Just realized something about Claypool

[The Grizzly One]

4000 isnt actually all that much in today's game

Especially since its a 17 Game Season not 16.

Heck - I think the Jay Cutler/Jimmy Clausen combo did it in 2014. With 1 fewer game and Aaron Cromer involved

Its odd that we have a whole thread to "Delirious Excitement" but the whole actually "Having Expectations" part of QB play is not there yet.

15/32 teams had 4000 passing yards last year. So it's not a ton.



OTOH, the Bears were a distant, distant, dead last at 2598. So that would represent an incredible turnaround.

I'll refer you to my Bachman Turner Overdrive video in this post.

LINK: viewtopic.php?t=17336

[dplank]

4000 isnt actually all that much in today's game

Especially since its a 17 Game Season not 16.

Heck - I think the Jay Cutler/Jimmy Clausen combo did it in 2014. With 1 fewer game and Aaron Cromer involved

Its odd that we have a whole thread to "Delirious Excitement" but the whole actually "Having Expectations" part of QB play is not there yet.

15/32 teams had 4000 passing yards last year. So it's not a ton.



OTOH, the Bears were a distant, distant, dead last at 2598. So that would represent an incredible turnaround.

That’s teams, not players. Only 9 players did 4K yards and none of them play on run heavy teams. So yea, it’s a ton when viewed with proper context. We aren’t going to suddenly start throwing the ball like Miami and abandon the run, nor should we. This is why stats are often just a stupid way to look at things.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

And after the ankle injury?

When was the last time Mooney beat his defender by five yards? Took a WR screen for 20 yards? Took a slant for 60 yards to the house? This video shows Scott doing all of that.

Mooney is a known quantity.

In three years, do you know how many 100 yard games Mooney has had? 4.

I'm not worried about Mooney playing somewhere else or sitting on the bench.

Bear fans are so incredibly loyal to mediocrity, aren't we?

Scott ran a 4.32 at his pro day and has also been unofficially timed sub 4.3. Who knows why he ran so slowly (for him) at the combine. Some of the fasted guys in football have/find some extra burst to separate themselves and you can just plain see it on film. Caution is, Scott is separating from college players...so who it is matters. Having that last second gear is important. JF1 was quoted last week saying he's already seen that in DJ Moore. JF1 himself has it - afterburners. You know who else does? Velus. Watch the JF1 explosive plays compilation and on #8 against the Bills with the long pass to Velus he accelerates at the last second to get to the ball and make the catch. He and the 2 DBs were already looking like they were running full speed... then all of the sudden Velus surges to get in front of one of the DBs. Mooney has made some acrobatic catches - but I don't recall him using his alledged speed. Along with Scott's potential, I still think Velus could be one of the reasons Mooney is wearing another jersey color in '24.

To me. The 40-yard dash is a gauge. It tells you what their speed could be. Once the pads come out, every player handles them differently. For some players the pads are a burden, and they can't be explosive, and/or lose a step. For others, it's irrelevant. They feel nothing. They can perform the same with pads as without. Scott plays faster than his 4.50 at the combine, but probably doesn't play at a 4.32 level. But for sure he plays like he's sub 4.4. To me, I see the same thing with Roschon Johnson. He ran a 4.58 at the Combine. But you watch his tape, and he's running away from, most likely, sub 4.55 CB's in the Big 12.

[malk]

I think Pool will have a good or very good year and will be offered contracts in the $12 to $15M, 3 year, range with a decent guaranteed money. I don't think anyone will go crazy and offer him #1 money but teams get desperate during the initial wave of free agency and it just takes one.

What do you consider "good" or "very good" year Grizzled?

I think you may be underestimating the market.

Jakobi Meyers
Y1: 26 catches, 359 yards (13.8 ypc), 0 TD, (Yards per Game: 23.9)
Y2: 59 catches, 729 yards (12. 4 ypc), 0 TD, (Yards per Game: 52.1)
Y3: 83 catches, 866 yards (10.4 ypc), 2 TD, (Yards per Game: 50.9)
Y4: 67 catches, 804 yards (12.0 ypc), 6 TD, (Yards per Game: 57.4)
Signed 2023 after 4 seasons: 3 years $33m, $21m in guarantees
$11m APY

Tim Patrick
Y1: 23 catches, 315 yards (13.7 ypc), 1 TD, (Yards per Game: 19.7)
Y2: 16 catches, 218 yards (13.6 ypc), 0 TD, (Yards per Game: 27.3)
Y3: 51 catches, 742 yards (14.5 ypc), 6 TD, (Yards per Game: 49.5)
Y4: 53 catches, 734 yards (13.8 ypc), 5 TD, (Yards per Game: 45.9)
Signed 2021 after 4 seasons: 3 years $34m, $18.5m in guarantees
$11.333m APY

Curtis Samuel
Y1: 15 catches, 115 yards (7.7 ypc), 0 TD, (Yards per Game: 12.8)
Y2: 39 catches, 494 yards (12.7 ypc), 5 TD, (Yards per Game: 38.0)
Y3: 54 catches, 627 yards (11.6 ypc), 6 TD, (Yards per Game: 39.2)
Y4: 77 catches, 851 yards (11. ypc), 3 TD, (Yards per Game: 56.7)
Signed 2021 after 4 seasons: 3 years $34.5m, $23m in guarantees
$11.5m APY

Corey Davis
Y1: 34 catches, 375 yards (11.0 ypc), 0 TD, (Yards per Game: 34.1)
Y2: 65 catches, 891 yards (13.7 ypc), 4 TD, (Yards per Game: 55.7)
Y3: 43 catches, 601 yards (14.0 ypc), 2 TD, (Yards per Game: 40.1)
Y4: 65 catches, 984 yards (15.1 ypc), 5 TD, (Yards per Game: 70.3)
Signed 2021 after 4 seasons: 3 years $37.5m, $27m in guarantees
$12.5m APY

Courtland Sutton
Y1: 42 catches, 704 yards (16.8 ypc), 4 TD, (Yards per Game: 44.0)
Y2: 72 catches, 1112 yards (15.4 ypc), 6 TD, (Yards per Game: 69.5)
Y3: 3 catches, 66 yards (22.0 ypc), 0 TD, (Yards per Game: 66.0)
Y4: 58 catches, 776 yards (13.4 ypc), 2 TD, (Yards per Game: 45.6)
Signed 2021 after 3 seasons:4 years $60.8m, $34.9m in guarantees
$15.2m APY

Hunter Renfrow
Y1: 49 catches, 605 yards (12.3 ypc), 4 TD, (Yards per Game: 46.5)
Y2: 56 catches, 656 yards (11.7 ypc), 2 TD, (Yards per Game: 41.0)
Y3: 103 catches, 1038 yards (10.1 ypc), 9 TD, (Yards per Game: 61.1)
Y4: 36 catches, 330 yards (9.2 ypc), 2 TD, (Yards per Game: 33.0)
Signed 2022 after 3 seasons: 2 years $32.329m, $21m in guarantees
$16.1645m APY

Christian Kirk
Y1: 43 catches, 590 yards (13.7 ypc), 3 TD, (Yards per Game: 49.2)
Y2: 68 catches, 709 yards (10.4 ypc), 3 TD, (Yards per Game: 54.5)
Y3: 48 catches, 621 yards (12.9 ypc), 6 TD, (Yards per Game: 44.4)
Y4: 77 catches, 982 yards (12.8 ypc), 5 TD, (Yards per Game: 57.8)
Signed 2022 after 4 seasons): 4 years $72m, $37m in guarantees
$18m APY

Diontae Johnson
Y1: 59 catches, 680 yards (11.5 ypc), 5 TD, (Yards per Game: 42.5)
Y2: 88 catches, 923 yards (10.5 ypc), 7 TD, (Yards per Game: 61.5)
Y3: 107 catches, 1161 yards (10.9 ypc), 8 TD, (Yards per Game: 72.6)
Y4: 86 catches, 882 yards (10.3 ypc), 0 TD, (Yards per Game: 51.9)
Signed 2022 after 3 seasons: 2 years $36.71m , $27m in guarantees
$18.335m APY

Chase Claypool
Y1: 62 catches, 873 yards (14.1 ypc), 9 TD, (Yards per Game: 54.6)
Y2: 59 catches, 860 yards (14.6 ypc), 2 TD, (Yards per Game: 57.3)
Y3: 46 catches, 451 yards (9.8 ypc), 1 TD, (Yards per Game: 30.1)
Y4: ?

Meyers is very much the outlier in this group based on his level of production. If Claypool gets close to or breaks 1,000 yards at around 60+ yards a game then he'll fit firmly in that $15m to £20m APY range (allowing for a little cap inflation).

Whether Poles will be willing to pay that is another matter and will depend on a variety of factors including which other receivers hit the market and how other receivers on the Bears roster perform. Darnell Mooney's numbers to date put him in amongst those listed above and we'll have to see what, if anything, Jones and Scott bring to the table.

I'd be interested to see what they average after the big contracts... That list shows a decent amount of players on their rookie deals who are able to get 600-1000 yard seasons. Looking at last year there were 21 WRs who got over 1000 yards and 31 who got between 600-999.

Looking again at last season alone, the Jags were 10th in passing yards at a little under 4000. They got that mainly with Kirk 1108, Jones 823 and Engram (TE) 766. Mavin Jones kicked in 529 and you had dribs and drabs from the rest. Other similar teams were:

Raiders. 1516 from Adams then the next was Hollins with 690 and a platoon of people 400 ish.
Seahawks had Metcalf and Lockett chipping in 1048 and 1033 then everyone else under 500.
Eagles had AJ Brown with 1496, DeVonta Smith with 1196, Dallas Goedert with 702 and change from the rest.

Our passing was insanely bad last year, 2219 yards put us not just in 32nd but adrift of 31st who had 2699. Losing 379 yards to sacks didn't help! Obviously the positive way of looking at it is we have three receivers on the roster who have previous pedigree. 3 1100+ yard seasons from Moore, a 1000+ season from Mooney and a couple of 800+ from Claypool. Also Kmet is a pretty reliable 600 yards, hopefully more. One of the reasons I'm really excited for this coming season. After that though, it will be interesting to see where Poles things the cap is best spent. Having a couple of guys who can regularly get over 1000 yards would be great and worth paying for. But having one guy who can do that and paying $15m per for complimentary players who can only get around 800, that doesn't fill me with joy.

Give me 2000 yards from Moore and Kmet, 1000 from the running backs and WRs 4, 5, 6 then we need 500 each from WRs 2 and 3 to get us to a top 10 passing offence. Do I want lots of cap tied up to get us beyond that to a top 5 passing offence at the expense of other positions?

You know what, fuck it, I probably do! Chase, Darnell, do your thing!

[RichH55]

15/32 teams had 4000 passing yards last year. So it's not a ton.



OTOH, the Bears were a distant, distant, dead last at 2598. So that would represent an incredible turnaround.

That’s teams, not players. Only 9 players did 4K yards and none of them play on run heavy teams. So yea, it’s a ton when viewed with proper context. We aren’t going to suddenly start throwing the ball like Miami and abandon the run, nor should we. This is why stats are often just a stupid way to look at things.

Not sure why team doesn't matter here. Besides that it gets to move the goalposts - Proper context being apologism in advance

If Fields misses 2 games but was on pace for 4000 Yards.....Every single post will say "He was on pace for 4000 Yards" (and with cause IMHO)

But when nearly Half the league is putting 4000+ up Passing - it's not like this is Kennedy setting the goal of the Moon, you know?

That said - Fields will be judged more so on Scoring Offense - People are correct to note that his legs are an absolute weapon and that HAS to be taken into account

The notion that 4000 is a crazy goal or akin to that though? Thats off the mark

Watson once put up a big Yard year (took a ton of sacks though) - and they just didn't score many points that year (especially in the 1st half) - and that was a real issue unless once was a Watson apologist

[The Grizzly One]

But when nearly Half the league is putting 4000+ up Passing - it's not like this is Kennedy setting the goal of the Moon, you know?

Now that was a good one.

[G08]

Hooooo boy. No bueno.

[IE]

Hooooo boy. No bueno.

That is certainly possible. And a major bummer if it does turn out that way.

I see this as offseason desperation for something to say - picking something they feel might be a question and then doing a combination of speculation and appearing to have a scoop.

JF1 himself said he's been impressed with Pool and the work he's put in this offseason, and they did work out together is my understanding. So I don't know re: this "scoop".

I kind of hate the pass-dropping clips while they share this. It's punky and not fair at all. Lost some respect for them for doing that.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

This concerned me the most about offseason practices …

Wide receiver Chase Claypool missing practices. Coach Matt Eberflus described it as “dealing with a few things” but not a big deal, however he noted that the lost time working with Fields is costly. Claypool is one of the Bears’ biggest wildcards, and they gave up a lot to get him when Poles sent the No. 32 overall pick to the Steelers. He traded for Claypool hoping he’d be a star, and as badly as the Bears want that to happen, there simply hasn’t been evidence that he’s headed that way.

- Jason Lieser
https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2023 ... ining-camp


Chase Claypool did not participate in the final three weeks of the offseason program with a soft-tissue injury.

- Mark Potash
https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2023 ... -next-step

[Grizzled]

All along I've been thinking Scott is going to bump Mooney from the team. But Mooney works and works to get better. I'm wondering, if Claypool just doesn't cut it by mid-season, if Scott is bumped to the outside, where he predominately played in college and the Bears look at re-signing Mooney. Early to speculate but, hey, got to do something in the offseason.

[The Marshall Plan]

This is a situation where JF1 really needs to channel his inner Michael Jordan and tell Claypool to cut the shit out and fucking show up to play.

Claypool has the ability to be a successful WR, but it sounds like he's got mashed potatoes for mental fortitude. This is where a leader steps up and gets the beta wolves in line.

[dplank]

Scott hasn’t proven he can bump Pettis off the roster let alone Mooney. Time will tell on all these guys. The only thing I noticed from both the Flus and Fields recent pressers was how frequently Mooney was mentioned. He feels like a core team member to me and I think he is going to be extended if he comes back fully healthy and performs like we are accustomed to seeing. Claypool seems less so and might need to really outperform him to slot ahead of him.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

This is how I see it and I’m perfectly fine with it.

DJ Moore is WR1 and all the other spots are up for grabs.
Mooney, Claypool if you want to get paid then earn it.

Velus, Scott - this is your chance.

[southdakbearfan]

This is how I see it and I’m perfectly fine with it.

DJ Moore is WR1 and all the other spots are up for grabs.
Mooney, Claypool if you want to get paid then earn it.

Velus, Scott - this is your chance.

Exactly

[HisRoyalSweetness]

[BreadNCircuses]

FWIW

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2023/ ... rade-draft
Is there any truth to the Chase Claypool narrative?
Is the Bears’ organization down on Chase Claypool? Greg Gabriel has a different take on the situation.

[Middleguard]

This is a situation where JF1 really needs to channel his inner Michael Jordan and tell Claypool to cut the shit out and fucking show up to play.

Claypool has the ability to be a successful WR, but it sounds like he's got mashed potatoes for mental fortitude. This is where a leader steps up and gets the beta wolves in line.

Well, Fields has said, ""I'm going to get the receivers, tight ends, running backs down to Florida, throw with them for a few days just right before we come back." We'll see who shows up.

[Grizzled]

FWIW

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2023/ ... rade-draft
Is there any truth to the Chase Claypool narrative?
Is the Bears’ organization down on Chase Claypool? Greg Gabriel has a different take on the situation.

This from the link:

.... the Rams and Bears' offensive schemes are very similar regarding terminology and concepts. This friend of mine told me, "Don't expect much out of Claypool this year. The offense is a bitch to learn, especially for receivers. He'll show what he can do next year." Mid-season, learning the playbook, learning the game plan each week, fighting injuries, small wonder he failed.

We don't know the severity of the injuries that kept Claypool from participating in OTAs. We're hearing from 3rd parties but not from the principals. So the ball's in Claypool's corner. If he wants a big contract, he needs to apply himself 150% and prove himself that guy. He shouldn't get #1 money but big #2 bucks, $15M +.

[southdakbearfan]

At least there are options if Claypool doesn’t pan out.

[dplank]

I don't buy the narrative on Claypool at all and I've been heavily critical of the trade. Why wouldn't the guy be absolutely motivated during the biggest contract year of his lifetime? This is his first, and maybe only, chance to land a huge life changing deal - and he's not motivated to go and earn it? Seems highly unlikely to me. Off season chatter is such bullshit. Greg Gabriel wrote a long article about this - and harkened back to all that Jenkins bullshit from last year -and called all of it out as utter nonsense.

[Moriarty]

I don't buy the narrative on Claypool at all and I've been heavily critical of the trade. Why wouldn't the guy be absolutely motivated during the biggest contract year of his lifetime? This is his first, and maybe only, chance to land a huge life changing deal - and he's not motivated to go and earn it? Seems highly unlikely to me. Off season chatter is such bullshit. Greg Gabriel wrote a long article about this - and harkened back to all that Jenkins bullshit from last year -and called all of it out as utter nonsense.

Gabriel's article was nonsense.

He used a ton of words to say "The narrative about the staff having something against Jenkins, his work ethic, and/or maturity was false. How do I know? Because the narrative has quieted down (some, but hasn't really gone away, either) and because I say so. Never mind that Jenkins' college coaches had initial problems with his work ethic and maturity."

[Shadow]

I am still not going to pigeon hole Claypool as anything other than a guy trying to make a team.
What Silvy heard means squat. He may be quoting the cleaning and grounds crew and not really anyone in the know. If it is actually Coaches or FO people saying these things, the Bears have a bigger problem and Poles needs to weed his garden. It is the off season of lies, click-bait and speculation.
We will all see soon enough if the kid has made the strides some have stated (Teammates and Coaches)
I truly hope this is all off season smoke and misdirection.

[Yogi da Bear]

I don't buy the narrative on Claypool at all and I've been heavily critical of the trade. Why wouldn't the guy be absolutely motivated during the biggest contract year of his lifetime? This is his first, and maybe only, chance to land a huge life changing deal - and he's not motivated to go and earn it? Seems highly unlikely to me. Off season chatter is such bullshit. Greg Gabriel wrote a long article about this - and harkened back to all that Jenkins bullshit from last year -and called all of it out as utter nonsense.

I don't buy it either. And I agree with Gabriel on this. It's simply trying to get clicks. Not only that, but Chicago reporters have been notoriously negative, ever since Skip Bayless, and maybe even before. An example of this was from last week when Hoge posted that Justin had a horrible day, and then Joniak posted that Fields went 15-18 on the day. Hard to reconcile those two. Clearly, somebody has an agenda.

With Claypool, I can understand that if the soft tissue injury is a tweaked hamstring, he'd want to stay out of OTAs. I would much prefer him too as well. That's an injury if aggravated can easily go into months to heal from.

[Mikefive]

I don't buy the narrative on Claypool at all and I've been heavily critical of the trade. Why wouldn't the guy be absolutely motivated during the biggest contract year of his lifetime? This is his first, and maybe only, chance to land a huge life changing deal - and he's not motivated to go and earn it? Seems highly unlikely to me. Off season chatter is such bullshit. Greg Gabriel wrote a long article about this - and harkened back to all that Jenkins bullshit from last year -and called all of it out as utter nonsense.

I don't buy it either. And I agree with Gabriel on this. It's simply trying to get clicks. Not only that, but Chicago reporters have been notoriously negative, ever since Skip Bayless, and maybe even before. An example of this was from last week when Hoge posted that Justin had a horrible day, and then Joniak posted that Fields went 15-18 on the day. Hard to reconcile those two. Clearly, somebody has an agenda.

If you listened closely to those reports, they were corrected by some to be 15 of 18 IN THE 7 on 7's, not for the whole day. It's clearly possible that he did well in that one particular drill and then didn't do so well in others.

[IE]

I don't buy the narrative on Claypool at all and I've been heavily critical of the trade. Why wouldn't the guy be absolutely motivated during the biggest contract year of his lifetime? This is his first, and maybe only, chance to land a huge life changing deal - and he's not motivated to go and earn it? Seems highly unlikely to me. Off season chatter is such bullshit. Greg Gabriel wrote a long article about this - and harkened back to all that Jenkins bullshit from last year -and called all of it out as utter nonsense.

I don't buy it either. And I agree with Gabriel on this. It's simply trying to get clicks. Not only that, but Chicago reporters have been notoriously negative, ever since Skip Bayless, and maybe even before. An example of this was from last week when Hoge posted that Justin had a horrible day, and then Joniak posted that Fields went 15-18 on the day. Hard to reconcile those two. Clearly, somebody has an agenda.

With Claypool, I can understand that if the soft tissue injury is a tweaked hamstring, he'd want to stay out of OTAs. I would much prefer him too as well. That's an injury if aggravated can easily go into months to heal from.

Cosign every word.

[Yogi da Bear]

I don't buy it either. And I agree with Gabriel on this. It's simply trying to get clicks. Not only that, but Chicago reporters have been notoriously negative, ever since Skip Bayless, and maybe even before. An example of this was from last week when Hoge posted that Justin had a horrible day, and then Joniak posted that Fields went 15-18 on the day. Hard to reconcile those two. Clearly, somebody has an agenda.

If you listened closely to those reports, they were corrected by some to be 15 of 18 IN THE 7 on 7's, not for the whole day. It's clearly possible that he did well in that one particular drill and then didn't do so well in others.

Possible I guess. But there's a couple of problems with that stance. First, the Brisker pick in mentioned in both and was described as a miscommunication in one. Second, and more importantly, if you're going to be objective, why wouldn't you mention that 15-18 performance before you dogged on a guy for another drill?

Again, clearly, somebody has an agenda. And I think that's to get clicks, the old fashioned, negative, Chicago journalism way, ala Skip Ballless and Bernie Lickmyass.

[thunderspirit]

Some of Chicago's sports guys are negative, yeah. I don't find that to be the case with the folks who cover the team day-to-day, personally, but YMMV.

Every single person who puts pen to paper/fingers to keyboard has an agenda, though; and that agenda is usually to get someone else to read it.

[Moriarty]

Some of Chicago's sports guys are negative, yeah. I don't find that to be the case with the folks who cover the team day-to-day, personally, but YMMV.

The daily coverage, locker room guys actually need to be somewhat pro-team, in order to stay in good graces, get access, interviews, etc.

[Arkansasbear]

I don't buy it either. And I agree with Gabriel on this. It's simply trying to get clicks. Not only that, but Chicago reporters have been notoriously negative, ever since Skip Bayless, and maybe even before. An example of this was from last week when Hoge posted that Justin had a horrible day, and then Joniak posted that Fields went 15-18 on the day. Hard to reconcile those two. Clearly, somebody has an agenda.

With Claypool, I can understand that if the soft tissue injury is a tweaked hamstring, he'd want to stay out of OTAs. I would much prefer him too as well. That's an injury if aggravated can easily go into months to heal from.

Cosign every word.

I'm on board with it appears to be over hyped about Claypool and it not worth risking injury at this point.

[Kylo Bearen]

Cosign every word.

I'm on board with it appears to be over hyped about Claypool and it not worth risking injury at this point.

Absolutely, if his play slips because of a nagging injury it be pointless.