Caleb Williams News and Rumor thread

[RichH55]

If Poles is absolutely sold that Williams is the guy, I agree that he will take him at 1. But if there is even an inkling of doubt and Washington is up to giving a haul, it has to be considered. At least I would hope so.

Considered is the operative word here and it should be. Landing at #2 and also considering another QB like Jayden Daniels isn't a ridiculous idea at all. If I'm Poles and I can get a 2025 #1 and at least one 2024 #2 and another pick or maybe both #2's and still get a kid who may be the 2nd best QB in this draft if he didn't consider it he shouldn't be an NFL GM.

I have a question. Is it paramount we move on from JF or only paramount as long as we draft CW and no one else regardless of whatever offers we might get. Chime in guys. I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.

It doesn't have to be CW (though it probably is). Hopefully they have set this team up well enough where even a trade down in the top 3 won't be a pick we are seeing anytime soon (hopefully not as high as 9 again)

[TheWorldBreaker]

Yet he just happens to have more leverage than any QB prospect in recent history, and he knows it.

Should that not be of at least some concern in Chicago. Just askin'?

Why do you think an exceptionally talented quarterback that is also displaying signs of being very intelligent a concern?

Just asking?

[dplank]

Should that not be of at least some concern in Chicago. Just askin'?

Why do you think an exceptionally talented quarterback that is also displaying signs of being very intelligent a concern?

Just asking?

Intelligent? No. Douchenozzle? Yes.

[TheWorldBreaker]

Why do you think an exceptionally talented quarterback that is also displaying signs of being very intelligent a concern?

Just asking?

Intelligent? No. Douchenozzle? Yes.

Why are you so threatened by Williams?

He’s a multimillionaire that lives in LA but is never pictured clubbing. Has been getting up at 430 in the morning to work on being a quarterback since he was in middle school.

He’s also a football nerd that had a 10 minute conversation with Chris Simms about the grip he uses on the football, the difference between the NFL ball and college ball, and how he’s studying the biomechanics of his footwork and throwing motion to see if there any tweaks he can make to improve.

Williams is a football obsessed psycho determined to be great.

Some people prefer nice guys just happy to be there I guess and that’s their prerogative but I don’t think being the former makes you a “douche nozzle.”

[HisRoyalSweetness]

If I'm Poles and I can get a 2025 #1 and at least one 2024 #2 and another pick or maybe both #2's and still get a kid who may be the 2nd best QB in this draft if he didn't consider it he shouldn't be an NFL GM.

If Williams is the best QB in the draft, the exceptional talent which "everyone" says he is, then would Poles give up a 2025 R1 and a pair of 2024 R2 to grab him if he didn't have the first overall pick? If he wouldn't then he shouldn't be an NFL GM.

Poles cannot settle for the 2nd best at the QB position if he concurs with the general consensus on Williams unless he gets a massive haul for doing so that is going to set the team up for the rest of the decade. (A 2025 R1 and two 2024 R2s wouldn't come close to being that.)

Are there any teams who would be willing to make such an offer? I may be proven wrong but I honestly don't think there are.

[Bearfacts]

If I'm Poles and I can get a 2025 #1 and at least one 2024 #2 and another pick or maybe both #2's and still get a kid who may be the 2nd best QB in this draft if he didn't consider it he shouldn't be an NFL GM.

If Williams is the best QB in the draft, the exceptional talent which "everyone" says he is, then would Poles give up a 2025 R1 and a pair of 2024 R2 to grab him if he didn't have the first overall pick? If he wouldn't then he shouldn't be an NFL GM.

Poles cannot settle for the 2nd best at the QB position if he concurs with the general consensus on Williams unless he gets a massive haul for doing so that is going to set the team up for the rest of the decade. (A 2025 R1 and two 2024 R2s wouldn't come close to being that.)

Are there any teams who would be willing to make such an offer? I may be proven wrong but I honestly don't think there are.

I really have no idea what Poles may be able to get for the pick or how much difference the Bears brain trust sees between CW and whomever they see as second best. In reality none of us do. And I can't think of any trade that would assure setting the team up for an entire decade any more than I can be assured that CW, JF or any other QB will be the franchise savior so many want.

All we know is mostly based on how we feel right now. Half of Bears fans believe JF has nowhere reached his ceiling and the other half believe he has and also believe CW is the messiah who can deliver us from the depths of the NFCN. All I can go on is that I've seen JF play as a 3 year NFL pro and feel I know far more about him now than I do CW whom I have not seen play as an NFL pro.

What I believe is this. CW is a very talented "prospect" and how any prospect may turn out will always be in the wind until they prove themselves as a pro. I would not trade a 1st and two 2nds to drafts him but I can't predict what Wash may do. Also, if I have the #1 overall pick and I believe CW is that difference maker at QB whom I need to create my championship I would surely take him.

So there's all of the hypotheticals I have to give. Reality comes when Poles makes his move. It's the only one that actually counts.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

A quick search reveals several quotes where he refers to immortality.

“Immortality comes from championships and things like that, and I haven’t reached one here in college yet,” Williams said. “We’ve got a special, special moment here this year to be able to go reach one.”

So - according to his own standard - he missed the boat on his collegiate Immortality. Maybe he'll do better as a pro but it seems like he carries a pack train of hubris as part of his persona.

I think Ryan Poles is not foolish enough to take this kid.

Hey now!

[Bearfacts]

Should that not be of at least some concern in Chicago. Just askin'?

Why do you think an exceptionally talented quarterback that is also displaying signs of being very intelligent a concern?

Just asking?

I'm not questioning his intelligence. I'm stating a concern about how he may see himself compared to every other player who'll be drafted or signed and thousands before him who have accepted the terms of the CBA not mulled over how they might challenge them not for all but only for themselves. How CW sees himself; is he a soon to be NFL QB or simply a brand for whom football is his launching point for example? So your question makes no sense because it has nothing to do with my concerns. It's a strawman.

Somehow you seem to have convinced yourself I dislike CW as much as you do JF. That's not the case. I have my concerns about both and have stated them before. Those I have about JF go back a couple of years. What I see in CW goes beyond only his skills on the field which I feel also require investigating just as thoroughly. I've also said I trust Poles and Co. will do that and I trust them.

But when posters like yourself and others seem so all fired certain there is only one way to see things.....only one way this could possibly work and make any sense, I simply point out other possibilities I see that may also be under consideration and not just by me. I'm just a guy who roots for his team. The guys who count are getting top dollar to run my team and I'm hoping they at least see some of those same concerns and options is all because it's their job to think like that. Think right we win. Think wrong we don't.

[The Marshall Plan]

Then he quotes me after I specifically state that I put him on Ignore.

Rich still does that.

To be fair TMP, every now and then you post something worth replying to and on those rare occasions even Rich can't contain himself.

I always thought you guys archived my posts for the inevitable book deal so you can say "I was there when...." as it relates to my genius level insights.

[Bearfacts]

True but Mac's personality was a dead balls on fit for Chicago. I'm not as certain of that with CW. If he shows signs of being even in the least bit "elitist" as in "I'm the best that ever was" what then? I'm on one side excited about the possibilities of finally having the best QB in the NFCN who can look at the Cheeseheads and say "I own you" and the other side concerned about a part that tells me this kid is eventually gonna become a huge pain in the ass to keep happy and cost us in the long run like Rodgers did in GB.

Wait. Are suggesting Williams having a run like the one Rodgers had for the Packers would be…bad?

Here again we have someone who wants to alter the script and make up his own version of what I posted and/or self interpret my meaning. My point was not about Rodgers W/L record in the NFCN but about just about everything else that eventually came along with him. His "story" includes more than just that. It's like that old joke about the "Kloppman Diamond" his wife wears that comes with a curse. When asked about the nature of the curse his wife responds; it's Mr. Kloppman.

Rodgers had a nice run. How many SB did he win? Same number as Mac??? For how many years has Rodgers prima dona attitude and selfishness hurt GB as much or more than it's helped them? I spent quite a few years of my life living in GB and I have a whole lot of friends there still who are staunch Packer fans. It's been a very long time since they felt the kind of love and respect for Aaron Rodgers they once did. Many were done with him long ago once he proved he could no longer win the big games.

My concerns, and right now that's what I'm voicing, are what CW career as a Bears QB may look like and whether or not it will be a long and prosperous one for the Bears. I care about that a whole lot more than whether or not it's a supremely prosperous one for CW and I think it's OK to feel that way. While I may also have some concerns about his style of play I figure that what good coaching is for. It's the other stuff that makes me wonder if he's the right guy for the Bears. Not any other NFL team I don't actually care about.

[HurricaneBear]

Intelligent? No. Douchenozzle? Yes.

Why are you so threatened by Williams?

He’s a multimillionaire that lives in LA but is never pictured clubbing. Has been getting up at 430 in the morning to work on being a quarterback since he was in middle school.

He’s also a football nerd that had a 10 minute conversation with Chris Simms about the grip he uses on the football, the difference between the NFL ball and college ball, and how he’s studying the biomechanics of his footwork and throwing motion to see if there any tweaks he can make to improve.

Williams is a football obsessed psycho determined to be great.

Some people prefer nice guys just happy to be there I guess and that’s their prerogative but I don’t think being the former makes you a “douche nozzle.”

Do you happen to have any links on hand? I would love to read about that. Those are the qualities you want in a QB. I'm far too lazy to look it up myself.

I also wouldn't mind if he's a douchenozzle and also has that drive to be the greatest. Most of the greats are douches. Would be kinda nice to have a guy come out and trash talk while backing it up

[LacertineForest]

Wait. Are suggesting Williams having a run like the one Rodgers had for the Packers would be…bad?

Here again we have someone who wants to alter the script and make up his own version of what I posted and/or self interpret my meaning. My point was not about Rodgers W/L record in the NFCN but about just about everything else that eventually came along with him. His "story" includes more than just that. It's like that old joke about the "Kloppman Diamond" his wife wears that comes with a curse. When asked about the nature of the curse his wife responds; it's Mr. Kloppman.

Rodgers had a nice run. How many SB did he win? Same number as Mac??? For how many years has Rodgers prima dona attitude and selfishness hurt GB as much or more than it's helped them? I spent quite a few years of my life living in GB and I have a whole lot of friends there still who are staunch Packer fans. It's been a very long time since they felt the kind of love and respect for Aaron Rodgers they once did. Many were done with him long ago once he proved he could no longer win the big games.

My concerns, and right now that's what I'm voicing, are what CW career as a Bears QB may look like and whether or not it will be a long and prosperous one for the Bears. I care about that a whole lot more than whether or not it's a supremely prosperous one for CW and I think it's OK to feel that way. While I may also have some concerns about his style of play I figure that what good coaching is for. It's the other stuff that makes me wonder if he's the right guy for the Bears. Not any other NFL team I don't actually care about.

Rodgers still won a super bowl. He still had them playing in big, meaningful games year in and year out. I would gladly take drama to experience a Super Bowl win that I can actually remember!

[The Cooler King]

Some spoiled Packers fan spoiled on their second consecutive HOF QB.

Buyer beware

[dplank]

Yea I can't go along here either, if we got an Aaron Rodgers player here that's clearly a good thing IMO.

[wab]

Wait. Are suggesting Williams having a run like the one Rodgers had for the Packers would be…bad?

Here again we have someone who wants to alter the script and make up his own version of what I posted and/or self interpret my meaning. My point was not about Rodgers W/L record in the NFCN but about just about everything else that eventually came along with him. His "story" includes more than just that. It's like that old joke about the "Kloppman Diamond" his wife wears that comes with a curse. When asked about the nature of the curse his wife responds; it's Mr. Kloppman.

Rodgers had a nice run. How many SB did he win? Same number as Mac??? For how many years has Rodgers prima dona attitude and selfishness hurt GB as much or more than it's helped them? I spent quite a few years of my life living in GB and I have a whole lot of friends there still who are staunch Packer fans. It's been a very long time since they felt the kind of love and respect for Aaron Rodgers they once did. Many were done with him long ago once he proved he could no longer win the big games.

My concerns, and right now that's what I'm voicing, are what CW career as a Bears QB may look like and whether or not it will be a long and prosperous one for the Bears. I care about that a whole lot more than whether or not it's a supremely prosperous one for CW and I think it's OK to feel that way. While I may also have some concerns about his style of play I figure that what good coaching is for. It's the other stuff that makes me wonder if he's the right guy for the Bears. Not any other NFL team I don't actually care about.

I'll ignore the condescension and just point out I was asking a clarifying question. Because you made it seem like it would be bad to have a QB win 150 games over an 18 year hall of fame run...just because of how it ended.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

What I believe is this. CW is a very talented "prospect" and how any prospect may turn out will always be in the wind until they prove themselves as a pro. I would not trade a 1st and two 2nds to drafts him

I don't pretend to know how good Williams is because I don't follow college football, but a couple of second round picks pus a future first round pick strikes me as remarkably good deal to be able to take any top QB prospect let alone one widely touted as being exceptional.

As stated previously, if Poles is going to pass on drafting Williams then I would want a much larger haul than that to justify doing so.

[G08]

He’s also a football nerd that had a 10 minute conversation with Chris Simms about the grip he uses on the football, the difference between the NFL ball and college ball, and how he’s studying the biomechanics of his footwork and throwing motion to see if there any tweaks he can make to improve.

Saw that interview and fucking loved it!

[G08]

Yea I can't go along here either, if we got an Aaron Rodgers player here that's clearly a good thing IMO.

He's the most talented QB I've ever seen play, I've said that for a long time even though it pained me as a die-hard Bears Fan.

If Caleb Williams is Aaron Rodgers 2.0, sign me the fuck up AND make sure you give him defenses like the Patriots gave Tom Brady.

[Bearfacts]

What I believe is this. CW is a very talented "prospect" and how any prospect may turn out will always be in the wind until they prove themselves as a pro. I would not trade a 1st and two 2nds to drafts him

I don't pretend to know how good Williams is because I don't follow college football, but a couple of second round picks pus a future first round pick strikes me as remarkably good deal to be able to take any top QB prospect let alone one widely touted as being exceptional.

As stated previously, if Poles is going to pass on drafting Williams then I would want a much larger haul than that to justify doing so.

I only said that I would not spend a 2025 1st and my two 2024 2nds to trade up for CW but that doesn't mean Wash may not if they have a wholly different motivation than I would have. A 2025 1st and two 2nds would be a base asking price from Wash. Poles may even want more if one of the 2nds is a 2025 pick.

Remember, it's only a 400 point trade by the Draft Value Chart so he's not gonna get the same haul he got last year for that but he might get close if Wash wants him badly enough. To get more he would need to drop out of the top five for a QB and quite possibly the two best WR. This is why I asked in another post whether or not now is the time to focus more on the top talent available and less so on more picks for lower tier guys.

Let's say he makes that trade with Wash for only their two 2024 2nds and a 2025 1st. With pick #2 he takes MHJr and with pick #9 he takes a top LT or the best DE on the board. He'd still have two high 2nd round picks one of which he might use on an OC and the other very possibly on a QB. He'd give JF another year under Waldron while evaluating a 2nd round QB pick. If he's unhappy with what he sees he has two 2025 1st and two 2025 2nds to go QB shopping with again and ammo to trade up if needed.

I'm only looking at other options Poles may have and brainstorming those in the event that he decided not to draft CW.

[Chifaninca]

I love the throwing out of picks that "will be offered" for him and thus we should take it drop down. Reminds of the good old days when Justin would get us at least a #2 and more.... oh wait... Mac Jones has reset the trade market...

Reality is that we don't know what is/will be offered. Poles has the knowledge of what is likely and I'll trust him. Also... this is same type of arguments that happened around QBs each year, so I try to stay silent and ignore the ebb and flow of emotional posts.

I did watch every snap of every Caleb game for USC (long time SC fan), attended home games over the past two years and I can tell you, he's easily the best QB and one of the toughest players they ever had at that or most positions. When he steps on the field, you can feel the difference in the atmosphere. Hate him now, you'll love him once he's a Bear. He's what you all beg for... A tough QB, who can lead his team to greatness, who has true QB skills, traits, personality and more... Guy is a good person on top of it, regardless of what a few like to report for clicks....

I am excited to see him as Bears QB, would be very disappointed if he was wearing a different uniform.

[Bearfacts]

Here again we have someone who wants to alter the script and make up his own version of what I posted and/or self interpret my meaning. My point was not about Rodgers W/L record in the NFCN but about just about everything else that eventually came along with him. His "story" includes more than just that. It's like that old joke about the "Kloppman Diamond" his wife wears that comes with a curse. When asked about the nature of the curse his wife responds; it's Mr. Kloppman.

Rodgers had a nice run. How many SB did he win? Same number as Mac??? For how many years has Rodgers prima dona attitude and selfishness hurt GB as much or more than it's helped them? I spent quite a few years of my life living in GB and I have a whole lot of friends there still who are staunch Packer fans. It's been a very long time since they felt the kind of love and respect for Aaron Rodgers they once did. Many were done with him long ago once he proved he could no longer win the big games.

My concerns, and right now that's what I'm voicing, are what CW career as a Bears QB may look like and whether or not it will be a long and prosperous one for the Bears. I care about that a whole lot more than whether or not it's a supremely prosperous one for CW and I think it's OK to feel that way. While I may also have some concerns about his style of play I figure that what good coaching is for. It's the other stuff that makes me wonder if he's the right guy for the Bears. Not any other NFL team I don't actually care about.

I'll ignore the condescension and just point out I was asking a clarifying question. Because you made it seem like it would be bad to have a QB win 150 games over an 18 year hall of fame run...just because of how it ended.

I wouldn't call it condescension at all. I simply and correctly pointed out that you chose to ignore the fundamental reasoning behind what I posted by twisting it to fit your own viewpoint not mine. If you were asking a legit question I'd call the condescension your post not mine. Projection doesn't only happen in movie theaters.

Your opinion of Rodgers notwithstanding he's been an arrogant ahole for far longer than just a few years and many Packer fans know it. You're right that they tolerated it because for awhile he won often enough for them to look the other way. But he also won in a typically weak NFCN then lost to much tougher teams in the playoffs.

Rodgers always wanted to be compared with Brady as a GOAT and be paid for but he never will be. Brady restructured his deals at times so the Pats could add the talent they needed to keep winning. Rodgers thought only of himself and used his leverage as a big frog in a very small pond to get what he knew he could get then complained about a lack of support.

I have no idea whether or not CW will eventually become like that or not but from what I see now I believe it's possible. That was the entire thrust of what I was posting about which had little to nothing to do with anyone's W/L record. If Poles wants to build around a guy who should lead us for a decade or more as Rodgers did GB I'd like to think we'll be able to keep him happy and in Chicago winning SB like Mahomes is doing in KC and Brady did in NE. All I'm asking is whether of not CW is that guy.

[Bearfacts]

Here again we have someone who wants to alter the script and make up his own version of what I posted and/or self interpret my meaning. My point was not about Rodgers W/L record in the NFCN but about just about everything else that eventually came along with him. His "story" includes more than just that. It's like that old joke about the "Kloppman Diamond" his wife wears that comes with a curse. When asked about the nature of the curse his wife responds; it's Mr. Kloppman.

Rodgers had a nice run. How many SB did he win? Same number as Mac??? For how many years has Rodgers prima dona attitude and selfishness hurt GB as much or more than it's helped them? I spent quite a few years of my life living in GB and I have a whole lot of friends there still who are staunch Packer fans. It's been a very long time since they felt the kind of love and respect for Aaron Rodgers they once did. Many were done with him long ago once he proved he could no longer win the big games.

My concerns, and right now that's what I'm voicing, are what CW career as a Bears QB may look like and whether or not it will be a long and prosperous one for the Bears. I care about that a whole lot more than whether or not it's a supremely prosperous one for CW and I think it's OK to feel that way. While I may also have some concerns about his style of play I figure that what good coaching is for. It's the other stuff that makes me wonder if he's the right guy for the Bears. Not any other NFL team I don't actually care about.

Rodgers still won a super bowl. He still had them playing in big, meaningful games year in and year out. I would gladly take drama to experience a Super Bowl win that I can actually remember!

Sure you would.....until the Bears lost a few of those big games and then like every other Bears fan who bleeds blue and orange you'd get frustrated and call for change. Isn't that what got Lovie fired and Jay Cutler booed? Lovie took us to a SB. Cutler came one game from taking us to one so beat up from playing in Mike Martz offense he finally broke before he could finish the job. It wasn't all the fault of either of them but they took the fall didn't they?

No disrespect but I've been a Bears fan from before a whole lot of members here were even born. It doesn't make me any more special but it may have made me far more patient in terms of getting back to what we once had with a team built by a GM or two who knew what the phuc they were doing. Poles is the first GM we've had since then who seems to be following a similar path of trying to build that same kind of long term success GB has stuck up our asses for the past 30 years or so.

[The Marshall Plan]

The only reason why Rodgers won one Super Bowl and not five is because the Packers never built around him.

Only one offensive skill player drafted in the first round once they drafted Rodgers. Never a WR or a RB.

That was Jordan Love.

If they had built around Rodgers the Packers would've been the NFC version of the Patriots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_G ... raft_picks

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I don't pretend to know how good Williams is because I don't follow college football, but a couple of second round picks pus a future first round pick strikes me as remarkably good deal to be able to take any top QB prospect let alone one widely touted as being exceptional.

As stated previously, if Poles is going to pass on drafting Williams then I would want a much larger haul than that to justify doing so.

I only said that I would not spend a 2025 1st and my two 2024 2nds to trade up for CW but that doesn't mean Wash may not if they have a wholly different motivation than I would have. A 2025 1st and two 2nds would be a base asking price from Wash. Poles may even want more if one of the 2nds is a 2025 pick.

Remember, it's only a 400 point trade by the Draft Value Chart so he's not gonna get the same haul he got last year for that but he might get close if Wash wants him badly enough. To get more he would need to drop out of the top five for a QB and quite possibly the two best WR. This is why I asked in another post whether or not now is the time to focus more on the top talent available and less so on more picks for lower tier guys.

Let's say he makes that trade with Wash for only their two 2024 2nds and a 2025 1st. With pick #2 he takes MHJr and with pick #9 he takes a top LT or the best DE on the board. He'd still have two high 2nd round picks one of which he might use on an OC and the other very possibly on a QB. He'd give JF another year under Waldron while evaluating a 2nd round QB pick. If he's unhappy with what he sees he has two 2025 1st and two 2025 2nds to go QB shopping with again and ammo to trade up if needed.

I'm only looking at other options Poles may have and brainstorming those in the event that he decided not to draft CW.

I just don't see how you can pass up a purportedly exceptional QB for anything other than a huge haul.

If the choice existed you wouldn't pass on Mahomes in exchange for say Josh Allen, a couple of 2024 R2s and a R1 next year would you?

Ultimately GMs do not pass on a QB prospect they believe in and accept a lesser option. It just doesn't happen. Draft Value Charts don't even come into play. If Poles believes Williams justifies the hype then he's not going to pass on him to draft another.

The only way he does pass on him is for a franchise-altering deal consisting of multiple R1 and R2 picks, with possibly another blue-chip player like Moore included, and rolling with Fields for at least another year.

With the way free agency's been going it's become a lot harder to imagine there's a team willing to make that kind of offer. It's simply proving to be a bad year for such a possibility with an apparently deep QB draft class coupled with a significant contingent of veteran free agents available to depress the market.

[RichH55]

The only reason why Rodgers won one Super Bowl and not five is because the Packers never built around him.

Only one offensive skill player drafted in the first round once they drafted Rodgers. Never a WR or a RB.

That was Jordan Love.

If they had built around Rodgers the Packers would've been the NFC version of the Patriots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_G ... raft_picks

This post is actually super accurate

[TheWorldBreaker]

Why are you so threatened by Williams?

He’s a multimillionaire that lives in LA but is never pictured clubbing. Has been getting up at 430 in the morning to work on being a quarterback since he was in middle school.

He’s also a football nerd that had a 10 minute conversation with Chris Simms about the grip he uses on the football, the difference between the NFL ball and college ball, and how he’s studying the biomechanics of his footwork and throwing motion to see if there any tweaks he can make to improve.

Williams is a football obsessed psycho determined to be great.

Some people prefer nice guys just happy to be there I guess and that’s their prerogative but I don’t think being the former makes you a “douche nozzle.”

Do you happen to have any links on hand? I would love to read about that. Those are the qualities you want in a QB. I'm far too lazy to look it up myself.

I also wouldn't mind if he's a douchenozzle and also has that drive to be the greatest. Most of the greats are douches. Would be kinda nice to have a guy come out and trash talk while backing it up

Teddy Greenstein wrote a book called Quarterback Dads that has a chapter on Carl and Caleb Williams that addresses this. He also mentioned it in an interview on CHGO but I can’t find the clip of it.

I haven’t watched this interview but it’s about Caleb and his dad, so it probably gets brought up there too:

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Then he quotes me after I specifically state that I put him on Ignore.

Rich still does that.

To be fair TMP, every now and then you post something worth replying to and on those rare occasions even Rich can't contain himself.

Just to prove my point because I know you won't see it otherwise @The Marshall Plan!

The only reason why Rodgers won one Super Bowl and not five is because the Packers never built around him.

Only one offensive skill player drafted in the first round once they drafted Rodgers. Never a WR or a RB.

That was Jordan Love.

If they had built around Rodgers the Packers would've been the NFC version of the Patriots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_G ... raft_picks

This post is actually super accurate

[The Marshall Plan]

To be fair TMP, every now and then you post something worth replying to and on those rare occasions even Rich can't contain himself.

Just to prove my point because I know you won't see it otherwise @The Marshall Plan!

This post is actually super accurate

He could say that mother-in-laws are proof of the devil and I'd still have him on Ignore.

[Bearfacts]

I only said that I would not spend a 2025 1st and my two 2024 2nds to trade up for CW but that doesn't mean Wash may not if they have a wholly different motivation than I would have. A 2025 1st and two 2nds would be a base asking price from Wash. Poles may even want more if one of the 2nds is a 2025 pick.

Remember, it's only a 400 point trade by the Draft Value Chart so he's not gonna get the same haul he got last year for that but he might get close if Wash wants him badly enough. To get more he would need to drop out of the top five for a QB and quite possibly the two best WR. This is why I asked in another post whether or not now is the time to focus more on the top talent available and less so on more picks for lower tier guys.

Let's say he makes that trade with Wash for only their two 2024 2nds and a 2025 1st. With pick #2 he takes MHJr and with pick #9 he takes a top LT or the best DE on the board. He'd still have two high 2nd round picks one of which he might use on an OC and the other very possibly on a QB. He'd give JF another year under Waldron while evaluating a 2nd round QB pick. If he's unhappy with what he sees he has two 2025 1st and two 2025 2nds to go QB shopping with again and ammo to trade up if needed.

I'm only looking at other options Poles may have and brainstorming those in the event that he decided not to draft CW.

I just don't see how you can pass up a purportedly exceptional QB for anything other than a huge haul.

If the choice existed you wouldn't pass on Mahomes in exchange for say Josh Allen, a couple of 2024 R2s and a R1 next year would you?

Ultimately GMs do not pass on a QB prospect they believe in and accept a lesser option. It just doesn't happen. Draft Value Charts don't even come into play. If Poles believes Williams justifies the hype then he's not going to pass on him to draft another.

The only way he does pass on him is for a franchise-altering deal consisting of multiple R1 and R2 picks, with possibly another blue-chip player like Moore included, and rolling with Fields for at least another year.

With the way free agency's been going it's become a lot harder to imagine there's a team willing to make that kind of offer. It's simply proving to be a bad year for such a possibility with an apparently deep QB draft class coupled with a significant contingent of veteran free agents available to depress the market.

Since I live in Northern CO and followed Josh Allen at WY I may have. But what I would do or have done is irrelevant. All that matters is what Poles decides to do. All the rest is just our own personal opinions. But I do agree with you that if Poles comes to the conclusion that CW does represent a significant upgrade from JF he will not pass on drafting him and should not pass on drafting him. But is he? Adam Mason has done some deep diving into JF that's worth watching. That's all I'll say on that.

IMHO, and that of many others, the best case scenario with CW is probably a set back for a period of time while he learns to play within Waldron's offense while acclimating to the speed of the NFL game. I think we can at least count on it taking half the 2024 season for that and maybe longer. Another concern if not addressed in FA is whether or not the offense has the OL stability and other players needed to ease CW's way. We won't know that for another few weeks. If not then won't Poles need more picks now?

I can't predict what another team may give up to draft CW. I just used the draft value chart and the opinions of those with enough experience to give an educated guess. So don't hold me to it. I simply started with a 2025 1st and two 2nds as a base level from which to start negotiations if another GM asked and I'm quite sure some have asked. Poles is not gonna go looking for them he's gonna let them come to him. It's GM poker so let someone else make the first bet. That's just being smart IMHO.

Your last paragraph ties into exactly what I've been trying to point out. Beyond CW there are other options as far as drafting a QB. It's not a one QB draft. Some believe as many as three could go in the top ten and another couple in round one. So with more picks Poles could still draft a different QB he could allow to sit behind JF for a year or with multiple 1st and 2nd round picks in 2025 draft a QB then as well. I'm not willing to eliminate all of the other options that so many others want to do. I'm not in a CW cult.

Let me wrap this up with another question. If so many in the media and Bears fans believe that no one is offering picks for JF then conversely if they also won't pay a huge premium to draft a kid who the media, and mostly the media mind you, is calling the greatest QB prospect in a decade. A generational prospect. The next Andrew Luck. Could it also be true that NFL coaches and GMs aren't quite as certain of all that hype as so many others believe in? You propose what you believe a trade should be worth but if no one is willing to pay it wouldn't that also indicate they have their own reservations about CW? Seems at least somewhat logical to me.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Poles is not gonna go looking for them he's gonna let them come to him. It's GM poker so let someone else make the first bet. That's just being smart IMHO.

Your last paragraph ties into exactly what I've been trying to point out. Beyond CW there are other options as far as drafting a QB. It's not a one QB draft. Some believe as many as three could go in the top ten and another couple in round one. So with more picks Poles could still draft a different QB he could allow to sit behind JF for a year or with multiple 1st and 2nd round picks in 2025 draft a QB then as well. I'm not willing to eliminate all of the other options that so many others want to do. I'm not in a CW cult.

Let me wrap this up with another question. If so many in the media and Bears fans believe that no one is offering picks for JF then conversely if they also won't pay a huge premium to draft a kid who the media, and mostly the media mind you, is calling the greatest QB prospect in a decade. A generational prospect. The next Andrew Luck. Could it also be true that NFL coaches and GMs aren't quite as certain of all that hype as so many others believe in? You propose what you believe a trade should be worth but if no one is willing to pay it wouldn't that also indicate they have their own reservations about CW? Seems at least somewhat logical to me.

Williams is being named because he's the guy being touted as the finest QB prospect in a decade or more (and this thread is about him). You could substitute another QB into the debate instead but the point about Poles taking "his guy" with that #1 pick is the same. He cannot risk losing him to another team by trading down even one spot. He cannot assume another team would take a different QB.

To justify passing on his preferred QB he would have to be offered a trade deal that is so good it sets the team up with multiple years of high draft picks. You don't just turn down the guy you believe is the best QB for a couple of extra picks.

As for what offers Poles may have received for the #1 pick, we're simply not party to that information. We don't know what teams might be willing to pay.

The situation each team is in will be a big factor in what they might be willing to offer. To match what I believe Poles would need to justify trading that pick would mean giving away their future for the next few years which most teams will probably be unwilling to do. Acquiring a potentially elite QB is certainly something all teams without one would like to do, but if they already have a dearth of talent on their roster then trading away high draft capital for the next few years is unlikely to be worth the trade off. There have been too many examples of big trade ups in recent years that simply haven't panned out. It's a huge risk and one I doubt many GMs would even consider although ultimately it only takes one.

That's why I doubt the pick will be traded.