3-4 alignment?

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Atkins&Rebel
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Looking back at the LBs signed, and Walker being more of a 5t DE, could we be low-key switching back to a 3-4 base? Or even some kind of 3-4/4-3 hybrid?
Many of the edge rushers in the early part of the draft seem better suited to a 3-4 also.
I mean we could luck out and get the one guy who's great with his hand in the dirt, but maybe the available talent is dictating the scheme alignment?
Flus does have 9 years of coaching history in the 3-4.
I'm not putting this out there as a done deal by any means, but maybe it's a real thought possibility if the draft goes a certain way?
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Not getting your theory.

We signed two of the Best LB's in NFL that are suited for a 4-3. Sanborn will move to Sam and be primarily a backup and special teams player since we will run Nickle formation more then the traditional 4-3 scheme.

Everyone loves Sanborn and I understand it but maybe at best, he is just another Kiatawoski. That's not a bad thing either I love our signing for the type of 4-3 we run. I believe we will fill the need with youth at DT/DE in the draft unless they already know what vetrans maybe released on June 1st. Remember there are always a few big names dropped on that day.
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Yeah. In addition to what ET said, no DC runs a pure 4-3 or 3-4 anymore. They shift players all over the field, their in Nickel 65% of the time. But with the players they just signed they are moving to a pure 3-4.
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I'm no expert, but I don't think there's much remaining core alignments left in the league. Teams have philosophies and tendencies based on available talent or stubbornness of the coaching staff, but I think all defenses primarily run hybrid packages.

I'll happily default to more coach-leaning minds to provide a better answer!
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I hope not - I hate the 3-4. To me it has always been an abomination. LOL

The Chicago Bears are synonymous with great MLBs. We just signed the next long-term one. The Football Gods are smiling.
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UOK wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:50 am I'm no expert, but I don't think there's much remaining core alignments left in the league. Teams have philosophies and tendencies based on available talent or stubbornness of the coaching staff, but I think all defenses primarily run hybrid packages.

I'll happily default to more coach-leaning minds to provide a better answer!
Teams are running a lot more different sets of offenses personnel wise, so I agree teams tend to not be as "locked in" on their set defense. Lots of moving parts to match up what the offense is doing.
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The only difference between a 4-3 and a 3-4 is basically how may guys have their hands in the dirt.

Dallas runs a 4-3 defense supposedly but there best LB lines up in 3 point stance rushing the passer 80 percent of the time.

Since we saw what we needed to last year we are going to run with 4-2-5 package I would say 80% to 90% of the time.

Come to think of it with what we are doing in FA right now, don't be too shocked if at #9 we don't pick up the best CB in this draft. There are three guys that are better than Jaylon Johnson right now (*that's saying a whole lot). With Betts and Ringo in the second and third rounds, this could be one of the better CB drafts in a long time.

I actually believe Ringo is a Blue chip prospect and is dropping because of nonfootball issues like attitude. Everything else is there.

Ringo, Gonzales, Porter, and WItherspoon. These three fit exactly what our GM and HC are looking for. In that order I gave. Witherspoon doesn't have the size the other three have.
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Witherspoon could absolutely be the pick at 9.
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EricTighe wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:01 am The only difference between a 4-3 and a 3-4 is basically how may guys have their hands in the dirt.

Dallas runs a 4-3 defense supposedly but there best LB lines up in 3 point stance rushing the passer 80 percent of the time.

Since we saw what we needed to last year we are going to run with 4-2-5 package I would say 80% to 90% of the time.

Come to think of it with what we are doing in FA right now, don't be too shocked if at #9 we don't pick up the best CB in this draft. There are three guys that are better than Jaylon Johnson right now (*that's saying a whole lot). With Betts and Ringo in the second and third rounds, this could be one of the better CB drafts in a long time.

I actually believe Ringo is a Blue chip prospect and is dropping because of nonfootball issues like attitude. Everything else is there.

Ringo, Gonzales, Porter, and WItherspoon. These three fit exactly what our GM and HC are looking for. In that order I gave. Witherspoon doesn't have the size the other three have.
He's 6 foot which is good size for a CB. He's a big as Revis or Ramsey, right? Spoon is a true shut-down corner. I want the Bears to grab Spoon at 9.

What you said is true DCs have gotten more creative with what they do with top talent - and the way they use them can make the defensive formations look non-traditional. But basically the core schemes still are traditional, and GMs draft for types to fill roles even if they only play the core D a third of the time or whatever because most guys are going to line up in certain places/gaps and such that call for certain traits. Parsons being flexible doesn't make them not a 4-3 team.
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West coast guy here so I would prefer Gonzales.

Porter Jr. would be my second guy.

Ringo third.
Witherspoon down here. Loved him when the season began. His lack of size, and lack of speed are concerns. Reminds me of Hargrave in the way I loved them in college just not sure it translates to the NFL as well. Like the kid so hope he proves me wrong. Would love to eat a little crow over this one.
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HEIGHT: 5-11 (41%*) WEIGHT: 181 (10%*)
HANDS: 8 7/8 (36%*) ARM: 31 1/4 (46%*)
SPAN: 75 (49%*)

It's the 180 I do not like.

Short arms I don't care about. But the Bears do. This is why I don't think he is even on their radar.
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Oh yeah
Gonzales is 6'1" 197lbs
Porter Jr is 6'2" 193lbs
Ringo is 6'1" 207LBS

Porter is the only one not to have run a sub 4.4 forty. But 4.46 is more than respectable.

Any of the 4 would be the fastest DB on our team :)
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EricTighe wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:37 am Any of the 4 would be the fastest DB on our team :)
Oh boy... ugh.

Well - that's why it is a need, even if it is overshadowed in discussion by DL talk.
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Can you imagine the level of anger that this board would reach if the Bears take a corner at 9 with all of the other needs on the OL/DL. Woof.

Kinda rooting for it now haha.
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Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't the CB's that fit in our style system not necessarily the most elite cover guys? They have some different traits that value zone coverage and tackling much more than tight man. And those types of CB's can be found in rd2/3 range. It was always a value benefit I saw when looking at roster construct of our defense. We value DT, 3T specifically, much higher than other teams do. And we value WLB much higher than other teams do. But we value CB less than other teams do.

If this entire defense is predicated on generating a pass rush with the front 4, I just can't see spending the 9th pick on a CB. We need guys who can generate pressure from the DL, and we don't have them. I think we're better set against the run up the middle now, but we haven't moved the needle on pass rush at all yet. The focus has to be there AND I think we need to sign a pass rusher Ngakoue even if he's not great. We cannot, I can't stress this enough, we cannot roll into 2023 with Gibson and Robinson as our DE's.
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wab wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:48 am Can you imagine the level of anger that this board would reach if the Bears take a corner at 9 with all of the other needs on the OL/DL? Woof.

Kinda rooting for it now haha.
That depends.. Do you reach for a DE/DT if your top guys are gone because you need one?
or
Do you take the best CB in the draft that can shut down people? In today's schemes, both are important.

Personally, I take the best damn player regardless of need in the first round every flippin' time.


Remember we didn't need Urlacher but we took him because he was the best player on the board. When you don't draft for need you usually end up successful. When you put need first you end up like Ryan Pace.

Remember there is always next year.
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dplank wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:50 am Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't the CB's that fit in our style system not necessarily the most elite cover guys? They have some different traits that value zone coverage and tackling much more than tight man. And those types of CB's can be found in rd2/3 range. It was always a value benefit I saw when looking at roster construct of our defense. We value DT, 3T specifically, much higher than other teams do. And we value WLB much higher than other teams do. But we value CB less than other teams do.

If this entire defense is predicated on generating a pass rush with the front 4, I just can't see spending the 9th pick on a CB. We need guys who can generate pressure from the DL, and we don't have them. I think we're better set against the run up the middle now, but we haven't moved the needle on pass rush at all yet. The focus has to be there AND I think we need to sign a pass rusher Ngakoue even if he's not great. We cannot, I can't stress this enough, we cannot roll into 2023 with Gibson and Robinson as our DE's.
I think in general you're right - with the caveat that most defenses are a lot more flexible and creative these days, and move guys around. Having a play-making, pass-defending shut-down corner for the > 50% of the time they won't be in a straight-up 4-3 / T2 alignment seems like a really good idea.

I hear what Eric T said about Spoon's size and didn't know he was a little under 6' (5'11" 1/2). He's not heavy at 180 but is a really solid tackler - and they have full size, NFL-ready guys in the Big Ten. He doesn't have ideal size but definitely fine. Hopefully the Lions go for measurables at 6 and Spoon is still there for us.

To me, he stands out as being a perfect play-making and aggressive CB for the T2 who also is a very good shut-down type guy who can play press well in addition to zone. 14 pass breakups and 34% completion rate. Measurables are measurables - but what he does as a football player is notable. He's the top CB in many people's opinion for good reason. Eric T said he was slow but Draftbuzz has him at 4.39....

NFL.com:
Witherspoon is a fun watch but requires evaluators to carefully consider his strengths and weaknesses relative to scheme. He plays with anticipation, route feel and a consistent sense of urgency to prevent catches, as displayed by his high number of pass breakups. He plays with ballhawking eyes and good balance from zone coverage and is very aggressive tackling both after the catch and in run support. There are snaps where he gets behind and stays behind due to a lack of premium speed and closing burst, so he might require help over the top or a more zone-oriented scheme to help him shine. The playmaking mentality and traits give him a solid chance to become a CB2 in the league.

Strengths
Allowed completion rate of just 34.9% in 2022, per PFF.
Impressive route recognition and trigger on the throw.
Eyes are probing from off coverages.
Well-balanced defending high/low route concepts from zone.
Instinctive with 14 pass breakups in 2022.
Takes ball-side angles to disrupt the catch point.
Zeroes in on receiver’s hands on deep throws.
Physical with a striker’s mentality in run support and as tackler versus the pass.

Weaknesses
Can be jab-stepped off-balance by release fakes.
Coverage is very handsy after the first five yards.
Sluggish to transition hips and match route breaks from his backpedal.
Top-end speed could be an issue at the next level.
Lacks juice to make up the distance when he gets behind.
Will bite hard on play-action and double moves.
@wab Agreed it will be funny to see the reaction on draft day. It will be real "wrath of God" type stuff.

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IE wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:20 am I think in general you're right - with the caveat that most defenses are a lot more flexible and creative these days, and move guys around. Having a play-making, pass-defending shut-down corner for the > 50% of the time they won't be in a straight-up 4-3 / T2 alignment seems like a really good idea.
I don't think it's the general scheme so much as it is the pass defense scheme. We play far more zone than man under Flus. As such, we aren't really looking for the elite corner with man cover traits--think shut down corner. We're looking more for run stopping and reactive corners. Yes, play-making is part of that, but it's more a function of reading the QB and reacting quickly than it is beating the WR man up. I think that DP is right, those are guys you can find in the second or third rather than the Top 10 of the draft. If a corner is the only option at #9 that fills those traits, I expect us to trade down with a team looking for those rather than picking him ourselves.
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Bears run primarily a 4-2-5
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wulfy wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:09 pm Bears run primarily a 4-2-5
Yep given the number of WR on the field for most plays most 4-3 teams would be a 4-2-5 and most 3-4 teams are more 3-3-5, I'd think.
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wab wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:48 am Can you imagine the level of anger that this board would reach if the Bears take a corner at 9 with all of the other needs on the OL/DL. Woof.

Kinda rooting for it now haha.
Especially given that Gordon was drafted in the second round and JJ is up for an extension.

Yeah.
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Atkins&Rebel wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:50 am Looking back at the LBs signed, and Walker being more of a 5t DE, could we be low-key switching back to a 3-4 base? Or even some kind of 3-4/4-3 hybrid?
Nope. Absolutely not.
EricTighe wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:01 am The only difference between a 4-3 and a 3-4 is basically how may guys have their hands in the dirt.
Well...sorta. There's a bit more going on than just that, though. You need three unicorns to be your starters--if you want a great defense--as one example.
IE wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:52 am I hope not - I hate the 3-4. To me it has always been an abomination. LOL
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wab wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:48 am Can you imagine the level of anger that this board would reach if the Bears take a corner at 9 with all of the other needs on the OL/DL. Woof.

Kinda rooting for it now haha.
If that happened, the level of anger would be nearly unbelievable.

And every bit of it would be deserved.
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Take the best player
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