This is just mean

dplank · Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:12 am

Why do we still have to hear about this? It ruined several careers

Grizzled · Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:56 am

There is an obsession among Chicago sports media to rehash "guys who got away". I've lived all over the U.S., haven't seen it this strong in other places.

Bears Whiskey Nut · Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:57 am

I went to my high school reunion and found out that the girl that I had a total crush on actually liked me, and was upset that I never asked her to the prom.

That actually didn't happen, but is just as probable...and juvenile. Who cares. It's in the past. Move on.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:26 am

Both Pace and Nagy were fired for a variety of reasons, this among them, but let us not forget that these teams needed a QB and had their chance:

Browns - went into 2017 with the quarterback room of DeShone Kizer, Kevin Hogan, and Cody Kessler; they would go 0-16.

Jets - went into 2017 with Christian Hackenburg and Bryce Petty; finished 5-11

Meanwhile, the Browns drafted Garrett (pretty good) and are still in franchise hell. The Jets drafted Jamal Adams (solid) who demanded a trade a couple years later and the Jets are once again in franchise hell. The 49ers took Solomon Thomas who has been a bust. The Titans took WR Corey Davis who has been middling and now plays for the Jets. The Chargers took WR Mike Williams who has developed nicely and may be a career Charger. The Bengals took WR John Ross who is now a fringe practice squad player.

Let's not forget the Bills traded out of the 10th slot of that draft and didn't exactly have a room of world beaters in Tyrod Taylor, Nathan Peterman, and Joe Webb, yet nobody talks about that either.

All anyone wants to talk about FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER is the Bears trading up to take Trubisky. The Bears have finally gotten themselves a QB in Fields and people still, STILL are dwelling on how the Bears missed out on taking Pat Mahomes and traded up to take a bust.

dplank · Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:30 am

Good point, we do Bear the brunt of the league wide “Mahomes miss”. And, to Paces credit, he turned around and got us Fields with a great, aggressive trade up - potentially solving our 100 year QB quandary.

Mikefive · Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:44 am

Trubisky was our Sam Bowie moment.

Kylo Bearen · Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:32 pm

If Chicago drafted Mahomes he wouldn't be the Mahomes that he is now. Last time I check Andy Reid and his offensive acumen Isn't in the Windy City. Nor was KCs front office who was superior to Chi's, at team building. Neither Nagy nor Fox would have made him the player he would become so its a moot point.

bbaker · Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:39 pm

Kylo Bearen wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:32 pm If Chicago drafted Mahomes he wouldn't be the Mahomes that he is now. Last time I check Andy Reid and his offensive acumen Isn't in the Windy City. Nor was KCs front office who was superior to Chi's, at team building. Neither Nagy nor Fox would have made him the player he would become so its a moot point.

^^ THIS.

Fox/Nagy would have ruined Mahomes.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:43 pm

I don't think you can definitively say that he would have been ruined. I get the pessimism, but I don't think it's as absolute as we want to make it seem.

bbaker · Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:10 pm

wab wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:43 pm I don't think you can definitively say that he would have been ruined. I get the pessimism, but I don't think it's as absolute as we want to make it seem.

Of course not. There is very little in the world of untestable hypothetical scenarios that can be stated definitively. It is an opinion, which is all that's even possible in this situation.

Having said that, Fox/Nagy would have DEFINITIVELY ruined Mahomes

Ditka’s dictaphone · Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:25 pm

I’m hoping for the league to make amends for the Mitch trade this off season.

They owe us a ton of picks

The Marshall Plan · Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:27 pm

Mahomes wouldn't have amounted to a hill of shit if McNagy sunk his fry grease covered gloves into him.

Mahomes would've entered the league playing for Fox and Loggains.

Then the coup de grace shows up with McNagy to finish him off.

dplank · Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:39 pm

I feel like we just watched Fields overcome major roster deficiencies and still almost break the all time rushing mark for a QB. Mahomes is so good he may very well have still succeeded here in spite of his surroundings. But make no mistake, stepping in to an Andy Reid offense with Tyreke Hill and Travis Kelce is about as good a situation that a QB could ever ask for.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:07 pm

I mean, Mahomes played for Nagy…. So that argument is a little tainted.

bbaker · Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:39 pm

wab wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:07 pm I mean, Mahomes played for Nagy…. So that argument is a little tainted.

Nagy was there while Mahomes was on the bench. Nagy was the “Offensive Coordinator” under Andy Reid, and was pretty badly exposed once he left Reid’s shadow. Nagy called a few games as OC towards the end of the season (with Alex Smith playing QB) and did a pretty bad job.

Exactly what did Nagy have to do with Mahomes’ success? …after he left? Nagy’s “history” with Mahomes does exactly zero to “taint the argument” (even a little).

artbest01 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:25 am

Nagy WAS Mahomes “oc” during his rookie season (spent learning behind Alex Smith)….

Mahomes’ rookie season would have been under John Fox and Dowell Loggains. He, imo, would have started in place of Mike Glennon ala Trubisky and probably would have had a mercurial year - lots of ints along with multiple wow plays, a ton of yards (for a rookie) and td passes.

Under Nagy, Mahomes wouldn’t be throwing 50 td passes (imo) because he wouldn’t have had Hill and Kelce, but he would have been able to run nagys offense far, far better than Mitch. Mahomes does everything, naturally, at an infinitely higher level than Trubisky other than run fast. Mitch had shown that he’s the same mediocre QB no matter where he plays or who coaches him.

All that said, it is water way under the bridge. Several teams, including and especially Cleveland and San Francisco, missed badly by not drafting Mahomes. Ryan Pace is gone (he’s solely responsible for picking Mitch over Patrick). Lamenting this now is a waste of time and emotion. This is what the bears do - they’ve passed on several qbs over the years - Montana, favre, Rodgers, Mahomes - it’s “tradition”

dplank · Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:00 am

Tradition until now Arthur! Fields is the one

Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:42 am

bbaker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:39 pm
wab wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:07 pm I mean, Mahomes played for Nagy…. So that argument is a little tainted.

Nagy was there while Mahomes was on the bench. Nagy was the “Offensive Coordinator” under Andy Reid, and was pretty badly exposed once he left Reid’s shadow. Nagy called a few games as OC towards the end of the season (with Alex Smith playing QB) and did a pretty bad job.

Exactly what did Nagy have to do with Mahomes’ success? …after he left? Nagy’s “history” with Mahomes does exactly zero to “taint the argument” (even a little).

You are right. I'm sure they never spoke or interacted.

bearsoldier · Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:11 pm

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:57 am I went to my high school reunion and found out that the girl that I had a total crush on actually liked me, and was upset that I never asked her to the prom.

That actually didn't happen, but is just as probable...and juvenile. Who cares. It's in the past. Move on.

HisRoyalSweetness · Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:53 pm

dplank wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:12 am Why do we still have to hear about this? It ruined several careers

A bit of clarity from Patrick Mahomes himself:

Chiefs’ Patrick Mahomes: I thought I was atop Bears’ QB list in 2017

Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes was shocked for two reasons when the Bears traded up to draft quarterback Mitch Trubisky second overall in 2017.

For one, Mahomes said, a third party had assured his camp that he was at the top of the Bears’ quarterback list. And for another, he also had been told the Bears had no plans to draft a quarterback in the first round.

“It wasn’t that I thought the Bears were going to draft me,” he said. “But I was told that if they drafted a quarterback, I would be the quarterback they drafted. That wasn’t directed from their people, but that was told to my camp.”

That’s how covert former general manager Ryan Pace had been when searching for a passer in the draft. Not even coach John Fox knew the Bears were considering a quarterback until late in the process.

Speaking Tuesday at the team hotel as his Chiefs continued preparing for the Super Bowl against the Eagles, Mahomes admitted he was bewildered when Pace traded up one spot to draft North Carolina’s Trubisky.

“It surprised me a little bit,” Mahomes said. “But they told me they weren’t drafting a quarterback. So that was the most surprising thing of all.

“But they did say if a quarterback was drafted, I would be the guy they drafted.”
...

On Tuesday, Mahomes said his dad “took it a little far” last week and overstated his family’s certainty about what the Bears would do in the draft.

“I was like, ‘I don’t know that it was that serious,’ ” he said.

The quarterback said he wasn’t “extremely worried about it” in real time.

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2023 ... -ryan-pace

So it sounds very much as if it was all part of Ryan Pace's misdirection. The notion that the Bears weren't going to draft a QB was very well established; nobody expected them to. Looking back that's quite an accomplishment given they had the 3rd overall pick and Mike Glennon. That they further suggested if they were to take a QB it would be Mahomes was just another layer of subterfuge to prevent rivals from moving ahead of them to grab their chosen QB, one Mitchell Trubisky who lest we forget was considered by many 'draft experts' to be the top QB prospect in the class. Pace blew the choice but you have to admire the way he fooled everyone to ensure he got his man.

HisRoyalSweetness · Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:54 pm

bbaker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:39 pm Exactly what did Nagy have to do with Mahomes’ success? …after he left? Nagy’s “history” with Mahomes does exactly zero to “taint the argument” (even a little).

From the same article quoted above:

“I’m not going to lie. I wanted to get drafted here to the Kansas City Chiefs. I think it’s well-documented.”

Part of the allure was his relationship with Matt Nagy, who, before being named the Bears’ coach in 2018, was the Chiefs’ offensive coordinator. Nagy met with Mahomes during pre-draft meetings at the Chiefs’ facility. He told Mahomes what coach Andy Reid would ask him about, schematically, the next day.

Nagy wanted him to ace the test. But the more Mahomes thinks about it, the more he wonders whether it was part of the interview all along.

“Nagy did give me the answers,” he said. “He threw me a little sneak peak of what we were going to have the next day. I still to this day think it was a test. Because if he gave me the sneak peak and I didn’t get the answers right, it would have looked even worse. He wanted to make sure that I was gonna study.”

If nothing else Nagy certainly played a key role in Mahomes winding up in Kansas City. It seems unlikely he would have enjoyed such a tremendous level of success with many other teams if any.