Orlando Brown to Bengals

[wab]

Yea I can see them calling out the starting lineup at the opening of the Super Bowl now:

Starting at DE - DeMarcus Walker
Starting at DT - “10M of available cap space”
starting at DT - “Another 10M of cap space”
And so on

Stacks of money can’t run, pass, block or tackle.

Yet they're playing in the Super Bowl? Wow, Poles must have knocked it out of the park on all the players he did sign!

I wasn’t gonna say it, but I’m glad someone did.

[artbest01]

Re: Edmunds and "off the ball linebackers." I think we've assumed that Eberflus/Poles don't value the position - I don't know if it was truly confirmed by either the GM or head coach. I think they simply had a contract dispute with Roquan that turned nasty/personal and both sides deemed it best to move on.

Moving on to Edmunds - he gives the Bears the closest thing to Brian Urlacher since....Brian Urlacher. He has unique length, speed, athletic ability and is regarded as one of the better coverage LBs in the league. He provides, while not at the same level, a similar value in this defense that Brian Urlacher did....at least on paper. Whether or not he lives up to his contract is an open question (as it is for every free agent signed by every team), but the value he represents is clear (to me anyway).

This is a different issue from not adding an offensive tackle or legit 3T. It seemed that Poles went into this period thinking "it's McGlinchey or bust." When the Broncos paid more than Poles was willing to pay, "bust" came into play. It also seems like the Bears were not 100% sold on Dre Mont Jones as a legit 3T. Walker seems to be someone they view as an interior pass rusher on passing downs.

My fear - something that a caller shared on WSCR this morning - is that Poles may think he's smarter than other GMS when it comes to identifying diamond-in-the-rough offensive lineman. This caller - and he may be right - is convinced the Bears WON'T draft an OT in round 1 - that it's likely a pass rusher or 3T (can't argue with either). My "worry?" The "best player available" at #9 may be a CB. It won't surprise me in the least if Poles waits until R2 and later to address offensive and defensive line.

[Moriarty]

My fear - something that a caller shared on WSCR this morning - is that Poles may think he's smarter than other GMS when it comes to identifying diamond-in-the-rough offensive lineman. This caller - and he may be right - is convinced the Bears WON'T draft an OT in round 1 - that it's likely a pass rusher or 3T (can't argue with either).

I heard that same call.
I'm not convinced that happens, but I think it's entirely possible.
Maybe we should start talking Day 3 OTs? I like Wanya Morris and Carter Warren so far.

My "worry?" The "best player available" at #9 may be a CB. It won't surprise me in the least if Poles waits until R2 and later to address offensive and defensive line.

I think there's a high chance that the BPA at a position of need, or maybe even pure BPA, at 9 is a CB.
Maybe they think they already did enough in the secondary last year and intend to ride with Vildor.
Or maybe Poles is a big believer in secondary and hits it again.

[dplank]

haha well played

Well, I shouldn't lump you in with the "Poles does everything right" crowd, nor should you lump me in with the "Poles does everything wrong" crowd. I do like the Edmunds signing, but I also see it as an overpay frankly. I suppose the difference in how we look at things is that the overpay doesn't bother me, so long as it's not egregious. I also liked the Edwards signing and the Walker signing. What does bother me is letting talent fly by that can help us.

The double speak that I see is likely the different argument from "understanding what he's doing" vs "agreeing with what he's doing". I think when we talk past each other, that's why. I also understand what he's doing, I read the same pressers you did, but I have no interest in talking about that because it's obvious and there's nothing to really talk about. It's more interesting to me at least to debate what he is or isn't doing. So, for clarity, here's the things I'm watching and judging:

1. Edmunds signing - I like it even if it's a bit of an overpay. But I have a caveat here, if signing Edmunds to 18M means that Poles isn't going to spend any more money then he overspent on the wrong position IMO. So I love the player, and I called it, and I was super excited when it was announced - but I didn't expect with all our cap room that Poles would basically stop there and that's why I waffle on the move. I have this as a TBD because I need to see the full context of the offseason, I may love it I may hate it.
2. Edwards and Walker signings - I like them both, neither was an overpay and they fill needs
3. Davis signing - TBD. I don't dislike the player and I obviously pine all the time for OL, but this one is TBD because I might like it or I might not depending on what happens next. I need the full context of the offseason before I can judge it. If spending 10M on Davis means it's the only move he's going to make up front, then I ABSOLUTELY HATE THIS MOVE. If he's willing to keep spending and address C/RT, then I may like the move - and I'll toss in if they are going to swing Jenkins to RT then I may also like the move.
4. Passing on McGlinchey - I'm ok with this, his price got really high and I can live with the pass.
5. Passing on Brown - Just an obviously stupid move to me at that price, 4x pro bowl LT's don't grow on trees and at that price you grab that guy even if the scheme fit isn't perfect.
6. Passing on McGary - Another really bad move IMO - 11M for that guy? C'mon Ryan.
7. I suppose I should include our Trade Down - I graded that a 9/10 and absolutely LOVED that move
8. Passing on Hargrave - Same as McGlinchey, I get not paying what that guy got at that age. I don't ding Poles for this.
9. Passing on Jawaan Taylor - Same as McGlinchey/Hargrave, he went for too muich $$ IMO and I don't ding Poles for this.
10. Passing on Dre-Mont Jones - Big miss by Poles IMO. BTW - you said before when I criticized this that Poles didn't want a guy his size playing 3T - then he went and signed Walker to play 3T (I think he's playing there?) and he's the same size! Jones went for a lot less than we all thought and he would have filled an obvious need for us. Big miss here IMO.
11. Not yet discussed - I really wanted us to get Hayden Hurst. That guy plays TOUGH football and would have been a great compliment to Kmet.

So breaking out my abacus, I count 6 likes, 4 dislikes, and 2 TBD's. Like politics, I don't choose one side or another, I'm an issues guy. With the Bears, I don't hate or stan for Poles, I call each move as I see it and I never bother with whether or not I understand why he does something I like or dislike, because that's irrelevant IMO.

[thunderspirit]

Maybe we should start talking Day 3 OTs? I like Wanya Morris and Carter Warren so far.

Two guys I think can play.

We should make this thread.

[Grizzled]

Poles is expecting lightening to strike (somewhat) ala Braxton Jones with a RT, a 3T, a DT, a DE in the draft. I'm glad the Bears have a confident guy at their helm but sometimes you have to narrow the odds. I understand not paying insane $ for McGlinchey and Hargrave. I kind of understand not paying for Brown, he just didn't meet Poles criteria for athleticism or something. Dre'mont Jones went for way less than people thought. He's not much of a run defender but could have brought the pressure the Bears were lacking. I'm completely lost at not making a solid run at McGary for what turns out to be an undermarket deal. I'm also at a loss at the Edmunds signing for that amount of $. Lots of LB (I'm sure at least one can play off the ball) in the draft if Poles wanted to build through it as he says.

[wab]

I think Poles might just trust his scouting department more than we do.

[karhu]

I think Poles might just trust his scouting department more than we do.

He hired a scouting department? When he's got us?

[karhu]

Maybe we should start talking Day 3 OTs? I like Wanya Morris and Carter Warren so far.

Two guys I think can play.

We should make this thread.

Until then, another name: Tyler Steen. Weird to think of an Alabama player as a sleeper, but he spent most of his career at Vanderbilt. Arms a quarter inch away from where you'd like 'em to be, but otherwise strikes me as a solid day 3 RT candidate with a lot of experience to build on.

[dave99]

Poles is expecting lightening to strike (somewhat) ala Braxton Jones with a RT, a 3T, a DT, a DE in the draft. I'm glad the Bears have a confident guy at their helm but sometimes you have to narrow the odds. I understand not paying insane $ for McGlinchey and Hargrave. I kind of understand not paying for Brown, he just didn't meet Poles criteria for athleticism or something. Dre'mont Jones went for way less than people thought. He's not much of a run defender but could have brought the pressure the Bears were lacking. I'm completely lost at not making a solid run at McGary for what turns out to be an undermarket deal. I'm also at a loss at the Edmunds signing for that amount of $. Lots of LB (I'm sure at least one can play off the ball) in the draft if Poles wanted to build through it as he says.

Just FYI, Walker had 8 sacks in 2022 and PFF scored him at 68.7 against the run and 67.4 pass rush.
Jones had 7 sacks, 41.8 against the run and 67.3 pass rush.
So maybe, Poles didn't want to spend big money on projection to 3T that would not help ( and might even hurt) the woeful run defense.
As far as linebacker, suddenly the Bears have 2 of the top LB in the league, at least as far as PFF scoring is concerned. Safe bet that Eberflus was lobbying hard for Edmunds. He is improving against the run and is already elite in coverage.
I don't get McGary either. Except maybe the goal is to beef up pass blocking and that is not McGary's wheelhouse. Or maybe he just wanted to stay in Atlanta.

[Grizzled]

Poles is expecting lightening to strike (somewhat) ala Braxton Jones with a RT, a 3T, a DT, a DE in the draft. I'm glad the Bears have a confident guy at their helm but sometimes you have to narrow the odds. I understand not paying insane $ for McGlinchey and Hargrave. I kind of understand not paying for Brown, he just didn't meet Poles criteria for athleticism or something. Dre'mont Jones went for way less than people thought. He's not much of a run defender but could have brought the pressure the Bears were lacking. I'm completely lost at not making a solid run at McGary for what turns out to be an undermarket deal. I'm also at a loss at the Edmunds signing for that amount of $. Lots of LB (I'm sure at least one can play off the ball) in the draft if Poles wanted to build through it as he says.

Just FYI, Walker had 8 sacks in 2022 and PFF scored him at 68.7 against the run and 67.4 pass rush.
Jones had 7 sacks, 41.8 against the run and 67.3 pass rush.
So maybe, Poles didn't want to spend big money on projection to 3T that would not help ( and might even hurt) the woeful run defense.
As far as linebacker, suddenly the Bears have 2 of the top LB in the league, at least as far as PFF scoring is concerned. Safe bet that Eberflus was lobbying hard for Edmunds. He is improving against the run and is already elite in coverage.
I don't get McGary either. Except maybe the goal is to beef up pass blocking and that is not McGary's wheelhouse. Or maybe he just wanted to stay in Atlanta.

Walker's definitely a very good under-the-radar signing. I just don't see him as a 3T, more of a DE. It wasn't like the Bears don't need more than one good DL man, they could have signed both. I love me some Bears LB play, always have, but it seems like a stout DL improves the LB and secondary play, I would have thought that's where to start the work. As for McGary, yes, he's a better run blocker although his pass blocking improved last year. But what did the Bears emphasize? I'm hoping they actually field a modern day passing offense this year and need a great pass blocking RT and Braxton works on his strength so he doesn't end so many plays in the Bears backfield. I just imagine Poles didn't even talk to him for whatever reason.

[RichH55]

haha well played

Well, I shouldn't lump you in with the "Poles does everything right" crowd, nor should you lump me in with the "Poles does everything wrong" crowd. I do like the Edmunds signing, but I also see it as an overpay frankly. I suppose the difference in how we look at things is that the overpay doesn't bother me, so long as it's not egregious. I also liked the Edwards signing and the Walker signing. What does bother me is letting talent fly by that can help us.

The double speak that I see is likely the different argument from "understanding what he's doing" vs "agreeing with what he's doing". I think when we talk past each other, that's why. I also understand what he's doing, I read the same pressers you did, but I have no interest in talking about that because it's obvious and there's nothing to really talk about. It's more interesting to me at least to debate what he is or isn't doing. So, for clarity, here's the things I'm watching and judging:

1. Edmunds signing - I like it even if it's a bit of an overpay. But I have a caveat here, if signing Edmunds to 18M means that Poles isn't going to spend any more money then he overspent on the wrong position IMO. So I love the player, and I called it, and I was super excited when it was announced - but I didn't expect with all our cap room that Poles would basically stop there and that's why I waffle on the move. I have this as a TBD because I need to see the full context of the offseason, I may love it I may hate it.
2. Edwards and Walker signings - I like them both, neither was an overpay and they fill needs
3. Davis signing - TBD. I don't dislike the player and I obviously pine all the time for OL, but this one is TBD because I might like it or I might not depending on what happens next. I need the full context of the offseason before I can judge it. If spending 10M on Davis means it's the only move he's going to make up front, then I ABSOLUTELY HATE THIS MOVE. If he's willing to keep spending and address C/RT, then I may like the move - and I'll toss in if they are going to swing Jenkins to RT then I may also like the move.
4. Passing on McGlinchey - I'm ok with this, his price got really high and I can live with the pass.
5. Passing on Brown - Just an obviously stupid move to me at that price, 4x pro bowl LT's don't grow on trees and at that price you grab that guy even if the scheme fit isn't perfect.
6. Passing on McGary - Another really bad move IMO - 11M for that guy? C'mon Ryan.
7. I suppose I should include our Trade Down - I graded that a 9/10 and absolutely LOVED that move
8. Passing on Hargrave - Same as McGlinchey, I get not paying what that guy got at that age. I don't ding Poles for this.
9. Passing on Jawaan Taylor - Same as McGlinchey/Hargrave, he went for too muich $$ IMO and I don't ding Poles for this.
10. Passing on Dre-Mont Jones - Big miss by Poles IMO. BTW - you said before when I criticized this that Poles didn't want a guy his size playing 3T - then he went and signed Walker to play 3T (I think he's playing there?) and he's the same size! Jones went for a lot less than we all thought and he would have filled an obvious need for us. Big miss here IMO.
11. Not yet discussed - I really wanted us to get Hayden Hurst. That guy plays TOUGH football and would have been a great compliment to Kmet.

So breaking out my abacus, I count 6 likes, 4 dislikes, and 2 TBD's. Like politics, I don't choose one side or another, I'm an issues guy. With the Bears, I don't hate or stan for Poles, I call each move as I see it and I never bother with whether or not I understand why he does something I like or dislike, because that's irrelevant IMO.

So ummmm- Knocking it out of the park on a Trade Down from the #1 Pick

Has the Same effect on this score system as Not signing Hayden Hurst?

Maybe time to get a math guy

[Burl]

I’m not trying to land on the side of “Poles has a plan and is executing it perfectly “ but look, it’s going to take more than one offseason to build a perennial contender. You guys are acting like Orlando Brown is Orlando Pace or some shit. This squad’s future doesn’t rest on such acquisitions. That’s how you end up in a RyanPace predicament. Stay true to how you value these guys and continue to amass draft picks. Play the long game.
The DL needs more attention than the offense in my opinion and we’re a year away, regardless
We have a QB. Let’s not freak out and see what the draft brings us.

[RichH55]

Of course he signed with a team which has been in or close to the SB for the past 2 years and is a pre-season favorite to reach it again. That's okay, the Bears are building to it.

Yea I can see them calling out the starting lineup at the opening of the Super Bowl now:

Starting at DE - DeMarcus Walker
Starting at DT - “10M of available cap space”
starting at DT - “Another 10M of cap space”
And so on

Stacks of money can’t run, pass, block or tackle.

Can Draft picks?

[RichH55]

I’m not trying to land on the side of “Poles has a plan and is executing it perfectly “ but look, it’s going to take more than one offseason to build a perennial contender. You guys are acting like Orlando Brown is Orlando Pace or some shit. This squad’s future doesn’t rest on such acquisitions. That’s how you end up in a RyanPace predicament. Stay true to how you value these guys and continue to amass draft picks. Play the long game.
The DL needs more attention than the offense in my opinion and we’re a year away, regardless
We have a QB. Let’s not freak out and see what the draft brings us.

I mean there is also the league here - Chiefs moved on and it wasn't $$$ related

And it wasn't like he got 23+ a year either (completely unencumbered too)