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dplank
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Two points: 1) Yes, teams jump from last to first all the time in the NFL. That's not an unrealistic objective to have at all. 2) See my prior post for the actual point being made. I'm not being argumentative, I'm honestly curious how you view the specific argument I'm making.

I suppose there's a 3rd point. No one is freaking out, so stop with that pls. Having a minor complaint about one part of Poles plan isn't freaking out FFS. If we want to have smart debate, it starts by trying to understand each other and not make people out to be idiots. If you don't want to have smart debate, that's fine too but just say so I guess and I'll stop trying to have one.
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dplank wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:15 am Two points: 1) Yes, teams jump from last to first all the time in the NFL. That's not an unrealistic objective to have at all. 2) See my prior post for the actual point being made. I'm not being argumentative, I'm honestly curious how you view the specific argument I'm making.

I suppose there's a 3rd point. No one is freaking out, so stop with that pls. Having a minor complaint about one part of Poles plan isn't freaking out FFS. If we want to have smart debate, it starts by trying to understand each other and not make people out to be idiots. If you don't want to have smart debate, that's fine too but just say so I guess and I'll stop trying to have one.
If nobody is freaking out, tell me why it’s brought up by the same 3-4 people every single thread.

If you truly believe this team can compete right now, then you believe they added a ton of talent already in comparison of last season. I think they can compete, and I think they still have holes to fill.

Of the free agents out there, the only one really interesting to me is Justin Houston, relating specifically to the d line, the problem is we don’t know his price or if he even wants to come, that’s the thing with “just go get this guy mentality” they have to want to come and be reasonable. Maybe Houston wants a 4 year big money deal, maybe he wants a known contender. Same for the others.

Poles upgraded the oline, d line, lb’s, wr’s and added more depth to RB and TE. Is there more to be done, sure, but it isn’t magic or voodoo and we can’t keep pretending they aren’t going to count on rookies starting, rotating and competing. 2 d line starters and 1 o line starter is not unreasonable out of the draft.
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southdakbearfan wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:28 am
dplank wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:15 am Two points: 1) Yes, teams jump from last to first all the time in the NFL. That's not an unrealistic objective to have at all. 2) See my prior post for the actual point being made. I'm not being argumentative, I'm honestly curious how you view the specific argument I'm making.

I suppose there's a 3rd point. No one is freaking out, so stop with that pls. Having a minor complaint about one part of Poles plan isn't freaking out FFS. If we want to have smart debate, it starts by trying to understand each other and not make people out to be idiots. If you don't want to have smart debate, that's fine too but just say so I guess and I'll stop trying to have one.
If nobody is freaking out, tell me why it’s brought up by the same 3-4 people every single thread.

If you truly believe this team can compete right now, then you believe they added a ton of talent already in comparison of last season. I think they can compete, and I think they still have holes to fill.

Of the free agents out there, the only one really interesting to me is Justin Houston, relating specifically to the d line, the problem is we don’t know his price or if he even wants to come, that’s the thing with “just go get this guy mentality” they have to want to come and be reasonable. Maybe Houston wants a 4 year big money deal, maybe he wants a known contender. Same for the others.

Poles upgraded the oline, d line, lb’s, wr’s and added more depth to RB and TE. Is there more to be done, sure, but it isn’t magic or voodoo and we can’t keep pretending they aren’t going to count on rookies starting, rotating and competing. 2 d line starters and 1 o line starter is not unreasonable out of the draft.
It keeps getting brought up because no one ever engages on the actual point. I just want to have a smart discussion about one particular part of the plan, and I’m not sure why you don’t. I don’t want to argue, I want to exchange ideas with smart people. Don’t you?

Honest question: If you had to guess at how I would rate Poles off season from 1 to 10, what do you think I’d rate it?

The default around here seems to be if you come with a different opinion on something, then you must argue over it. I just want to talk about the Bears dude, this mindset needs to change.
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southdakbearfan wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:47 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:00 am

Cosigned.

Poles is squandering JF1's rookie deal.

What's the excuse in 2 or 3 years when JF1 comes knocking for his $50M? The time to build a winner is now.

That's also why you make the Jalen Ramsey trade for a third.

Then we have a secondary of:

CB1: Ramsey: Lockdown #1 CB
CB2: JJ who I think is best suited for this.
Slot: Gordon
Safeties: EJax and Brisker.

That's a fucking secondary.

In FA you sign Jones and Ngakoue. You then draft BPA DL at 9 or after a second tradedown. Get a guy like Murphy or Bresee. If you stay at 9 and Carter falls, hot damn how interesting would that be to have Jones and Carter in the middle?

You then have a dominant DL, a dominant secondary, and the LBs are serviceable, but they look better than what they are because the OL doesn't knock them out of every play by getting to the second level of blocking.

You can pressure the QB with consistency. When he passes the ball there's a great chance you can make a play.

But instead Poles sat on his hands and spent money on LBs.
Do you really build a winner in the draft or by signing some overpriced free agents?

This team won 3, 3 games last season. Do you think they are going to jump to 12+ wins. Is fields going to take a Herculean leap or small steps forward? Do you want to extend guys like Mooney, claypool, Kmet or JJt all or just let them go when their contract is up.

We hated Pace and Angelo, with their sign a few guys, plug holes, play cap game extensions, trade draft picks away to “win now” methodology of gming and now that we have a guy doing the opposite it’s a freak out.

This roster is immensely better than last year, and it will get better before the season starts.
Overpriced free agents is a strawman argument.

If the market consistently dictates that quality DTs are now $18M to $20M per year players then that's the market. Go into a steak place and tell them their $50 ribeye is overpriced. They'll tell you to get lost because they've got 100 other customers ready and willing to sit down at their restaurant and order it.

The market dictates the price. If you think that's overpriced that's your opinion just like how I think guys like Payne, Hargrave, and Jones got fair market value.

If MULTIPLE teams are signing DTs to that kind of money that's telling me the market is setting the price.

Of course I believe the Bears can make a quantum leap forward. Add to that the disintegration of the Packers setting the table to make the division much easier.

While JF1 is on the rookie deal, this team must be in Win Now mode. We are saving $50M per year by not having him on a Mega Deal. We are effectively getting many of these roster upgrades for free now because in 3 years that money won't be there.

These are the years where you trade for Jalen Ramey (a third rounder for a lockdown corner, ummmm yes) sign Jones to $20M and go for it.
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Poles has his own philosophy which calls for building the lines primarily through the draft. It looks like he is being true to his beliefs.

That's the most refreshing and exciting thing I can remember coming from a Bears GM.

I will save a seat for you on the bus, plank - and you can have my seat TMP. I can live with standing room only but I think you guys need to really kick back and enjoy the ride.

:welcome:
Last edited by o-pus #40 in B major on Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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southdakbearfan wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:28 am
dplank wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:15 am Two points: 1) Yes, teams jump from last to first all the time in the NFL. That's not an unrealistic objective to have at all. 2) See my prior post for the actual point being made. I'm not being argumentative, I'm honestly curious how you view the specific argument I'm making.

I suppose there's a 3rd point. No one is freaking out, so stop with that pls. Having a minor complaint about one part of Poles plan isn't freaking out FFS. If we want to have smart debate, it starts by trying to understand each other and not make people out to be idiots. If you don't want to have smart debate, that's fine too but just say so I guess and I'll stop trying to have one.
2 d line starters and 1 o line starter is not unreasonable out of the draft.
That's borderline unreasonable IMO. You can get 3-5 starters year 1 starters in a draft but doing it at specific needs will be tough. Poles should/will sign some vets. We can be disappointed he didn't get the "high upside" guys but we don't need to panic and assume he's going to run out a super green squad like last year.
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pus wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:07 am Poles has his own philosophy which calls for building the lines primarily through the draft. It looks like he is being true to his beliefs.

That's the most refreshing and exciting thing I can remember coming from a Bears GM.

I will save a seat for you on the bus, plank - and you can have my seat TMP. I can live with standing room only but I think you guys need to really kick back and enjoy the ride.

:welcome:
I’m already in the bus Pus. That’s what I can’t understand, why if I question one thing out of a hundred does that mean I’m not on the Poles bus? I’ve praised the vast majority of his moves. Is this some kind of 100% litmus test?
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dplank wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:52 am
You are shifting the goal posts here. We’ve covered the high end of the market already, what I’m unhappy with is he isn’t scooping up more decent players at Edwards/wWalker prices at positions that will help us win games. You keep pointing to the high end examples and staking a position I’m not arguing against.

Sign Ngakoue. Sign McGary (past ex). Sign Quinn. Arden Key (another ex). Several more examples. He seems too content to roll into the draft with the worst DL in football, that’s bad strategy and forces either a) you to abandon BPA approach or b) admit you aren’t trying to win in 2023. Because our DL is not competitive no matter how good our second level is. It is a well accepted strategy that you fill your holes before the draft so that you can draft BPA. Poles has left major holes at DE, DT, and RT. That is bad GM work IMO. He has more than enough resources to not have this situation, he just needs to be less complacent.

That is a nuanced, smart discussion we can have and we may still disagree on it. But let’s have a real discussion and not stake out other’s positions for them.
I don't feel like I am shifting anything. But you're arguing multiple things at once here and it feels like they're each independent of context, which doesn't work.

I mean, a player has to want to sign as much as a team has to want to have them. There's nothing to suggest McGary and Key, to use your examples, were interested in the Bears. Throwing more money at them than you value them to be is how you end up with contract anchors on your cap. And the Bears just got rid off most of those; I expect they're in no hurry to replace those albatross with new ones. Nor should they be.

It's also possible that the coaches weren't all that interested in bringing those guys in, whether they wanted to play with the Bears or not. I was on board with signing Andrew Wylie or Andre Dillard at the price point they signed, but Ryan Poles knows the former and Ian Cunningham the latter much better than I ever will, so it's reasonable to think they might have made the right decision there. Similarly, the Key contract seems like a nice calculated risk — one I would probably have taken — but DL coach Travis Smith has insight into him that I'll never have.

Ngakoue is awful vs. run plays, which is part of why he signs late every year — you knowingly create a liability on your team when you play him.

We can all agree the Bears need more bodies on the defensive line and to find a good combination on the offensive line.

Acquisitions still need to fit what the team's scheme and philosophy, though. I think Rasheem Green might be a fit, if both parties are interested. I'd be okay with the Bears bringing Armon Watts back, if both sides are interested. Perhaps A'Shawn Robinson, if both are wolling. But also maybe none of the above, if the numbers and scheme and philosophical approaches are incongruent.
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
:shocked:
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crueltyabc wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:08 am
southdakbearfan wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:28 am

2 d line starters and 1 o line starter is not unreasonable out of the draft.
That's borderline unreasonable IMO. You can get 3-5 starters year 1 starters in a draft but doing it at specific needs will be tough. Poles should/will sign some vets. We can be disappointed he didn't get the "high upside" guys but we don't need to panic and assume he's going to run out a super green squad like last year.
Given the number of early picks they have and that the depth of this draft is in the lines, no it is not unreasonable. If I said we need a starting wr, rt, dt, de, lb and cb and we were going to get them all in the draft, that is unreasonable.

Saying we need a DE, DT, and RT when they have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds and 3 in the top 65 is not unreasonable at all. And it is likely they will increase that number of picks as well.
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Whelp

Rapsheet says the #Steelers agreed to terms with #Eagles G Isaac Seumalo, giving him a 3-year deal for $24M
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LOL the source

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dplank wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:58 am
southdakbearfan wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:28 am

If nobody is freaking out, tell me why it’s brought up by the same 3-4 people every single thread.

If you truly believe this team can compete right now, then you believe they added a ton of talent already in comparison of last season. I think they can compete, and I think they still have holes to fill.

Of the free agents out there, the only one really interesting to me is Justin Houston, relating specifically to the d line, the problem is we don’t know his price or if he even wants to come, that’s the thing with “just go get this guy mentality” they have to want to come and be reasonable. Maybe Houston wants a 4 year big money deal, maybe he wants a known contender. Same for the others.

Poles upgraded the oline, d line, lb’s, wr’s and added more depth to RB and TE. Is there more to be done, sure, but it isn’t magic or voodoo and we can’t keep pretending they aren’t going to count on rookies starting, rotating and competing. 2 d line starters and 1 o line starter is not unreasonable out of the draft.
It keeps getting brought up because no one ever engages on the actual point. I just want to have a smart discussion about one particular part of the plan, and I’m not sure why you don’t. I don’t want to argue, I want to exchange ideas with smart people. Don’t you?

Honest question: If you had to guess at how I would rate Poles off season from 1 to 10, what do you think I’d rate it?

The default around here seems to be if you come with a different opinion on something, then you must argue over it. I just want to talk about the Bears dude, this mindset needs to change.
Who is out there to get that fits what poles is doing, not who fits your own or my narrative, who fits the young, ascending, athletic player mold in the positions of highest need?

He can only get who wants to come here. He is also setting this thing up so if fields doesn’t show more improvement he can move on and have a team built to support another high draft pick qb next season, have the ammo to move up in the draft and have it set up for success vs the debacle pace drafted fields into that set him back. Poles isn’t wasting fields cheap years, pace did that for him already by leaving the absolute mess and total reset job that had to be done.

Now, do I think Fields is the real deal, absolutely, but there is a not insignificant percentage chance that he isn’t. Poles is setting this thing up for the long run here.

Poles isn’t going to blow his cap wad and operate like he has mahomes behind center until he knows he has something for sure. I think he is in on fields 100%, for this season, but make no mistake fields is going to have to show a jump or he will be gone next season or have his replacement drafted sitting behind him.
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dplank wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:15 am Two points: 1) Yes, teams jump from last to first all the time in the NFL. That's not an unrealistic objective to have at all. 2) See my prior post for the actual point being made. I'm not being argumentative, I'm honestly curious how you view the specific argument I'm making.

I suppose there's a 3rd point. No one is freaking out, so stop with that pls. Having a minor complaint about one part of Poles plan isn't freaking out FFS. If we want to have smart debate, it starts by trying to understand each other and not make people out to be idiots. If you don't want to have smart debate, that's fine too but just say so I guess and I'll stop trying to have one.
Wow - now you can't even debate Thunder?

Perhaps look in a mirror just a touch there

Thunder doesn't like my posts (or so it seems - which is a shame to me) - but he's one of the most reasonable guys on the board - whom actually seems to dislike debate generally - He'd rather ignore poorly thought out posts than take them to task (I ummmm.....Disagree on that mentality:) )

Minor complaint is like this move was a debacle/disaster! Poles doesn't want to win!

Whats a major complaint then? Mass murder?
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thunderspirit wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:47 am
dplank wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:52 am
You are shifting the goal posts here. We’ve covered the high end of the market already, what I’m unhappy with is he isn’t scooping up more decent players at Edwards/wWalker prices at positions that will help us win games. You keep pointing to the high end examples and staking a position I’m not arguing against.

Sign Ngakoue. Sign McGary (past ex). Sign Quinn. Arden Key (another ex). Several more examples. He seems too content to roll into the draft with the worst DL in football, that’s bad strategy and forces either a) you to abandon BPA approach or b) admit you aren’t trying to win in 2023. Because our DL is not competitive no matter how good our second level is. It is a well accepted strategy that you fill your holes before the draft so that you can draft BPA. Poles has left major holes at DE, DT, and RT. That is bad GM work IMO. He has more than enough resources to not have this situation, he just needs to be less complacent.

That is a nuanced, smart discussion we can have and we may still disagree on it. But let’s have a real discussion and not stake out other’s positions for them.
I don't feel like I am shifting anything. But you're arguing multiple things at once here and it feels like they're each independent of context, which doesn't work.

I mean, a player has to want to sign as much as a team has to want to have them. There's nothing to suggest McGary and Key, to use your examples, were interested in the Bears. Throwing more money at them than you value them to be is how you end up with contract anchors on your cap. And the Bears just got rid off most of those; I expect they're in no hurry to replace those albatross with new ones. Nor should they be.

It's also possible that the coaches weren't all that interested in bringing those guys in, whether they wanted to play with the Bears or not. I was on board with signing Andrew Wylie or Andre Dillard at the price point they signed, but Ryan Poles knows the former and Ian Cunningham the latter much better than I ever will, so it's reasonable to think they might have made the right decision there. Similarly, the Key contract seems like a nice calculated risk — one I would probably have taken — but DL coach Travis Smith has insight into him that I'll never have.

Ngakoue is awful vs. run plays, which is part of why he signs late every year — you knowingly create a liability on your team when you play him.

We can all agree the Bears need more bodies on the defensive line and to find a good combination on the offensive line.

Acquisitions still need to fit what the team's scheme and philosophy, though. I think Rasheem Green might be a fit, if both parties are interested. I'd be okay with the Bears bringing Armon Watts back, if both sides are interested. Perhaps A'Shawn Robinson, if both are wolling. But also maybe none of the above, if the numbers and scheme and philosophical approaches are incongruent.


Now having said that - Did not like that Dillard contract Thunder - would have avoided it
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dplank wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:44 am
pus wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:07 am Poles has his own philosophy which calls for building the lines primarily through the draft. It looks like he is being true to his beliefs.

That's the most refreshing and exciting thing I can remember coming from a Bears GM.

I will save a seat for you on the bus, plank - and you can have my seat TMP. I can live with standing room only but I think you guys need to really kick back and enjoy the ride.

:welcome:
I’m already in the bus Pus. That’s what I can’t understand, why if I question one thing out of a hundred does that mean I’m not on the Poles bus? I’ve praised the vast majority of his moves. Is this some kind of 100% litmus test?
You posted your 95 Thesis of why Poles was blowing it though - If you think you've only had one minor quibble with Poles - then it must be nice not to read Dplank posts.

He got taken to task for not signing Hayden Hurst
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:04 pm Why not just go out and sign Ngakoue? It fixes a DE spot. He's still out there.
Teams sadly are still allowed to run the football
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dplank wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:58 am
southdakbearfan wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:28 am

If nobody is freaking out, tell me why it’s brought up by the same 3-4 people every single thread.

If you truly believe this team can compete right now, then you believe they added a ton of talent already in comparison of last season. I think they can compete, and I think they still have holes to fill.

Of the free agents out there, the only one really interesting to me is Justin Houston, relating specifically to the d line, the problem is we don’t know his price or if he even wants to come, that’s the thing with “just go get this guy mentality” they have to want to come and be reasonable. Maybe Houston wants a 4 year big money deal, maybe he wants a known contender. Same for the others.

Poles upgraded the oline, d line, lb’s, wr’s and added more depth to RB and TE. Is there more to be done, sure, but it isn’t magic or voodoo and we can’t keep pretending they aren’t going to count on rookies starting, rotating and competing. 2 d line starters and 1 o line starter is not unreasonable out of the draft.
It keeps getting brought up because no one ever engages on the actual point. I just want to have a smart discussion about one particular part of the plan, and I’m not sure why you don’t. I don’t want to argue, I want to exchange ideas with smart people. Don’t you?

Honest question: If you had to guess at how I would rate Poles off season from 1 to 10, what do you think I’d rate it?

The default around here seems to be if you come with a different opinion on something, then you must argue over it. I just want to talk about the Bears dude, this mindset needs to change.
I think it’s a bit of a fallacy to ‘rate on off season’ because it removes the context within which it’s occurred.

I think if you asked Poles team to rate the off season they’d say 9/10.
Not perfect, it never will be, but everything has gone according to their plan.

Like I say, 12 mths ago we had minimal cap space and minimal draft picks.
We have completely turned that around.
So stick to the plan which got us here.

Keep doing the right things. It’s tough, it feels like opportunities are being missed.

But it’s getting the organisation into good habits and sticking to them.
That’s what they’re doing in my opinion.

It may not help protect Fields, but Fields is a tough bastard. He can handle himself.
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:57 am
dplank wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:58 am

It keeps getting brought up because no one ever engages on the actual point. I just want to have a smart discussion about one particular part of the plan, and I’m not sure why you don’t. I don’t want to argue, I want to exchange ideas with smart people. Don’t you?

Honest question: If you had to guess at how I would rate Poles off season from 1 to 10, what do you think I’d rate it?

The default around here seems to be if you come with a different opinion on something, then you must argue over it. I just want to talk about the Bears dude, this mindset needs to change.
I think it’s a bit of a fallacy to ‘rate on off season’ because it removes the context within which it’s occurred.

I think if you asked Poles team to rate the off season they’d say 9/10.
Not perfect, it never will be, but everything has gone according to their plan.

Like I say, 12 mths ago we had minimal cap space and minimal draft picks.
We have completely turned that around.
So stick to the plan which got us here.

Keep doing the right things. It’s tough, it feels like opportunities are being missed.

But it’s getting the organisation into good habits and sticking to them.
That’s what they’re doing in my opinion.

It may not help protect Fields, but Fields is a tough bastard. He can handle himself.
Since its my job and all: 12 Months ago we were NOT hurting for Cap Space!

But going into FA last year our needs were legion.

By the time the draft rolls around - where AGAIN - we have a Top 10 Pick, 2 2nds, High 3rd, AND 2 4ths - the needs have been whittled down considerably
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RichH55 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:59 am
Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:57 am

I think it’s a bit of a fallacy to ‘rate on off season’ because it removes the context within which it’s occurred.

I think if you asked Poles team to rate the off season they’d say 9/10.
Not perfect, it never will be, but everything has gone according to their plan.

Like I say, 12 mths ago we had minimal cap space and minimal draft picks.
We have completely turned that around.
So stick to the plan which got us here.

Keep doing the right things. It’s tough, it feels like opportunities are being missed.

But it’s getting the organisation into good habits and sticking to them.
That’s what they’re doing in my opinion.

It may not help protect Fields, but Fields is a tough bastard. He can handle himself.
Since its my job and all: 12 Months ago we were NOT hurting for Cap Space!
Sorry RichH, have to disagree.
If that’s all you’re picking up though I consider that a win :thumbsup:
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RichH55
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:57 pm
RichH55 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:59 am

Since its my job and all: 12 Months ago we were NOT hurting for Cap Space!
Sorry RichH, have to disagree.
If that’s all you’re picking up though I consider that a win :thumbsup:

We absolutely had PLENTY of Cap Space (Literally there was NOT 1 FA signed last year that you couldn't have fit their deal under our Cap Last year )

And that's before you factor in how the Cap actually works - I.E. IF (and again this was NOT us) a team has 5 million free in 2022 but 135 Free in 2023 - then realistically they have a ton of Cap Room in 2022 as well - just spend the extra 5 min to write the contract properly


But Im a BIG Poles fan (Insert Polecats joke?). I'm not calling him a liar about Roquon or questioning why we didn't overpay Bates or didnt sign Hayden Hurst or saying Jones the LT is really more like Borom, etc. etc

He just did a rebuild in ultra quick time - NAILED the 1st pick trade down (while noting that getting the 1st pick overall was a feather in his Cap to begin with)


But yeah - we had a good Cap situation last year too. Sorry man
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IF - and its a SIZEABLE IF - they think Jenkins can play RT

That means we go into the draft with the following 2023 Needs (granted longer term playing IS needed)
- DL
- 3rd CB
- Backups

End List
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:06 am
southdakbearfan wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:47 am

Do you really build a winner in the draft or by signing some overpriced free agents?

This team won 3, 3 games last season. Do you think they are going to jump to 12+ wins. Is fields going to take a Herculean leap or small steps forward? Do you want to extend guys like Mooney, claypool, Kmet or JJt all or just let them go when their contract is up.

We hated Pace and Angelo, with their sign a few guys, plug holes, play cap game extensions, trade draft picks away to “win now” methodology of gming and now that we have a guy doing the opposite it’s a freak out.

This roster is immensely better than last year, and it will get better before the season starts.
Overpriced free agents is a strawman argument.

If the market consistently dictates that quality DTs are now $18M to $20M per year players then that's the market. Go into a steak place and tell them their $50 ribeye is overpriced. They'll tell you to get lost because they've got 100 other customers ready and willing to sit down at their restaurant and order it.

The market dictates the price. If you think that's overpriced that's your opinion just like how I think guys like Payne, Hargrave, and Jones got fair market value.

If MULTIPLE teams are signing DTs to that kind of money that's telling me the market is setting the price.

Of course I believe the Bears can make a quantum leap forward. Add to that the disintegration of the Packers setting the table to make the division much easier.

While JF1 is on the rookie deal, this team must be in Win Now mode. We are saving $50M per year by not having him on a Mega Deal. We are effectively getting many of these roster upgrades for free now because in 3 years that money won't be there.

These are the years where you trade for Jalen Ramey (a third rounder for a lockdown corner, ummmm yes) sign Jones to $20M and go for it.

It’s not a straw man argument, it’s a recognition of history. History clearly demonstrates that spending big money in free agency is not how you build a successful and sustainable franchise. Frequently, teams end up regretting their big ticket signings. I believe the Patriots just traded away their last big free agent signing for a 7th round pick when they uncharacteristically spent heavily in free agency.

Also, I think there is a delusion or failure to recognize where this team is at. If they spent recklessly, traded away the future, and had good luck health wise they might be able to win a playoff game next year.

But as we saw in 2018, it’d be fool’s gold and trading away the future prevents you from properly building for the future.

You have to lay the foundation before you start building the house. The Pace era left the roster with very little talent and almost no blue chip players. They are not one or two players away from being contenders. They need starters and better depth in lots of areas.

It’s crazy to me that we literally just saw this approach with Ryan Pace completely fail and get him fired and people are lamenting Poles not following this just failed model.
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RichH55 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:23 pm IF - and its a SIZEABLE IF - they think Jenkins can play RT

That means we go into the draft with the following 2023 Needs (granted longer term playing IS needed)
- DL
- 3rd CB
- Backups

End List
Even if Jenkins can play RT, given his injury history (he’s only played more than 50% of the snaps in 11 games) they’ll still need another RT.
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TheWorldBreaker wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:32 pm
RichH55 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:23 pm IF - and its a SIZEABLE IF - they think Jenkins can play RT

That means we go into the draft with the following 2023 Needs (granted longer term playing IS needed)
- DL
- 3rd CB
- Backups

End List
Even if Jenkins can play RT, given his injury history (he’s only played more than 50% of the snaps in 11 games) they’ll still need another RT.
Not Unfair - Need might be something of a stretch though

But compared to last year - the needs (despite some saying the Sky is Falling) are WAY down
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TheWorldBreaker wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:31 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:06 am

Overpriced free agents is a strawman argument.

If the market consistently dictates that quality DTs are now $18M to $20M per year players then that's the market. Go into a steak place and tell them their $50 ribeye is overpriced. They'll tell you to get lost because they've got 100 other customers ready and willing to sit down at their restaurant and order it.

The market dictates the price. If you think that's overpriced that's your opinion just like how I think guys like Payne, Hargrave, and Jones got fair market value.

If MULTIPLE teams are signing DTs to that kind of money that's telling me the market is setting the price.

Of course I believe the Bears can make a quantum leap forward. Add to that the disintegration of the Packers setting the table to make the division much easier.

While JF1 is on the rookie deal, this team must be in Win Now mode. We are saving $50M per year by not having him on a Mega Deal. We are effectively getting many of these roster upgrades for free now because in 3 years that money won't be there.

These are the years where you trade for Jalen Ramey (a third rounder for a lockdown corner, ummmm yes) sign Jones to $20M and go for it.

It’s not a straw man argument, it’s a recognition of history. History clearly demonstrates that spending big money in free agency is not how you build a successful and sustainable franchise. Frequently, teams end up regretting their big ticket signings. I believe the Patriots just traded away their last big free agent signing for a 7th round pick when they uncharacteristically spent heavily in free agency.

Also, I think there is a delusion or failure to recognize where this team is at. If they spent recklessly, traded away the future, and had good luck health wise they might be able to win a playoff game next year.

But as we saw in 2018, it’d be fool’s gold and trading away the future prevents you from properly building for the future.

You have to lay the foundation before you start building the house. The Pace era left the roster with very little talent and almost no blue chip players. They are not one or two players away from being contenders. They need starters and better depth in lots of areas.

It’s crazy to me that we literally just saw this approach with Ryan Pace completely fail and get him fired and people are lamenting Poles not following this just failed model.
And yet there's also teams who toil away the right way and regret thier failed draft picks L.

Theres no right way. There's leveraging the all the available tools and doing it well or not.
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We tend to forget that this team had the first pick this year because they were the WORST IN THE LEAGUE.

A move to 7 wins this year would be a monumental leap.
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At least one team goes worst to first almost every year Wulfy, no reason why that can't be us. We have the QB, we are moving into the 2nd year of both our O and D schemes so will see improvement just from that. We played more rookies than anyone, so we will see improvement from that. And we have increased our talent level a lot this offseason.

I don't see any issue with plugging a few extra holes with quality vets before we go into the draft to hedge our bets and allow more freedom to draft BPA.
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I found this interesting tidbit, I hadn’t seen it years prior so I don’t know how accurate the estimate is.

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Interesting table, I suppose when you have the worst record in the NFL and a bunch of free agents you’ve got the most scope to improve
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Interesting metric.
However, it corresponds fairly well to inverse of how they finished last year, which isn't terribly informative.

Bad teams get more draft capital. Winning teams have to let more quality free agents go, due to having more quality and tighter caps.
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