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artbest01 wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:43 pm IMO, Eberflus is trying to replicate what he had in Indy, which is not analogous to the 2001 Chicago Bears. It seems like he's hoping that Dexter and Pickens can be a new version of Buckner and Stewart. DT's with length and size but NOT 350+lbs of 2-gapping size. He also seems to like his DE's to be sturdier with their hands in the dirt than what we often see with 3/4 OLBs.

He uses a similar approach to what Lovie and his mentor Rod Marinelli used, but he also seems like his DT's to be more stout. Lovie's run defenses were, arguably, at their best when he paired a bona-fide 3T with Angelo acquisitions made during the Jauron era - Ian Scott and Alphonso Boone. Both were much better at stopping the run imo than, say, Dusty Dvoracek. It wasn't until Anthony Adams arrived (Matt Toeaina and Stephen Paea were strong in the weight room, not sure they were particularly stout at the LOS) that the Bear run defense was buttressed.

Eberflus seems to prefer dlinemen who can both get upfield and be stout at the point of attack
Holy crap Art - you just made me feel simultaneously old and stupid in a single post!

I can’t believe I both remember all of those names and yet have almost no recollection of what years they played for us!

I think I hate you now!
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Noots wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:06 pm
karhu wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 2:31 pm Weird how we chose a Cover 2 coach who prefers Dick Jauron's line. Robinson-Washington-Traylor-Daniels clicked like mad that one year when they were all healthy, but we also blitzed like crazy: our starting LBs had more sacks than our entire line and our safeties had just half a sack fewer than our entire LDE rotation. That's not going to happen this year.
Jauron ran more of a 2-gapping DL with big bodies all the way across, including Daniels at one DE and BRob at the other, with 700 lbs of ass in the middle. What was really unique and a key was that our SLB was R. Colvin, and he dropped in at DE in sub packages and racked up like 10 sacks a year. They also got like 7-9 Sacks outta Daniels. That 2 gapping should keep your LBs cleaner, and often the DTs would be sacrificing stats and their bodies so the guys behind them could get the glory.
Got a bit cute with the wording, but I was looking mostly at the size and function of our DEs there. It was a charmed season for a lot of guys, and outside of it Daniels was a dependable 5-6-sack, edge-setting DE wherever he went. In retrospect, that might be the rich man's version of what our coaches are looking for at the position.

Colvin would come up to the line, but I don't recall him replacing anyone there. Long time ago, but I remember him strictly as a blitzing LB, not as a replacement DE. Nothing about our personnel or our coaches' history suggests that we're going to do that this year.
Cover 2 is typically more of a one gap get off the ball slanting scheme. All that talk about Dexter and Pickens converting from read/react to firing off the ball is indicative of converting from more of a 2 gap to a 1 gap scheme. If you have all undersized quick guys in there across the board you're going to get bowled over (see Wanne's defense with guys like Zorich, Flanagan and Thierry in there). Even Lovie had big under tackles/NTs that were the DTs opposite 3 tech Tommie Harris. I think they're hoping Pickens/Dexter can grow into a player like KC's Chris Jones (is he in camp yet? Is he in OUR camp yet?).
Yes, fine. Jones and Billings should be able to command their gaps well enough to keep O-lines honest and to let our LBs focus on their primary assignments. I really like both of those guys, and while I still think we'll see them at their best if they flip roles, I like the rookies a lot, too.

But in standard sets, that still leaves one guy double-teamed and the rest free to take advantage of one-on-one matchups. Last year, that guy was our most effective pass-rusher, because nobody else made sense to double. And now we seem to be moving deliberately away from even that level of pass-rushing performance. Walker, to beat a dead horse, has always been more effective inside. The backups, who could've added some wrinkles, apparently save their good play for practice. Much as I like him, I don't know if Jones has the upfield juice to make teams pay for leaving him alone with a guard. Billings is a born NT for a defense like ours, and he has a sack a year to prove it. That leaves the hired gun, the proven double-digit sack artist...and the guy who's going to see a phenomenal amount of double-teaming this year.

Hope it all adds up on the 10th. Don't see it from here, though.
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I agree I remember Rosie rushing as an extra guy mostly.

I know we're worried about the unproven DL. But I think they'll get serious push inside especially with the two young bucks coming in with incredible energy and wreaking havoc. From that I believe very good things will follow. I believe that is what Poles and Flus think too - and that is why the investment in the DTs rather than edge initially. I think Yannick is there as window dressing and while he might clean up in the situation I painted... he will not be the cause, and Sacks And pressures will be a function of playing time not "adding a star".
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That's not what I remembered. In fact, I remember Rosie switching to DE in Passing situations. In fact, he was so good at it, I argued that we should go to a 4-3/3-4 hybrid defense were we could switch back and forth.
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Yeah, Colvin would drop down to DE and Robinson would slide inside.
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I'm in my mid-50s, so consider the early-onset dementia, but I remember Colvin moving down a lot in 2002, when we paid for that amazing 2001 with a bunch of injuries and Robinson moved inside pretty frequently (maybe permanently?) Then again, I was young enough to fool myself into thinking that Robinson was a budding Dan Hampton and Colvin was Wilbur Marshall from the flipside.
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 10:05 pm That's not what I remembered. In fact, I remember Rosie switching to DE in Passing situations. In fact, he was so good at it, I argued that we should go to a 4-3/3-4 hybrid defense were we could switch back and forth.
LOL, Yogi I remember those conversations like they were yesterday. It was like you wanted the defense to be like Rocky, switching from southpaw to conventional.
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The Grizzly One wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 10:24 am
Bearfacts wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 2:05 am

It's a huge benefit to every team as far as keeping players who need more time to develop. These guys make up a large part of the "scout team" and get to match up against the starters every week in practice. If they're ascending they get noticed and when injuries happen they get elevated to the 53 man roster.

I thought we had quite a few guys who showed well in camp and in the preseason. Provided they clear waivers they can be signed to the PS and that includes up to six vets no matter how much previous NFL experience they've had. IMHO that's major improvement from the way the PS used to be handled. These are all vested vets we released who if they don't sign elsewhere can be signed to the PS.

Andrew Brown, defensive tackle
Aviante Collins, tackle
Daurice Fountain, receiver
Nathan Peterman, quarterback
Greg Stroman Jr., cornerback
Nsimba Webster, receiver
Don't forget my guy D'Anthony Jones, defensive end
He's a rookie. The above are all vested vets who are now FA looking for deals somewhere else. Even a deal for vet minimum is higher pay than a PS gig but a PS gig is still better than no gig at all and it puts someone in a position to be elevated to the 53 man roster later on in the event of an injury or someone else whose been released.
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Moriarty wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:16 pm
karhu wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 2:31 pm Weird how we chose a Cover 2 coach who prefers Dick Jauron's line. Robinson-Washington-Traylor-Daniels clicked like mad that one year when they were all healthy, but we also blitzed like crazy: our starting LBs had more sacks than our entire line and our safeties had just half a sack fewer than our entire LDE rotation. That's not going to happen this year.
Yeah, it was a fun line.

But there's no Phillip Daniels in this group
There's no Hall of Famer on the inside
And, as noted, you don't spam blitzes out of a Cover 2

We might get a lot of practice quoting Greg Blache, though.
("sacks don't matter")
LOL yes give me 2 HOF'ers on defense with Washington and Urlacher. Keith Traylor was no slouch on the inside either. 2 safeties that hit like Mike Tyson (Parrish and Brown). An above average / semi-elite OLB for his time in Rosie Colvin and a solidly productive DE with Daniels.

Look at what a defensive genius I am!

This is what I get confused about what they're trying to accomplish with this defense. While I understand that Rome wasn't built in a day, how is it that we run a Cover-2, but we don't first focus on the defensive line to generate the pressure so we don't have to blitz?

Then what is the identity of this line? What are we trying to do? We don't rush the passer. We don't stop the run. That whole thing is what makes me think 1) Poles underinvested in the DL. 2) Williams isn't the right guy at DC.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 3:39 am
This is what I get confused about what they're trying to accomplish with this defense. While I understand that Rome wasn't built in a day, how is it that we run a Cover-2, but we don't first focus on the defensive line to generate the pressure so we don't have to blitz?

Then what is the identity of this line? What are we trying to do? We don't rush the passer. We don't stop the run. That whole thing is what makes me think 1) Poles underinvested in the DL. 2) Williams isn't the right guy at DC.
exactly
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If we take Poles' comment here
https://www.si.com/nfl/bears/news/ryan- ... -finishing

"More specifically, Poles set a percentage on what he has been able to address with the most salary cap space in free agency and the draft.

"Again it's hard until you start playing—just being realistic, man, I mean on paper, 80%, 75%," Poles said about areas he addressed. "But at the end of the day, like when the lights come on and we play a real game, the energy levels differ, the speed is different.

"We'll be able to evaluate that as we go through the season. But I feel good again. Just on paper, I feel good about the progress and I feel we took a chunk out of what we needed to."

Does that seem about right? Still feels like Edge Rusher is underwhelming, but I think he acknowledged that as much both before and after the Yannick signing.
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I can't imagine the bears carrying 7 WRs through the whole season. Is this simply an effort to buy a few more weeks for Scott or Jones to learn how to catch punts? What are you guys predicting?
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crueltyabc wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:27 am I can't imagine the bears carrying 7 WRs through the whole season. Is this simply an effort to buy a few more weeks for Scott or Jones to learn how to catch punts? What are you guys predicting?
No, 7 is unreasonable.

I think it's got to be either Claypool to IR or ESB out.
Distant 3rd would be Velus out.
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Moriarty wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:58 am
crueltyabc wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:27 am I can't imagine the bears carrying 7 WRs through the whole season. Is this simply an effort to buy a few more weeks for Scott or Jones to learn how to catch punts? What are you guys predicting?
No, 7 is unreasonable.

I think it's got to be either Claypool to IR or ESB out.
Distant 3rd would be Velus out.
Oh man... Claypool to IR would be just SO brutal.
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IE wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:55 am
Moriarty wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:58 am

No, 7 is unreasonable.

I think it's got to be either Claypool to IR or ESB out.
Distant 3rd would be Velus out.
Oh man... Claypool to IR would be just SO brutal.
I'm guessing ESB is out. At best he's a skinny blocking TE.
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Noots wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 11:31 pm
Yogi da Bear wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 10:05 pm That's not what I remembered. In fact, I remember Rosie switching to DE in Passing situations. In fact, he was so good at it, I argued that we should go to a 4-3/3-4 hybrid defense were we could switch back and forth.
LOL, Yogi I remember those conversations like they were yesterday. It was like you wanted the defense to be like Rocky, switching from southpaw to conventional.
I do too, and I'm still of the same opinion. I still don't understand why the offense can run through all those formations and motions and plays while the defense is supposed to be isolated to one defense. I don't see why it can't switch it up.
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Alexandre: 8.41 RAS, interesting story (basketball player until junior year of HS, tons of charitable work), 6'3", stout with long arms.

Hardy: 9.34 RAS, interesting story (dad died before he started college, helped provide for his mom and siblings), 6'2" [EDIT: I'd originally cited his college-listed height of 6'3"] with long arms, 240 pounds makes him a what exactly in our system? Promising STer at least.

Murray: Experienced groundskeeper, which we can use.
Last edited by karhu on Thu Aug 31, 2023 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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karhu wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 12:24 pm
Murray: Experienced groundskeeper, which we can use.
Also adds assurance that Mrs. McCaskey’s ghost will be comfortably escorted into Ecto-Containment when the time comes.
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Kramer to IR was expected, but man they are thin.
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karhu wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 12:24 pm Alexandre: 8.41 RAS, interesting story (basketball player until junior year of HS, tons of charitable work), 6'3", stout with long arms.

Hardy: 9.34 RAS, interesting story (dad died before he started college, helped provide for his mom and siblings), 6'2" [EDIT: I'd originally cited his college-listed height of 6'3"] with long arms, 240 pounds makes him a what exactly in our system? Promising STer at least.

Murray: Experienced groundskeeper, which we can use.
Romo: Failed holder decides to take a shot at the other end as a kicker.
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Alexandre: meh. Another bigger, slower, more run-oriented DE. Don't see any special traits or upside hopes.

Daniel Hardy: Really athletic BJ, VJ, cone. Played DE at a minor program, but too small to remain. Really makes more sense as a 34 OLB, but Bears are going to try him as a conventional LB, I guess.

Bill Murray: Small school DT, spent 2 yrs on NE PS, then they converted him to G last year.

John Parker Romo: Only really kicked 1 year in college. Was the 21st ranked kicker in his draft class (about 3-4/yr end up playing in the league much). Apparently got on the radar by kicking fairly well for the San Antonio Brahmas (XFL) this spring.
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I’m still struggling with rostering 7 receivers but it’s whatever.
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The practice squad is completely random. Filled with players who are weird fits or don’t really have a position.

It’s very odd.
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wab wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 1:22 pm The practice squad is completely random. Filled with players who are weird fits or don’t really have a position.

It’s very odd.
Not only that, but guys who were on the roster ahead of another player who went to PS...then the first guy gets cut after a last minute move and...doesn't even receive a PS invite?
How does that work?
(Lewis, AJ Thomas)

:?
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Moriarty wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 1:36 pm
wab wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 1:22 pm The practice squad is completely random. Filled with players who are weird fits or don’t really have a position.

It’s very odd.
Not only that, but guys who were on the roster ahead of another player who went to PS...then the first guy gets cut after a last minute move and...doesn't even receive a PS invite?
How does that work?
(Lewis, AJ Thomas)

:?
We don't know that they didn't get a PS invite. The fact that fringe guys dont' go directly to the PS oftentimes means they have other irons in the fire & decline hoping to catch on in a better place for them. So it makes sense for the Bears to not have some of those guys like Lewis.
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What is the impact of having 3 QBs and 7 WRs on the roster?

As of today, the OT4 is Bill Murray who would need to be elevated from the practice squad. Alternatively you hope that Tev is healthy and you kick him out to tackle. Wow.
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artbest01 wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:43 pm IMO, Eberflus is trying to replicate what he had in Indy, which is not analogous to the 2001 Chicago Bears. It seems like he's hoping that Dexter and Pickens can be a new version of Buckner and Stewart. DT's with length and size but NOT 350+lbs of 2-gapping size. He also seems to like his DE's to be sturdier with their hands in the dirt than what we often see with 3/4 OLBs.

He uses a similar approach to what Lovie and his mentor Rod Marinelli used, but he also seems like his DT's to be more stout. Lovie's run defenses were, arguably, at their best when he paired a bona-fide 3T with Angelo acquisitions made during the Jauron era - Ian Scott and Alphonso Boone. Both were much better at stopping the run imo than, say, Dusty Dvoracek. It wasn't until Anthony Adams arrived (Matt Toeaina and Stephen Paea were strong in the weight room, not sure they were particularly stout at the LOS) that the Bear run defense was buttressed.

Eberflus seems to prefer dlinemen who can both get upfield and be stout at the point of attack
Every scheme and variation has their preferred profile for each position
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5-6 wins, never really healthy all season, a constant shuffling.
We're potentially in a position to draft in the Top 5 again, depending on the Carolina team, and probably have a low-teens (or better) pick ourselves.
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Capitans have been announced for whatever it's worth...

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