Update: Watson fined 5m/suspended 11 games

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Anyway, innocent until proven guilty is still a nice concept to agree on :love:
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dplank
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No one is defending Watson, typical Rich strawman. If you think that was Kraft's first time at a place like that, you're simply a fool. Selective outrage has been my consistent point and it remains my point. Why does the old rich guy owner get treated one way, when the young black football player gets treated completely differently? Both did awful things, both claimed innocence, neither was convicted in a court of law, both violated the league rules, and the league rules stipulate they must be deal with as equals. There's no gray area here.

I'm putting you on time out for a while, you've been acting like a dick all week. So don't read into any lack of response as winning an argument, just moving you back to block status until you get your meds right and start behaving normally again.
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dplank wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:54 pm I'm putting you on time out for a while, you've been acting like a dick all week. So don't read into any lack of response as winning an argument, just moving you back to block status until you get your meds right and start behaving normally again.
Heard this shit many times from my first wife. Where are you getting it from?
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https://www.aol.com/sports/deshaun-wats ... 30744.html

5M (still chump change for him) + 11 games
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For anyone wondering, 5 million is roughly 2% of Watson's guaranteed money.
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dplank
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wab wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:49 am For anyone wondering, 5 million is roughly 2% of Watson's guaranteed money.
Still seems light - although, not as light as the non-punishment given to Robert Kraft so I suppose it's all relative.
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dplank wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:23 pm
wab wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:49 am For anyone wondering, 5 million is roughly 2% of Watson's guaranteed money.
Still seems light - although, not as light as the non-punishment given to Robert Kraft so I suppose it's all relative.
The Kraft thing, of course, is very different but sure. Why not.

At least this seems like less of a Defense of Watson then your previous posts
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The Marshall Plan
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So since Big Ben got 6 games for alleged rape, is the moral of this story to not pay for consensual sex acts but instead just force it on the woman instead?

Or is this a white QB vs black QB thing? Couldn't be. Nah. That's can't be part of it at all.

I think Goodell is a bigot and somebody like him has no place at all in this society of being in charge of a company.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:25 pm So since Big Ben got 6 games for alleged rape, is the moral of this story to not pay for consensual sex acts but instead just force it on the woman instead?

Or is this a white QB vs black QB thing? Couldn't be. Nah. That's can't be part of it at all.

I think Goodell is a bigot and somebody like him has no place at all in this society of being in charge of a company.
Ray Rice only got 2 games originally?

And the Dolphins owner just got taken to the woodshed for talking to people he shouldnt have - so the Race thing isn't really what you are making it out to be (Tom Brady - golden boy got more than Ray Rice originally)

There is just a strong chance the NFL wants to take harder lines across the Board these days on such actions

Also Big Ben (whom I think would have gotten close to a year nowadays - I hope - or a ban?) - didn't have 20+ transgressions.

Overlooked when people act like Kraft pay for sex work is equivalent is that Watson was a Predator. An absolute predator
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RichH55 wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:18 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:25 pm So since Big Ben got 6 games for alleged rape, is the moral of this story to not pay for consensual sex acts but instead just force it on the woman instead?

Or is this a white QB vs black QB thing? Couldn't be. Nah. That's can't be part of it at all.

I think Goodell is a bigot and somebody like him has no place at all in this society of being in charge of a company.
Ray Rice only got 2 games originally?

And the Dolphins owner just got taken to the woodshed for talking to people he shouldnt have - so the Race thing isn't really what you are making it out to be (Tom Brady - golden boy got more than Ray Rice originally)

There is just a strong chance the NFL wants to take harder lines across the Board these days on such actions

Also Big Ben (whom I think would have gotten close to a year nowadays - I hope - or a ban?) - didn't have 20+ transgressions.

Overlooked when people act like Kraft pay for sex work is equivalent is that Watson was a Predator. An absolute predator
Watson didn't play at all last year because of this. 17 games.

Now an 11 game suspension?

28 games.

Big Ben the alleged rapist got 6.

If you want, we can broaden this discussion with more examples of Goodell's bigotry, but no, I think he's a racist pig who has no place being in charge of a company let alone a company where something like 70% of the players are black.

70% of the players are black.
0% of the owners.
What are there like 2 black coaches? Tomlin and Lovie right? Maybe I'm missing a couple. Let's say 4. Out of 32 some-odd teams.

Now this with Watson.

Yeah nothing to see here at all.
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RichH55 is right, the world has changed since the accusation against Roethlisberger due to the Me Too movement, Harvey Weinstein etc. The NFL has therefore had to change too because the damage accusations of misconduct can do to its brand is much higher than before.

In addition to be seen to be punishing Watson, the league has to send a clear message to all players that there will be significant consequences if they get caught behaving in a way that is detrimental to the league's reputation especially when it comes to issues of sexual impropriety.

Until there is another such punishable incident, and sadly there probably will be, to which we can compare Watson's punishment I think throwing accusations at the NFL or its commissioner are misplaced.

I would recommend not broadening the discussion because the last time racial disparities in NFL owners, executives and head coaches came up in relation to Brian Flores, UOK closed it down pretty quickly.
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Lol, yeah, Goodell is a bigot/racist continues to be just this weird hill to die on. Goodell is an employee of the 31 owners, and does exactly what they want him to do. I dont think any of his personal bias is really playing a part.

All any of these dudes have ever cared about is making money, and they're constantly adjusting the dial on the "how little do we have to do to insure that this cash cow keeps mooing" machine. That's the beginning and the end of this. There's been so much thoughtful analysis written about this whole situation, and I have not seen a single soul go with the Goodell is a racist angle because it's got nothing to do with it.
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I still think Watson should sue for unequal treatment. Somehow / someway I just want to see the old elite rich class start to be held account for their own actions just like everyone else is. This has nothing to do with Watson or race or anything, it’s a class system thing for me. Kraft got no punishment at all for banging sex slaves who were smuggled into the country, likely as children. It’s sickening.
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dplank wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:31 am I still think Watson should sue for unequal treatment. Somehow / someway I just want to see the old elite rich class start to be held account for their own actions just like everyone else is. This has nothing to do with Watson or race or anything, it’s a class system thing for me. Kraft got no punishment at all for banging sex slaves who were smuggled into the country, likely as children. It’s sickening.
It’s a total race thing. And yes Watson should absolutely sue.

Kraft. Rich white guy. Nothing happens.
Big Ben. Rich white QB. Six games for alleged rape. Rape.

Brian Flores. Black. The Giants played games with The Rooney Rule. Nothing happens.

Watson. Black. 28 games for consensual sex.

What really needs to happen is for some civil rights attorney to petition the feds to review the antitrust exemption and have the feds threaten to pull that unless Goodell resigns and they clean this shit up.
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I don’t think the Browns would do the deal again if they had a do-over.
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Grizzled wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:14 pm I don’t think the Browns would do the deal again if they had a do-over.
Yeah, they would. They're the Browns.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:17 pm
Grizzled wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:14 pm I don’t think the Browns would do the deal again if they had a do-over.
Yeah, they would. They're the Browns.
Itr will all come down to the final arbitrater of success in the NFL. Win a Super Bowl with him and I'm sure many will forgive and forget.
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Watson's was literally NOT consensual. Repeatedly so.

And he also wasn't suspended for 28 games - this is an untrue statement

The Kraft thing - you'd have to show knowledge of all that - which he almost certainly didn't have -
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Grizzled wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:14 pm I don’t think the Browns would do the deal again if they had a do-over.
Sadly I think they would have.

They structured his contract in a way knowing a sizeable suspension was coming. With basically all the facts in on him being a predator. (Same org. that signed Kareem Hunt)

They made a pact with the Devil - I hope it blows up in their face
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The league supposedly compromised on 11 games because the players unions would have sued in federal court if there had been a 16 game suspension. The union would definitely have put unequal disciplinary treatment of owners versus players in play and the league doesn't want a spotlight on that.
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The 11 is significant because it also lets him play the minimum required of 6 this year not have his contract "toll forward"
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Strap him down on a massage table..let a near blind Mohel work on him..no regard to previous work... Just a Chicago Cutlery steak knife and 85 year old Mohel making it a memory never to forget..
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:25 pm So since Big Ben got 6 games for alleged rape, is the moral of this story to not pay for consensual sex acts but instead just force it on the woman instead?

Or is this a white QB vs black QB thing? Couldn't be. Nah. That's can't be part of it at all.

I think Goodell is a bigot and somebody like him has no place at all in this society of being in charge of a company.
I would say the time span and difference in society is the main difference. I mean ray rice got two games initially for knocking out his significant other and dragging her out the elevator by her hair originally.
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southdakbearfan wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:35 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:25 pm So since Big Ben got 6 games for alleged rape, is the moral of this story to not pay for consensual sex acts but instead just force it on the woman instead?

Or is this a white QB vs black QB thing? Couldn't be. Nah. That's can't be part of it at all.

I think Goodell is a bigot and somebody like him has no place at all in this society of being in charge of a company.
I would say the time span and difference in society is the main difference. I mean ray rice got two games initially for knocking out his significant other and dragging her out the elevator by her hair originally.
One thing that needs to be factored in with Watson is that he already sat 17 games for this.

So now he's getting 28 games? I think that's nuts.

Big Ben got six games and it was lowered to four on appeal.

To your point, did the league under-penalize Ray Rice, probably.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/nfl-sus ... 20policies.

There really needs to be some kind of formal government review of this. Of all of the punishments. The NFL has an anti-trust exemption and it gets all these benefits from that. It can't have these kinds of disproportionate punishments.
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Watson chose to sit last year. Stop banging that drum please.
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I agree there has been a lot of disproportion, inconsistency and unfairness in the league's various disciplinary actions and I think that's because professional sports is a reflection of our society.
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RustinFields wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:05 am Watson chose to sit last year. Stop banging that drum please.
I'll bang that drum like Animal from the Muppets if I want to.

Watson wanted a trade and the Texans refused to play him.

He still missed out on 17 games. It's a valid point.
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Not really valid at all

I feel like you might not understand what the words valid or suspension or consensual mean
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:29 pm
RustinFields wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:05 am Watson chose to sit last year. Stop banging that drum please.
I'll bang that drum like Animal from the Muppets if I want to.

Watson wanted a trade and the Texans refused to play him.

He still missed out on 17 games. It's a valid point.
I agree with your overarching sentiment that black and white players are disciplined differently - that’s as plain as day. But I don’t lump on those 17 games to his punishment - he held out because his organization/ownership (also exhibiting racist behavior) pissed him off so bad he said he wouldn’t play there again. And he meant it. He was trying to force a trade to get out of there when all this other stuff dropped and all the sudden he was stuck - no one would trade given that uncertainty. Even given all that, he got his wish and got out of Houston and in to a massive new contract in Cleveland - had had plenty of leverage even though he was still under team control.

My issue is more about owners and players and the disparity there. This also reflects our society. Uber Rich (multi billionaire) people have bought everything and essentially operate outside of the law now. Musk and Bezos own 40% of American wealth, it’s absolutely absurd - those two could do anything they want and never pay the price for it. Robert Kraft should be in jail IMO. What he did was atrocious when you understand it thoroughly, but not a peep about it and no consequences at all.
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dplank wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:01 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:29 pm

I'll bang that drum like Animal from the Muppets if I want to.

Watson wanted a trade and the Texans refused to play him.

He still missed out on 17 games. It's a valid point.
I agree with your overarching sentiment that black and white players are disciplined differently - that’s as plain as day. But I don’t lump on those 17 games to his punishment - he held out because his organization/ownership (also exhibiting racist behavior) pissed him off so bad he said he wouldn’t play there again. And he meant it. He was trying to force a trade to get out of there when all this other stuff dropped and all the sudden he was stuck - no one would trade given that uncertainty. Even given all that, he got his wish and got out of Houston and in to a massive new contract in Cleveland - had had plenty of leverage even though he was still under team control.

My issue is more about owners and players and the disparity there. This also reflects our society. Uber Rich (multi billionaire) people have bought everything and essentially operate outside of the law now. Musk and Bezos own 40% of American wealth, it’s absolutely absurd - those two could do anything they want and never pay the price for it. Robert Kraft should be in jail IMO. What he did was atrocious when you understand it thoroughly, but not a peep about it and no consequences at all.
Just note that this isn't a response to YOU right? You and I have been on the same side of the issue for a while.

Keeping in mind that about 70% of the players in the NFL are black and that there are 32 teams.

# of Black Owners: 0. Edit: Zero, as in there has NEVER been a black owner.
# of Black GMs: 7 out of 32 teams
# of Black Head Coaches: I think there's 3. Maybe I'm missing one. Tomlin, Lovie and Bowles.

The Rooney Rule is a joke and is easily manipulated. Let's wait and see the results of the Brian Flores' (who I wanted as our coach) lawsuit or if there's just a settlement and it goes away.

My stance on everything race related in the NFL is to side with the black player unless he is literally caught holding a chainsaw and there's a dead man at his feet.

Big Ben allegedly raped two women. Raped. That's a decade or more in JAIL. Actual prison. He got four games after appeal.

Mike Vick allegedly ran a dog fighting operation which is obviously disgusting, but he got way more than that and Vick did actual time in jail. Don't get me wrong, I love dogs, but raping women is way worse.

Goodell needs to own that and he needs to resign. That's the barometer by how I judge everything else. Big Ben got four games. Black executives are screwed out of top notch jobs and out of 32 teams we don't have 1 black owner in a league that wouldn't exist without black people.

Given that, Watson should not have had any additional games added given that he missed all of last year. For better or worse, right or wrong, I'm going to side with the black guy here because the data is overwhelmingly embarrassing to the league.
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