Week 12 // Bears (3-8) @ NY Jets (6-4)

[mmmc_35]

If you're fine with Justin Fields having a short, semi-successful career with the Chicago Bears, then that's your opinion, and hard to argue against.

I want Fields to be a franchise QB.

This is the most important thing that needs to happen in the past 35 years of this franchise's history. JF1 is our Luke Skywalker (the cool one from Episodes 4 through 6) and if he's lost to the Emperor we lose the war.

Fields cannot be Dusty Baker'd into being ruined by overuse early on in his career.

But here's the rub.

Fields can't be faulted for running out there. Unfortunately quite a bit of that is because he's running for his life.

In order to ensure that he's the QB at 35 years old and not Cam Newton, there is literally no other choice than to massively upgrade his supporting cast.

What if this type of scheme is where justin can peek professionally? I guess I'll use the afore mentioned Cam Newton as the example.

What if that's his peak. Cam Newton. Career over at 32. In that career he saw the apex of the mountain but never crossed it.

Fields hasn't been a great passer. I get it there are a lot of reasons. Say likely or not he improves a biy, but the team improves more. Say his career mimics Newton.

Is that something at this time we are all okay with?

[The Marshall Plan]

This is the most important thing that needs to happen in the past 35 years of this franchise's history. JF1 is our Luke Skywalker (the cool one from Episodes 4 through 6) and if he's lost to the Emperor we lose the war.

Fields cannot be Dusty Baker'd into being ruined by overuse early on in his career.

But here's the rub.

Fields can't be faulted for running out there. Unfortunately quite a bit of that is because he's running for his life.

In order to ensure that he's the QB at 35 years old and not Cam Newton, there is literally no other choice than to massively upgrade his supporting cast.

What if this type of scheme is where justin can peek professionally? I guess I'll use the afore mentioned Cam Newton as the example.

What if that's his peak. Cam Newton. Career over at 32. In that career he saw the apex of the mountain but never crossed it.

Fields hasn't been a great passer. I get it there are a lot of reasons. Say likely or not he improves a biy, but the team improves more. Say his career mimics Newton.

Is that something at this time we are all okay with?

Maybe that’s true.

But he is the prized asset. My preference would be to have him around in his 30s instead of looking for a new QB in five years. If we can remove the part of his game where he’s running for his life by upgrading the OL and the WRs then we’ll be able to achieve that.

I do think JF1 is a great passer. He makes any kind of throw asked of him. He has all the abilities in the world to be a top 5 QB.

Just to clarify, I am not saying force him to be a pocket passer. What I am saying is increase his passing by eliminating the running for his life aspect of his game. JF1’s dual threat ability is a strength not a weakness but the running needs to be moderated. Some of that is on Getsy too.

[Grizzled]

For comparison to other QBs considered mobile:

Lamar Jackson has averaged approximately 11 carries per game

Cam Newton averaged approximately 8 carries per game in his career

Russell Wilson has averaged approximately 5 carries per game

Jalen Hurts has averaged approximately 8 carries per game

Josh Allen has averaged approximately 7 carries per game

Patrick Mahomes has averaged approximately 4 carries per game

Where on the spectrum should JF reside?

[wab]

For comparison to other QBs considered mobile:

Lamar Jackson has averaged approximately 11 carries per game

Cam Newton averaged approximately 8 carries per game in his career

Russell Wilson has averaged approximately 5 carries per game

Jalen Hurts has averaged approximately 8 carries per game

Josh Allen has averaged approximately 7 carries per game

Patrick Mahomes has averaged approximately 4 carries per game

Where on the spectrum should JF reside?

The style of play factors in as well. Fields is like Newton (and Allen to an extent) in that he is going to try to run you over.

But I think I'd prefer him to be in the 6-8 range.

[thunderspirit]

For comparison to other QBs considered mobile:

Lamar Jackson has averaged approximately 11 carries per game

Cam Newton averaged approximately 8 carries per game in his career

Russell Wilson has averaged approximately 5 carries per game

Jalen Hurts has averaged approximately 8 carries per game

Josh Allen has averaged approximately 7 carries per game

Patrick Mahomes has averaged approximately 4 carries per game

Where on the spectrum should JF reside?

The style of play factors in as well. Fields is like Newton (and Allen to an extent) in that he is going to try to run you over.

But I think I'd prefer him to be in the 6-8 range.

Yeah, Jalen Hurts-esque seems to be a good spot.

[Grizzled]

For comparison to other QBs considered mobile:

Lamar Jackson has averaged approximately 11 carries per game

Cam Newton averaged approximately 8 carries per game in his career

Russell Wilson has averaged approximately 5 carries per game

Jalen Hurts has averaged approximately 8 carries per game

Josh Allen has averaged approximately 7 carries per game

Patrick Mahomes has averaged approximately 4 carries per game

Where on the spectrum should JF reside?

The style of play factors in as well. Fields is like Newton (and Allen to an extent) in that he is going to try to run you over.

But I think I'd prefer him to be in the 6-8 range.

I agree. I think his number of rushes wlil go down as he's better able to read and process the field and gets rid of the ball quicker rather than pulling it down and running.

[Arkansasbear]

For comparison to other QBs considered mobile:

Lamar Jackson has averaged approximately 11 carries per game

Cam Newton averaged approximately 8 carries per game in his career

Russell Wilson has averaged approximately 5 carries per game

Jalen Hurts has averaged approximately 8 carries per game

Josh Allen has averaged approximately 7 carries per game

Patrick Mahomes has averaged approximately 4 carries per game

Where on the spectrum should JF reside?

I don't recall the exact numbers but early in their careers both Jackson and Allen (maybe Cam as well I can't recall) had an average number of carries per game that was just a tick below what Fields has at this point. I try and find it.

[wab]

I mean Fields has flat out said that if it's man coverage, he's going to run if his first read is covered. If it's zone, he's going to look to get through his progressions.

[EricTighe]

A little flummoxed by the bullshit hostility.

What hostility? You made the assumption that you were older and have been a Bears fan longer than I have been alive? Perhaps you are. What does it matter? We are either Bears fans or we are not.

If you think this is hostility ...... I just leave it alone.

Back to the point. Fields is an amazing athlete and not to run or taking that aspect out of his game would be wasting one hell of a tool he has.
Mathew Staford can't run anymore and yet due to getting hit he is out for the season.
Dak only runs a few times a game and missed 4 games.
Brady never runs and missed a whole season.

Injuries happen and when you try not to get hurt is when you do. Not my words Keshuans and Sharpes.

Let the kid run and his passing game will develop faster enough. He was considered a passer coming into the league unlike most QB's that run.

[dplank]

Grizzled, is that list designed runs or all runs (including scrambles)? And does it include sneaks (no risk there)?

I'm good with the designed runs, but don't want too many of them because he also scrambles a lot off schedule. I absolutely want him to slide and skate out of bounds liberally, leave yards out there if you have to, and only try to run through guys if it's for a critical play in the game.

To Eric's point, QB's get hurt all sorts of ways and pointing to Cam Newton as if it's a guaranteed outcome for Fields is nonsense to me. There are plenty of QB's who ran a lot who had long careers. I still want him to improve as a passer and throw more, but as long as our OL is what it is, he pretty much has to run or risk getting demolished. As TMP said, you can't fault him for running for his life.

[Heinz D.]

JF1 is our Luke Skywalker (the cool one from Episodes 4 through 6) and if he's lost to the Emperor we lose the war.

Love the Star Wars reference...and I've come around to thinking that you're essentially right on this.

I was wrong about Trubisky, for sure. But I don't think I'm wrong about Fields.

Fields cannot be Dusty Baker'd into being ruined by overuse early on in his career.

Don't get the Baker reference, but you're still right!

Fields can't be faulted for running out there. Unfortunately quite a bit of that is because he's running for his life.

I'm...not so sure about your "quite a bit" assessment.

Just look at how Simeien played in NYC, before the deluge hit. Fields is still too tentative, and his decision making is often just terrible. A lot of what's going on rests on Justin's shoulders. But I'm confident he'll get it straightened out.

In order to ensure that he's the QB at 35 years old and not Cam Newton, there is literally no other choice than to massively upgrade his supporting cast.

We're back to total agreement on that one.

Huzzah!

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I didn’t see anything illuminating from Siemean. The ball came out faster during the first quarter and WRs made a few plays for him - I think Fields benefits from seeing that.

Siemian certainly didn't play better than Fields.
But he did do some things better than Fields, which Justin ought to take note of.

The checkdowns to the backs, who made something out of it
And the throws to receivers who weren't wide open and showed they can catch balls with good coverage sometimes
Both of which didn't involve the QB taking brutal punishment

It's no substitute for playing, but Fields did indeed take advantage of the opportunity afforded by watching Siemian last Sunday:

Fields spoke to Getsy on the sideline and Janocko, who was in the coaching box, on the phone. They broke down what was going well for Siemian — and what wasn’t.
...

Asked if one play stood out, Fields picked a subtle decision Siemian made. In the first quarter, Siemian checked down to running back Darrynton Evans.

“Just how fast he got to it was very notable to me,” Fields said.

Evans caught the ball only two yards past the line of scrimmage but turned upfield and eventually was tackled along the right sideline after 33 yards.

“All those moments are important — that he can gather from whoever’s playing,” Getsy said. “You went one hitch, he wasn’t there and he got right down to his checkdown. And it turned into an explosive [play].”

The Bears have been focused all year on trying to make sure Fields improves every game. Last week, that development came on the sideline.
...

“The film-room sessions have been really good,” Getsy said. “He was locked in last week. He did a great job with that. He’s locked in again.

“We’ve just got to make sure we continue to progress, and he’s got to continue to develop. He’s got to continue to get these experiences so that we can continue to learn from them. He can grow.”

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022 ... n-peterman

[Heinz D.]

What if this type of scheme is where justin can peek professionally? I guess I'll use the afore mentioned Cam Newton as the example.

What if that's his peak. Cam Newton. Career over at 32. In that career he saw the apex of the mountain but never crossed it.

Fields hasn't been a great passer. I get it there are a lot of reasons. Say likely or not he improves a biy, but the team improves more. Say his career mimics Newton.

Is that something at this time we are all okay with?

Justin Fields threw 6 touchdown passes in a college football playoff game--when he had broken ribs.

Beyond that--Fields was, in general, a FAR better passer in college than Newton. I mean, the comparison isn't even close.

So, no, I will not be happy if his career mimics Newton's. As he is. probably, a much better quarterback than Cam could ever hope to be.

I mean Fields has flat out said that if it's man coverage, he's going to run if his first read is covered. If it's zone, he's going to look to get through his progressions.

Yeah...that shit has to stop. Like, yesterday.

To Eric's point, QB's get hurt all sorts of ways and pointing to Cam Newton as if it's a guaranteed outcome for Fields is nonsense to me. There are plenty of QB's who ran a lot who had long careers.

15 carries/game?

Tell me who those QBs are, please...

[The Marshall Plan]

JF1 is our Luke Skywalker (the cool one from Episodes 4 through 6) and if he's lost to the Emperor we lose the war.

Love the Star Wars reference...and I've come around to thinking that you're essentially right on this.

I was wrong about Trubisky, for sure. But I don't think I'm wrong about Fields.

Fields cannot be Dusty Baker'd into being ruined by overuse early on in his career.

Don't get the Baker reference, but you're still right!

Fields can't be faulted for running out there. Unfortunately quite a bit of that is because he's running for his life.

I'm...not so sure about your "quite a bit" assessment.

Just look at how Simeien played in NYC, before the deluge hit. Fields is still too tentative, and his decision making is often just terrible. A lot of what's going on rests on Justin's shoulders. But I'm confident he'll get it straightened out.

In order to ensure that he's the QB at 35 years old and not Cam Newton, there is literally no other choice than to massively upgrade his supporting cast.

We're back to total agreement on that one.

Huzzah!

Dusty Baker was the manager of the Chicago Cubs back in 2003 and they made it to the NLCS against the Florida Marlins.

The Cubs had two stud starting pitchers in a very young Mark Prior and then an injury prone Kerry Wood.

Baker rode those two arms into the playoffs and then into the NLCS by having them throw a huge amount of pitches. The Cubs wound up losing the 2003 NLCS anyway.

Afterwards, Mark Prior and Kerry Wood were never the same again. IMHO, Dusty Baker overpitched them and ruined their careers as a result although Wood had some problems before that.

So what I'm saying with Getsy and Fields is to moderate the running so Fields can be the QB here for a long time.

Then with Fields running we have:

1) Specifically designed plays for Fields to run. This is 100% Getsy's fault.
2) JF1 not having the self confidence or experience to see a passing opportunity so he takes off and runs. This is JF1's fault.
3) The supporting cast failing and either WRs not getting open or OL for being a turnstile and JF1 gets rushed. This is Poles' fault for building a shitty team.

Fields can control the second one. The other two are on other people.

[mmmc_35]

What if this type of scheme is where justin can peek professionally? I guess I'll use the afore mentioned Cam Newton as the example.

What if that's his peak. Cam Newton. Career over at 32. In that career he saw the apex of the mountain but never crossed it.

Fields hasn't been a great passer. I get it there are a lot of reasons. Say likely or not he improves a biy, but the team improves more. Say his career mimics Newton.

Is that something at this time we are all okay with?

Justin Fields threw 6 touchdown passes in a college football playoff game--when he had broken ribs.

Beyond that--Fields was, in general, a FAR better passer in college than Newton. I mean, the comparison isn't even close.

So, no, I will not be happy if his career mimics Newton's. As he is. probably, a much better quarterback than Cam could ever hope to be.

He has more skills as a passer I agree. I dont think your college example holds a ton of weight. There are plenty of great college qobs who dont do shit in the nfl.

So yes he has more physical ability to be a passer then Newton. I cant say we have seen sustained passing success. Newton averaged 3500 yards a season. Fields hasn't been close. I think we can all point fingers to reasons for that.

Honestly I would be happy if Fields career mimics Newtons. Hopefully he wins that big one.

[RichH55]

Justin Fields threw 6 touchdown passes in a college football playoff game--when he had broken ribs.

Beyond that--Fields was, in general, a FAR better passer in college than Newton. I mean, the comparison isn't even close.

So, no, I will not be happy if his career mimics Newton's. As he is. probably, a much better quarterback than Cam could ever hope to be.

He has more skills as a passer I agree. I dont think your college example holds a ton of weight. There are plenty of great college qobs who dont do shit in the nfl.

So yes he has more physical ability to be a passer then Newton. I cant say we have seen sustained passing success. Newton averaged 3500 yards a season. Fields hasn't been close. I think we can all point fingers to reasons for that.

Honestly I would be happy if Fields career mimics Newtons. Hopefully he wins that big one.

We are comparing superlative athletes to be sure mind you.

But Body Type wise - Cam Newton is a bunch bigger and heavier than Fields. Fields isnt Kyler Murray size either (and faster than Cam) - But the battering ram style fits the body type of a guy like Cam more than a guy like Fields

[dplank]

This is factually untrue, not sure why you keep repeating it. Cam is a few inches taller (6’5 vs 6’2) but Fields height to body weight ratio actually makes him more stout than Cam as he weighs almost as much. And height is a detriment, not a positive, for a battering ram type. Shorter and heavier is what you want. You want to be compact. Bad take.

[RichH55]

This is factually untrue, not sure why you keep repeating it. Cam is a few inches taller (6’5 vs 6’2) but Fields height to body weight ratio actually makes him more stout than Cam as he weighs almost as much. And height is a detriment, not a positive, for a battering ram type. Shorter and heavier is what you want. You want to be compact. Bad take.

Well most places have Fields at 6'3 (or at least 6'2 and change)- but make up what you want.

If you can't see the body type differences with your eyes - you are doing it wrong. Might be time to get the old Ben Franklin specs updated.

Cam was markedly bigger than Fields - and my guess - is that his playing weight was a bit e ven heavier than what was listed (SPECULATION - but based on reality) which was 248 BTW. 20 Pounds is pretty darn big difference

Based on your calculations - I guess that DK Metcalf and Kennan Allen are Similar Body Types? Metcalf outweighs him by 20-24 Pounds!! BUT HES 2 INCHES TALLER!!! (Based on Wiki - and it was the first Dplank Comp that came to mind - but they ALL are gonna be like that. 20 Pounds is a sizeable difference)

If anyone thinks Fields is a similar body type to Cam Newton - they are doing it very wrong.

I know you wanted to disagree with me - But make pick your battle grounds more prudently

[RichH55]

Fields is way way more similar to a RGIII than Cam Newton size wise - and even then its not an ideal size comp because Fields is bigger

Cam is a comp for Josh Allen.

Fields its more Lamar Jackson

But yes - despite what anyones wives tells them - 2 Inches and 20+ Pounds is gonna make a difference

[Middleguard]

Sorry this is late. I had everything computed on time but was hesitant to post it because it seemed that some predictions had been made after the game had already started.
Then I completely forgot that it was still waiting until I was preparing to post the Packers results.

Your scores for game 12:
2 HisRoyalSweetness
18 otis / WagonForce
56 dplank
74 Mikefive
78 Middleguard
98 dave99
152 artbest01
158 Moriarty
162 IE
186 AZ_Bearfan / Hema2.0
294 pus / Grizzled
326 Atkins&Rebel
366 Otis Day
378 RichH55
438 Noots
450 UOK
494 G08 / Bears Whiskey Nut Tied, Ha
536 Z Bear
542 wab
558 crueltyabc
936 spudbear
992 The Marshall Plan
1208 Boris13c
1586 The Grizzly One
3768 Ditka's dictaphone
5954 Arkansasbear

Duplicate predictions
186 LacertineForest
294 mmmc_35

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

I tied with that sheep lover?? Son of a...

Just kidding G08. Give us a kiss...

[HisRoyalSweetness]

When G08 sees that gif he'll be typing his retort one-handed!

[Boris13c]

When G08 sees that gif he'll be typing his retort one-handed!

[Heinz D.]

He has more skills as a passer I agree. I dont think your college example holds a ton of weight. There are plenty of great college qobs who dont do shit in the nfl.

So yes he has more physical ability to be a passer then Newton. I cant say we have seen sustained passing success. Newton averaged 3500 yards a season. Fields hasn't been close. I think we can all point fingers to reasons for that.

Honestly I would be happy if Fields career mimics Newtons. Hopefully he wins that big one.

I get where you're coming from--in a general sense. To claim Newton had very little success isn't right.

So while I think, as Bears fans, we'd HAVE to be thrilled with Fields having Newton's career...to me, there is a legitimate chance for him to be so much more.

[The Marshall Plan]

He has more skills as a passer I agree. I dont think your college example holds a ton of weight. There are plenty of great college qobs who dont do shit in the nfl.

So yes he has more physical ability to be a passer then Newton. I cant say we have seen sustained passing success. Newton averaged 3500 yards a season. Fields hasn't been close. I think we can all point fingers to reasons for that.

Honestly I would be happy if Fields career mimics Newtons. Hopefully he wins that big one.

I get where you're coming from--in a general sense. To claim Newton had very little success isn't right.

So while I think, as Bears fans, we'd HAVE to be thrilled with Fields having Newton's career...to me, there is a legitimate chance for him to be so much more.

BINGO!

Compare and contrast the early Jordan years to the mid-to-late career years.

The GOAT Of GOATs could fly like an F-15 early on, but then those Pistons games and Father Time took their toll. He then developed a lethal mid-range jumper and turnaround jumper. Then he went from simply being the best player in the league to a human cheat code and that's a huge reason why he wound up with 6 rings and 6 Finals MVPs.

MJ couldn't have charged the basket letting Rick Mahorn, Bill Laimbeer and Dennis Rodman or those Pat Riley Knicks teams knock him into the third row for 10 years.

[dplank]

You guys have me fired up!

I’m calling my shot now: Justin Fields 2023 NFL MVP

[The Marshall Plan]

You guys have me fired up!

I’m calling my shot now: Justin Fields 2023 NFL MVP

Fucking A.

[Heinz D.]

Compare and contrast the early Jordan years to the mid-to-late career years.

The GOAT Of GOATs could fly like an F-15 early on, but then those Pistons games and Father Time took their toll. He then developed a lethal mid-range jumper and turnaround jumper. Then he went from simply being the best player in the league to a human cheat code and that's a huge reason why he wound up with 6 rings and 6 Finals MVPs.

MJ couldn't have charged the basket letting Rick Mahorn, Bill Laimbeer and Dennis Rodman or those Pat Riley Knicks teams knock him into the third row for 10 years.

That's a pretty sweet analogy, when you think about it...

[Sugashane]

I get where you're coming from--in a general sense. To claim Newton had very little success isn't right.

So while I think, as Bears fans, we'd HAVE to be thrilled with Fields having Newton's career...to me, there is a legitimate chance for him to be so much more.

BINGO!

Compare and contrast the early Jordan years to the mid-to-late career years.

The GOAT Of GOATs could fly like an F-15 early on, but then those Pistons games and Father Time took their toll. He then developed a lethal mid-range jumper and turnaround jumper. Then he went from simply being the best player in the league to a human cheat code and that's a huge reason why he wound up with 6 rings and 6 Finals MVPs.

MJ couldn't have charged the basket letting Rick Mahorn, Bill Laimbeer and Dennis Rodman or those Pat Riley Knicks teams knock him into the third row for 10 years.

This is a great point, and something I said on another board mimics this.

I have zero issue with running Fields 10-15 times a game. He is an elite athlete and running 15 sprints a week isn't going to hurt him or wear him down, it is the CONTACTS that do. Several of those runs will be him avoiding sacks where he is taking hits in an unprotected position too. The collisions with other 200lb athletes has way more shearing force on his body than anything he can do while sprinting, especially when he is trying to truck someone. That and taking 4 sacks per game when he can barely brace for impact, those to are what can shorten his career. I want them to work with him on sliding, even if you need to bring in a baseball coach to work with him and drill it into him. IDC. If Fields sees open grass ahead of him, sprint and don't look back. But if he gets the first down or gets near it and it isn't 3rd down, then slide or get out of bounds. Be conservative with your body because that one first down in week 3 in the 2nd quarter isn't near as important as 4th and goal or a postseason game. They need to get him to understand that every play has a weight of importance, and most of them aren't going to be worth him risking a big shot. If he runs 15 times then I don't want him getting tackled on 10 of them, just get some yards to put the offense in better position or get the first and get down before getting hit.

Fields is a warrior for a QB so that likely will be a pain in the ass to try and get through to him, but he is obviously smart enough it will be an easy concept IMO. Just getting it to become a "natural" reaction in the game is going to be rough.

[Heinz D.]

I have zero issue with running Fields 10-15 times a game.

Well, the thing is, you should...

He is an elite athlete and running 15 sprints a week isn't going to hurt him or wear him down, it is the CONTACTS that do. Several of those runs will be him avoiding sacks where he is taking hits in an unprotected position too. The collisions with other 200lb athletes has way more shearing force on his body than anything he can do while sprinting, especially when he is trying to truck someone. That and taking 4 sacks per game when he can barely brace for impact, those to are what can shorten his career. I want them to work with him on sliding, even if you need to bring in a baseball coach to work with him and drill it into him. IDC. If Fields sees open grass ahead of him, sprint and don't look back. But if he gets the first down or gets near it and it isn't 3rd down, then slide or get out of bounds. Be conservative with your body because that one first down in week 3 in the 2nd quarter isn't near as important as 4th and goal or a postseason game. They need to get him to understand that every play has a weight of importance, and most of them aren't going to be worth him risking a big shot. If he runs 15 times then I don't want him getting tackled on 10 of them, just get some yards to put the offense in better position or get the first and get down before getting hit.

Yeah, the contact is the main problem. That's the rub. The thing is, Fields can't see everything around him all the time, so there's always some risk of a fast stud (Jamaal Adams, say) making a spectacular play and laying Fields out.

But, I get what you're saying there, I think we all do, and of course you're essentially right in what you're saying. The thing is, if he's going to continue to scramble a lot (and let's face it, he's even scrambled, at times, when his protection was good)...then Getsy basically has to scrap the notion of a "package" of designed runs for Fields.

However...

I think this conversation we're all having has become sort of pointless, now. Why? We'll soon find out if I'm wrong, or not, but IMHO last week was a HUGE game for Fields. He flipped the switch, the lightbulb came on, he put it all together...whatever goofy sports cliche you want to use. What did we see from him? Scrambling, then resetting and delivering the ball down the field. Quicker decision making (he claimed to have learned a lot by watching Siemien the week before, and it sure seemed to me he was telling the truth on that one).

Again, we'll soon find out if I'm wrong--but I having a sneaking suspicion we'll all look back to the December 4th, 2022 game against the Packers as a turning point for Fields. And the franchise.