Caleb Williams News and Rumor thread

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dplank
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I’m just waiting for that lightbulb to come on guys, the logic here is brutally bad. Like, apply the statement you just made to: Josh Allen and MVP Lamar Jackson and Justin Herbert and Joe Burrow.

Are they not great QBs? How come your logic doesn’t apply to them?
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:32 pm
wab wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 5:29 pm

I like Daniels a lot. The thought of Daniels and Nabers at 2 and 9 is enticing.
Which of Nabers or Odunze do you see available at 9? My preference is Odunze because of the height advantage. Do you see him making it that far down?
I think they both could be there. I don't believe three receivers have ever gone in the top 10, and I suppose that could change this year, but I generally default to history on these types of things.

However, I do prefer Odunze as well.
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dplank wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:30 pm If he was as good a prospect as those guys, he’d be up there with them on the draft boards.
I think he goes top 15. There's going to be a run on WRs after the top 3 go.
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dplank wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:52 am Rich If we take Williams this is a good plan, and for the “starting 22” you can fill all the holes on the team. I would not be afraid to take the TE or T if we miss on the WRs, both help a lot. Honestly, we’re in such a good position because either direction we go we can improve the team a lot.

My counter to this plan would be that it might be a house of cards that unravels with the inevitable injuries that will occur. A trade down would net an additional 6-7 “Top 75” prospects over the next couple years, allowing Poles to go true BPA and just stack talent everywhere.

Math/cap wise, it’s just impossible to pay for depth with free agents - the depth you can afford generally sucks. Truly deep teams are deep because they have young players pushing vets for playing time.
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dplank wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:55 pm
Heinz D. wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:10 pm

And the 'ayes' have it!

Laitu, Turner, Verse. Whichever.

The draft is the best way to get that guy, which we sorely need...
Not this year unfortunately, you gotta play to the strengths of Free Agency and the draft. FA group looks strong while the top end of the draft for DE looks weak.

Very much in agreement here
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The Kaiser wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:04 am
Heinz D. wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:10 pm

And the 'ayes' have it!

Laitu, Turner, Verse. Whichever.

The draft is the best way to get that guy, which we sorely need...
People are REALLY overlooking Chris Braswell. Watch as much game tape this year (and last) of Dallas Turner and Will Anderson and you'll see #41 flashing constantly on tape. The guy is really good. He has speed, bend, great first step, excellent strength and adequate size-- weighed in at Senior Bowl at 257 with 81" wingspan. He has a great cross chop and is nowhere near his ceiling. I think he'd be a steal at the end of the first/top of the 2nd if we can get a pick there from a Fields trade.

He looked pretty good at Senior Bowl week

I still have him being there in the 2nd Round though
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wab wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:30 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:32 pm

Which of Nabers or Odunze do you see available at 9? My preference is Odunze because of the height advantage. Do you see him making it that far down?
I think they both could be there. I don't believe three receivers have ever gone in the top 10, and I suppose that could change this year, but I generally default to history on these types of things.

However, I do prefer Odunze as well.
I prefer the LSU kid - but just hoping one of them is there
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thunderspirit wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:25 pm
Heinz D. wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:10 pm

And the 'ayes' have it!

Laitu, Turner, Verse. Whichever.

The draft is the best way to get that guy, which we sorely need...
Drafting a guy is very different than spending FA dollars on one.

The ideal scenario is one guy on a high-dollar deal and another outperforming a rookie scale deal.
Indeed - though I think it's more a "mix" in terms of premium positions. You can "overspend" on certain premium positions if you are getting a bargain on others. Basically Pass Rusher, WR, QB, Tackle
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dplank wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:52 am Rich If we take Williams this is a good plan, and for the “starting 22” you can fill all the holes on the team. I would not be afraid to take the TE or T if we miss on the WRs, both help a lot. Honestly, we’re in such a good position because either direction we go we can improve the team a lot.

My counter to this plan would be that it might be a house of cards that unravels with the inevitable injuries that will occur. A trade down would net an additional 6-7 “Top 75” prospects over the next couple years, allowing Poles to go true BPA and just stack talent everywhere.

Math/cap wise, it’s just impossible to pay for depth with free agents - the depth you can afford generally sucks. Truly deep teams are deep because they have young players pushing vets for playing time.
More picks is generally a good idea. Though I think you are gonna add some depth pieces in this years draft too (Christian Jones as OT for example?) - And depending on position - Good depth doesn't have to suck and/or be super expensive - I can see Justin Jones being brought back at a very reasonable price for example.

It's tougher at some positions than others - though I like our Backup QB

I'ts also more useful to have depth at some (you can cycle through DL for example whereas OL - it's a bit all or nothing in terms of snaps - though you obviously want to have quality depth regardless)

I think we are already pretty close to this though in terms of stacking talent.

Trading down from 1 really - for 2024 only adds 1 pick (usually) - it's a nice 2nd mind you, but only one for 2024. It's 2025 and 2026 where you really get the benefit (and it could be a helluva benefit - Don't get me wrong)

But in 2025(*). We will already have a 1st and Two 2nds - Maybe an extra 3rd too depending on what the Fields package ultimately is.
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G08 wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 7:38 pm Regarding Fields, I look at what this offense will be asking our QB to do and can detach my feelings and realize that Caleb Williams is a better fit.
Not to nitpick, but Maye is arguably the better fit. Dude never met a throwing window he was scared to test.
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RichH55 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:22 am
dplank wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:52 am Rich If we take Williams this is a good plan, and for the “starting 22” you can fill all the holes on the team. I would not be afraid to take the TE or T if we miss on the WRs, both help a lot. Honestly, we’re in such a good position because either direction we go we can improve the team a lot.

My counter to this plan would be that it might be a house of cards that unravels with the inevitable injuries that will occur. A trade down would net an additional 6-7 “Top 75” prospects over the next couple years, allowing Poles to go true BPA and just stack talent everywhere.

Math/cap wise, it’s just impossible to pay for depth with free agents - the depth you can afford generally sucks. Truly deep teams are deep because they have young players pushing vets for playing time.
More picks is generally a good idea. Though I think you are gonna add some depth pieces in this years draft too (Christian Jones as OT for example?) - And depending on position - Good depth doesn't have to suck and/or be super expensive - I can see Justin Jones being brought back at a very reasonable price for example.

It's tougher at some positions than others - though I like our Backup QB

I'ts also more useful to have depth at some (you can cycle through DL for example whereas OL - it's a bit all or nothing in terms of snaps - though you obviously want to have quality depth regardless)

I think we are already pretty close to this though in terms of stacking talent.

Trading down from 1 really - for 2024 only adds 1 pick (usually) - it's a nice 2nd mind you, but only one for 2024. It's 2025 and 2026 where you really get the benefit (and it could be a helluva benefit - Don't get me wrong)

But in 2025(*). We will already have a 1st and Two 2nds - Maybe an extra 3rd too depending on what the Fields package ultimately is.
2025 and 2026 is 100% where my head is when I think of all this. I want the Ravens franchise, or one of the few franchises that is in the hunt every single year. And I see the trade down as the most certain path to achieve it. I'm willing to give up the "big swing" for the increased certainty that a trade down would bring, and then plug in a new QB in 2025 if needed. At that point, I believe we could put nearly anyone out there and still be a playoff team, and maybe you strike gold with some unsuspecting prospect like SF did with Purdy.
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You can trade down and still move on from Fields. If Washington massively overpays for the #1, you have to do it regardless of how valuable Williams might be. You take the haul and take Maye or Daniels (I prefer Maye, but think Daniles is more ready to play right now).

Then if Fields does manage to net you a 1st or a 2nd and a 3rd, you have those picks to continue to build the team.


Als0, unrelated, it's nice to see you two having some actual discussions.
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Maye doesn’t convince me at all.
Is he really better than Fields?
Not convinced I’m afraid.

I can see why people project Williams to be better, O don’t see it with Maye.
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dplank wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:24 am I’m just waiting for that lightbulb to come on guys, the logic here is brutally bad. Like, apply the statement you just made to: Josh Allen and MVP Lamar Jackson and Justin Herbert and Joe Burrow.

Are they not great QBs? How come your logic doesn’t apply to them?
I'm missing your point, here? What are you trying to get at?
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:09 am Maye doesn’t convince me at all.
Is he really better than Fields?
Not convinced I’m afraid.

I can see why people project Williams to be better, O don’t see it with Maye.
I dunno man, he's a really really good prospect. It's easy to see why he gets compared to guys like Carson Palmer and Josh Allen.
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wab wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:16 am
Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:09 am Maye doesn’t convince me at all.
Is he really better than Fields?
Not convinced I’m afraid.

I can see why people project Williams to be better, O don’t see it with Maye.
I dunno man, he's a really really good prospect. It's easy to see why he gets compared to guys like Carson Palmer and Josh Allen.
Must be me then, I think he needs a lot of work.
Bit of a step back for the team next season
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these pre-draft threads are always entertaining with opinions all over the place .... which is a good thing to keep the discussion/conversation going

so what if Caleb Williams turns into the next Ryan Leaf rather than the god like entity some are referring to him as? not saying he will, but it seems many are not considering that as a possibility ... and since no one knows how or if college players (particularly QB's) will be able to translate their skills to the NFL, it is foolish to think anyone knows doe sure ... I've watched him play, and he is pretty good ... but many others like him have found NFL level of play to be out of their reach ... so I guess we'll see

I am firmly in the "Keep JF1" camp and want the Bears to dangle that #1 pick as a carrot they can reap much more needed help from
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wab wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:58 am
Als0, unrelated, it's nice to see you two having some actual discussions.
Very very nice to see, honestly.
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HurricaneBear wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:36 am
wab wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:58 am
Als0, unrelated, it's nice to see you two having some actual discussions.
Very very nice to see, honestly.
100%. I admire both posters and they both bring up good points. Beef on an online message board sucks, especially when it involves smart people who aren't just deliberately being douchebags.
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The Kaiser wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:53 am Has there been any discussion in this "Build around Caleb" thread about possibly drafting Brock Bowers at #9?

Three factors:
1. Great pass catching TEs can make such a difference with young QBs like Mahomes and Purdy.
2. Shane Waldron likes his 2 TE sets.
3. Bowers is a real difference maker. If somehow the top 3 WRs are gone by 9, I'd be ok with taking Bowers there as another weapon on O.
I think TMP and I have discussed Bowers in the keep Fields scenarios. I would 100% be on board for drafting Bowers in the draft Caleb scenario.

If the MHJ trade up dream falls thru, Bowers would be a great consolation prize at 9. TE is on my wish list this off-season and I absolutely think you pair Caleb with a weapon to grow with with that second first rounder.
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Bowers comes up from time to time.

As much as I like 2TE sets (esp for a team that is weak at WR), I don't think this makes sense at all.

You can't go 12 90% of the time and planning to sit Kmet or a top 10 pick 40% of the time is not a good plan.
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Moriarty wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:00 pm Bowers comes up from time to time.

As much as I like 2TE sets (esp for a team that is weak at WR), I don't think this makes sense at all.

You can't go 12 90% of the time and planning to sit Kmet or a top 10 pick 40% of the time is not a good plan.
I will have to agree to disagree with you on this one. Surrounding the QB with as many weapons as possible is always the best plan, in my opinion.(with that said I would prefer a WR but I'd be on board for Bowers so we aren't totally on opposite pages here)
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Waldron likes 2 TEs I think
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:13 pm Waldron likes 2 TEs I think
He actually likes to use all three, and I would imagine he'd push for the Bears to bring Parkinson or Fant in. Fant might be too expensive though.
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I totally agree with TMP.

You can either build your team solid as hell or piss away that golden opportunity for your drama queen.

Not both.
There is a GM named Poles
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Heinz D. wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:13 am
dplank wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:24 am I’m just waiting for that lightbulb to come on guys, the logic here is brutally bad. Like, apply the statement you just made to: Josh Allen and MVP Lamar Jackson and Justin Herbert and Joe Burrow.

Are they not great QBs? How come your logic doesn’t apply to them?
I'm missing your point, here? What are you trying to get at?
This comment, which is a common refrain from the CW stans...
The Super Bowl yesterday showed again how important it can be to have a QB who turns shit into gold.
I'm wondering why this comment only seems to apply to Patrick Mahomes and not any other great QB who elevates his team, like Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson, who lost to Patrick Mahomes. Are they not great Top 5 QB's who elevate their teams also?

And as an immediate follow up - if the QB does little more than toss screen after screen to march down the field on the two most important drives of the game, how is he turning shit into gold? Isn't it kinda the opposite, the team actually carries the QB in those instances? People just put EVERYTHING on the QB, it's beyond reductive.
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Cross-posting here because it definitely would be a part of Build Around Caleb.

Justin and 75 for 20?

Take Caleb, Rome, and Jackson Powers-Johnson.

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dplank wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:39 pm I'm wondering why this comment only seems to apply to Patrick Mahomes and not any other great QB who elevates his team, like Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson, who lost to Patrick Mahomes. Are they not great Top 5 QB's who elevate their teams also?
Oh, okay. I see what you're getting at now. The answer is sure they are--but only one team gets to win the Super Bowl.
dplank wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:39 pm And as an immediate follow up - if the QB does little more than toss screen after screen to march down the field on the two most important drives of the game, how is he turning shit into gold? Isn't it kinda the opposite, the team actually carries the QB in those instances? People just put EVERYTHING on the QB, it's beyond reductive.
People always say QB is the most important position in professional sports, and if that isn't true, it's still mighty close to being so.

You've sort of lost me again, though. Mahomes is throwing lots of screen passess? I'm not sure where you're coming from. And, the improvisational abilities of upper echelon quarterbacks have been thrilling fans ever since football coaches realized the forward pass was a good idea--wouldn't you say?
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Yea I was referring to last nights game specifically. I’m not on board with acting like Mahomes greatness won them that game last night - far from it. He played fine, but that wasn’t one of those games that have earned him the reputation he has. The rest of the team carried the day, defense, OL (the key to the screen game), and Andy Reid’s play calling mastery were all more impactful to last nights outcome.
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dplank wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:36 pm Yea I was referring to last nights game specifically. I’m not on board with acting like Mahomes greatness won them that game last night - far from it. He played fine, but that wasn’t one of those games that have earned him the reputation he has. The rest of the team carried the day, defense, OL (the key to the screen game), and Andy Reid’s play calling mastery were all more impactful to last nights outcome.
Yeah...I'm not going to claim that you don't have a point, there. But I'm not sure the Chiefs actually make it to the Super Bowl without Mahomes.

And none of what either one of us has said gives any weight to anything resembling a compelling argument for the Bears to keep Fields.
Last edited by Heinz D. on Tue Feb 13, 2024 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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