Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

[Otis Day]

Running is part of JF's game and that provides more opportunity for injury. I am not advocating for him to not run, but 18 times a game seems a little much. It worked yesterday, but did not equal a win and we know why. Jackson has managed to play in 12 games each of the last 2 seasons due to injury. I believe an injury while in the pocket ended one of those years.

I think Todd Monken (Knox College graduate and kick ass QB) has attempted to have less designed runs. But at his current rate of 9 runs a game, that is how often he ran last year (on avg). Jackson had a rate of 11 rushes per game in 2021 and 2019. His low was 9 a game, last year. In 2021 Jackson avg 31 pass attempts a game (his high) which also coincided with his high of 11 rushes a game

Fields is averaging 9 rushes a game this year. His avg per game last year was 10.

Running QBs, it is great when it works, but the risk of injury increases. It would be nice to only have to have JF run 6-8 times a game.

[G08]

He will never win with certain people. That's just glaringly obvious to me.

Yep and that's why it's best to just gloss over and laugh

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

He will never win with certain people. That's just glaringly obvious to me.

Yes it is

[artbest01]

Fair. Unfortunately, for a variety of reasons - many of which have nothing to do with him, Fields' career won-loss record is abysmal. His numbers, save for Lamar's MVP season, look alot like the Baltimore QB. Russell Wilson, to date, has been far more productive - including and especially early in his career than Fields. Wilson has never thrown for under 3,000 yards in a season. Fields has yet to throw for 2500 yards in a season.

The one "X" factor for the Ravens and Seahawks (obviously) was defense. Jackson and Wilson have benefited from elite defenses. The Bears had an ok defense in 2021, an abominable defense in 2022 and an average defense in 2023.

This all goes back to what a new head coach, if the Bears have the 1st or 2nd pick, wants to do at QB. How does he compare the upside - the projection - of Williams and Maye versus Justin Fields? Does this head coach think Williams is another Baker Mayfield or does he think he's a cross between Patrick Mahomes and Kyler Murray? Does this prospective new head coach think Drake Maye is a taller Mitchell Trubisky or another Justin Herbert?

If the Bears fall out of the top 2, I think this question becomes moot. They ride with Fields imo. If they have one of the top 2 picks, then, honestly, I don't know

This game was reminiscent of what we saw from Fields a year ago from the NE game onward. The game plan clearly was aimed at trying to win the game with what they had rather than trying to make Justin Fields something he may not be. The Bears controlled most of the game and found a way to lose in historic fashion.

The question for me is whether this kind of approach is sustainable. Having Justin carry the ball 18 times seems to be setting him up for a beating. A year ago, he clearly was badly fatigued and beat up as the season wore on.

I'm hoping he learned from a rough outing against Minnesota and handles the blitz much better next Monday night. With Dobbs starting, this is a "winnable" game. Would be nice for Justin to get his second win in his career against a NFC North opponent.

As far as Fields' future, it seemingly hinges on:

* his play over the next 6 games

* who is coaching the Bears next season

* where the Bears are drafting next April

* what the Bears think about Caleb Williams' and Drake Mayes' long-term potential versus Justin's.

A lot of folks on message boards and social media have jumped off the Caleb Williams bandwagon due to lesser stats this season and questions about his maturity (blowing off post game press conferences). Have NFL teams also done so? How do NFL teams really feel about Drake Maye? If the Bears hire a new head coach, and they have the first or second pick in the draft, is said head coach going to want to stick with Justin Fields or will he want a fresh start with his own guy? I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to vacuous spit-balling, but, in reality, what would a new head coach want to do with Fields?

I do think this is sustainable Art, but the injury issue is what worries me. I look at the Ravens and Lamar, he's STILL winning games at an alarming rate and playing this style of football. But again, injuries have held Lamar and the Ravens back from winning a championship.

That said, let this sink in for a moment Art - Lamar Jackson is in his 6th year now (so plenty of time to say this style is 'sustainable') and is a REMARKABLE 53-19. That's not a typo, Lamar Jackson is 53-19 since entering the NFL. Here they are, yet again, at 8-3 this season. This is what I want for the Bears, a consistent winning franchise that is a threat year in and year out.

Russell Wilson, another good comp, has a career record of 113-69. We could only be so fortunate.

The downside is injuries and shortened careers. But I'll take that over the disaster QB situation we've had for the last 40 years.

[malk]

Jackson and Wilson were on much better teams so that's most of the difference in W/L right there. I say most because even with a poor teams I think a QB who will go onto be great wills his way to more wins than Fields' 6-26 record, even just by winning some of the bum fights.

But if Justin can kick on from Sunday's performance he can be a winning QB. Hell, if Scott hauls in that pass we likely win the game and Fields' numbers passing numbers are at 200 yards which is the kind of small difference needed.

But my biggest worry is still that Jackson is his upper limit and I want more than 53-19 in the regular season and 1-3 in the postseason where the only win is a wild card game against a very average Titans team.

[Shadow]

I would be fine with rolling with Fields and Bagent plus a mid rounder at QB for 2024. Load up on picks and players to fill out this roster. (It is still weak in areas). I would rather see the FO build for the future and sustained success, rather than trying to go all in on a new QB without the trenches filled and some stalwart players on both sides of the ball. Build from the inside out. For once provide a Bears QB with a rock solid roster on both side of the ball. Just my opinion, but I think Justin can still be the guy with the right talent around him, or even Bagent for that matter.

Coaching staff needs a hard look though, yeah I am looking at you Getsy. Maybe bring in Frazier as DC to relieve Flus from the D play calling.

If Flus is back next year, I sincerely hope he hires Leslie Frazier as his DC. That should (on paper, anyway) be a beautiful pairing plus he is very familiar with Tremaine Edmunds.

Offensively, I don't know if I could stomach another season of Getsy, but who would come into what could be Flus' lame-duck season?

Such a tangled web we weave here in Chicago...

After this Lions game fiasco, I think Flus will get one more year, if, he cans Getsy and hires a real DC. (I am hoping for Frazier) If he plans to be too loyal to his coaching staff as it is, he will get the sack.

[Shadow]

I thought the bomb to Scott was one of his best throws of the game. Weird decision on scott to not run through it. But i dont hate the decision at all. Bears fans are just conditioned to default to the world's most conservative offense.

That was my thought too. Scott let up a little then was a half step too late. He runs through it and makes that catch, it is game over.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I worry that we have the wrong people who are making the decision on Fields.

Flus - terrible
Getsy - clueless

Poles - he picked Flus.

Sorry but with any combination of these 3 individuals making the decision on Fields it will be a complete omnishambles.

[Otis Day]

I like the call, but like it better on 2nd down. To attempt to run up the gut on the first 2 plays was just asinine.

[G08]

[Mikefive]

I dont want to quibble with semantics - great or very good, whichever folks prefer is fine.

I would say though Malk, regarding the passing yards, that with Fields you always have to look at combined yards. Every time he runs it’s one less pass rep that he has towards his passing numbers. And as was said before the game (so no hindsight) his running and a ball control offense designed to keep Detroit off the field was the game plan. And it worked. So I view his combined yards, nearly 300, as really good.

The other thing I look at is just the feel of it from watching the game - 100% independent of stats. He was in total control, showed great awareness and vision all day, minimized mistakes and negative plays, and was undeniably the best player in the football field while the Bears were on offense. That’s exactly what I was looking for from him, and he delivered it.

Give me 6 more games just like it please.

Absolutely not, unless you only want Fields to play only 10 games a year. There's no way Fields is going to survive rushing 18x a game. I want my QB to be on the field in January, not IR.

[wab]

I want more than 53-19 in the regular season and 1-3 in the postseason where the only win is a wild card game against a very average Titans team.

I'd damn near sell my soul for this after the last...how many years of pain?

[artbest01]

I don't know if that's the case. I DO think, if the Bears manage to win 2 more games, Flus has a real shot at coming back. If he wins 3 more games, he's definitely coming back. If the Bears have 3 or 4 wins, I think Poles will move on.

The challenge, again, will be attracting quality coordinators. Eberflus will enter 2024 as the coach on the hottest seat in the league. Will a top-flight OC eschew other opportunities to be on Eberflus' staff? Maybe Greg Roman will bite? Or, perhaps more likely, Eberflus promotes from within (Janocko?).

As for the DC, I think, if he wants it, it will be Phil Snow.

If Flus is back next year, I sincerely hope he hires Leslie Frazier as his DC. That should (on paper, anyway) be a beautiful pairing plus he is very familiar with Tremaine Edmunds.

Offensively, I don't know if I could stomach another season of Getsy, but who would come into what could be Flus' lame-duck season?

Such a tangled web we weave here in Chicago...

After this Lions game fiasco, I think Flus will get one more year, if, he cans Getsy and hires a real DC. (I am hoping for Frazier) If he plans to be too loyal to his coaching staff as it is, he will get the sack.

[Yogi da Bear]

I thought the bomb to Scott was one of his best throws of the game. Weird decision on scott to not run through it. But i dont hate the decision at all. Bears fans are just conditioned to default to the world's most conservative offense.

It was a money throw, I would have liked any deep attempt on second down..

That was simply a beautiful throw. I think that Scott slowed down because he didn't expect Fields to get it there. The throw to DJ was also beautiful. When the Bears had the ball on that drive, I turned to my kid and said, "Watch them crawl into a hole now." They did for those first two plays, but that pass to Scott was thing of beauty. We finally have a QB who can consistently hit that deep shot. Should add 80 yards to Fields' passing total for the game.

I haven't watched much of Maye, but I have seen a lot of both Williams and Penix. Fields is much better than either of them. Some of the plays Fields made yesterday were just jaw dropping. I also liked how Fields took command of the offense. He wasn't shy about addressing Feeney with the snap situation. Still trying to figure out why Getsy called a Fields sweep to the left when the first one he called did so poorly?

Anybody who thinks that Fields played a helluva game is simply beyond biased. Myself, I don't need to even see the rest of the year. Fields should be our QB going forward. He's light years beyond Williams.

[artbest01]

Scott said he slowed down because he lost track of the ball.

As far as throws, I've seen Williams make plays and throws I haven't seen Fields make at any level - particularly on the move under duress. Yesterday, Fields did overcome the "get pressured/drop eyes" approach he went back to against the Vikings...but, despite all of his foibles this year, that's something Williams doesn't do - he seems to keep his eyes downfield.

The question is whether NFL GMs and scouts still hold Williams in the same regard that they did heading into 2023...and, if he has the #1 pick, how does Ryan Poles compare Fields to Williams (and Maye). Jay Cutler made some AMAZING throws and plays in his career...but, all in all, his many years with the Bears were ultimately a disappointment. Fields is a different person and player than Jay, but he's been less productive - to date.

Fields is the best physical specimen I've ever seen at QB in the Bears' uniform. He throws a gorgeous deep ball and has elite WR level speed. Can he become a consistent, winning NFL starting QB and, more importantly, does Poles think he has more upside than Williams and/or Maye.

[RichH55]

The Lions have the #2 rushing defense and Fields put 105 yards on them.

That has to count for something, no?

Fields led an offense that put up 26 points, and watched his team's defense give up 17 points in less than 3 game minutes.

But yeah, his fault.

If only that Defense would have gotten like 4 turnovers and gave him favorable field position time and again - Is that allowed? Or just blame coaching - it's 100% their fault?

He played Good - you can even get me to very good (Not Great - no) - And the Scott throw was 100% Scott's fault (You aren't going to see me pulling a Velus Jones - it's actually Bagents fault type thing)

If that's great - that's not enough. If that's merely what a "good" game looks like? Ok then. We might have something

[Mr.Irrelevant]

I don't know if that's the case. I DO think, if the Bears manage to win 2 more games, Flus has a real shot at coming back. If he wins 3 more games, he's definitely coming back. If the Bears have 3 or 4 wins, I think Poles will move on.

The challenge, again, will be attracting quality coordinators. Eberflus will enter 2024 as the coach on the hottest seat in the league. Will a top-flight OC eschew other opportunities to be on Eberflus' staff? Maybe Greg Roman will bite? Or, perhaps more likely, Eberflus promotes from within (Janocko?).

As for the DC, I think, if he wants it, it will be Phil Snow.

After this Lions game fiasco, I think Flus will get one more year, if, he cans Getsy and hires a real DC. (I am hoping for Frazier) If he plans to be too loyal to his coaching staff as it is, he will get the sack.

Two days ago I would have agreed with you that Flus is back with 6 wins this year. Now I'm not so sure. It's not that we lost to Detroit, I think most of us expected that going in. It's the way we lost, being way to conservative on offense and too soft on defense at the end of the game. Add that to a 6-11 record and I think he should be gone.

[Yogi da Bear]

Scott said he slowed down because he lost track of the ball.

As far as throws, I've seen Williams make plays and throws I haven't seen Fields make at any level - particularly on the move under duress. Yesterday, Fields did overcome the "get pressured/drop eyes" approach he went back to against the Vikings...but, despite all of his foibles this year, that's something Williams doesn't do - he seems to keep his eyes downfield.

The question is whether NFL GMs and scouts still hold Williams in the same regard that they did heading into 2023...and, if he has the #1 pick, how does Ryan Poles compare Fields to Williams (and Maye). Jay Cutler made some AMAZING throws and plays in his career...but, all in all, his many years with the Bears were ultimately a disappointment. Fields is a different person and player than Jay, but he's been less productive - to date.

Fields is the best physical specimen I've ever seen at QB in the Bears' uniform. He throws a gorgeous deep ball and has elite WR level speed. Can he become a consistent, winning NFL starting QB and, more importantly, does Poles think he has more upside than Williams and/or Maye.

Williams can't and never will be able to do half the shit that Fields did yesterday.

[RichH55]

Scott said he slowed down because he lost track of the ball.

As far as throws, I've seen Williams make plays and throws I haven't seen Fields make at any level - particularly on the move under duress. Yesterday, Fields did overcome the "get pressured/drop eyes" approach he went back to against the Vikings...but, despite all of his foibles this year, that's something Williams doesn't do - he seems to keep his eyes downfield.

The question is whether NFL GMs and scouts still hold Williams in the same regard that they did heading into 2023...and, if he has the #1 pick, how does Ryan Poles compare Fields to Williams (and Maye). Jay Cutler made some AMAZING throws and plays in his career...but, all in all, his many years with the Bears were ultimately a disappointment. Fields is a different person and player than Jay, but he's been less productive - to date.

Fields is the best physical specimen I've ever seen at QB in the Bears' uniform. He throws a gorgeous deep ball and has elite WR level speed. Can he become a consistent, winning NFL starting QB and, more importantly, does Poles think he has more upside than Williams and/or Maye.

Williams can't and never will be able to do half the shit that Fields did yesterday.

This is patently untrue. But sure - why rain on a parade I guess?

[artbest01]

I don’t believe that’s true. I think Fields is likely faster in the 40 than Williams, but there isn’t a throw that fields made yesterday that Williams can’t do.

There are throws, while on the move, that Williams makes that Justin has yet to make - college or pro..,rarified air plays that are the reason why scouts, however misguided they may turn out to be, compared Williams to Mahomes



quote="Yogi da Bear" post_id=357344 time=1700507380 user_id=2127]

Scott said he slowed down because he lost track of the ball.

As far as throws, I've seen Williams make plays and throws I haven't seen Fields make at any level - particularly on the move under duress. Yesterday, Fields did overcome the "get pressured/drop eyes" approach he went back to against the Vikings...but, despite all of his foibles this year, that's something Williams doesn't do - he seems to keep his eyes downfield.

The question is whether NFL GMs and scouts still hold Williams in the same regard that they did heading into 2023...and, if he has the #1 pick, how does Ryan Poles compare Fields to Williams (and Maye). Jay Cutler made some AMAZING throws and plays in his career...but, all in all, his many years with the Bears were ultimately a disappointment. Fields is a different person and player than Jay, but he's been less productive - to date.

Fields is the best physical specimen I've ever seen at QB in the Bears' uniform. He throws a gorgeous deep ball and has elite WR level speed. Can he become a consistent, winning NFL starting QB and, more importantly, does Poles think he has more upside than Williams and/or Maye.

Williams can't and never will be able to do half the shit that Fields did yesterday.
[/quote]

[bbaker]

I don't think it would be that big of a challenge to attract OC candidates if Eberflus returns. There are some enticing things about the Bears' situation.

1. Fields is highly regarded by a lot of NFL folks, and a lot of potential OC's believe they could be successful with him.
2. Being successful with Fields would be a fast-track to being the next hot Offensive HC candidate (Adam Gase?)
3. If Fields doesn't return, the replacement would likely be a highly drafted QB who will also be enticing.
4. Eberflus is clearly pretty hands-off regarding the offense, so the OC gets to run his own show.


Having said that, the "hot" commodities will be looking for HC opportunities, not an OC job. They would need solid insight into the lower-level assistants with promise, which is a lot more hit & miss.

The bigger issue is that Eberflus is just the WRONG guy. Keeping him and replacing the coordinators would be a disaster, and waste another year.

[The Marshall Plan]

Jackson and Wilson were on much better teams so that's most of the difference in W/L right there. I say most because even with a poor teams I think a QB who will go onto be great wills his way to more wins than Fields' 6-26 record, even just by winning some of the bum fights.

Is JF1 supposed to play 3T and setup the defensive scheme too?

Come on. Don’t go there with the record.

This isn’t basketball where one guy can carry a team.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Williams can't and never will be able to do half the shit that Fields did yesterday.

This is patently untrue. But sure - why rain on a parade I guess?

Given that he’s never played in the NFL, there can be no objective evidence to support your position.

The most accurate we can be is agnostic.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

No self-respecting coach (offense or defense) is going to want to join this dumpster-fire.

Until you get rid of Flus (and Poles if he won’t let go) then the cycle of self-destruction will continue.

[Yogi da Bear]

This is patently untrue. But sure - why rain on a parade I guess?

Given that he’s never played in the NFL, there can be no objective evidence to support your position.

The most accurate we can be is agnostic.

Not patently untrue. With this clip, I think that Fields showed he can make the same throws as Williams, but it also shows moves and speed from Fields that Williams will never be able to come close to.

[dplank]

Scott said he slowed down because he lost track of the ball.

As far as throws, I've seen Williams make plays and throws I haven't seen Fields make at any level - particularly on the move under duress. Yesterday, Fields did overcome the "get pressured/drop eyes" approach he went back to against the Vikings...but, despite all of his foibles this year, that's something Williams doesn't do - he seems to keep his eyes downfield.

The question is whether NFL GMs and scouts still hold Williams in the same regard that they did heading into 2023...and, if he has the #1 pick, how does Ryan Poles compare Fields to Williams (and Maye). Jay Cutler made some AMAZING throws and plays in his career...but, all in all, his many years with the Bears were ultimately a disappointment. Fields is a different person and player than Jay, but he's been less productive - to date.

Fields is the best physical specimen I've ever seen at QB in the Bears' uniform. He throws a gorgeous deep ball and has elite WR level speed. Can he become a consistent, winning NFL starting QB and, more importantly, does Poles think he has more upside than Williams and/or Maye.

It would have to be a lot more upside, a whole lot more, to justify pissing away a Top 1 or 2 pick on one of those guys when you have a good QB already in place. I'd much, much rather use those high picks we have to stack talent on this team. Fields is good enough, right now, to win with.

Ask yourself this question....watching the game yesterday while we were on offense, who was the best player on the field for either team? If you answer isn't Fields, then your blind. It was obvious. People are really overthinking this IMO. I'd rather have Fields + MhJr than just Williams or Maye - and that's the real choice we are looking at here. 2 for 1 swap to go with the QB change, no effing way.

[RichH55]

This is patently untrue. But sure - why rain on a parade I guess?

Given that he’s never played in the NFL, there can be no objective evidence to support your position.

The most accurate we can be is agnostic.

You Don't think Williams could throw for 200 Yards and average 5.8 YPC? Get strip sacked?

Fields just played a good football game. Good, not Great.

It's insane for someone to say "Williams can't do what Fields just did!" (Half the shit!)

It's a bad take.

I tend to point out bad takes

[thunderspirit]

Guys: nothing any of us say is ever going to convince certain people on this board that Fields actually had a game yesterday that is worthy of praise.

Or anything worthy of praise, for that matter.

It's just not going to happen, they've already made up their minds.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I know this is a Justin Fields discussion, but can we just take a moment to appreciate Teven Jenkins in those clips. The first play he pushes his man right across the field and on DJ Moore's TD he leaves his assignment to save Fields after Borom gets beaten inside. Heck they obviously think Jenkins is so good they left him to block two guys enitrely on his own on the play at the 0:45 mark!

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Given that he’s never played in the NFL, there can be no objective evidence to support your position.

The most accurate we can be is agnostic.

You Don't think Williams could throw for 200 Yards and average 5.8 YPC? Get strip sacked?

Fields just played a good football game. Good, not Great.

It's insane for someone to say "Williams can't do what Fields just did!" (Half the shit!)

It's a bad take.

I tend to point out bad takes

It’s not about what I think - I’ve never seen him play in the NFL so whatever opinion I form it would be essentially baseless.