emotions and not his head.

He is no longer on the PUP list, so will now face $40K fine per practice missed. He has failed to see Poles effort to protect him from these fines by placing him on the PUP. Airing his dirty laundry in public is not a good negotiating tactic. Thus his removal from the PUP and fines are coming. He continues to hold out and he may find himself on the suspended list (Detrimental to team). Ask T. O. what that does to a career.

He is a good player, but he is not the best at his position and does not deserve the highest salary for it. He is typically listed as the 7th to 5th best at his position as an ILB. No one knows what he will be like at WLB.

My thought on this is, grant him permission (Roquan the Agent) to go out and find a trade. He will quickly see what his true value is to the other 31 teams. Then let him return to the negotiating table with that information. He wants a trade, not the Bears. He needs to find a deal that satisfies all parties. This is not Poles responsibility, it is Roquans. In the meantime the fines are stacking up and the team is moving on without him, regardless.

Bears are in full rebuild. WLB is just one more position to fill. We have already seen Mack get traded and many vets not re-signed. (Akiem Hicks...etc)

Roquan has maturity issues that are documented. 1. Left his brand new iPad playbook in his car and let it get stolen. 2. Held out his rookie year over silly clauses in his rookie deal.3. Photo's of him partying with Pornstars on a boat during a lockdown. 4. Now this current mess. What teams re desperate enough to be interested in aquiring this guy?

Roquan needs to grow up and ball out this year and try to hit free agency in 2023.

Just my opinion on this subject....not really caring if he stays or goes. Way to early in this rebuild to even know if he has a future on this team. He may suck at WLB without Mack and Hicks and Goldman in front of him??? Too many question marks all over this team, too hard to tell at this time. We will see what happens, but I am losing no sleep over this guy.

[Rusty Trombagent]

this is literally roquan's side of the negotiation:

https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/fa032f ... 543afa0a12

[IE]

He's at practice today.

[dplank]

I’m very disappointed with what I’m reading here. My personal belief is that jealousy is driving the disrespect, curious how you’d speak to him face to face.

[Shadow]

He's at practice today.

Okay, is he actually practicing? That would be great if he is. If he is still holding in, then I do not care. Bears are getting ready for a season of football, good or bad. I only really care about players that are playing for the Bears.

[IE]

He's at practice today.

Okay, is he actually practicing? That would be great if he is. If he is still holding in, then I do not care. Bears are getting ready for a season of football, good or bad. I only really care about players that are playing for the Bears.

Yes - he has no (good) choice. If he's there and dressed, he's doing what they ask. You don't hold out AND be on the field during practice.

[The Marshall Plan]

So a bunch of people around here are now hating on probably our best player because he's trying to get paid.

As if those same people don't do similar things at their own job with working with recruiters, asking their boss for a raise, etc.

This is how it works in the NFL. There's contract drama of a great player in the last year of his deal. Shocker.

The GM makes a contract offer that might be a lowball. Shocker.

Player demands a trade. Shocker.

If things go nuclear the Bears will tag Roquan for I believe up to two years and then wind up signing him anyway.

But no, Bears fans in their nihilistic existence instead decide to hate on a player that's done nothing but produce.

[Moriarty]

Roquan is over playing his hand. He is under contract for this season. Going full gonzo right away in negotiation is a bad move. This young man should really have an Agent and not represent himself. An Agent gives the seperation of emotion that these negotiations desperately need. Roquan is trying to negotiate with his emotions and not his head.

He is no longer on the PUP list, so will now face $40K fine per practice missed. He has failed to see Poles effort to protect him from these fines by placing him on the PUP. Airing his dirty laundry in public is not a good negotiating tactic. Thus his removal from the PUP and fines are coming. He continues to hold out and he may find himself on the suspended list (Detrimental to team). Ask T. O. what that does to a career.

He is a good player, but he is not the best at his position and does not deserve the highest salary for it. He is typically listed as the 7th to 5th best at his position as an ILB. No one knows what he will be like at WLB.

My thought on this is, grant him permission (Roquan the Agent) to go out and find a trade. He will quickly see what his true value is to the other 31 teams. Then let him return to the negotiating table with that information. He wants a trade, not the Bears. He needs to find a deal that satisfies all parties. This is not Poles responsibility, it is Roquans. In the meantime the fines are stacking up and the team is moving on without him, regardless.

Bears are in full rebuild. WLB is just one more position to fill. We have already seen Mack get traded and many vets not re-signed. (Akiem Hicks...etc)

Roquan has maturity issues that are documented. 1. Left his brand new iPad playbook in his car and let it get stolen. 2. Held out his rookie year over silly clauses in his rookie deal.3. Photo's of him partying with Pornstars on a boat during a lockdown. 4. Now this current mess. What teams re desperate enough to be interested in aquiring this guy?

Roquan needs to grow up and ball out this year and try to hit free agency in 2023.

Just my opinion on this subject....not really caring if he stays or goes. Way to early in this rebuild to even know if he has a future on this team. He may suck at WLB without Mack and Hicks and Goldman in front of him??? Too many question marks all over this team, too hard to tell at this time. We will see what happens, but I am losing no sleep over this guy.

I don't think there's any chance he sucks at WLB, but:

• WLBs are very easily replaceable
• Without bums around him (Ogletree or Broken Trevathan) his numbers could go down. And Morrow could look good. And the Bears might decide Morrow for 8-10M is a much better investment than Roquan for 23M

[Shadow]

Okay, is he actually practicing? That would be great if he is. If he is still holding in, then I do not care. Bears are getting ready for a season of football, good or bad. I only really care about players that are playing for the Bears.

Yes - he has no (good) choice. If he's there and dressed, he's doing what they ask. You don't hold out AND be on the field during practice.

Well that is good news then.

[Shadow]

Roquan is over playing his hand. He is under contract for this season. Going full gonzo right away in negotiation is a bad move. This young man should really have an Agent and not represent himself. An Agent gives the seperation of emotion that these negotiations desperately need. Roquan is trying to negotiate with his emotions and not his head.

He is no longer on the PUP list, so will now face $40K fine per practice missed. He has failed to see Poles effort to protect him from these fines by placing him on the PUP. Airing his dirty laundry in public is not a good negotiating tactic. Thus his removal from the PUP and fines are coming. He continues to hold out and he may find himself on the suspended list (Detrimental to team). Ask T. O. what that does to a career.

He is a good player, but he is not the best at his position and does not deserve the highest salary for it. He is typically listed as the 7th to 5th best at his position as an ILB. No one knows what he will be like at WLB.

My thought on this is, grant him permission (Roquan the Agent) to go out and find a trade. He will quickly see what his true value is to the other 31 teams. Then let him return to the negotiating table with that information. He wants a trade, not the Bears. He needs to find a deal that satisfies all parties. This is not Poles responsibility, it is Roquans. In the meantime the fines are stacking up and the team is moving on without him, regardless.

Bears are in full rebuild. WLB is just one more position to fill. We have already seen Mack get traded and many vets not re-signed. (Akiem Hicks...etc)

Roquan has maturity issues that are documented. 1. Left his brand new iPad playbook in his car and let it get stolen. 2. Held out his rookie year over silly clauses in his rookie deal.3. Photo's of him partying with Pornstars on a boat during a lockdown. 4. Now this current mess. What teams re desperate enough to be interested in aquiring this guy?

Roquan needs to grow up and ball out this year and try to hit free agency in 2023.

Just my opinion on this subject....not really caring if he stays or goes. Way to early in this rebuild to even know if he has a future on this team. He may suck at WLB without Mack and Hicks and Goldman in front of him??? Too many question marks all over this team, too hard to tell at this time. We will see what happens, but I am losing no sleep over this guy.

I don't think there's any chance he sucks at WLB, but:

• WLBs are very easily replaceable
• Without bums around him (Ogletree or Broken Trevathan) his numbers could go down. And Morrow could look good. And the Bears might decide Morrow for 8-10M is a much better investment than Roquan for 23M

This is why a rebuilding team cannot get caught up in big money negotiations for a player that is already under contract. Roquan has played very well, but he has not played a single snap of football in a 4-3 Cover two defense. So, let the tape tell the tale.
Bear Down!

[Rusty Trombagent]

Yes - he has no (good) choice. If he's there and dressed, he's doing what they ask. You don't hold out AND be on the field during practice.

Well that is good news then.

He didnt practice yesterday (after he was cleared). There's no practice today before tomorrow's game.
So actually, he's there and not practicing. Holding out and being on the practice field is exactly what the phrase "holding in" means.