OL Shuffle Continued: Davis back/Whitehair benched

[RichH55]

Well Tev got tossed a few times last night. 95 is a beast! He still won his fair share, wasn’t terrible but not his best game for sure.

Clearly not one of his better games. But that just happens sometimes. As WAB said, Brown is a very good player who should get more hype than he does. Your comparison to Dexter is spot on. They are both incredibly strong men who are very quick for their size.

Agreed here

[crueltyabc]

It seems like they could have made an effort to double Brown more but that’s asking a lot for this offense to make sense

[HisRoyalSweetness]

[HisRoyalSweetness]

[HisRoyalSweetness]

This is fun to listen to. Teven's got some personality!

[Arkansasbear]

So Nate Davis is back at practice. Based upon how the like to "ease" OL back in games, I see them doing the following dumb thing.

Whitehair starts at LG and Jenkins at RG. They bring in Davis for a few serious and shift Jenkins to LG. Then they sit Davis bring Whitehair back in to play LG and shift Jenkins back to RG and do that the whole game.

[Arkansasbear]

This is fun to listen to. Teven's got some personality!

It's a good watch about 13 minutes.

[AZ_Bearfan]

Whitehair starts at LG and Jenkins at RG. They bring in Davis for a few serious and shift Jenkins to LG. Then they sit Davis bring Whitehair back in to play LG and shift Jenkins back to RG and do that the whole game.

He's like the Julius Peppers of the offensive line. You can line him up anywhere to keep the defense off balance.

[Mikefive]

So Nate Davis is back at practice. Based upon how the like to "ease" OL back in games, I see them doing the following dumb thing.

Whitehair starts at LG and Jenkins at RG. They bring in Davis for a few serious and shift Jenkins to LG. Then they sit Davis bring Whitehair back in to play LG and shift Jenkins back to RG and do that the whole game.

Wow. You're right about "easing in" as the Bears tend to do that. But yikes, that's kooky. I figured they'd just bring Davis back when he's ready--no need to rush him back--and throw him in at RG, move Jenkins to LG and be done with it. The idea of keeping Jenkins at RG when you're paying Davis $11M knowing he's a RG only when you signed him seems like a recipe for failure. Obviously, it's time for Whitehair to sit. Gotta play your best 5. But he's quality depth, at least at LG.

Regarding the "but Jenkins and Wright are a powerhouse together" argument, that's fair, but when Davis was in there before with Jenkins at LG, that combo worked pretty well too and it wasn't like our run game was suffering.

[wab]

Yeah I’d imagine they’ll just move Jenkins back to LG, Whitehair back to center, and put Davis in at RG.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Whitehair to Center

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Yeah I’d imagine they’ll just move Jenkins back to LG, Whitehair back to center, and put Davis in at RG.

Whitehair back to center? I'm not sure about that.

[RichH55]

I don't think Lucas Patrick has been a problem at Center - there I said it

[Rusty Trombagent]

I don't think Lucas Patrick has been a problem at Center - there I said it

His play has definitely improved as the season has worn on, and as the play of the guards has improved around him. Like the old adage about OL's needing consistency is actually pretty true!

I'm still in the draft hours replacement camp because there is room for improvement and he's not been the most reliable guy on the injury front. But he's not losing us games right now.

[southdakbearfan]

Whitehair to Center

For some other team, next year.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I don't think Lucas Patrick has been a problem at Center - there I said it

His play has definitely improved as the season has worn on, and as the play of the guards has improved around him. Like the old adage about OL's needing consistency is actually pretty true!

I'm still in the draft hours replacement camp because there is room for improvement and he's not been the most reliable guy on the injury front. But he's not losing us games right now.

Patrick's not been good, just better than Whitehair because whilst his snapping isn't reliable it isn't quite as erratic. Neither played center in college and should never have been expected to play the position in the NFL. Shotgun snaps are critical in today's league and not every player can handle them. It's not enough just to get the ball to the QB,. The emphasis on the timing of plays, with the QB's eyes, footwork and release all being tied in to match those of the receivers means the ball has to be snapped to the right place consistently. Neither Whitehair or Patrick can deliver anything like that consistency even when they're not wildly inaccurate.

[Rusty Trombagent]

Neither played center in college and should never have been expected to play the position in the NFL.

Why? Players get moved from their college positions to new positions on the OL all the time. Mitch Morse, one of the highest paid centers in the league, played RT in college.

[Moriarty]

His play has definitely improved as the season has worn on, and as the play of the guards has improved around him. Like the old adage about OL's needing consistency is actually pretty true!

I'm still in the draft hours replacement camp because there is room for improvement and he's not been the most reliable guy on the injury front. But he's not losing us games right now.

Patrick's not been good, just better than Whitehair because whilst his snapping isn't reliable it isn't quite as erratic. Neither played center in college and should never have been expected to play the position in the NFL.

Yeah, C generally needs specialized training*.
Cross-training 1-2 of your interior guys to play C in an emergency? Absolutely
Considering a guy with no college C experience a full-time pro C candidate?



* That said, I may make an exception for Conor Williams in the offseason. Shhhh.

[thunderspirit]

In a perfect world, a player with plenty of experience would be your first (and best) option at C. I've looked at a lot of those on draft boards in the past several seasons, indicating what a sore spot it's been for the Bears.

But I'm with Rusty on this. Players are moved all the time coming into the NFL.
stares in NFL

The issue comes when the team doesn't seem to recognize whether a player is capable of making that transition.
stares in Chicago Bears

[wab]

Yeah I’d imagine they’ll just move Jenkins back to LG, Whitehair back to center, and put Davis in at RG.

Whitehair back to center? I'm not sure about that.

Someone has to sit when Davis comes back...and it's probably going to be the backup (Patrick).

[Rusty Trombagent]

Whitehair back to center? I'm not sure about that.

Someone has to sit when Davis comes back...and it's probably going to be the backup (Patrick).

They announced about 15 minutes ago that Whitehair is odd man out.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Neither played center in college and should never have been expected to play the position in the NFL.

Why? Players get moved from their college positions to new positions on the OL all the time. Mitch Morse, one of the highest paid centers in the league, played RT in college.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but Center is a specialist position simply because it involves the all-important exchange of the ball to the QB. Not every O-lineman can handle that, which is what we've seen time and again from both Whitehair and Patrick.

As I say, it's not just getting the ball into the QB's hands but where the ball arrives. If the QB has to regularly adjust to even catch the ball then it can throw the whole timing of a play off. It also sows doubts in his mind about where the ball is going to be on every shotgun play. A top center can put the ball in the QB's hands in the exact same spot the vast majority of the time. If he's been doing that throughout his college days then he's mastered that skill and it's second-nature. If he has to learn that in the NFL, along with everything else, then there are no guarantees he'll be able to do it well and that's what we've seen with the Bears' centers.

If snapping was simple why bother having a specialist long-snapper taking up a roster spot? Why not just earmark one of the backup O-linemen to fulfill that role?

[Rusty Trombagent]

In a perfect world, a player with plenty of experience would be your first (and best) option at C. I've looked at a lot of those on draft boards in the past several seasons, indicating what a sore spot it's been for the Bears.

But I'm with Rusty on this. Players are moved all the time coming into the NFL.
stares in NFL

The issue comes when the team doesn't seem to recognize whether a player is capable of making that transition.
stares in Chicago Bears

Well I think too the issue is when teams move guys between guard and center, multiple times, in the same season. That is just not a fair situation!

I 100% agree that snapping a football is a specialized skillset that you're not going to just turn on and off.

[Rusty Trombagent]

Why? Players get moved from their college positions to new positions on the OL all the time. Mitch Morse, one of the highest paid centers in the league, played RT in college.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but Center is a specialist position simply because it involves the all-important exchange of the ball to the QB. Not every O-lineman can handle that, which is what we've seen time and again from both Whitehair and Patrick.

As I say, it's not just getting the ball into the QB's hands but where the ball arrives. If the QB has to regularly adjust to even catch the ball then it can throw the whole timing of a play off. It also sows doubts in his mind about where the ball is going to be on every shotgun play. A top center can put the ball in the QB's hands in the exact same spot the vast majority of the time. If he's been doing that throughout his college days then he's mastered that skill and it's second-nature. If he has to learn that in the NFL, along with everything else, then there are no guarantees he'll be able to do it well and that's what we've seen with the Bears' centers.

If snapping was simple why bother having a specialist long-snapper taking up a roster spot? Why not just earmark one of the backup O-linemen to fulfill that role?

There's kind of a gray area between "a college guard can move to center in the nfl" and "snapping is so easy just have your punter do it" dont you think?

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Teams move guys from their college position but those same teams generally have functional coaching staff.

Bears don’t

[dplank]

I'm not saying it can't be done, but Center is a specialist position simply because it involves the all-important exchange of the ball to the QB. Not every O-lineman can handle that, which is what we've seen time and again from both Whitehair and Patrick.

As I say, it's not just getting the ball into the QB's hands but where the ball arrives. If the QB has to regularly adjust to even catch the ball then it can throw the whole timing of a play off. It also sows doubts in his mind about where the ball is going to be on every shotgun play. A top center can put the ball in the QB's hands in the exact same spot the vast majority of the time. If he's been doing that throughout his college days then he's mastered that skill and it's second-nature. If he has to learn that in the NFL, along with everything else, then there are no guarantees he'll be able to do it well and that's what we've seen with the Bears' centers.

If snapping was simple why bother having a specialist long-snapper taking up a roster spot? Why not just earmark one of the backup O-linemen to fulfill that role?

There's kind of a gray area between "a college guard can move to center in the nfl" and "snapping is so easy just have your punter do it" dont you think?

Its very player specific. Personally, I couldn't play C. The few times I tried I was just too slow going from snap to block and guys got leverage on me every time. You have to be really quick to play C IMO.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I'm not saying it can't be done, but Center is a specialist position simply because it involves the all-important exchange of the ball to the QB. Not every O-lineman can handle that, which is what we've seen time and again from both Whitehair and Patrick.

As I say, it's not just getting the ball into the QB's hands but where the ball arrives. If the QB has to regularly adjust to even catch the ball then it can throw the whole timing of a play off. It also sows doubts in his mind about where the ball is going to be on every shotgun play. A top center can put the ball in the QB's hands in the exact same spot the vast majority of the time. If he's been doing that throughout his college days then he's mastered that skill and it's second-nature. If he has to learn that in the NFL, along with everything else, then there are no guarantees he'll be able to do it well and that's what we've seen with the Bears' centers.

If snapping was simple why bother having a specialist long-snapper taking up a roster spot? Why not just earmark one of the backup O-linemen to fulfill that role?

There's kind of a gray area between "a college guard can move to center in the nfl" and "snapping is so easy just have your punter do it" dont you think?

Eh? Punter? Who said anything about a punter?

The long and the short of it is that just because a guy can play Guard (or Tackle) doesn't mean he can master the art of snapping the ball.

A team can try and teach a non-center how to do it, but even with plenty of practice some just won't be able to do or at least won't be able to do it well. Whitehair and Patrick fall into that category.

It's not different to any other position. There are plenty of RBs who can run the ball well but never develop as receivers or into good pass blockers for example. Some older CBs move over to S but they don't necessarily succeed there despite both roles being "defensive backs". Brian Urlacher started out at SLB and didn't play well there but was a revelation at MLB. Every position requires specific skills. Snapping is one for center that the other O-line positions don't require, so why should the expectation be that players in those positions can learn how to do it effectively?

[o-pus #40 in B major]

Agree, center should be pretty high on Pole's draft wish list.

[Noots]

If they can get a + Center, their OL would be in really good shape.

[wab]

I'm in shock that they actually did the thing that they needed to do, instead of the thing they usually do...