Hema2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:38 am
How many games has the kid played? If you bench Fields, it's over and you draft QB in April. Without a doubt, you play him the rest of the year to see if he develops.
This idea of playing Siemian is absurd. What does an extra win or 2 do for this team? I'll tell you, absolutely nothing. This is not a playoff team. This is a bottom of the barrel, talent deficient team.
Fields is the key going forward. Poles and Co. need to know without doubt whether to ride with him going forward (2023 and beyond) or to draft a QB.
Exactly.
I remember when people were calling for Chase Daniel - or we'd "lose the locker room". It's a heat of the moment fandom bad call
Though to be fair - I think most of the Siemian talk here is as more of a counter-factual / people think Fields is gonna get hurt
I don't really think people are CALLING for him, if that makes sense?
Hema2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:38 am
How many games has the kid played? If you bench Fields, it's over and you draft QB in April. Without a doubt, you play him the rest of the year to see if he develops.
This idea of playing Siemian is absurd. What does an extra win or 2 do for this team? I'll tell you, absolutely nothing. This is not a playoff team. This is a bottom of the barrel, talent deficient team.
Fields is the key going forward. Poles and Co. need to know without doubt whether to ride with him going forward (2023 and beyond) or to draft a QB.
Exactly.
I remember when people were calling for Chase Daniel - or we'd "lose the locker room". It's a heat of the moment fandom bad call
Though to be fair - I think most of the Siemian talk here is as more of a counter-factual / people think Fields is gonna get hurt
I don't really think people are CALLING for him, if that makes sense?
I agree. But if Fields gets hurt we are back in purgatory again and if by chance he can't finish the season then what does Poles do?
Why can't Chicago just copy the Cheese head plan and draft back to back HOFers to end my life with?
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Caleb, and Hell followed with him.
Grizzled wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:37 am
Horrendous game which was the poster child for pointing out, yet again, the weaknesses of this team. Which have been enumerated by other posters. All I'll add is Poles continues to do nothing to try and correct the issues with different players who are available.
And a shout-out to our English brethren, HRS and Ditka's Dictaphone, who stayed up really late to torture themselves with that game and were on Discord. As for Ditka, I think he's in the market for an alpaca now, he and the wife recently encountered one and he seems enamored with them.
Thanks Grizz
That was a really terrible game but I thought our first 2 drives were great. Just terrible endings.
Hema2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:38 am
How many games has the kid played? If you bench Fields, it's over and you draft QB in April. Without a doubt, you play him the rest of the year to see if he develops.
This idea of playing Siemian is absurd. What does an extra win or 2 do for this team? I'll tell you, absolutely nothing. This is not a playoff team. This is a bottom of the barrel, talent deficient team.
Fields is the key going forward. Poles and Co. need to know without doubt whether to ride with him going forward (2023 and beyond) or to draft a QB.
Exactly.
I remember when people were calling for Chase Daniel - or we'd "lose the locker room". It's a heat of the moment fandom bad call
Though to be fair - I think most of the Siemian talk here is as more of a counter-factual / people think Fields is gonna get hurt
I don't really think people are CALLING for him, if that makes sense?
It’s not Fields that should be benched. But you can’t develop a QB that faces so much pressure. You can irreparably damage a QB though.
They’ve got to do something different with the offensive line.
And I’m confused why developing a fifth round rookie tackle seems to be a higher priority than keeping your QB healthy to this regime.
Justin Fields is already not a bust. It is only a question of how good he'll be in an established system with support and weapons. For 3 weeks in a row now he's been driving the field and putting the team in a position to score most of the game WHILE learning & with a recognized lack of support. He's an effing stud.
2023 Chicago Bears... emerging from a long hibernation, and hungry!
That was a tough game to watch and I stopped about 03:30 am when we scored. I was up for work at 0600.
I think we actually moved the ball really well in the first quarter. Everything is skewed by how the drive ends.
Fields didn’t play well but he was put under extraordinary pressure.
We have to stick with Fields. He is getting so much benefit by experiencing this. It’s like being thrown into the lions den. He taking some big hits, he’s got players in his face yet he keeps coming back and going through the process.
He’s going to battle through this, he will not back down.
Just think how easy the game will be for him when he does get protection from the line and when he does get weapons.
This is the perfect apprenticeship season for him. If he can come through this he will be so mentally tough and physically resilient that he’ll be unplayable.
Keep putting him through this shit, it’s good for his development.
- Fields is getting brutalized and injury seems a matter of when not if
- Fields is developing a lot of bad habits because the pass protection is so unbelievably bad
- Fields is not trusting his WR's at all and seems too worried about making mistakes, he needs to let if fly. Maybe seeing a dink and dunk guy for 1 week go out there and show him how short consistent plays can get it done more than swinging for HR's all the time, and running if it's not there.
Agree with TWB here, we are developing OL players AT THE EXPENSE of Justin Fields safety and development. Jones was awful last night, and Mustipher / Patrick have been consistently awful all year. And yet, only Teven Jenkins is held to any sort of performance standard. I don't mind them holding him accountable, I mind them not holding anyone else accountable in the same manner.
TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:44 am
And I’m confused why developing a fifth round rookie tackle seems to be a higher priority than keeping your QB healthy to this regime.
Because Poles has said from the day he took the job: He is building a football team. Not a football team around a QB.
You can debate the merits of it, but he's stuck to it.
TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:44 am
And I’m confused why developing a fifth round rookie tackle seems to be a higher priority than keeping your QB healthy to this regime.
Because Poles has said from the day he took the job: He is building a football team. Not a football team around a QB.
You can debate the merits of it, but he's stuck to it.
That doesn’t really make sense since a football team needs a QB and their approach hinders the development of the QB.
And real football teams actually try to protect their QB. Offensive line players that can’t protect their QB either get benched or get helped to hide their ineptitude.
Forcing Jones to take one on snaps when he clearly couldn’t handle it was baffling.
wab wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:05 am
Because Poles has said from the day he took the job: He is building a football team. Not a football team around a QB.
You can debate the merits of it, but he's stuck to it.
That doesn’t really make sense since a football team needs a QB and their approach hinders the development of the QB.
And real football teams actually try to protect their QB. Offensive line players that can’t protect their QB either get benched or get helped to hide their ineptitude.
Forcing Jones to take one on snaps when he clearly couldn’t handle it was baffling.
Like I said - you can debate the merits of it. But that doesn't change the fact that he said it, and he's now literally doing it.
At the time I worried that it was code for "I didn't draft him, so I'm not going to worry about building around him" and now it is playing out exactly like that.
wab wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:05 am
Because Poles has said from the day he took the job: He is building a football team. Not a football team around a QB.
You can debate the merits of it, but he's stuck to it.
That doesn’t really make sense since a football team needs a QB and their approach hinders the development of the QB.
And real football teams actually try to protect their QB. Offensive line players that can’t protect their QB either get benched or get helped to hide their ineptitude.
Forcing Jones to take one on snaps when he clearly couldn’t handle it was baffling.
When the Bears kept in additional players to help block and sent two/three players out in patterns, they moved the ball into the red zone twice.
When they tried to block with their base five, Fields was picking himself up gingerly a lot.
Moreover, @wab is correct. And, if we're being honest, Braxton Jones was Poles' guy. Justin Fields wasn't.
We need to steal the playbook from the Ravens and Bills on how to build an athletic QB with a cannon of an arm. Both teams had issues with O-line and WR's when they were drafted. The difference is that we are trying to make him a pocket QB (WIth no pocket) instead of building an offense around his strengths and then letting him gradually turn into a pocket QB.
This game hurt so flipping bad.
Could bitch about the no-call in the end zone on Pettis, Jones costing us 2 games in the three he has played, Mooney not catching that last pass in the end zone.
Instead, I will just say that one hurt and still does this morning.
I got a lot of crap from folks on this board when I said, prior to the season, the team was going to suck. This isn't an "I told you so" post. It's a, "Why get so upset" post. I said they did nothing to improve the o-line and that they were worse off this year than last. And they are. I said it was odd to me that they traded up to get Fields, gave up a 1st round pick in the process, but spent their first two picks in the 2022 draft on defense and not protecting Fields. Yesterday, the offensive linemen were getting driven into Fields. They were manhandled. Fields would go down, not because a Commander got to him, but because a Commander pushed a Bears offensive lineman into Fields. The team is a joke.
I watched the entire game and never once got mad. There's a point where fandom needs to end and commonsense needs to take over. There is nothing on the team worth getting excited over. They've got no elite offensive weapons. They can't protect the QB. And their QB is subpar (which is putting it mildly).
Why get all bent out of shape when they lose? It's a foregone conclusion. The team isn't built to be competitive. Right now, ownership seems more interested in building a new stadium than putting together a competitive team. It is what it is. I'll watch them still. But I have no expectations other than that they'll lose week in and week out. I guess I don't understand why, at this point, anyone would allow themselves to get upset/angry/disappointed when the Bears lose. It's not worth the stress.
That doesn’t really make sense since a football team needs a QB and their approach hinders the development of the QB.
And real football teams actually try to protect their QB. Offensive line players that can’t protect their QB either get benched or get helped to hide their ineptitude.
Forcing Jones to take one on snaps when he clearly couldn’t handle it was baffling.
Like I said - you can debate the merits of it. But that doesn't change the fact that he said it, and he's now literally doing it.
At the time I worried that it was code for "I didn't draft him, so I'm not going to worry about building around him" and now it is playing out exactly like that.
Unless this is a weird structure, it’s not Poles calling the blocking assignments or deciding who plays though.
Braxton Jones could not block Sweat but they seemed to make a point of giving him as many one on one reps as possible despite the peril this put Fields in.
I remember when people were calling for Chase Daniel - or we'd "lose the locker room". It's a heat of the moment fandom bad call
Though to be fair - I think most of the Siemian talk here is as more of a counter-factual / people think Fields is gonna get hurt
I don't really think people are CALLING for him, if that makes sense?
It’s not Fields that should be benched. But you can’t develop a QB that faces so much pressure. You can irreparably damage a QB though.
They’ve got to do something different with the offensive line.
And I’m confused why developing a fifth round rookie tackle seems to be a higher priority than keeping your QB healthy to this regime.
At LT. Who would you like to put there? Reiff? If he were any good he would already be starting. Leatherwood is damaged goods and is a WIP. Jenkins? Been there done that, and he proved to be worse than Jones. We’re stuck dude.
UOK wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 11:42 pm
I wish this was game 17. This team needs to finish dead last and purge.
I read somewhere the Bears will be one of the teams with the most cap space next year ... they mentioned on the post game show it is around 100 mil ... so Poles will have the resources required to do the "building a team" he has spoken about more than once ... and offensive line needs to be a priority with a legit #1 receiver as priority 2
how sad is it that week 6 into a season we are having conversations about the off season? how sad that this Bears team is so bad we are most looking forward to many of the current players not being on the team?
speaking of not being on the team, Velus Jones needs to be gone now ... this is now the second game where his punt return efforts helped the opponent more than the Bears ... his effort against Washington was like a Looney Tunes cartoon it was so comically inept
"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things." George Carlin
Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:40 pm
I’m still sticking with 11-6 for this season.
Once the pieces fall into place we will be dangerous
God love ya man, but I think you have that number backwards at best.
Bears are going to struggle mightily to win another game this season. They're looking at the very real possibility of being shutout by both the Patriots and the Cowboys
IE wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:53 am
Justin Fields is already not a bust. It is only a question of how good he'll be in an established system with support and weapons. For 3 weeks in a row now he's been driving the field and putting the team in a position to score most of the game WHILE learning & with a recognized lack of support. He's an effing stud.
IE wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:53 am
Justin Fields is already not a bust. It is only a question of how good he'll be in an established system with support and weapons. For 3 weeks in a row now he's been driving the field and putting the team in a position to score most of the game WHILE learning & with a recognized lack of support. He's an effing stud.
This is simply wishful thinking sadly.
I hope you are right ultimately.
You are wrong. Wishful thinking is hoping he'll be a 10 yearn or longer franchise QB. Everything I said is true.
2023 Chicago Bears... emerging from a long hibernation, and hungry!
IE wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:53 am
Justin Fields is already not a bust. It is only a question of how good he'll be in an established system with support and weapons. For 3 weeks in a row now he's been driving the field and putting the team in a position to score most of the game WHILE learning & with a recognized lack of support. He's an effing stud.
You are wrong. Wishful thinking is hoping he'll be a 10 yearn or longer franchise QB. Everything I said is true.
He could absolutely still be a bust.
His Rookie Season was terrible. And this year isn't much better.
Bust is absolutely still on the table. I know we'd prefer it wasn't - but thats wishful thinking
No - you're mistaken. You just dismiss context, and have no concept of recency and other adjustments that better reflect reality than the tired outdated examples you use to make your case. The scoreboard is a lagging indicator. The drives game after game and increasingly successful passing game with lesser weapons are a powerful leading indicator.
I'll also remind you that you can never really be "right" in any notable way about predicting a first round QB doesn't become a franchise player. It isn't a special enough prediction to be right about. It's like predicting it will snow in December in Michigan - overwhelmingly likely. Nice try though.
2023 Chicago Bears... emerging from a long hibernation, and hungry!
