Some NFL owners discussed a CAP for QB's

For all things Chicago Bears

Moderator: wab

User avatar
The Marshall Plan
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9036
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:47 am
Location: Parts Unknown
Has thanked: 1093 times
Been thanked: 1505 times

HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 8:01 pm
Moriarty wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:06 pm What I think might work better is raising minimum NFL salaries significantly, leaving less for the stars.
Maybe even something much more elaborate like "besides QB, you must have 3 20M+ salaries 3 15M+ , 5 10M+, 15 5M+" or something like that (just blindly throwing out numbers, without doing the math), forcing teams to have a middle class.
Yep, I agree with this. Much simpler and likely to be popular among a lot of players. It doesn't even have to be a massive raise because of the number of players involved. As important as a QB is paying them more than 50 times as much as a veteran on a minimum contract is pretty obscene.

As for the idea of a QB cap %, if you're going to go down that route why not just a player cap %? You don't have to say it's QB specific, but in practice that's obviously what it will be.
Only 41 players earned that minimum salary in 2021 so this isn't really the social justice cause you think it is.

https://fanbuzz.com/nfl/nfl-minimum-sal ... 1%20season.
Image
User avatar
Moriarty
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7201
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:22 pm
Has thanked: 435 times
Been thanked: 826 times

RichH55 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 9:59 am
Moriarty wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 7:40 am

Doesn't change anything.

You already can't cut injured players. So you still have to pay that guy. So it counts towards having a player at X level.
Was actually factoring in the can't cut injured guys in season.

But if guys #48-53 cost - Say $4 million a year rather than $795 K - injuries can start to eat up your Cap REAL quick

Edit: Especially because Owners are ABSOLUTELY gonna push for 18 Games a year

Yeah, I'm not talking about taking the bottom end from 1M to 4M. 53x4 would be almost all your cap - you'd be almost a flat salary league, like Arena ball type stuff. Just double the low end to 2M maybe.

So for injuries, you'd need to have double your current cushion available - instead of 5-8M, 10-16.
Or, you could say anyone making minimum doesn't count towards your cap, if on IR, therefore you only spend extra cap money when expensive players are on IR, which is typically only a small handful a year.
1999-2002: Mouth Off Sports Forum (RIP)
2002-2014: KFFL (RIP)
2014-2016: USAToday Fantasy Sports Forum (RIP)

Hello, my name is Moriarty. I have come to kill your website, prepare to die.
RichH55
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8376
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 553 times
Been thanked: 658 times

Moriarty wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 10:25 am
RichH55 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 9:59 am

Was actually factoring in the can't cut injured guys in season.

But if guys #48-53 cost - Say $4 million a year rather than $795 K - injuries can start to eat up your Cap REAL quick

Edit: Especially because Owners are ABSOLUTELY gonna push for 18 Games a year

Yeah, I'm not talking about taking the bottom end from 1M to 4M. 53x4 would be almost all your cap - you'd be almost a flat salary league, like Arena ball type stuff. Just double the low end to 2M maybe.

So for injuries, you'd need to have double your current cushion available - instead of 5-8M, 10-16.
Or, you could say anyone making minimum doesn't count towards your cap, if on IR, therefore you only spend extra cap money when expensive players are on IR, which is typically only a small handful a year.
Ok - thank you for the clarification on the Low End Salary stuff

If players aren't counting against the Cap (And I know they do this already to an extent with the Vet Min. rule) - But if it goes over the Players designated % of Revenues - Would Players need to Escrow?
User avatar
malk
Head Coach
Posts: 3709
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:10 am
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 236 times

Moriarty wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:06 pm QBs eating up a huge part of the cap is becoming really bad for the game.
Other players go begging, because the QB gets prioritized first, and there's hardly anything left the NFL "middle class" after you pay the QB, a couple other stars, and then a lot of minimums.


But I don't see a QB Cap working. If you set the cap super high, it's irrelevant. If you set it lower than star QB money (say 50M), then what happens is star QBs will say "Well, I can get 50M from 15-30 different teams and no one can be the highest bidder. So, I'm purely going to go where I have the best chance to win." And then you have the best QBs gravitating to the best teams and the rich get richer (talentwise).


What I think might work better is raising minimum NFL salaries significantly, leaving less for the stars.
Maybe even something much more elaborate like "besides QB, you must have 3 20M+ salaries 3 15M+ , 5 10M+, 15 5M+" or something like that (just blindly throwing out numbers, without doing the math), forcing teams to have a middle class.


Also, there's one other thing that absolutely ought to happen which would impact pay a lot. I've been meaning to write it up for a while - I'll have to make time for it during the offseason.
Something definitely needs to be done but it will be difficult to implement in a way that doesn't have unintended consequences. One issue in the NBA is there are lots of players that aren't worth the max that get it and that might be the case here, but then the number of players to fit on the roster would mitigate against that. In terms of players gravitating to the best teams, unless there were big changes to the franchise tag system it'd get to the point where they could stick around on that tag and I don't get a sense there's a massive desire for players to switch around.

Increasing the minimums I could get on board with, as well as some kind of system that allowed for additional cap for drafted players in some way (e.g. rookie escalators shouldn't count against the cap imo).

The whole system needs an overhaul really. Star players get a disproportionate amount of the cap and that has lots of knock on effects for team building and the quality of the league overall.
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

Noted Brain Genius Malk, Summer 2018.

(2020 update, wait, was I right...)
User avatar
HisRoyalSweetness
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6833
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:20 pm
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 2288 times

The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 10:20 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 8:01 pm Yep, I agree with this. Much simpler and likely to be popular among a lot of players. It doesn't even have to be a massive raise because of the number of players involved. As important as a QB is paying them more than 50 times as much as a veteran on a minimum contract is pretty obscene.

As for the idea of a QB cap %, if you're going to go down that route why not just a player cap %? You don't have to say it's QB specific, but in practice that's obviously what it will be.
Only 41 players earned that minimum salary in 2021 so this isn't really the social justice cause you think it is.

https://fanbuzz.com/nfl/nfl-minimum-sal ... 1%20season.
If you increase the minimum salary then it will have a knock on effect on the salaries immediately above them.
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6140
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 117 times
Been thanked: 113 times

It's an interesting concept. I doubt it will happen. Until a team proves you can devalue the QB position the marker will always be in favor of the QB.

I personally think there are ways to devalue the QB position. It just hasn't been proven.
User avatar
Kylo Bearen
Player of the Month
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:50 pm
Has thanked: 132 times
Been thanked: 63 times

The thing is, even if other QBs don't deserve a contract like Mahomes got, it won't stop them from trying to get one, or at least get one that is closer to what he got than what they deserve. Now, you can say, "Then don't give it to them." But the thing is, most teams don't want to go fishing for a new QB in the draft every 5-6 years, and they don't know if they can trust other teams to "hold the line" and not give in to absurd QB demands. A cap would basically be an agreement that everyone will hold the line and not go over a certain amount when paying QBs.
Image
User avatar
Bearfacts
Head Coach
Posts: 2195
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:33 am
Location: Colorado
Has thanked: 1244 times
Been thanked: 318 times

dplank wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:05 pm An alternate approach that the NFL will never do is adjust the rules in a way that doesn’t put so much emphasis on offense / passing. The league forced this change and it’s no surprise that QBs and WRs are now getting paid the most.
Yup, call it a "be careful what you wish for" scenario which may well have been driven by broadcast networks who wanted more exciting higher scoring games. No one wants to see 10-6 and 13-10 defensive battles any longer.
User avatar
The Marshall Plan
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9036
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:47 am
Location: Parts Unknown
Has thanked: 1093 times
Been thanked: 1505 times

HEY EVER-BOD-EE!!!!

ITS ME!!!! YOUR PAL!!!! CHET FROM OAK PARK!!!!

I BEEN CRUNCHEN DA NUMBAHS ON MY TI-85 BACK FRUM HI SCHOOL!!! REMEMBAH HI-SCHOOL! REMEMBAH JOHN HUGHES MOVIES!!!

ANYWAYZ, I THINK PLAYAHS SHULD ONLY GET PAYD IF DEY WIN DA GAME AMMIRIGHT!!!???

I MEAN IF DAH REST OF US THREW PICKS AT WOIRK WED BE IN TROUBLE YOU KNOW WHAT IM SAYING?

DEEZ PEOPLE GET PAYD TO PLAY A GAME DAT I PAY WIT MY OWN HARD EARNED MONEY!!! (Marshall here, Chet hasn’t actually given the NFL a dime because he watches the games for free on his TV antenna and doesn’t go to games. Back to Chet….)

SO DEEZ GUYS SHUKD ONLY GET PAYD IF DEY DO DEIR JOBS!!!!
Image
User avatar
Grizzled
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5865
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:55 pm
Has thanked: 660 times
Been thanked: 578 times

Kylo Bearen wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 9:50 pm The thing is, even if other QBs don't deserve a contract like Mahomes got, it won't stop them from trying to get one, or at least get one that is closer to what he got than what they deserve. Now, you can say, "Then don't give it to them." But the thing is, most teams don't want to go fishing for a new QB in the draft every 5-6 years, and they don't know if they can trust other teams to "hold the line" and not give in to absurd QB demands. A cap would basically be an agreement that everyone will hold the line and not go over a certain amount when paying QBs.
Teams can't depend on other ones to toe the line and not overspend for a QB if that's what they think will give them wins. But as we've seen, they seem to lack a self-regulation feature. Owners have to be careful, though, about even discussing limiting player salaries outside of the CBA; it might be construed as collusion.
User avatar
Moriarty
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7201
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:22 pm
Has thanked: 435 times
Been thanked: 826 times

The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:10 am (Marshall here, Chet hasn’t actually given the NFL a dime because he watches the games for free on his TV antenna and doesn’t go to games. Back to Chet….)

I don't want to interrupt Chet, but the NFL makes a SHITLOAD off their national network broadcast rights

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_Am ... _contracts
1999-2002: Mouth Off Sports Forum (RIP)
2002-2014: KFFL (RIP)
2014-2016: USAToday Fantasy Sports Forum (RIP)

Hello, my name is Moriarty. I have come to kill your website, prepare to die.
RichH55
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8376
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 553 times
Been thanked: 658 times

Moriarty wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 7:04 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:10 am (Marshall here, Chet hasn’t actually given the NFL a dime because he watches the games for free on his TV antenna and doesn’t go to games. Back to Chet….)

I don't want to interrupt Chet, but the NFL makes a SHITLOAD off their national network broadcast rights

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_Am ... _contracts
Correct.

And 12% of the Cap is also like 30 Million?

Perhaps that's not the same as "we can't pay anyone" ?
Post Reply