Sanborn to get more reps

[RichH55]

I'm genuinely curious why you are so upset about replacing Roquan with essentially the same level of play, in addition to being at an exponentially cheaper price, plus more or less also getting a potential #1 WR in the process.

And you know all of this after three games?

Every game Roquon was good - you'd ignore the bad games. So 3 games should be WAY more than you need to overreact

[malk]

15 tackles against the Jets. That should make him worth $30m per year on the Roquan scale right? (I kid, I kid).

You're not going to get 2020 Smith from him but then Smith might not repeat that year where his yards given up per target was 3.7. Can Sanborn improve from his current 8 down to the 6 that Smith regularly got? The obvious comparison is Sanborn now to Smith's rookie year but that's complicated by the Bears having a league best defence in 2018 but still:

Coverage is an advantage to Smith

Smith:
73.2 cmp %
9.8 y/cmp
7.2 y/tgt

Sanborn
81.8 cmp%
9.9 y/cmp
8.1 y/tgt

Pass Rush is a wash:

Smith 4 hurries, 0 knockdowns, 5 sacks and 9 pressures in 880 snaps. Totalling 18 qb influences in 880 snaps.
Sanborn 0 hurries, 1 knockdown, 2 sacks and 3 pressures in 235 snaps so far. 6 QB influences in 235 snaps.

Tackles are an advantage to Sanborn.

Smith 121 made in 880 snaps. So 1 tackle per 7.3 snaps.
9.7% missed.

Sanborn 48 made in 235 snaps. So 1 tackle per 4.9 snaps.
4.0% missed.

So plenty to be excited about. In the end I don't think pass rush really matters and tackling will end up the same. I doubt Sanborn will ever be as good as Smith in coverage *BUT* I think that's a good thing! Being an elite coverage linebacker compared to a decent one just isn't worth paying for. I hope Sanborn is a 10 year starter that holds down the position to a high level without being flashy elite. Absolutely ideal imo if he gets to that.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

malk, I'm not sure how helpful it is to compare Smith's rookie year with Sanborn's given, as you acknowledged, the huge disparity between the quality of the defenses they were playing in. One was the best in the league the other is one of the worst.

Also you have to be a little careful with the stats. These for example:

Pass Rush is a wash:

Smith 4 hurries, 0 knockdowns, 5 sacks and 9 pressures in 880 snaps. Totalling 18 qb influences in 880 snaps.
Sanborn 0 hurries, 1 knockdown, 2 sacks and 3 pressures in 235 snaps so far. 6 QB influences in 235 snaps.

Pro Football Reference, which is where I assume you got the stats from, totals hurries, knockdowns and sacks as pressures. (It's an understandable mistake to make because 'pressures' doesn't usually include sacks when the term is used.)

So the correct figures are:

Smith: 4 hurries, 0 knockdowns and 5 sacks totals 9 pressures in 880 snaps.
Sanborn: 0 hurries, 1 knockdown and 2 sacks totals 3 pressures in 235 snaps.

On the previous page there's a clip of Sanborn blitzing and knocking the RB right back into the QBs face, which I would class as a 'hurry'. I wonder if they classed it as the knockdown?

Also, with the pass coverage stats Smith was targeted 82 times as a rookie whereas so far Sanborn has only been targeted 11 times (in a little over a quarter as many snaps). So Sanborn is being targeted roughly half has often as Smith was as a rookie. There could multiple reasons for this including:

• Teams having more success running the ball so they're throwing less, particularly those short 'extension of the running game' type passes.

• The pass rush and secondary this year being so awful that teams are throwing deeper more often.

• Sanborn covering well leading to QBs targeting other options.

Regardless, it's still very early days for Sanborn. I'm just enjoying the fact that he's playing very well and looks at the very least to be a quality starter. It's one less position that needs filling next year.

[RichH55]

When someone calls him a "pussy" and "Sloquan" and rips on nearly every single play he makes during the live chat....yea, someone hated him. That someone's name is G08. I can call him out because he's man enough to take it in stride. His hatred of Roquan rivals only my love of the Queen.

Yep. This happens every game in Discord. Along with the donning of wax lips and knee pads to praise His Greatness Sanborn. Then also the references to Metallica for Enter Sanborn or whatever.

I missed the "Enter Sanborn"

That's gold - the Bears need to use that honestly

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

This all 22 video is all I need to see. He is a technically proficient LB who scrapes and sheds EXTREMELY well with near perfect tackling form. His side to side quickness is elite, which was indicated by his 3-cone and shuttle times. He is in the right place at the right time, and is good in coverage. The Bears would be colossally stupid to go out and spend money on a FA MLB, or draft one, when they have so many other holes to fill. To say that the defensive drop-off, and increase in points, happened just because we traded Roquan is viewing the Bears defense in a vacuum. We had other injuries, during the same time that impacted our ability to cover receivers. Overall the numbers speak for themselves. If Jack Sanborn was a 3rd round pick, you'd be jumping up and down at the value you got on day two.

[Shadow]

Pass coverage was the knock on Kwiatkowski too. He is still in the League. I think Sanborn will be a solid MLB for the Bears and will only get better over time.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

To say that the defensive drop-off, and increase in points, happened just because we traded Roquan is viewing the Bears defense in a vacuum. We had other injuries, during the same time that impacted our ability to cover receivers. Overall the numbers speak for themselves.

As I mentioned previously, the relative strength of the offenses faced has to be considered too. Here's that same list reformatted in descending order of points conceded and whether Smith or Sanborn was starting:

49 against the Cowboys (currently 7th in PPG) - Smith
31 against the Lions (currently 8th in PPG) - Sanborn
31 against the Jets (currently 20th in PPG) -Sanborn
29 against the Vikings (currently 12th in PPG) - Smith
28 against the Dolphins (currently 6th in PPG) - Sanborn (the other 7 came on a blocked punt.)
27 against the Packers (currently ranked 23rd in PPG) - Smith
20 against the Falcons (currently 14th in PPG) - Sanborn (the other 7 came on a kick off return.)
20 against the Giants (22nd in PPG) - Smith
20 against the Texans (currently ranked 31st in PPG) - Smith
14 against the Patriots (currently 18th in PPG) - Smith
12 against the Commanders (currently 24th in PPG) - Smith
10 against the 49ers (currently ranked 15th in PPG) - Smith

Look at where the offenses rank in PPG.

In games where the Bears defense conceded more than 20 points, Smith started 3 and Sanborn started 3. The defense with Smith faced teams ranked 7th 12th and 23rd. The defense with Sanborn faced teams ranked 6th, 8th and 20th.

Every game where the Bears held the opposition to 20 points or fewer they faced an offense ranked 14th or lower. All but one of those was with Smith.

I'm not suggesting strength of offense is the only factor in the defense giving up more points in recent games, injuries is certainly another and perhaps losing Smith is too, but it is certainly a factor. It's hardly surprising that a defense would struggle more against better offenses and, with the exception of the Jets where they were absent 3 of the starters in the secondary, that's what they have faced since Smith was traded.

[Boris13c]

I am satisfied we have a new young LB who seems to have the desire and ability to be all over the place, and as he gets more experience, that level of hustle will have even more impact. Happy he is on the team and am happy to accept him without the need to compare him to those not on the team.

Rock on Mr. Sanborn.

[The Marshall Plan]

Lou Canellis is doing a segment about Sanborn during the Fox Bears pre-game show.

I mean seriously, what has this guy done?

It's getting to be a touch much for me now with this.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Lou Canellis is doing a segment about Sanborn during the Fox Bears pre-game show.

I mean seriously, what has this guy done?

Um, played really well?

[Boris13c]

Lou Canellis is doing a segment about Sanborn during the Fox Bears pre-game show.

I mean seriously, what has this guy done?

It's getting to be a touch much for me now with this.

take a deep breath and simply enjoy a new bright spot on the defense

no one is saying he will be the next Dick Butkus ... it is simply an appreciation for a guy who hustles his ass off every time he is on the field and someone who could blossom into a true guy on the defense ... or he could flame out and disappear ... too soon to tell ... so just smile and enjoy his efforts as a small bright spot during a dark Bears season

[o-pus #40 in B major]

Don't blame Sanborn for Roquan's departure.

[wab]

Don't blame Sanborn for Roquan's departure.

Or for simply being (seemingly) pretty good.

[Atkins&Rebel]

I mean as a Bears fan, I'm ecstatic that we avoided overpaying at a position where a seemingly "ham an' egger" guy was able to step in and get similar production for a fraction of the cost.
I honestly don't get why that would be a point of angst for fans.

[Moriarty]

Lou Canellis is doing a segment about Sanborn during the Fox Bears pre-game show.

I mean seriously, what has this guy done?

This season was purely about developing young prospects while fixing the cap situation, taking lumps, and getting a good draft slot.

Let's check the scorecard on the young talent development, excluding Fields:


Braxton Jones - mixed/inconsclusive
Teven Jenkins - not as good (yet) as people make out, but pretty good
Larry Borom - Major downturn. Poor play and concussion history growing.
Leatherwood - They're terrified of sending him out. Looks like they're waiting for preseason games.
Lucas Patrick - bomb
J'Tyre Carter - Hasn't even played yet
Zach Thomas - Didn't play, then poached
Doug Kramer - Nothing exciting early, then hurt
Pringle - big disappointment so far
Mooney - was on pace for 700 yds before possibly serious injury
Harry - flop
ESB - flop
VJJ - big disappointment so far
Kmet - some people talking like this is a breakout season, except...he got 600 yds last year and is on pace for 450 this
Herbert - great runner, bad blocker
Ebner - bad in brief opportunity
Evans - good in brief opportunity
Muhammed - meh
Morrow - meh
Trevis Gipson - disappointing
Dom Robinson - has a long way to go, after all
Sanborn - freebie playing like a solid starter, and still has 3 cheap years left
Brisker - playing well (although you expect that when you take a SS in R2)
Gordon - getting experience, but not showing well so far
Jaylon Jones - bleah
Vildor - a little better



That's 3 successes - 2 are R2 picks and 1 undrafted
Who else should they be talking about?

[dave99]

According to PFF:

Bears LB Jack Sanborn racked up 14 tackles, including five defensive stops, to lead all defenders in the game. Sanborn was targeted six times in coverage and allowed only four catches for 23 yards, with only one of those resulting in a first down.

[dplank]

Sanborn has won me over, I’m in

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Sanborn has won me over, I’m in

And for good reason...

[wab]

I noticed him taking out those blockers on the screen and I actually stood up, pointed at my TV, and asked the zero people in my living room - DID YOU SEE THAT!?

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I think Darryngton Evans has developed too

[dplank]

I think Darryngton Evans has developed too

Good call - he is WAY better than Ebner. Definitely should be in our backfield next season.

[malk]

malk, I'm not sure how helpful it is to compare Smith's rookie year with Sanborn's given, as you acknowledged, the huge disparity between the quality of the defenses they were playing in. One was the best in the league the other is one of the worst.

Also you have to be a little careful with the stats. These for example:

Pass Rush is a wash:

Smith 4 hurries, 0 knockdowns, 5 sacks and 9 pressures in 880 snaps. Totalling 18 qb influences in 880 snaps.
Sanborn 0 hurries, 1 knockdown, 2 sacks and 3 pressures in 235 snaps so far. 6 QB influences in 235 snaps.

Pro Football Reference, which is where I assume you got the stats from, totals hurries, knockdowns and sacks as pressures. (It's an understandable mistake to make because 'pressures' doesn't usually include sacks when the term is used.)

So the correct figures are:

Smith: 4 hurries, 0 knockdowns and 5 sacks totals 9 pressures in 880 snaps.
Sanborn: 0 hurries, 1 knockdown and 2 sacks totals 3 pressures in 235 snaps.

On the previous page there's a clip of Sanborn blitzing and knocking the RB right back into the QBs face, which I would class as a 'hurry'. I wonder if they classed it as the knockdown?

Also, with the pass coverage stats Smith was targeted 82 times as a rookie whereas so far Sanborn has only been targeted 11 times (in a little over a quarter as many snaps). So Sanborn is being targeted roughly half has often as Smith was as a rookie. There could multiple reasons for this including:

• Teams having more success running the ball so they're throwing less, particularly those short 'extension of the running game' type passes.

• The pass rush and secondary this year being so awful that teams are throwing deeper more often.

• Sanborn covering well leading to QBs targeting other options.

Regardless, it's still very early days for Sanborn. I'm just enjoying the fact that he's playing very well and looks at the very least to be a quality starter. It's one less position that needs filling next year.

That's fair on the difference in defences played in (I mentioned it in my post!). And good spot on the pressures from PFR though it doesn't make any difference to the comparison except to further highlight it isn't a big deal for their positions.

But overall the sample sizes are too small along with the stated differences/uncertainties. I just wanted to give a little flavour to show they weren't vastly different at that point.

[Grizzled]

Sanborn has played himself into being the starter this year and succeeding ones. But I'm tired of the comparisons I read between him and Urlacher (really?) and him and Roquan. He's playing very solidly, has a great nose for the ball, wraps guys up. If I compare him to anyone, it would be Samurai.

[wab]

Sanborn has played himself into being the starter this year and succeeding ones. But I'm tired of the comparisons I read between him and Urlacher (really?) and him and Roquan. He's playing very solidly, has a great nose for the ball, wraps guys up. If I compare him to anyone, it would be Samurai.

Let's get through a season before we compare him to HOFers like 50 and 54. I think he's a solid player...somewhere between Hunter Hillenmeyer and Barry Minter.

[Grizzled]

Sanborn has played himself into being the starter this year and succeeding ones. But I'm tired of the comparisons I read between him and Urlacher (really?) and him and Roquan. He's playing very solidly, has a great nose for the ball, wraps guys up. If I compare him to anyone, it would be Samurai.

Let's get through a season before we compare him to HOFers like 50 and 54. I think he's a solid player...somewhere between Hunter Hillenmeyer and Barry Minter.

I'm not saying he's in that class yet. Just style of play, feriousness, etc.

[dplank]

But does he have as many forced fumbles as Leonard? lol....

Seriously, what I like about Sanborn is how stout he is. I use that word a lot, but because it means a lot to my player evaluation. When looking at Front 7 guys on defense and Front 5 + TE guys on offense, I VERY much prefer guys who can take on an opposing player and stonewall them man on man. Having that built in advantage makes the other player(s) have to scheme to win cause they can't just beat you heads up. So I'll take Dick Butkus over Ray Lewis, both of whom I consider the greatest to ever play MLB - but I lean Butkus because he horsed people out there where Lewis won mostly with speed.

Sanborn is a beast, some commentator yesterday talked about his neck size - he basically has no neck, just a square head planted directly to his shoulders lol...Roquan, as much as I loved him, is a speed guy and I always struggled a bit with that. Sanborn is wrecking plays out there, I'm thoroughly impressed and hope it continues. He looks like a long term starter to me, and I didn't WANT to like him because I was tying in the Roquan argument to that unnecessarily. Now that he's a Raven, it took me about two weeks and I'm over it. Emotional intelligence took over, even if a few weeks late to the party.

[Arkansasbear]

Sanborn has played himself into being the starter this year and succeeding ones. But I'm tired of the comparisons I read between him and Urlacher (really?) and him and Roquan. He's playing very solidly, has a great nose for the ball, wraps guys up. If I compare him to anyone, it would be Samurai.

Let's get through a season before we compare him to HOFers like 50 and 54. I think he's a solid player...somewhere between Hunter Hillenmeyer and Barry Minter.

It is a small sample size, but I think that is likely his floor. He was a guy I liked a lot pre-draft. He is simply a football player who makes plays and plays smart. His like of speed in today's game could make his ceiling not be much higher than that. If so he is still a great asset to the team. If he can increase from that level, he will end up being a steal. But that's all potential. Much like this team had the potential to shock "the experts" and make the playoffs.

[dave99]

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... s-a-steal/

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

It's just so much fun to see a young player be given an opportunity. A player that was looked over and forgotten in the draft. Gets his opportunity and absolutely shines. So much fun to watch.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Let's get through a season before we compare him to HOFers like 50 and 54. I think he's a solid player...somewhere between Hunter Hillenmeyer and Barry Minter.

It is a small sample size, but I think that is likely his floor. He was a guy I liked a lot pre-draft. He is simply a football player who makes plays and plays smart. His like of speed in today's game could make his ceiling not be much higher than that. If so he is still a great asset to the team. If he can increase from that level, he will end up being a steal. But that's all potential. Much like this team had the potential to shock "the experts" and make the playoffs.

I'm not sure why everyone wants to criticize his speed. His 40 yard dash left something to be desired, but LB's aren't supposed to run 40 yards. They run 15-20 yards tops, if they are in the right place when the ball is snapped. To that point, Sanborn's shuttle and 3-cone time were considered elite. An RAS score well over 9. His burst is impressive, even more so because he almost always takes an optimal path to the ball carrier. Even if his ceiling is only 15-20% higher. That's still a MLB you can feel good about on Sundays. Get the right WILL in this scheme and he will shine even brighter.