Interesting take from Alex Smith

[dplank]

https://apple.news/Abjg45AK1S9u_Ln2uSxH2TQ

I guess I’ll brace for a bunch of hate, is it ok to even share this?

Florio’s comment rings true IMO

[Atkins&Rebel]

Sends me to the Apple News app.
Care to paraphrase?

[Rusty Trombagent]

It's a weird argument to make from either direction. It's a fair point to an extent, Alex's first couple of seasons with the Niners were kind of hell with Mike Nolan (who i dont hold in very high regard) and then Mike fucking Singletary and a rotating cast of Offensive Coordinators. Definitely worst case scenario for a QB with some physical limitations who needed an excellent coach like Andy Reid to finally unlock and unleash what Alex does well. But also I'd argue that Andy Reid is one of the best to ever do it, and I could maybe excel playing QB for him.

But I also agree with his point about the Jets, they certainly didnt do Zach Wilson any favors. And lord knows the NFL is littered with Defensive Coordinator head coaches who think they just want a game manager and a ground game to bore their opponents to death.

/shrugs
I dunno, at this point in time it feels weird to worry about our offense being so great that Getsy gets poached. It's like worrying that Fields will be so great that we are saddled with a massive second contract. Cart before the horse and all.

[dplank]

Yea I don’t sweat it either, just came across my news wire and thought I’d share since it’s been a topic. One of those “good problems to have” I suppose.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I put little if any stock in this.

I mean when an article states "As much as Matt Nagy is not head coach material, he at least came from an offensive background when the Chicago Bears drafted Justin Fields in 2021" it isn't exactly an endorsement of why you should opt for a coach from that side of the ball. He failed miserably to develop Trubisky and then followed that up by completely mismanaging Fields' rookie season.

The fact is top quality head coaches can come from any background. Belichick, Cowher, Dungy, Tomlin, Carroll, John Harbaugh, all won Super Bowls despite not having a background in offense. Young QBs can also be successful playing for defensive coaches.

• Belichick was HC when Brady was drafted. He made the first of his 15 Pro Bowl appearances when he took over as the starter in his second year and won the Super Bowl before going on to become the GOAT.

• Cower was HC when Roethlisberger was drafted. He was the Offensive Rookie of the Year before going on to win two championships and is heading for the HoF.

• Dungy wasn't around when Manning was drafted, but the HC of the Colts at that time was Jim Mora, a defensive coach. He was 2nd in Offensive Rookie of the Year voting and then made the first of his 13 Pro Bowls in his second season before winning a pair championships and is a guaranteed first ballot HoF as one of the greatest QBs of all time.

• Carroll was the HC when Wilson was drafted in the 3rd round. He finished 3rd in Offensive Rookie of the Year voting and made the Pro Bowl in each of his first 4 seasons, which also included two top 4 finishes in Offensive Player of the Year voting, 2 Super Bowl appearances and a championship win.

• Harbaugh was the HC when Flacco was drafted. He was never a great QB but has been in the league for 15 years, started 180 games and won a Super Bowl. Harbaugh was also the HC when Jackson was drafted. He took over as the full-time starter in Year 2 and won the league MVP.

[dplank]

Those are old examples. Most recently though, the trend is different. Most teams winning, and in the hunt, for super bowls have been offensive led. KC, Cincy, Tampa, Rams, Eagles, 49ers - only Buffalo has a defensive HC and those are the best teams over the last 5+ years. It’s where the league is IMO.

[The Marshall Plan]

The league has structurally changed from one that celebrated big hits and defense to protecting the QB at all costs and offense.

Therefore the most important relationship on a team now is between the QB and whoever runs the offense. Of course it's more stable to have an HC that knows the offense, maybe even calls the plays, but can at least plug and play various OCs as they get poached.

It's one of the things that made me question the Flus hire. What does that guy bring to the table for JF1?

[dplank]

The league has structurally changed from one that celebrated big hits and defense to protecting the QB at all costs and offense.

Therefore the most important relationship on a team now is between the QB and whoever runs the offense. Of course it's more stable to have an HC that knows the offense, maybe even calls the plays, but can at least plug and play various OCs as they get poached.

It's one of the things that made me question the Flus hire. What does that guy bring to the table for JF1?

Yep exactly. It’s why I wanted Daboll.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

I put little if any stock in this.

I mean when an article states "As much as Matt Nagy is not head coach material, he at least came from an offensive background when the Chicago Bears drafted Justin Fields in 2021" it isn't exactly an endorsement of why you should opt for a coach from that side of the ball. He failed miserably to develop Trubisky and then followed that up by completely mismanaging Fields' rookie season.

The fact is top quality head coaches can come from any background. Belichick, Cowher, Dungy, Tomlin, Carroll, John Harbaugh, all won Super Bowls despite not having a background in offense. Young QBs can also be successful playing for defensive coaches.

• Belichick was HC when Brady was drafted. He made the first of his 15 Pro Bowl appearances when he took over as the starter in his second year and won the Super Bowl before going on to become the GOAT.

• Cower was HC when Roethlisberger was drafted. He was the Offensive Rookie of the Year before going on to win two championships and is heading for the HoF.

• Dungy wasn't around when Manning was drafted, but the HC of the Colts at that time was Jim Mora, a defensive coach. He was 2nd in Offensive Rookie of the Year voting and then made the first of his 13 Pro Bowls in his second season before winning a pair championships and is a guaranteed first ballot HoF as one of the greatest QBs of all time.

• Carroll was the HC when Wilson was drafted in the 3rd round. He finished 3rd in Offensive Rookie of the Year voting and made the Pro Bowl in each of his first 4 seasons, which also included two top 4 finishes in Offensive Player of the Year voting, 2 Super Bowl appearances and a championship win.

• Harbaugh was the HC when Flacco was drafted. He was never a great QB but has been in the league for 15 years, started 180 games and won a Super Bowl. Harbaugh was also the HC when Jackson was drafted. He took over as the full-time starter in Year 2 and won the league MVP.

Good post HRS. I see this as evidence to the contrary of Smith's argument. I think it's a bit of sour grapes on Smith's part as well because he ended up with a shit coaching rotation for his career in SF, and never was able to play up to his draft status. If you have continuity at the GM, HC and QB positions, the rest can be swapped in and out.

[malk]

Anecdata init.

[Rusty Trombagent]

Anecdata init.

Yeah. I dont think there's offensive coaches and defensive coaches. I think there's good coaches and bad coaches. Recency bias is a hell of a drug, though.

Upon reflection, this is kind of a funny thread @dplank , because i think what drives you crazy about Flus (that he's a glorified cheerleader) is him wanting to be the coach of the team, and not your run of the mill Defensive Coordinator who is clueless to what's going on on the other side of the ball. His fingers are in everything, including Fields' development, and whether that will work or not remains to be seen, it's more than you've been making it out to be. I think, anyway.

[dave99]

It's good to have a head coach with an offensive background, but I think it is more important that the GM, HC, and QB be on the same page.

It has been pointed out in past articles and discussions that this has rarely (if ever) been the case with the Bears. This sad fact undoubtedly accounts for much of our historical QB misery.
While it is true that Pace and Eberflus did not draft Fields, they did have a full year to evaluate him and the number one pick to replace him. The fact that they did not can be viewed as the same kind of endorsement.

Pace is methodically building a team around Fields that will (hopefully) accentuate and build on his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Eberflus appears to be fully on board. If and when Getsy leaves, he can be replaced with another OC that fits the culture and scheme as opposed to having the team and Fields having to restructure around the OC.

Continuity is the key here and there is more than one way to make that happen.

[southdakbearfan]

Whether a coordinator will make a good head coach has little to do with them being either an offensive or defensive coordinator. It’s all about team management and their ability to build relationship’s with staff and players. Teams seems to get hung up on the next great coordinator be it offensive or defensive. Just like in the business world, the greatest CFO, Sales Manager, Regional manager, etc may make a great or terrible CEO. It has little to do with their background and everything to do with who they are. IMO.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

It's good to have a head coach with an offensive background, but I think it is more important that the GM, HC, and QB be on the same page.

It has been pointed out in past articles and discussions that this has rarely (if ever) been the case with the Bears. This sad fact undoubtedly accounts for much of our historical QB misery.
While it is true that Pace and Eberflus did not draft Fields, they did have a full year to evaluate him and the number one pick to replace him. The fact that they did not can be viewed as the same kind of endorsement.

Pace is methodically building a team around Fields that will (hopefully) accentuate and build on his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Eberflus appears to be fully on board. If and when Getsy leaves, he can be replaced with another OC that fits the culture and scheme as opposed to having the team and Fields having to restructure around the OC.

Continuity is the key here and there is more than one way to make that happen.

Yes. I have beat that drum repeatedly on this forum. If you have continuity at the GM, HC, and QB position, you can develop a successful franchise for the long term. The OC's and DC's can be rotated in and out. Although it causes disruption, the HC sets the strategy for both sides of the ball. The OC can bring their own flavor of offense/play-calling, but it's the HC that sets the tone for how the QB will be developed.

Just because Flus is a former DC, doesn't mean he doesn't understand offense, or what good QB play looks like. In fact, precisely because he had to scheme defenses to stop outstanding QB play on their schedules, he probably understands it as well as anyone in that building.

[dplank]

I don't believe that you can develop a QB with "tone" lol.

I just have a preference is all - I want a guy in the mold of McVay, Shanahan, Reid, Sirianni, Arians. They provide the most stability for a QB to flourish because even if you swap out a coordinator it has very little impact on the QB or the offense as a whole. I believe the NFL has moved to an offensive identity and so continuity on that side of the ball is what I value most. Maybe it swings back to a defensive league and this is recency bias as someone said, but I dont' think so. I think this is the modern game and it's going to be this way for a while.

[Shadow]

Anecdata init.

not your run of the mill Defensive Coordinator who is clueless to what's going on on the other side of the ball.

It's okay, you can say Lovie, no one will get mad!

[Rusty Trombagent]

not your run of the mill Defensive Coordinator who is clueless to what's going on on the other side of the ball.

It's okay, you can say Lovie, no one will get mad!

[Grizzled]

While I wanted Daboll (or even a good look at Greg Roman), the Bears picked Flus. His background is in defense but he has to understand offenses enough to have been effective at this job. Better yet, he recognizes that he's not the one to direct the development of Fields and found an OC who he believes is. Flus and Poles also recognized how little support they provided for Fields to be successful in '22 and took measures (Moore, Wright, Scott, Tonyan, Roshon, Davis) to address this. Any defensive minded HC who wants to succeed will realize that he needs the right OC and the right system for his QB to succeed. Here's the Smith comments:

https://commanderswire.usatoday.com/202 ... s-in-2023/

[The Marshall Plan]

It's OK Lovie. You can coach my team any day.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I just have a preference is all - I want a guy in the mold of McVay, Shanahan, Reid, Sirianni, Arians. They provide the most stability for a QB to flourish because even if you swap out a coordinator it has very little impact on the QB or the offense as a whole.

Remind me, which young QB has Arians developed during his stints as Head Coach in Arizona and now Tampa? As I recall he had Carson Palmer and then Tom Brady and never even had the opportunity to work with a QB drafted high during his tenures. I guess we'll see what he makes of Kyle Trask this year.

McVay had Goff and got a couple of good years out him, but then he tailed off and McVay dumped him for a 33-year old Matt Stafford in order to win a championship.

In terms of stability, it really depends on whether the system changes when a co-ordinator departs. If you promote from within or bring in another co-ordinator with a similar coaching background and philosophy then that continuity will remain. That's really the key here.

[dplank]

I just have a preference is all - I want a guy in the mold of McVay, Shanahan, Reid, Sirianni, Arians. They provide the most stability for a QB to flourish because even if you swap out a coordinator it has very little impact on the QB or the offense as a whole.

Remind me, which young QB has Arians developed during his stints as Head Coach in Arizona and now Tampa? As I recall he had Carson Palmer and then Tom Brady and never even had the opportunity to work with a QB drafted high during his tenures. I guess we'll see what he makes of Kyle Trask this year.

McVay had Goff and got a couple of good years out him, but then he tailed off and McVay dumped him for a 33-year old Matt Stafford in order to win a championship.

In terms of stability, it really depends on whether the system changes when a co-ordinator departs. If you promote from within or bring in another co-ordinator with a similar coaching background and philosophy then that continuity will remain. That's really the key here.

The flaw in your logic, IMO, is that you assume these guys grow on trees. They don’t. I’ll just point to the clown car parade of OCs under Lovie as exhibit A. It’s obviously not as easy as you want to make it sound.

Poor form on Arians, do your homework bud. He made Kordel Stewart of all people an All Pro. He’s had successful offenses everywhere he’s been. We should have hired him when he went to AZ, but Bears.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Remind me, which young QB has Arians developed during his stints as Head Coach in Arizona and now Tampa? As I recall he had Carson Palmer and then Tom Brady and never even had the opportunity to work with a QB drafted high during his tenures. I guess we'll see what he makes of Kyle Trask this year.

McVay had Goff and got a couple of good years out him, but then he tailed off and McVay dumped him for a 33-year old Matt Stafford in order to win a championship.

In terms of stability, it really depends on whether the system changes when a co-ordinator departs. If you promote from within or bring in another co-ordinator with a similar coaching background and philosophy then that continuity will remain. That's really the key here.

The flaw in your logic, IMO, is that you assume these guys grow on trees. They don’t. I’ll just point to the clown car parade of OCs under Lovie as exhibit A. It’s obviously not as easy as you want to make it sound.

Poor form on Arians, do your homework bud. He made Kordel Stewart of all people an All Pro. He’s had successful offenses everywhere he’s been. We should have hired him when he went to AZ, but Bears.

The flaw in your logic, IMO, is that you argue the Bears should employ one of these guys that you also argue don't grow on trees to be their head coach. That being the case it's obviously not as easy as you want to make it sound. I'll just point to the clown that was Matt Nagy as exhibit A.

The problem under Lovie is there was no continuity in offensive philosophy. Shea to Turner to Martz to Tice was a recipe for disaster. Of course just because a head coach hires a new OC with the same background and philosophy doesn't guarantee success, but it gives a young QB more chance than the alternative.

As for Arians, he wasn't the Head Coach in Pittsburgh so I don't see what relevance that has to the current discussion which is about whether it is necessary for the Head Coach to be from the offensive side of the ball in order to develop a young QB. We can all agree though that the Bears should have hired him instead of Trestman.

[thunderspirit]

Yeah, I'm not going to engage in any Arians slander — his rep speaks for itself — but I will point out, @dplank, that in one paragraph you call Belichick, Carroll, Cowher, Dungy, and Harbaugh "old examples" and in another you cite Arians' success with checks notes Kordell Stewart, which was 20 years ago.

How is that not an old example?

[Arkansasbear]

It's as simple as finding the right guy. You have guys with both background that have been successful and likely a larger group that have been failures. As plank points out, great HCs don't grow on trees. Guys can look like they will be the next big deal and when they are put in charge, they can't rise to the challenge - see Nagy, Matt as a prime example.

[wab]

It's as simple as finding the right guy. You have guys with both background that have been successful and likely a larger group that have been failures. As plank points out, great HCs don't grow on trees. Guys can look like they will be the next big deal and when they are put in charge, they can't rise to the challenge - see Nagy, Matt as a prime example.

I'd go so far as to say it doesn't matter what side of the ball the coach comes from if you get the QB right. If people are worried that Fields is going to tank if Getsy gets hired away, then that's more of a reflection on Fields than any coach.

[Grizzled]

Remind me, which young QB has Arians developed during his stints as Head Coach in Arizona and now Tampa? As I recall he had Carson Palmer and then Tom Brady and never even had the opportunity to work with a QB drafted high during his tenures. I guess we'll see what he makes of Kyle Trask this year.

McVay had Goff and got a couple of good years out him, but then he tailed off and McVay dumped him for a 33-year old Matt Stafford in order to win a championship.

In terms of stability, it really depends on whether the system changes when a co-ordinator departs. If you promote from within or bring in another co-ordinator with a similar coaching background and philosophy then that continuity will remain. That's really the key here.

The flaw in your logic, IMO, is that you assume these guys grow on trees. They don’t. I’ll just point to the clown car parade of OCs under Lovie as exhibit A. It’s obviously not as easy as you want to make it sound.

Poor form on Arians, do your homework bud. He made Kordel Stewart of all people an All Pro. He’s had successful offenses everywhere he’s been. We should have hired him when he went to AZ, but Bears.

Gotta agree with DP here. Cutler was his type of QB (big arm) and it would have been great to see the pairing.

[artbest01]

Vacuous digression - IMO, Arians likely doesn't revert back to Cutler in 2013 after McCown goes off against the Cowboys, part of a string of performances that were the best by a Bears QB since Erik Kramer in 1995.

There IS something to be said about having a top offensive minded head coach take a young signal caller under his wing. The challenge is finding the right guy. Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan and, to (arguably) a lesser extent Doug Pederson aren't THAT easy to identify. For different reasons, Matt Nagy and Frank Reich crashed and burned. Anthony Lynn was given one season with Justin Herbert, was dumped and replaced by a defensive minded HC. Matt Lafleur will finally show what he's truly made of this season. Jared Goff is arguably better in Detroit than he was with McVay in Los Angeles.

I really like Brian Daboll, but he was never coming to Chicago. He was always headed to the Giants. Love his play calling - love his flexibility. That said, it DOES make sense to point out that he was working for a defensive minded head coach when he helped develop Josh Allen. John Harbaugh's work with Lamar Jackson is very recent. Cam Newton reached his peak under defensive coach Ron Rivera. Peyton Manning & Tom Brady thrived under defensive oriented head coaches. Geno Smith rose from the ashes under Pete Carroll.

The right head coach who can identify the right people - coaches and players - to put around a QB is essential. A GM who can identify QB's worth drafted or trading for is essential. Lovie Smith was "done in" by his inexperience coming in, mediocre at best QB play and, for the most part, limited pass catchers.

[The Marshall Plan]

The flaw in your logic, IMO, is that you assume these guys grow on trees. They don’t. I’ll just point to the clown car parade of OCs under Lovie as exhibit A. It’s obviously not as easy as you want to make it sound.

Poor form on Arians, do your homework bud. He made Kordel Stewart of all people an All Pro. He’s had successful offenses everywhere he’s been. We should have hired him when he went to AZ, but Bears.

Gotta agree with DP here. Cutler was his type of QB (big arm) and it would have been great to see the pairing.

Dammit why couldn’t we have won one with Cutler?

He was perfect. The personality, demeanor, the internet sensation with Smokin’ Jay and the golden arm.

The picture of him holding the Lombardi Trophy with a cigarette Photoshopped in his mouth would’ve been the greatest thing ever.

[Arkansasbear]

It's as simple as finding the right guy. You have guys with both background that have been successful and likely a larger group that have been failures. As plank points out, great HCs don't grow on trees. Guys can look like they will be the next big deal and when they are put in charge, they can't rise to the challenge - see Nagy, Matt as a prime example.

I'd go so far as to say it doesn't matter what side of the ball the coach comes from if you get the QB right. If people are worried that Fields is going to tank if Getsy gets hired away, then that's more of a reflection on Fields than any coach.

I'd agree with that. Building an NFL team is heard. You have to get lots of things right. You need a GM who can identify the right guy to be the head coach. Then you need a good front office/scouting department that can identify talent and draft the right guys and sign the right FAs. The the coach and staff have to have the ability to bring it all together so it succeeds.

[dplank]

Yeah, I'm not going to engage in any Arians slander — his rep speaks for itself — but I will point out, @dplank, that in one paragraph you call Belichick, Carroll, Cowher, Dungy, and Harbaugh "old examples" and in another you cite Arians' success with checks notes Kordell Stewart, which was 20 years ago.

How is that not an old example?

It is but my main point on Arians was the Super Bowl he recently won. The Kordel Stewart comment was added for dramatic effect and answering the specific assertion that he never developed a young QB.