WR in the 2023 Draft

[thunderspirit]

Here are Dane Brugler's Top 15 WRs from The Athletic - I think he's low on Boutte and Flowers:

1. Jordan Addison | USC | 6-0, 180
2. Quentin Johnston | TCU | 6-4, 215
3. Jaxon Smith-Njigba | Ohio State | 6-1, 193
4. Josh Downs | North Carolina | 5-10, 175
5. Jalin Hyatt | Tennessee | 6-0, 185
6. Rashee Rice | SMU | 6-1, 203
7. Tyler Scott | Cincinnati | 5-11, 185
8. A.T. Perry | Wake Forest | 6-4, 203
9. Zay Flowers | Boston College | 5-9, 170
10. Cedric Tillman | Tennessee | 6-3, 214
11. Kayshon Boutte | LSU | 6-0, 205
12. Parker Washington | Penn State | 5-10, 210
13. Dontayvion Wicks | Virginia | 6-2, 202
14. Marvin Mims | Oklahoma | 5-11, 180
15. Jonathan Mingo | Ole Miss | 6-2, 220

Flowers' rating is all based on his size.

As for Boutte, there's a lot of speculation and conjecture as to his decision to enter the draft, especially after previously saying he was returning in 2023. Feel free to draw your own conclusions (or don't).

[wulfy]

As for Boutte, there's a lot of speculation and conjecture as to his decision to enter the draft, especially after previously saying he was returning in 2023. Feel free to draw your own conclusions (or don't).

Based on that, he won't be a Bear.

[EricTighe]

Mingo is definitely an interesting prospect. He is a football player who can catch everything.

[RichH55]

Mingo is definitely an interesting prospect. He is a football player who can catch everything.

He was a player I did not like during Senior Bowl week.

Didn't really seem to have the knack for it for lack of a better phrase

[EricTighe]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... y-3-mobile

Most people liked what they saw out of him all week.

[RichH55]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... y-3-mobile

Most people liked what they saw out of him all week.

My notes on Mingo: Bad Route, Couldn't come up with contested catch, Suddenness? Doesn't seem to have "It". I am surprised they only listed him on that link at 6'1? He did look taller than that. He created next to no separation all week it seemed - and some of these Corners are good - but a lot are NFL backups at best. And these are mainly drills that favor the WR. (Granted QB play was ummmmm.....Not so good)

My NFL Comp: Jordan Matthews

I do not mean that as a positive thing

[Heinz D.]

I'm surprised Tyler Scott is ranked that high. I barely even know who that kid is--and have seen little written about him?

[EricTighe]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... y-3-mobile

Most people liked what they saw out of him all week.

My notes on Mingo: Bad Route, Couldn't come up with contested catch, Suddenness? Doesn't seem to have "It". I am surprised they only listed him on that link at 6'1? He did look taller than that. He created next to no separation all week it seemed - and some of these Corners are good - but a lot are NFL backups at best. And these are mainly drills that favor the WR. (Granted QB play was ummmmm.....Not so good)

My NFL Comp: Jordan Matthews

I do not mean that as a positive thing

We will have to agree to disagree on route running and catching. Not a great class at WR but he has some traits you look for in a guy. Very strong and loves to outmuscle guys for the ball. At 220lbs he has the size to run behind. When he gets screens he likes to bulldozer over guys instead of running out of bounds. I believe some of his quickness is coming back to him. He broke his foot in 2021 and hasn't been the same until late in the season and the senior bowl week.

[EricTighe]

ANDREI IOSIVAS WR PRINCETON.

SeniorBowl offensive player of the week.
East-West Shrine Bowl Outbreak Offensive Player of the Week. (Oct. 10, 2022)

This could end up as the best WR in this class. His athletic ability, size, and strength have never been seen in one WR before.
or
We could be wondering why we took a gamble on a guy who played at Princeton.

[karhu]

ANDREI IOSIVAS WR PRINCETON.

SeniorBowl offensive player of the week.
East-West Shrine Bowl Outbreak Offensive Player of the Week. (Oct. 10, 2022)

This could end up as the best WR in this class. His athletic ability, size, and strength have never been seen in one WR before.
or
We could be wondering why we took a gamble on a guy who played at Princeton.

He plays really, really slowly, though. Your first proposition makes him sound like he's Calvin Johnson, but he's decidedly a day three guy. His COD is awfully limited, I wonder about his hands, and I don't see much detail in his route-running.

[karhu]

As for Boutte, there's a lot of speculation and conjecture as to his decision to enter the draft, especially after previously saying he was returning in 2023. Feel free to draw your own conclusions (or don't).

The following is just my reaction to the fact that this is a thing, not to you or the fact that you've called my attention to this whole deal.

We've really come a long way over the last 90 years. Back then, Patrick Leigh Fermor was kicked out of school for holding hands with a girl, so he walked across Europe, captured a Nazi general, and became the greatest writer of his time (all right, Bellow, Didion, and Elkin each make a case). And now we've moved on. We're more advanced. We're free to throw out phrases like "sex party" as if they mean something when all they prove is how sanded-smooth our minds have become with cheap stimuli, and what a strident version of late-Victorian moralizing we've come to countenance. And how those two factors reinforce each other and join to try to convince us that they're all there is in the world when they offer us essentially the same thing. We're frogs in a pot. The worst part is that so many of us know it, and can't get past the other frogs who wonder why we can't appreciate such a nice hot tub.

Ahem. Sometimes I really miss NST.

[bearsoldier]

[thunderspirit]

As for Boutte, there's a lot of speculation and conjecture as to his decision to enter the draft, especially after previously saying he was returning in 2023. Feel free to draw your own conclusions (or don't).

The following is just my reaction to the fact that this is a thing, not to you or the fact that you've called my attention to this whole deal.

< tangential stuff >

Ahem. Sometimes I really miss NST.

If you say so.

To me, there's a difference between Victorian moralizing and the story behind Boutte no longer being on a Brian Kelly-led team.

But that's just one person's opinion, and I'm not drafting for the Bears in any case.

[cblaz11]

If I’m ranking the big 3, I think Jordan Addison will have the best career.

Addison- Devonte Smith
Jaxon Smith- Jamar Chase
Johnson- Chase Claypool

When looking at WRs late, check out Tre Tucker. Could be a late rd steal

[RichH55]

My notes on Mingo: Bad Route, Couldn't come up with contested catch, Suddenness? Doesn't seem to have "It". I am surprised they only listed him on that link at 6'1? He did look taller than that. He created next to no separation all week it seemed - and some of these Corners are good - but a lot are NFL backups at best. And these are mainly drills that favor the WR. (Granted QB play was ummmmm.....Not so good)

My NFL Comp: Jordan Matthews

I do not mean that as a positive thing

We will have to agree to disagree on route running and catching. Not a great class at WR but he has some traits you look for in a guy. Very strong and loves to outmuscle guys for the ball. At 220lbs he has the size to run behind. When he gets screens he likes to bulldozer over guys instead of running out of bounds. I believe some of his quickness is coming back to him. He broke his foot in 2021 and hasn't been the same until late in the season and the senior bowl week.

He HAS to outmuscle guys because he doesn't create separation with either his Routes or Physical ability. And I didn't even see him do that during Senior Bowl week. Lots of PDs against him - in both 1 on 1s and Team

I can't speak to injury or if that plays into it - Totally could

I see him having a meh 3-4 years in the league - a team trying to convert him to TE somewhere in the Year 3-5 range - and it failing.

I did not take into account using him like a Patterson type - maybe that is his best case? Though I have no idea if he's any good at Special Teams

As far as WR running routes and catching balls - Meh

[thunderspirit]

If I’m ranking the big 3, I think Jordan Addison will have the best career.

Addison- Devonte Smith
Jaxon Smith- Jamar Chase
Johnson- Chase Claypool

Smith-Njigba does resemble Chase build-wise, but appears to lack Chase's explosiveness and his top speed. JSN is a smoooooth athlete, not an explosive one. (Nothing wrong with that, mind you.) Reminds me of Van Jefferson (who, in turn, reminded me of Robert Woods). Worried a bit about his single season of production and it being volume-based, but he's probably my #1 receiver in this draft class.

If JSN is WR1, Quentin Johnston is WR1a. QJ is easily the more talented of the two, but JSN is far more skilled. The biggest difference in Smith-Njigba's hands and polish — QJ doesn't run routes in the same stratosphere, and drops more than you'd like to see. If Johnston develops perfectly, he's got AJ Green-level potential; if he develops somewhat, he's probably Devante Parker; if he doesn't develop at all, he's, I dunno, David Terrell? By all accounts, he loves the game, so he seems like a good bet.

Addison, to me , is Devonta Smith-sized Jarvis Landry. I love his route-running and his quickness in and out of breaks, but I don't see game-breaking speed and, at least prior to last season, his hands are iffy. Whether the improvement in his dropsies are a factor of better QB play or his own focus is up for debate. I see him as a slot-only guy unless he demonstrates more strength than his game tape at Pitt and USC show. Probably late Day 1 or Day 2 guy for me.

Only other guy likely going Day 1 in this year's draft is Jalin Hyatt. He's got Brandin Cooks/Will Fuller/John Ross see-ya speed (his build is remarkably similar to Fuller's, in fact) and decent hands. Someone is gonna take a chance on that, even coming out of Tennessee's offense.

[wab]

I'll be interested to see JSN's movement numbers. People are saying he's going to time painfully slow...but I just don't see that on the field.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I'll be interested to see JSN's movement numbers. People are saying he's going to time painfully slow...but I just don't see that on the field.

I don’t, I like JSN. I hope he is timed painfully slow because he’s not like that in games

He’s a catching machine too. I’d like him if we can trade down and pick him with our second pick.

[wulfy]

I'll be interested to see JSN's movement numbers. People are saying he's going to time painfully slow...but I just don't see that on the field.

He really hasn't been healthy in a while - he'll be a high 4.4 guy at the Combine if he runs. His game is quickness and route running.

Olave and Garrett Wilson are faster, but JSN just has an ability to get open. Watch last year's Rose Bowl if you want to see a clinic in route running and body positioning. I think Prime Santonio Holmes is a great comp for him.

[cblaz11]

I dunno….I just can’t talk myself into him in the top 20.

Jordan Addison is a guy that can take the top off….I don’t see that ability with JSN.

[EricTighe]

ANDREI IOSIVAS WR PRINCETON.

SeniorBowl offensive player of the week.
East-West Shrine Bowl Outbreak Offensive Player of the Week. (Oct. 10, 2022)

This could end up as the best WR in this class. His athletic ability, size, and strength have never been seen in one WR before.
or
We could be wondering why we took a gamble on a guy who played at Princeton.

He plays really, really slowly, though. Your first proposition makes him sound like he's Calvin Johnson, but he's decidedly a day three guy. His COD is awfully limited, I wonder about his hands, and I don't see much detail in his route-running.

Not my words.


Iosivas was one of the players hailing from the small-college ranks who garnered a lot of buzz heading into the week, and he didn't disappoint. His initial speed and burst off the ball really put defenders in a bind during 1-on-1s. You also saw him show nuance when trying to haul in a pass near the back line of the end zone or the sideline. There's still some rawness there with how he battles through contact, but watching him fly past defenders from the Power 5 level all throughout the week was great to see. I thought he answered some questions in that regard.

Here is the whole article.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/new ... -and-more/


Not quite sure how a gut who runs that fast plays slow? Jogging he would be faster then most. Usain Bolt ran a 6.31 60 meter this kid ran a 6.71 so he is pretty damn fast.

No I never said he was Calvin Johnson nor did I imply it. He may be more athletic though. (We will see)The rumor is he can bench 375lbs. Thus why he was listed as a top freak this year. Johnson was a WR who was a freak. Right now Iosivas is a freak playing WR. No guarantees he can ever be that WR guy. Not sure Princeton has very good WR's coaches so who is to say what he could become? 3rd draft pick I would roll the dice.

[EricTighe]

We will have to agree to disagree on route running and catching. Not a great class at WR but he has some traits you look for in a guy. Very strong and loves to outmuscle guys for the ball. At 220lbs he has the size to run behind. When he gets screens he likes to bulldozer over guys instead of running out of bounds. I believe some of his quickness is coming back to him. He broke his foot in 2021 and hasn't been the same until late in the season and the senior bowl week.

He HAS to outmuscle guys because he doesn't create separation with either his Routes or Physical ability. And I didn't even see him do that during Senior Bowl week. Lots of PDs against him - in both 1 on 1s and Team

I can't speak to injury or if that plays into it - Totally could

I see him having a meh 3-4 years in the league - a team trying to convert him to TE somewhere in the Year 3-5 range - and it failing.

I did not take into account using him like a Patterson type - maybe that is his best case? Though I have no idea if he's any good at Special Teams

As far as WR running routes and catching balls - Meh

I will say there is a difference between you and me in scouting guys. I would never bet against a guy becoming good to great in the NFL. You will never here say a guy will be out of the league in a few years. Too many stories of guys who couldn't going on to have great careers. Sometimes HOF careers.

Right now I see him as a third rounder. In the right system I believe he will excel. I really don't see anyone moving a 6'1" guy to TE though. But I could be wrong.

[karhu]

Not quite sure how a gut who runs that fast plays slow? Jogging he would be faster then most. Usain Bolt ran a 6.31 60 meter this kid ran a 6.71 so he is pretty damn fast.

Some fast guys play slow. Some slow guys get open all the time. It's just a thing.

[EricTighe]

Not quite sure how a gut who runs that fast plays slow? Jogging he would be faster then most. Usain Bolt ran a 6.31 60 meter this kid ran a 6.71 so he is pretty damn fast.

Some fast guys play slow. Some slow guys get open all the time. It's just a thing.

True and I also read by one guy that he plays slow as well. Wonder if he can catch. Better yet, can he learn a playbook and be where he supposed to be.

[cblaz11]

Flowers with a 442…Addison with a 449

[cblaz11]

Flowers is going to pass up JSN on a lot of people’s WR list.

[IE]

ANDREI IOSIVAS WR PRINCETON.

SeniorBowl offensive player of the week.
East-West Shrine Bowl Outbreak Offensive Player of the Week. (Oct. 10, 2022)

This could end up as the best WR in this class. His athletic ability, size, and strength have never been seen in one WR before.
or
We could be wondering why we took a gamble on a guy who played at Princeton.

I watched all day yesterday and to me this kid stood out. Addison was great but the Bears aren't drafting a WR that high. I thought Iosivas totally belonged with the top WRs in this draft, and he'll likely be available when the Bears start looking for a WR on day two. I sure hope other teams shy away from the Princeton kid and the Bears grab him.

Maybe I'm partial to Princeton, given I'm a fanboy of Horsted.

[Moriarty]

ANDREI IOSIVAS WR PRINCETON.

SeniorBowl offensive player of the week.
East-West Shrine Bowl Outbreak Offensive Player of the Week. (Oct. 10, 2022)

This could end up as the best WR in this class. His athletic ability, size, and strength have never been seen in one WR before.
or
We could be wondering why we took a gamble on a guy who played at Princeton.

I watched all day yesterday and to me this kid stood out. Addison was great but the Bears aren't drafting a WR that high. I thought Iosivas totally belonged with the top WRs in this draft, and he'll likely be available when the Bears start looking for a WR on day two. I sure hope other teams shy away from the Princeton kid and the Bears grab him.

Maybe I'm partial to Princeton, given I'm a fanboy of Horsted.

It was an odd, but fairly good day for him.

Everyone was expecting a smokeshow of a 40 from him and it didn't happen. Fine, but not eye-popping.
But his cone was seriously badass for a 6'3 guy.

[EricTighe]

WR Bryce Ford-Wheaton this kid had a day.

[wulfy]

I found yesterday to be generally unimpressive from a WR standpoint … if Addison weighs 173 pounds, he needed to run better than a 4.49.

People thought Hyatt was going to break 4.3 and he ran a 4.40. Tank Dell should have run faster also (4.49].

If you’re small … you better be fast.