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duckherd50
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I realize we all want answers to the trenches, but we have definitely improved our team leaps and bounds since the season ended. Just wanted to pass on some thoughts:

1. DJ Moore - exactly what the Bears needed....a playmaker. He is gonna be electric and he will make the other WR's monsters as well.
2. Claypool - the guy is clearly talented. I think we are all hung up on his lack of production after the trade that we have written him off. I honestly feel this guy is gonna be real real good for us (especially since we have DJ Moore now).
3. Mooney - will just continue to be better and better.
4. The OL is better now than it was at end of the year with the signing of Davis. I think we will get help there and it will get better.
5. I have no idea how the DL will get better, but it has to and I'm sure Poles knows that. I think he will sign some veterans to 1 year deals and sprinkle in some rookies and it will be decent by the time all is said and done.
6. The back 7 on defense is gonna be real good. I think Gordon got better and better and will continue to show why he was selected when the pass rush is better. We need one more CB to really be dynamic in the back 7.
7. We got a heck of a deal in the Panthers trade and it can transform the next 10-15 years of this franchise.
8. I think Poles has shown that he can get the job done.
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UOK
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Until Poles signs/drafts 12 linemen on either side of the ball, many Bears fans are going to be hyper-critical, if not furious, over any move Poles makes as GM.
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UOK wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:12 am many Bears fans are going to be hyper-critical, if not furious, over any move Poles makes as GM.
fixed that for you
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Not sure the OL counts as better with the signing of Davis. Patrick is a big unknown. Where does Jenkins play, LG, RG, or RT? Where does Davis play, LG or RG? Where's the RT they need? Where are the DLmen they need?
Drafts are like snowflakes, no two are alike.
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UOK wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:12 am Until Poles signs/drafts 12 linemen on either side of the ball, many Bears fans are going to be hyper-critical, if not furious, over any move Poles makes as GM.
And many will refuse to criticize anything he does right up until he gets fired, then they’ll act as if he’s some clown while the new GM is an immediate GOAT.

Seriously, it’s hilarious watching the same people who preach that our GM is infallible and how he’s a GM and we aren’t so STFU essentially- and how they now talk about Ryan Pace, Phil Emory, etc.

I’m not taking the comment personally as I’ve praised several moves at first, and now I’m blasting his inaction, so I’m on both sides of this. But I don’t look down on those who have been more critical, I get it. No one would look back at folks who were critical of Ryan Pace and wag their finger at them.
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southdakbearfan
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I will wait to be very critical until the full package of FA, trades and the draft plays out.

There are more starting FA’s to sign at many positions that are available. Every starter poles gets now is one more spot free’d up for the draft regardless of position.

My prediction is that most of our D line starters will be coming from early picks in the draft with maybe 1 oline starter sprinkled in.
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UOK
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dplank wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:30 am
UOK wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:12 am Until Poles signs/drafts 12 linemen on either side of the ball, many Bears fans are going to be hyper-critical, if not furious, over any move Poles makes as GM.
And many will refuse to criticize anything he does right up until he gets fired, then they’ll act as if he’s some clown while the new GM is an immediate GOAT.

Seriously, it’s hilarious watching the same people who preach that our GM is infallible and how he’s a GM and we aren’t so STFU essentially- and how they now talk about Ryan Pace, Phil Emory, etc.

I’m not taking the comment personally as I’ve praised several moves at first, and now I’m blasting his inaction, so I’m on both sides of this. But I don’t look down on those who have been more critical, I get it. No one would look back at folks who were critical of Ryan Pace and wag their finger at them.
It wasn't directed at you specifically or anyone on this page, more as a typical thing I roll my eyes at from Bears fans on the whole of the internet. I'm an optimist, and I want the whole thing to play out before I wag my finger at a GM and criticize the moves/lack of moves.

It's just a philosophy thing as a fan. I'm more patient than most, maybe, and try to find the reasoning in every decision a GM makes or doesn't make. That doesn't make me a better or smarter fan, it's just how I choose to experience being a Bears supporter. I spent nearly 20 years being angry and emotional about this team, and it didn't get me anywhere. So now I choose to be positive-ish, or at least ambivalent, for my own mental health.

Does that make me look like a hypocrite sometimes? Sure as hell, but I'd rather be that way than just angry and fed up all the time.
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It's clear to me how Poles valued the players on the market. I tend to agree with him on guys like Mike McGlinchey and Orlando Brown Jr, while less so on guys like Andrew Wylie. But he's obviously not gonna spend just to spend.

Related, the deals he has agreed to aren't the sort of commitments most free agent contracts generate and are less likely to turn into cap nightmares in the future. We've all lamented those situations in the past (Poles dealt with several in his first year) and we have only a few remaining.

It will be interesting to see his approach to extending current players, or even which he thinks are worth it.
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
:shocked:
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wab
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Didn't know where to put this and didn't want to start a new thread.

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dplank wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:30 am
And many will refuse to criticize anything he does right up until he gets fired, then they’ll act as if he’s some clown while the new GM is an immediate GOAT.

Seriously, it’s hilarious watching the same people who preach that our GM is infallible and how he’s a GM and we aren’t so STFU essentially- and how they now talk about Ryan Pace, Phil Emory, etc.
Specifics of the various arguments going on right now aside, there's simply no denying that this pattern repeats itself over and over and over and it seems like no amount of repetition is sufficient to kill it off or even reduce it to a tiny minority.
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UOK
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Moriarty wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:17 am
dplank wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:30 am
And many will refuse to criticize anything he does right up until he gets fired, then they’ll act as if he’s some clown while the new GM is an immediate GOAT.

Seriously, it’s hilarious watching the same people who preach that our GM is infallible and how he’s a GM and we aren’t so STFU essentially- and how they now talk about Ryan Pace, Phil Emory, etc.
Specifics of the various arguments going on right now aside, there's simply no denying that this pattern repeats itself over and over and over and it seems like no amount of repetition is sufficient to kill it off or even reduce it to a tiny minority.
So it's better to be angry and skeptical, got it.
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UOK wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:32 am
Moriarty wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:17 am

Specifics of the various arguments going on right now aside, there's simply no denying that this pattern repeats itself over and over and over and it seems like no amount of repetition is sufficient to kill it off or even reduce it to a tiny minority.
So it's better to be angry and skeptical, got it.
Angry, not necessarily
Skeptical, questioning, and open to all sorts of possibilities vs assuming they are brilliant (when that literally hasn't been true for decades), yes
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dplank
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Moriarty wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:41 am
UOK wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:32 am

So it's better to be angry and skeptical, got it.
Angry, not necessarily
Skeptical, questioning, and open to all sorts of possibilities vs assuming they are brilliant (when that literally hasn't been true for decades), yes
Yes this right here. Reading text on a message board and trying to project the writers emotion into it is very difficult and things get taken the wrong way all the time. That goes for everyone, myself included. Prime example here, as I'm questioning Poles inaction right now, I'm not angry AT ALL (mildly frustrated would be as far as I'd go) but I suspect a bunch of people think I am furious. I'm having fun - team building/construct is fascinating and a fun diversion for me. And I've liked more of what Poles has done than disliked! But blindly agreeing with, or hating, every move Poles makes wouldn't be fun at all, it would be super boring and I'd tune out and do something else. The only time I get actually angry here is when people distort, twist, lie, etc and make every discussion about some personal vendetta. For the most part that doesn't happen here, which is why I spend so much time here. If this all made me angry, I'd do something else.
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We should be skeptical. I hope our new Team President is also skeptical... So far, truth be told, Poles has only proven that he can dismantle a roster.. Now before I get blasted , I will point out that many of us agreed with what Poles knew, that we were going to have to get rid of Mack, Quinn, Smith if we were going to be able to rebuild this team and those losses we suffered as a result did help us acquire the number 1 pick, which enabled us to trade with Carolina and acquire a true #1 WR in Moore. That said, that move was not really so much a stroke of genius as it was a matter of being at the right place and the right time. The Chicago media claims that Poles demanded Moore in lieu of the 2025 1st rd pick, ok, maybe that's true, maybe it's not but I will give credit to Poles just the same for getting that done. But really now, is anyone not surprised though by the lack of acquisitions for the D line thus far? That was our most critical area of need. I mean, our D line is dogshit, we can't pressure anyone, we can't stop the run, yet, here we are, with no significant upgrade. I simply cannot believe that Hargrave could not have helped us for 2-3 years while we drafted his replacement. There just were not enough DTs in Free Agency to go around, we really needed help there. I don't begrudge him the Edmunds signing but God Dammit he should have prioritized DT. He wants to build through the draft? Fine, the timeline for playoffs just moved out 2 years, provided he drafts well. I'll be good with that as long as he really drafts well because if he doesn't, we all know where we will be because we have been there so many times before.
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The more I think about the Claypool thing, it's pretty silly to be too critical about throwing a guy mid-season into a completely different system that has some complexities to it. WRs take some time to get on board with their QB and learn system nuances. Those (including me) who expected Claypool to hit the ground running in our offense after the trade were delusional. I think we're going to see an entirely different Claypool in 2023.
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Mikefive wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:41 pm The more I think about the Claypool thing, it's pretty silly to be too critical about throwing a guy mid-season into a completely different system that has some complexities to it. WRs take some time to get on board with their QB and learn system nuances. Those (including me) who expected Claypool to hit the ground running in our offense after the trade were delusional. I think we're going to see an entirely different Claypool in 2023.
Of course we'll see a different Claypool and we'll see a different Mooney. DJ Moore will make them both better and more dangerous.
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Moriarty wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:41 am
UOK wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:32 am

So it's better to be angry and skeptical, got it.
Angry, not necessarily
Skeptical, questioning, and open to all sorts of possibilities vs assuming they are brilliant (when that literally hasn't been true for decades), yes
Skepticism is good when applied honestly

I think saying "show me/prove it over this period of time" is by far a fairer approach than defaulting to either optimism or pessimism.
2023 Preseason Downside prediction:
5-6 wins, never really healthy all season, a constant shuffling.
We're potentially in a position to draft in the Top 5 again, depending on the Carolina team, and probably have a low-teens (or better) pick ourselves.
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I've always considered it (found it) inadvisable to get upset about the end result of any game until it is over. Especially not in the early innings or quarters of a game.

I'm usually some level of optimistic during the game, as long as there is enough time left and some decent rationale that it can be won.

Skeptical? Sometimes - but I've found that to be a weird commitment of mental resources to be proactively negative when it might not be necessary at all in hindsight.

With that said, I'm off to watch my "Perenially One and Done Champions" Fighting Illini in theNCAA tourney. Wish me luck. I'll be optimistic until there is clear evidence not to be.
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I think Poles is of the mindset - if I can get sure fire star players like Edmunds then I’ll pay them. If I can only get decent players in FA then I’ll grow my own star players.

I think Leatherwood or Borom are going to be starters on the Oline.
Perhaps they’re going to draft a tackle too and let the 3 battle it out for the RT spot?

I just have a feeling it’s going to be Leatherwood and Poles really will be the genius with 2 very good tackles picked from nowhere on rookie contracts.
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wab wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:12 am Didn't know where to put this and didn't want to start a new thread.

Out of those guys I'd like to see

1. Ngokoue and A'Shawn Robinson. I think that would gie us a solid DL going into the draft - still need help, but not a joke.

2. Rock Ya Sin or Griffin. Still need help at CB, but not paying crazy money for either.

3. Frank Clark if we can't land Ngokoue and Robinson. I think his contract will be outside Pole's comfort zone and not likely to land here.

4. Geisicki or Schultz. I'd would have though both would be gone early, but with that not happening, maybe one will slide down pricewise so that Poles jumps at the change to land talent.

5. Taylor Lewan is on the list. Didn't he get released and retire. If he's out there and check out medically (seems like he missed almost all of last year) and wants a one year prove it contract, go get him and still draft a RT to hopefully take his job from him. He clearly has the nastiness that they want in players. Just don't know if he pass a physical.
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My supposition is that we're not gonna see Lewan or (probably) Clark in a Bears uniform, based on incidents in their past. Similarly, Geisicki doesn't block, so he's not likely to get much of a look.

Robinson and Ya-Sin both make some sense and would/should fit.
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
:shocked:
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wab
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I could live with Clark for a year. He’s kind of a turd but he’s a HITS guy for sure. Dude is relentless.

I would imagine he’s going to wait until after the draft and go to a contender. Plus I don’t think he age/upside profile the Bears are currently after.
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IE wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:41 pm

With that said, I'm off to watch my "Perenially One and Done Champions" Fighting Illini in theNCAA tourney. Wish me luck. I'll be optimistic until there is clear evidence not to be.

Well, you didn't have any misplaced optimism there .... One and Done yet again.
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My Terps barely survived, they will go out soon
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wulfy wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:43 pm
IE wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:41 pm

With that said, I'm off to watch my "Perenially One and Done Champions" Fighting Illini in theNCAA tourney. Wish me luck. I'll be optimistic until there is clear evidence not to be.

Well, you didn't have any misplaced optimism there .... One and Done yet again.
Didnt even watch this year - missed nothing
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Here is what I see from what has been done in FA and where the draft will go.

So a line of Jones, Jenkins, Whitehair, Davis & upper draft pick with Patrick & Borom as backups sounds a lot better than last season when they rolled out with an unproven 5th rnd pick at LT, an injured center/guard, the stench known as Mustipher, unknown guard and poor RT. The Line is just much more settled. Between Patrick and Whitehair they can play center fine and won't end up in Fields lap every other play. Jenkins health and most likely switch will be a little question but I think the health is probably more of an issue than his ability to switch from 1 guard spot to the other. Leatherwood is a minimal sunk cost I expect nothing out of but is ok as a backup guard as well and makes them better off than last year. He may not even make the roster if they draft well. Another FA pickup is not out of the question, depending on who that could mean leatherwood is gone.

WR is leaps and bounds better - I don't think they will draft any here. Maybe an UDFA or 2 for camp bodies.
RB is at least equal or better than last season. Monty's all around versatility will be a loss, but Herbert better want to step up, he could be special. I don't expect any picks here.
TE is better with Tonyan for depth - no need to draft here now.
DL is already better with the 2 additions, with at least 3 more to come via the draft. Gipson, Jones, Walker, Billings plus 3 draft picks. D Rob is probably PS bound. If they do what I think they will and draft 3 higher picks, the signings make more sense as there will be a lot of rotation in and out so as to not wear the rookies out.
LB is astronomically better with 2 studs and a fairly proven sanborn. I expect no draft picks here unless its real late, maybe just a vet FA pickup.
CB should be solid with Gordon hopefully improving, and the defense in front of them should be better. Maybe a Draft pick is the right player drops or a vet pickup for depth
S Brisker will be even better, will Eddie stay at a high level. Again a later pick if the right guy drops or a vet pickup for depth.

Right now they are a better team on both sides of the ball than they were at any point last season, without factoring in a single draft pick.

If I am GM I am going into the draft like this.

Pick 1 - Best T or DL on the board
Pick 2 - Best T or DL on the board, but opposite of pick 1.
Pick 3 - Best DL on the board
Pick 4 - Best DL on the board
Pick 5 - Best OL on the board

Pick 6 or 5th round on its BPA at CB, S, DL and possibly OL.
Pick 7 - same as pick 6
Pick 8 - developmental QB?

Pick 6-8 could be used to move up with one of the top 5 picks to snag someone if they needed. Pick 1 could be traded down to pick up an extra pick or two in the 2nd and 3rd round.
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I think there is probably more options on those early picks (after Round 1 at least) than T or DL
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As bad as our D Line is, I wouldn't care if he did nothing but DL as long as Paris Johnson is our first pick.
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RichH55 wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:30 am I think there is probably more options on those early picks (after Round 1 at least) than T or DL
There is every option under the sun, but the draft is heavy with good D and O line prospects that can start right away. It’s also the biggest need area of the team.
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