Bears trade 5th rd pick to Bills for OL Ryan Bates

[dplank]

I think this trade was an assurance deal. It's already an upgrade from Lucas Patrick and immediately provides a safety net for the interior OL and a possible competitor for the C starting job. I don't think Poles is done with the offensive line by a country mile, though. This was him getting a guy he really coveted.

This.

And reliable depth is very important on the OL — we saw that plenty during the 2023 season.

I believe in the "weakest link" concept of gauging an OL, meaning you're only as good as your worst player. Maybe not 100% literally, but I believe there's a strong correlation. Bates raises our performance floor from Patrick/Whitehair/Carter at both C and swing G. And he's cheap. It's highly unlikely a 5th rounder would have the same effect. Even if he's just the primary backup C/G, it's worth the money and the pick IMO. This is what valuing your OL looks like.

[Rusty Trombagent]

I'm usually a trade down advocate - but the Bears are a point where they need to start adding Blue Chips difference makers in the draft. I'd rather use FA to fill some depth and some obvious critical holes (H Back, swing tackle, free safety, etc.).

100% agree.

[RichH55]

This.

And reliable depth is very important on the OL — we saw that plenty during the 2023 season.

I believe in the "weakest link" concept of gauging an OL, meaning you're only as good as your worst player. Maybe not 100% literally, but I believe there's a strong correlation. Bates raises our performance floor from Patrick/Whitehair/Carter at both C and swing G. And he's cheap. It's highly unlikely a 5th rounder would have the same effect. Even if he's just the primary backup C/G, it's worth the money and the pick IMO. This is what valuing your OL looks like.

Very fair post

I will say this - If Poles still had the 6th instead of the Feeney trade (which I was absolutely Fine with at the time and even in hindsight). Would Buffalo have taken the early 6th on Bates?

[RichH55]

That's fair criticism. I do think Feeney was a good calculated risk, but it turns out he wasn't, so with hindsight it wasn't a good trade.

Honestly, I’d bring Feeney back as depth.

Me as well

[LacertineForest]

This.

And reliable depth is very important on the OL — we saw that plenty during the 2023 season.

I believe in the "weakest link" concept of gauging an OL, meaning you're only as good as your worst player. Maybe not 100% literally, but I believe there's a strong correlation. Bates raises our performance floor from Patrick/Whitehair/Carter at both C and swing G. And he's cheap. It's highly unlikely a 5th rounder would have the same effect. Even if he's just the primary backup C/G, it's worth the money and the pick IMO. This is what valuing your OL looks like.

Yeah, I agree with you here, 100%. We saw Poles turn something like 3 day 3 picks into 8 in 2022. I have no doubt he can do the same here. The question is if/how he'll manage to get more day 2 picks.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

This is the head scratchiest move I've seen yet from Poles. Free agency is coming up in a few days where he could sign an experienced starting center for just $$$ and there are several that will be available. Instead, he drops a draft pick when he's already short on them. This from Mr. Build-thru-the-draft. And it's not like he's making rookie contract $$$ although what he's making isn't crazy. This sounds so Lucas Patrick.

I agree that this move points to acquiring more picks by trade down and/or a Fields trade.

I think this trade was an assurance deal. It's already an upgrade from Lucas Patrick and immediately provides a safety net for the interior OL and a possible competitor for the C starting job. I don't think Poles is done with the offensive line by a country mile, though. This was him getting a guy he really coveted.

This. We currently have no starting C and two guards who missed time last season. Bates can step in to play C if the Bears are unable to sign a FA starter - or if the Bears are able to upgrade, he can backup the interior OL. Given how bad the back half of the draft is according to some draft analysts - maybe Poles doesn't see a lot of worth in those picks.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I think he’ll get a 5th and a second for Fields.

[Kylo Bearen]

[Rusty Trombagent]

I'm not sure what to make of this Bates thing.

Bates is listed on the Bills depth chart at C.
Except he's barely played any C his whole life. He was mostly a LT in college with 0 C. And in Buffalo he's played mostly G, with a little C.

I'm kind of surprised how much people love this move, i feel like a constant complaint around here has been people want a guy who has years of experience at center, particularly at the college level.

This thread might be pretty funny to revisit in a year.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Bates raises our performance floor from Patrick/Whitehair/Carter at both C and swing G.

We hope Bates raises the performance floor from Patrick/Whitehair/Carter at both C and swing G and Poles clearly thinks he will, but full-time starters on the OL typically log over a thousand snaps a season and Bates has 1436 in 5 seasons.

That's more than a thousand less than Patrick had when the Bears signed him and Patrick had started 13 games the year before too whereas Bates didn't start any and barely played.

We can't be certain that Bates will prove to be an upgrade.

[Noots]

I watched about half of the YouTube a few posts above that @Kylo Bearen posted. I really like the guy's movement skills.
There is no comparison to Lucas Patrick. He's a much better football player. His short area quickness and ability to make an impact both when he's covered and uncovered look really good. Even the stuff that the reviewer picked on wasn't really bad. His ability to take good angles and get his helmet between the defender and where the ball is going is consistently good, and not something I've seen a lot of on our squad of late.

We're going to need depth for both OGs and have no guarantees that if we opt to draft a C, that it will be a strike. Maybe they hope everyone's favorite Van Pran falls to them and they pull the trigger but he doesn't pan out or gets hurt. Having a guy with that G-C-G flexibility and even some OT in a pinch is a huge value. I've no qualms about this pick. I feel I know more about him than I did about Feeney and Patrick when they made those moves because many of us were excited about him when they made the offer originally.

[Yogi da Bear]

I watched about half of the YouTube a few posts above that @Kylo Bearen posted. I really like the guy's movement skills.
There is no comparison to Lucas Patrick. He's a much better football player. His short area quickness and ability to make an impact both when he's covered and uncovered look really good. Even the stuff that the reviewer picked on wasn't really bad. His ability to take good angles and get his helmet between the defender and where the ball is going is consistently good, and not something I've seen a lot of on our squad of late.

We're going to need depth for both OGs and have no guarantees that if we opt to draft a C, that it will be a strike. Maybe they hope everyone's favorite Van Pran falls to them and they pull the trigger but he doesn't pan out or gets hurt. Having a guy with that G-C-G flexibility and even some OT in a pinch is a huge value. I've no qualms about this pick. I feel I know more about him than I did about Feeney and Patrick when they made those moves because many of us were excited about him when they made the offer originally.

It's not only his movement skills, but he seems to hold up much better at the point of attack than Patrick did, who sometimes could get steamrolled.

[Noots]

It's not only his movement skills, but he seems to hold up much better at the point of attack than Patrick did, who sometimes could get steamrolled.

Exactly and Amen--sorry I wasn't more explicit about that, it was what I meant about his play when he's covered.

[Atkins&Rebel]

I simply see this as Poles knowing the positions he’s targeting with his early picks and knowing that he couldn’t get as quality of an IOL as Bates in the 5th based on his own draft projections.

And even if they don’t get the guy they want in the draft, they can still get starters in FA after the draft that Waldron can work with since he doesn’t mind running the ball.

[The Cooler King]

I think it's kind of a lot to give up if he's not a starter. Sure the 5th isn't a huge piece of draft capital, but there's probably plenty of comparable swing interior FA who will be had for just money.

The question then is if he's good enough to start. Poles clearly likes him. If he's right and he's a + starter at Center for 2 years, it's a good deal.

[thunderspirit]

I think it's kind of a lot to give up if he's not a starter. Sure the 5th isn't a huge piece of draft capital, but there's probably plenty of comparable swing interior FA who will be had for just money.

The question then is if he's good enough to start. Poles clearly likes him. If he's right and he's a + starter at Center for 2 years, it's a good deal.

Or at G. Either one.

To @The Cooler King's point, I don't think a 5th round pick is the same as giving up just cap space for a player; but I also don't think it's much more than "we like this guy and think he can improve our team." Like one would hope a guy drafted in the 5th round would be.

I can't disagree with @HisRoyalSweetness that we don't know Bates is an upgrade. It's an educated guess. Like signing guys as free agents and drafting players is.

[Mikefive]

I simply see this as Poles knowing the positions he’s targeting with his early picks and knowing that he couldn’t get as quality of an IOL as Bates in the 5th based on his own draft projections.

If that's the logic, then Poles should trade every day 3 draft pick for more sure thing players then, right?

[Mikefive]

If he's right and he's a + starter at Center for 2 years, it's a good deal.

No doubt about it. How it plays out in real games trumps anything we say in March. Same with draft pick praise and criticism for that matter.

Remember how we thought Getsy bringing his guy Patrick was a good move at the time it was made?

[BearsFanInMN]

Honestly, I’d bring Feeney back as depth.

Me as well

Dear god if Feeney is back it means we really screwed up fixing Center again by virtually ignoring it. I'd bring back Mustipher any day over Feeney.

[LacertineForest]

I simply see this as Poles knowing the positions he’s targeting with his early picks and knowing that he couldn’t get as quality of an IOL as Bates in the 5th based on his own draft projections.

If that's the logic, then Poles should trade every day 3 draft pick for more sure thing players then, right?

Obviously, that wouldn't be sustainable. You pay a R5 pick a lot less than a guy like Bates. But I think it's a reasonable argument that if you see a guy you like and can get good value for him, then by all means make that trade.

[Atkins&Rebel]

I simply see this as Poles knowing the positions he’s targeting with his early picks and knowing that he couldn’t get as quality of an IOL as Bates in the 5th based on his own draft projections.

If that's the logic, then Poles should trade every day 3 draft pick for more sure thing players then, right?

Every draft is different

Available talent on cap strapped teams is different every year

Every free agent class is different

Despite my opinion, poles believes that Bates is a better IOL than any prospect he can get in the 5th round this year. And if he does start, that’s a pretty good discount from what starting IOL are going to be asking for in FA this year with a big increase to the cap league wide.

[Bearfacts]

Why? (Sincerely asking)

Hard to build infrastructure with a four player draft class.

Edit: five players, but still

Given what's been said about the lack of depth in this draft the 6th and 7th round picks were somewhat meaningless anyway and Bates is likely to be far better for us than anyone we might have drafted in round 5. What Poles needs is more picks on day two where he has far more options for how to get them.

This is where I keep coming back to that 1st overall pick. True he could trade #9 but if we go straight up draft value chart in order to get a 2nd round pick in the top half of the 2nd he'd need to trade back to #18. That's a pretty large drop off from the players who should be available at #9. If he trades JF he might get his 2nd round pick but that's not assured right now either.

The only move that assures him of a top pick in round 2 is trading the 1st overall pick and possibly a 2nd time to pick up yet another 2024 2nd. I hesitate to call it a true dilemma but admittedly it is a tough call to make for any GM especially one who professes a desire to build via the draft. Since I don't see a way of doing both Poles has a tough decision to make.

[Bearfacts]

I'm not sure what to make of this Bates thing.

Bates is listed on the Bills depth chart at C.
Except he's barely played any C his whole life. He was mostly a LT in college with 0 C. And in Buffalo he's played mostly G, with a little C.

I'm kind of surprised how much people love this move, i feel like a constant complaint around here has been people want a guy who has years of experience at center, particularly at the college level.

This thread might be pretty funny to revisit in a year.

I thing that's probably true but to get one of the best ones in this draft we'll need a 2nd round pick or picks we don't currently have. I also think that while Bates can play OC he was brought in primarily as a first line experienced backup all across the interior. Neither of our OGs have played a 17 game season yet so I expect to see Bates playing OG not starting at OC.

[Bearfacts]

If that's the logic, then Poles should trade every day 3 draft pick for more sure thing players then, right?

Every draft is different

Available talent on cap strapped teams is different every year

Every free agent class is different

Despite my opinion, poles believes that Bates is a better IOL than any prospect he can get in the 5th round this year. And if he does start, that’s a pretty good discount from what starting IOL are going to be asking for in FA this year with a big increase to the cap league wide.

I think this is a good and proper take on Bates. Just because he wasn't starting in Buffalo doesn't mean he isn't capable of starting if Jenkins and Davis can't stay healthy. Given the offer we made to him two years ago I think it's obvious Poles saw him as having the ability to start and Buffalo matched it even though he's never been more than a reserve there. If Buffalo valued him that highly maybe we should as well.

[HurricaneBear]

I'm not sure what to make of this Bates thing.

Bates is listed on the Bills depth chart at C.
Except he's barely played any C his whole life. He was mostly a LT in college with 0 C. And in Buffalo he's played mostly G, with a little C.

I'm kind of surprised how much people love this move, i feel like a constant complaint around here has been people want a guy who has years of experience at center, particularly at the college level.

This thread might be pretty funny to revisit in a year.

I've been pounding the table for 2 years and I don't give a shit if that player has 0 snaps previously at center. I just care that he can play football.

[dplank]

I'm kind of surprised how much people love this move, i feel like a constant complaint around here has been people want a guy who has years of experience at center, particularly at the college level.

This thread might be pretty funny to revisit in a year.

I've been pounding the table for 2 years and I don't give a shit if that player has 0 snaps previously at center. I just care that he can play football.

Bates is replacing Patrick. Same cost, better player, and same idea of a C/G guy with experience at a low price (4M). We aren’t done at C, Bates may not even start. He is a better player than Patrick, and he isn’t as ouchy, so this upgrades our OL. Depth matters, OL guys get hurt every year. And if we draft a C, it would be great to be able to ease them in.

The only reason to ding this move is if it’s all Poles does. We don’t know that yet, so best to wait and see how his full plan takes shape.

[Bearfacts]

I've been pounding the table for 2 years and I don't give a shit if that player has 0 snaps previously at center. I just care that he can play football.

Bates is replacing Patrick. Same cost, better player, and same idea of a C/G guy with experience at a low price (4M). We aren’t done at C, Bates may not even start. He is a better player than Patrick, and he isn’t as ouchy, so this upgrades our OL. Depth matters, OL guys get hurt every year. And if we draft a C, it would be great to be able to ease them in.

The only reason to ding this move is if it’s all Poles does. We don’t know that yet, so best to wait and see how his full plan takes shape.

Yup, only I'd add Feeney to this as well. Patrick was not coming back and Poles could've made a similar offer to Feeney as he's getting Bates for sans having to give up a 5th round pick. Obviously he feels Bates is that much better that he was willing to do what he did. We badly needed versatile interior OL depth for a price Poles was willing to pay. He wanted Bates two years ago and finally got him under the same terms he offered him in 2022.

There are vet FA OCs available at various price points. Either Poles signs one or he has plans to draft one although that may be tough to pull off if he can't manage to add 2nd round picks or another 3rd round pick. All I see is Poles doing what he always does which is upgrading his roster as he goes looking for bargains. He has control of him at a very reasonable cap cost for two years, he's experienced and can play either OG spot, he's only 27 years old and in his prime playing years, and he can be extended if he proves to be a starting caliber guy. In the last two years neither Davis or Jenkins have played a full season. We needed Bates.

I'm not fretting giving up a 5th for him because he's better than anyone we could typically draft that deep into day three anyway.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Posted in another thread - but the back half of the draft is trash.

[Mikefive]

If indeed the day 3 talent is weak (which I'm not smart enough to know), then this deal makes a lot more sense.

[RichH55]

If indeed the day 3 talent is weak (which I'm not smart enough to know), then this deal makes a lot more sense.

It's also that we have gotten better and deeper under Poles too.

Starters QB, HB, #1 WR, both OT, both Guard, #1TE, DT (Depending on your view of Dexter),#1 DE

Backups DT?, QB, All LBs, maybe 4th CB, DE (Depth is there - need more of a Legit #2)

And you'll have Pick #9, 3rd, 2 4ths, and whatever you get For Fields. An extra 2nd next year (perhaps a really good 2nd at that)

And you have a really good amount of Cap Room too so we are probably adding 1-2 higher grade guys here (pushing depth in other spots) and maybe another Vet or two in the 2nd Wave

And come NEXT offseason - You are making FA decisions on like Herbert and Jenkins (and maybe you want to cut Nate Davis then?). But Guards grow on Trees



There is absolutely an argument that we need to upgrade some of the Top End Talent - and maybe adding Blue Chippers is the priority - Makes sense. It is also a discussion that doesn't really have anything to do with a 5th Round Pick