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Yogi da Bear
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dplank wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:47 am I genuinely believe that a good RT helps us score 40 per game more than Robinson would. And I don’t think it’s even close honestly.
I personally don't see how Robinson is much different than Monty. Remember, after Monty started working on his speed, his trainer said that he'd brought his 40 down to a 4.45. Robinson ran a 4.46 at the Combine. Don't forget that Monty has been injured the past two years and has come back much sooner than expected from them. I believe that these injuries probably affected his speed for the rest of the two seasons. Also, Robinson gets three or four yards before he's even contacted. Monty typically got hit as soon as he got the ball. Like to see how quick Robinson is in those situations.

This is why I believe that DP is right. A RT will do much more for this offense than a RB. Backs will have a chance to get far more yardage and to display their speed if they aren't getting hit as soon as they get the ball. Of course, I believe that Jenkins can be that RT. I'd like to see him get the chance. It certainly wasn't his run blocking that had us move him to RG.

Again, for those of you who wanted Monty gone because he didn't have the breakaway speed, I don't see how you could clamor for Bijan at #9? There are backs with a whole lot more speed than him in this draft.
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:28 pm
dplank wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:47 am I genuinely believe that a good RT helps us score 40 per game more than Robinson would. And I don’t think it’s even close honestly.
I personally don't see how Robinson is much different than Monty. Remember, after Monty started working on his speed, his trainer said that he'd brought his 40 down to a 4.45. Robinson ran a 4.46 at the Combine. Don't forget that Monty has been injured the past two years and has come back much sooner than expected from them. I believe that these injuries probably affected his speed for the rest of the two seasons. Also, Robinson gets three or four yards before he's even contacted. Monty typically got hit as soon as he got the ball. Like to see how quick Robinson is in those situations.

This is why I believe that DP is right. A RT will do much more for this offense than a RB. Backs will have a chance to get far more yardage and to display their speed if they aren't getting hit as soon as they get the ball. Of course, I believe that Jenkins can be that RT. I'd like to see him get the chance. It certainly wasn't his run blocking that had us move him to RG.

Again, for those of you who wanted Monty gone because he didn't have the breakaway speed, I don't see how you could clamor for Bijan at #9? There are backs with a whole lot more speed than him in this draft.
I don't think we can exactly take the Trainer's word for it.

And Herbert had different numbers than Montgomery here - so it's not all that hard to see how it could be different with an even more talented back

I sadly -because I like the way he competes and his game "looks" good - have come around to Moriaritys way of thinking (to an extent! Not full bore) on Montgomery being overrated and leaving yards on the field with his style
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Though also - very much put down as against Robinson at 9

Even after a trade down I'm probably a Hard Sell to be honest
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RichH55 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:35 pm Though also - very much put down as against Robinson at 9

Even after a trade down I'm probably a Hard Sell to be honest
Depends on how far and who is on the board then. A trade to about 15 COULD have me buy in that he should be the pick.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:59 pm
RichH55 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:35 pm Though also - very much put down as against Robinson at 9

Even after a trade down I'm probably a Hard Sell to be honest
Depends on how far and who is on the board then. A trade to about 15 COULD have me buy in that he should be the pick.
Any trade down helps (TRADE DOWNS TEND TO BE A GOOD THING)

But even assuming a trade down and at pick 15 - I still couldn't pick Robinson
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RichH55 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:34 pm
Yogi da Bear wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:28 pm

I personally don't see how Robinson is much different than Monty. Remember, after Monty started working on his speed, his trainer said that he'd brought his 40 down to a 4.45. Robinson ran a 4.46 at the Combine. Don't forget that Monty has been injured the past two years and has come back much sooner than expected from them. I believe that these injuries probably affected his speed for the rest of the two seasons. Also, Robinson gets three or four yards before he's even contacted. Monty typically got hit as soon as he got the ball. Like to see how quick Robinson is in those situations.

This is why I believe that DP is right. A RT will do much more for this offense than a RB. Backs will have a chance to get far more yardage and to display their speed if they aren't getting hit as soon as they get the ball. Of course, I believe that Jenkins can be that RT. I'd like to see him get the chance. It certainly wasn't his run blocking that had us move him to RG.

Again, for those of you who wanted Monty gone because he didn't have the breakaway speed, I don't see how you could clamor for Bijan at #9? There are backs with a whole lot more speed than him in this draft.
I don't think we can exactly take the Trainer's word for it.

I'm not in for Bijan, but I will echo the bogusness of the 4.45 claim.

What happened was, his speed coach said - "Well, he hasn't actually run a 40 or anything, but if you'd like to let me advertise myself by completely pulling a number out of my ass, I'll give you 4.44."

https://www.bleachernation.com/bears/20 ... ing-speed/
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If you're going to put something somebody else said in quotes, you really should stay true to what he actually said and not use sarcasm within the quotes. What he said was:
Since he started working with (speed trainer Chris) Korfist, Montgomery hasn’t run a true timed 40-yard dash. But Korfist estimates that Montgomery is now at a 4.44 mark, a vast improvement from the 4.63 he clocked at the NFL Combine in 2019. Montgomery has added 1.5 miles per hour to his speed since he began with Korfist a year ago.
I'll take that, and he most certainly was much faster than he was as a rookie and before he got injured in 2021:

https://www.nfl.com/videos/david-montgo ... ame-week-1

Pretty much looks like Bijan Robinson to me.
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:52 pm If you're going to put something somebody else said in quotes, you really should stay true to what he actually said and not use sarcasm within the quotes. What he said was:
Since he started working with (speed trainer Chris) Korfist, Montgomery hasn’t run a true timed 40-yard dash. But Korfist estimates that Montgomery is now at a 4.44 mark, a vast improvement from the 4.63 he clocked at the NFL Combine in 2019. Montgomery has added 1.5 miles per hour to his speed since he began with Korfist a year ago.
I'll take that, and he most certainly was much faster than he was as a rookie and before he got injured in 2021:

https://www.nfl.com/videos/david-montgo ... ame-week-1

Pretty much looks like Bijan Robinson to me.
This is going to be comping Mooney to Ty Hill all over again
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:52 pm If you're going to put something somebody else said in quotes, you really should stay true to what he actually said and not use sarcasm within the quotes.
I included the link, so anyone could see the original quote and full context.
It should be clear from the flippant tone that it wasn't a literal quote and I fully stand behind my translation as how any knowledgeable and reasonable person would read it.
Yogi da Bear wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:52 pm
Since he started working with (speed trainer Chris) Korfist, Montgomery hasn’t run a true timed 40-yard dash. But Korfist estimates that Montgomery is now at a 4.44 mark, a vast improvement from the 4.63 he clocked at the NFL Combine in 2019. Montgomery has added 1.5 miles per hour to his speed since he began with Korfist a year ago.
I'll take that
Take that how? If you're taking it as anything except propogandist bullshit, you're being taken in.

Yogi da Bear wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:52 pm https://www.nfl.com/videos/david-montgo ... ame-week-1

Pretty much looks like Bijan Robinson to me.
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dplank wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:08 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:41 am

?

Mitch has been a more successful QB in the NFL than any of the top 4 QBs being discussed.
He's got you there wab.
No he doesn't. He's proving WAB's point for him. There's no guarantee that any college prospect will pan out, or even reach starter status in the NFL. Mitch has at least won NFL football games, and taken his team to the playoffs. See Cade McNown, Ryan Leaf, and about 40 other "can't miss QB prospects" as example.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:21 am
dplank wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:08 am

He's got you there wab.
No he doesn't. He's proving WAB's point for him. There's no guarantee that any college prospect will pan out, or even reach starter status in the NFL. Mitch has at least won NFL football games, and taken his team to the playoffs. See Cade McNown, Ryan Leaf, and about 40 other "can't miss QB prospects" as example.
I think you've transposed wab's and TMP's arguments bud. Or maybe I have :?

I agree there's no guarantees on prospects of course. I found wab's post, partially in jest I assume, that Jones has accomplished more that Paris has in the NFL as just an odd comment that was easily swatted by TMP by countering with the Trubisky examply. Meaning - yes, of course Jones has because he's actually played some, just like Trubisky has played and Young/Stroud haven't. But that in no way should mean that Trubisky can't be moved to a backup or have competition from a Young/Stroud, so why would that same logic not apply for Braxton Jones? But I'm not here to referee their discussion.
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dplank wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:35 am
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:21 am

No he doesn't. He's proving WAB's point for him. There's no guarantee that any college prospect will pan out, or even reach starter status in the NFL. Mitch has at least won NFL football games, and taken his team to the playoffs. See Cade McNown, Ryan Leaf, and about 40 other "can't miss QB prospects" as example.
I think you've transposed wab's and TMP's arguments bud. Or maybe I have :?

I agree there's no guarantees on prospects of course. I found wab's post, partially in jest I assume, that Jones has accomplished more that Paris has in the NFL as just an odd comment that was easily swatted by TMP by countering with the Trubisky examply. Meaning - yes, of course Jones has because he's actually played some, just like Trubisky has played and Young/Stroud haven't. But that in no way should mean that Trubisky can't be moved to a backup or have competition from a Young/Stroud, so why would that same logic not apply for Braxton Jones? But I'm not here to referee their discussion.
I have no idea if wab was fucking with me or not, but these allegiances to middle of the road or unproven players needs to stop.

We were 3-14 last year. So bad that we got the #1 overall pick.

Yet if one were to parse through this board you’d swear that Braxton Jones was Anthony Munoz and Jack Sanborn was Chuck Norris in shoulder pads.

Even a normal football team has competition at every position. Let alone one that sucks.

I just don’t see Jones as this sacred figure. People have dug in their heels and are like this guy is the LT of the future.

Well OK maybe he is. But if we draft a guy like Paris Johnson, he had better damn well give Jones a run for his money in camp at a minimum and outright just take his job at the other end.

I’m not trying to shit on Braxton Jones. I’m just saying he’s no different than the other guys on the field and if we spend a 9 overall draft choice on a tackle I would be inclined to think that prospect is a stud.
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I do not like any scenario that takes a RB in the first round. But that is just my opinion. Good RBs can be found in later rounds. Plus with Herbert and Foreman they only need an RB3 now.
OL and DL are bigger need at the moment. Again, just my opinion.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:54 am
dplank wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:35 am

I think you've transposed wab's and TMP's arguments bud. Or maybe I have :?

I agree there's no guarantees on prospects of course. I found wab's post, partially in jest I assume, that Jones has accomplished more that Paris has in the NFL as just an odd comment that was easily swatted by TMP by countering with the Trubisky examply. Meaning - yes, of course Jones has because he's actually played some, just like Trubisky has played and Young/Stroud haven't. But that in no way should mean that Trubisky can't be moved to a backup or have competition from a Young/Stroud, so why would that same logic not apply for Braxton Jones? But I'm not here to referee their discussion.
I have no idea if wab was fucking with me or not, but these allegiances to middle of the road or unproven players needs to stop.

We were 3-14 last year. So bad that we got the #1 overall pick.

Yet if one were to parse through this board you’d swear that Braxton Jones was Anthony Munoz and Jack Sanborn was Chuck Norris in shoulder pads.

Even a normal football team has competition at every position. Let alone one that sucks.

I just don’t see Jones as this sacred figure. People have dug in their heels and are like this guy is the LT of the future.

Well OK maybe he is. But if we draft a guy like Paris Johnson, he had better damn well give Jones a run for his money in camp at a minimum and outright just take his job at the other end.

I’m not trying to shit on Braxton Jones. I’m just saying he’s no different than the other guys on the field and if we spend a 9 overall draft choice on a tackle I would be inclined to think that prospect is a stud.
Well.

Braxton held down the LT job for his rookie season so it's his position to lose - the coaches should honor that but let the rook compete for that spot first thing in camp - best man wins.

And let them both know about their competition ahead of time so they can be ready to compete.

I think that process might provide an ultimately positive outcome for all concerned.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:54 am
dplank wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:35 am

I think you've transposed wab's and TMP's arguments bud. Or maybe I have :?

I agree there's no guarantees on prospects of course. I found wab's post, partially in jest I assume, that Jones has accomplished more that Paris has in the NFL as just an odd comment that was easily swatted by TMP by countering with the Trubisky examply. Meaning - yes, of course Jones has because he's actually played some, just like Trubisky has played and Young/Stroud haven't. But that in no way should mean that Trubisky can't be moved to a backup or have competition from a Young/Stroud, so why would that same logic not apply for Braxton Jones? But I'm not here to referee their discussion.
I have no idea if wab was fucking with me or not, but these allegiances to middle of the road or unproven players needs to stop.

We were 3-14 last year. So bad that we got the #1 overall pick.

Yet if one were to parse through this board you’d swear that Braxton Jones was Anthony Munoz and Jack Sanborn was Chuck Norris in shoulder pads.

Even a normal football team has competition at every position. Let alone one that sucks.

I just don’t see Jones as this sacred figure. People have dug in their heels and are like this guy is the LT of the future.

Well OK maybe he is. But if we draft a guy like Paris Johnson, he had better damn well give Jones a run for his money in camp at a minimum and outright just take his job at the other end.

I’m not trying to shit on Braxton Jones. I’m just saying he’s no different than the other guys on the field and if we spend a 9 overall draft choice on a tackle I would be inclined to think that prospect is a stud.
Jones isn't a sacred figure - and Right Tackle can absolutely be in the cards for him. Though I'd argue thats more as to the FA Day 1 period than draft. (*)

(*) If you draft a kid like Paris - he can ALSO play RT - the easier position for a rookie to boot. Moving your Rookie to LT and your LT to RT seems a suboptimal way to do it when you don't have to IMHO


No One is saying Braxton Jones is Anthony Munoz - When people want to - unfairly I would say - detract from Braxton they DO call him Larry Borom/Jordan Mills though.

You Need 2 Legit OT in today's game (ideally both would be LT good - but that is very, very, very hard to get - it is absolutely the EXCEPTION not the Rule)

Braxton is one of them.
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pus wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:58 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:54 am

I have no idea if wab was fucking with me or not, but these allegiances to middle of the road or unproven players needs to stop.

We were 3-14 last year. So bad that we got the #1 overall pick.

Yet if one were to parse through this board you’d swear that Braxton Jones was Anthony Munoz and Jack Sanborn was Chuck Norris in shoulder pads.

Even a normal football team has competition at every position. Let alone one that sucks.

I just don’t see Jones as this sacred figure. People have dug in their heels and are like this guy is the LT of the future.

Well OK maybe he is. But if we draft a guy like Paris Johnson, he had better damn well give Jones a run for his money in camp at a minimum and outright just take his job at the other end.

I’m not trying to shit on Braxton Jones. I’m just saying he’s no different than the other guys on the field and if we spend a 9 overall draft choice on a tackle I would be inclined to think that prospect is a stud.
Well.

Braxton held down the LT job for his rookie season so it's his position to lose - the coaches should honor that but let the rook compete for that spot first thing in camp - best man wins.

And let them both know about their competition ahead of time so they can be ready to compete.

I think that process might provide an ultimately positive outcome for all concerned.
That's exactly where I am. Let the best man win.
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Let the best man win is usually a pretty solid concept. If we draft a T, I just want to draft whoever Poles thinks is the best one. I don't care if he projects him to the right side or left side, just whoever is the best player. Then let the chips fall where they may. Maybe the rookie starts at LT and Jones moves to right. Maybe Jones stays at LT and the rookie plays RT. I really don't care either way. I just want two good tackles.
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RichH55 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:13 pm
Jones isn't a sacred figure
But Jack is
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:39 pm
RichH55 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:13 pm
Jones isn't a sacred figure
But Jack is
Well he picked his enemies smartly;)
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It was posited here by Yogi that Moriarty views Montgomery as overrated. Ya know, I like Monty, but I’ll get on Moriarty’s bus. I liked Monty’s toughnesss, pass-blocking skills and receiving ability. We can argue all day over a marginal difference in speed and timed speed. You won’t know unless you line them all up, IN PADS and race them. Not going to happen. However, behind the same line, in similar situations, Herbert’s explosiveness jumps off the page, sorta like Pollard vs Zeke over the last year or two.

“Leaving yards on the field.” This is the rub for me. From what I’ve seen, in almost James Allen fashion, Monty is hopping and cutting as soon as he gets the football, even when there isn’t somebody already breaking through the line to tackle him. I can’t tell you how many times I would scream at the TV when Monty got the ball because I’d see the crease and he’d hop the other way and get killed. And he’s just not very sudden, so it compounds the problem. He’s dead in the water. To some extent, I felt Thomas Jones did this a little bit too, but was able to get past it and become a much more decisive running back.

On the other topic (Robinson at 9 vs PJJ): Boy, if PJJ is there I’m in, and I don’t care which side of the line you put him on. Granted, the dude excelled last year as a LT at OSU, and BJones was barely acceptable at LT last year. Keeping him there and PJJ at RT this season isn’t problematic to me. BJones will need to take a really nice step up. And I think he can. Also, I think he stands a better chance for success at LT than he does on the right side, where his lack of strength vs bull rushes is more likely to be exposed, since he’d be facing the defense’s LDE, which is usually more of the power guy than the speed guy in traditional sets (it’s not like that uniformly across the NFL anymore but it is more prevalent).

There are probably 3-4 guys I’d be really thrilled with there, including the other BJones (LOL), PJJ, Tyree WIlson and maybe one or two others.
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Monty was an average RB who never took over games. There's also no reason to stack the box when he was in the game. Max effort guy. Nice guy. But not a primary back in an offense that wants to be high functioning.
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If there is a Tackle worth taking in the top 10 then get him. I don't think there is. Which means we are reaching. There is potential though. Paris is by far the most ready right now.

Take the best player available and don't reach for need. We have too many holes to think reaching for anybody is a smart move. Especially in the first round. We need players per and simple. Once this happens we can get creative.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:49 am Monty was an average RB who never took over games. There's also no reason to stack the box when he was in the game. Max effort guy. Nice guy. But not a primary back in an offense that wants to be high functioning.
I love Monty like a son. But I don't think I would have paid him his Detroit contract. I think I'd've maxed out at roughly 2% of the cap, around $4.5M.

As I said when he signed with the Lions, good on him for getting paid. I will wish him well 15 out of 17 games for the next couple of seasons.
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
:shocked:
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thunderspirit wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:16 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:49 am Monty was an average RB who never took over games. There's also no reason to stack the box when he was in the game. Max effort guy. Nice guy. But not a primary back in an offense that wants to be high functioning.
I love Monty like a son. But I don't think I would have paid him his Detroit contract. I think I'd've maxed out at roughly 2% of the cap, around $4.5M.

As I said when he signed with the Lions, good on him for getting paid. I will wish him well 15 out of 17 games for the next couple of seasons.
Monty is absolutely not worth what Detroit paid him.

I know why Dan Campbell loves him. Monty grinds. That guy gave everything he had on every run. The problem is that he's average.

I wish him well too. I'm not trying to shit on him whatsoever. I'm just saying he's not the RB we need.
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I sure hope you all apologize when Monty runs for more yards, more scores, and a better YPC than Bijan does. ;)

And let me be the first to say (I think) that I don't want to see Jones move to RT under any circumstance. He strikes a bit like Leno in that he's much better on the left than the right side. I mean, so he has a problem with bullrushes, so you want to put him on the right side where the big, brawly, bullrushes are most often located? Doesn't seem like a smart move to me.
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Kiper just dropped another 2 round mock draft. His Bear picks include:

Rnd 1, Pick 9: Darnell Wright, OT, Tennessee
Rnd 2, Pick 53: B. J. Ojulari, LSU
Rnd 3, Pick 61: Jaquelin Roy, DT, LSU. A sleeper who's rising up draft boards. A NT in college but would be projected as a 3T in Chicago's defense.
6'3", 305 lb, 12.5 sacks the past 2 years
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I like Darnell Wright but 9 seems a bit bold for him.

I like BJ Ojulari but not sure he’s a scheme fit.

Not a big fan of Roy in R2, I think there are better options.

It’s a C- for this mock from me. No value in his selections
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Grizzled wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:54 am Kiper just dropped another 2 round mock draft. His Bear picks include:

Rnd 1, Pick 9: Darnell Wright, OT, Tennessee
Rnd 2, Pick 53: B. J. Ojulari, LSU
Rnd 3, Pick 61: Jaquelin Roy, DT, LSU. A sleeper who's rising up draft boards. A NT in college but would be projected as a 3T in Chicago's defense.
6'3", 305 lb, 12.5 sacks the past 2 years
I'd be down with Wright and Ojulari although neither seems to fit the traits that Poles/Flus seem to prefer. Wright doesn't have the open space and movement skills but he's damn effective as a pass blocker and I think his run blocking can develop.

As for Ojulari: I appreciate that his body type and skillset are not a perfect scheme fit buth then again, I do think he'd be a nice pass rush specialist who would compliment all the big bodied guys (Walker, Green, J. Jones, Gibson.) Ojulari would offerthe current defensive line some things it currently lacks: speed, bend and the best arsenal of pass rush moves in the class. For the record: he's not a bad run defender either... not to mention the blood lines.

I haven't looked into Roy very much but have noticed him climbing. Will need to explore further.

I wouldn't hate this draft but would prefer to see us trade down to the mid/late teens to get an additional day 2 pick before taking Wright.
cblaz11
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Ojulari is 6-2, 250….there are plenty of 4-3 DEs that match that size. Also, a lot of his tape comes with his hand in the dirt. If you want to watch txh a DE with some real good twitch, watch his tape. IMO, he’s one of the best pass rushers in this draft.

It should also be pointed out that he was named captain last year as well as given the number 18 which speaks to his character at LSU.
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Rusty Trombagent
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this is a funny thread
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