Tua Tua’d himself again.

[wab]

They tryna kill that dude.

[LacertineForest]

They tryna kill that dude.

Seems like he's trying to take care of it himself:

PFT: Tua Tagovailoa won't wear a Guardian Cap in his return to the field

[Moriarty]

I love this game. And I love it to the death of me. Thats it.

If he goes for old-fashioned burial, that's a great tombstone epitaph.

[Grizzled]

Dolphins placing QB Tua Tagovailoa (concussion) on injured reserve

Tua Tagovailoa's latest concussion will sideline him until at least Week 8.

The Miami Dolphins are placing Tagovailoa on injured reserve, NFL Network Insiders Ian Rapoport and Mike Garafolo reported on Tuesday.

The Dolphins later officially announced the move.

Tagovailoa will miss at least the next four games before he's eligible to return, per NFL rules. Miami has its bye in Week 6, so the earliest Tagovailoa could return is the Dolphins Week 8 game against the Arizona Cardinals on Oct. 27.

Rapoport and Garafolo added that the decision was made to give Tagovailoa ample time to progress through the stages of league's concussion protocol and meet with outside neurologists.
...

Full article: https://www.nfl.com/news/dolphins-placi ... ed-reserve

Can/will any doc put their ass on the line and clear him to play again? The dude is competitive, thinks that hanging it up for health reasons is quitting so any push will have to come from the outside.

[dplank]

His body his choice IMO

[southdakbearfan]

His body his choice IMO

I agree. There has to be a point where the NFL and/or teams just say no, but I don’t know how or who can set that point.

[wab]

His body his choice IMO

I also agree. Doesn’t make it any less difficult to watch though.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I think your employer has a responsibility to protect you from harm. They should do everything reasonable to achieve that.

Letting him play on having had multiple concussions is irresponsible.

The NFL should step in IMO.

He’s a young man, young men are headstrong and blasé.
Sorry Tua, it’s over for you. Enjoy the rest of your life and live well.

[malk]

I think your employer has a responsibility to protect you from harm. They should do everything reasonable to achieve that.

Letting him play on having had multiple concussions is irresponsible.

The NFL should step in IMO.

He’s a young man, young men are headstrong and blasé.
Sorry Tua, it’s over for you. Enjoy the rest of your life and live well.

Yep, the NFL is still a workplace and needs to look after the safety of their employees. They're already lacking in this regard and allowing Tua back before he's properly cleared, if ever, would be egregious.

[dplank]

Where did you see they are letting him back before he’s cleared medically? That sounds false, but if they did that I’d agree with you for sure

[Rusty Trombagent]

[southdakbearfan]

I think your employer has a responsibility to protect you from harm. They should do everything reasonable to achieve that.

Letting him play on having had multiple concussions is irresponsible.

The NFL should step in IMO.

He’s a young man, young men are headstrong and blasé.
Sorry Tua, it’s over for you. Enjoy the rest of your life and live well.

If that was 100% the case, the game would never be played. Paralysis, permanent injury heck even death are always a possibility on the field.

If he passes medical clearance and makes the decision to play, regardless whether it’s smart or not, the dolphins have to allow it. Now they must inform him of all the potential repercussions of the future.

[LacertineForest]

Regarding the last point:

He will not wear a guardian cap if he’s able to play Sunday vs the Cardinals — but he wears the VICIS ZERO2 MATRIX ID QB helmet, which is the safest helmet for QBs and is graded higher than a regular helmet with a guardian cap over it. Don’t clutch pearls here; he could’ve done a better job explaining it Monday but his decision not to wear one is not putting him at any additional disadvantage

Okay, but does playing with a guardian cap over his highly-graded helmet still add protection? If so, I'm keeping my pearls firmly entrenched, thank-you-very-much.

[Rusty Trombagent]

Regarding the last point:

He will not wear a guardian cap if he’s able to play Sunday vs the Cardinals — but he wears the VICIS ZERO2 MATRIX ID QB helmet, which is the safest helmet for QBs and is graded higher than a regular helmet with a guardian cap over it. Don’t clutch pearls here; he could’ve done a better job explaining it Monday but his decision not to wear one is not putting him at any additional disadvantage

Okay, but does playing with a guardian cap over his highly-graded helmet still add protection? If so, I'm keeping my pearls firmly entrenched, thank-you-very-much.

I just dont really think it's gonna help. It's not gonna stop your brain from smashing into the inside of your skull, and that's what we're talking about when we're talking about nfl concussions. I think the helmet industry is just a bunch of pseudo science and anecdotal evidence.

[Moriarty]

I'm sure he will be declared "cleared" before he returns. However, there's a lot of problems with that metric.

1) Players lie. The protocol relies heavily on patient-reported symptoms and guys who want to get back out on the field often just say what accomplishes that.

2) Teams & the league don't always follow their own rules. For example, guys have been knocked clearly wobbly before and not pulled off the field, as required by "protocol". This one probably won't be an issue here, because it's so high profile and there's so many eyes on it.

3) By far the most important one in this situation - when it comes to concussions, the NFL standard for "cleared" is a deeply flawed and limited metric. Going a few days or being able to run without symptoms is super and all, but it doesn't mean there isn't hugely increased risk any more. It's kind of like a cardiologist saying "OK, you're not having chest pains now. And it's been 2 weeks since your last heart attack. So keep right on being 100 pounds overweight, eating tons of fried food, and doing sporadic heavy exercise like shoveling snow."
"Lack of immediate symptoms" and "this is a reasonably safe thing for you to resume" can be, and are in this case, totally different things.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I think your employer has a responsibility to protect you from harm. They should do everything reasonable to achieve that.

Letting him play on having had multiple concussions is irresponsible.

The NFL should step in IMO.

He’s a young man, young men are headstrong and blasé.
Sorry Tua, it’s over for you. Enjoy the rest of your life and live well.

If that was 100% the case, the game would never be played. Paralysis, permanent injury heck even death are always a possibility on the field.

If he passes medical clearance and makes the decision to play, regardless whether it’s smart or not, the dolphins have to allow it. Now they must inform him of all the potential repercussions of the future.

So if he has had a major neck injury.

Fully recovered.

Does he play on? Not for me, it’s unreasonable to allow him to take the risk.

For example, imagine a player had a head injury but he insists on playing without a helmet? His body his choice?

Reasonable precautions accepting ‘the game is the game’.

[HurricaneBear]

I think your employer has a responsibility to protect you from harm. They should do everything reasonable to achieve that.

Letting him play on having had multiple concussions is irresponsible.

The NFL should step in IMO.

He’s a young man, young men are headstrong and blasé.
Sorry Tua, it’s over for you. Enjoy the rest of your life and live well.

If that was 100% the case, the game would never be played. Paralysis, permanent injury heck even death are always a possibility on the field.

If he passes medical clearance and makes the decision to play, regardless whether it’s smart or not, the dolphins have to allow it. Now they must inform him of all the potential repercussions of the future.

There's a huge difference between the risk any average NFL player takes every play, and the risk Tua takes.

Also, the Dolphins don't "have to allow it". They can bench him just like any other player for whatever reason they want. They won't bench him, but they certainly can if they want to.

[Rusty Trombagent]

3) By far the most important one in this situation - when it comes to concussions, the NFL standard for "cleared" is a deeply flawed and limited metric. Going a few days or being able to run without symptoms is super and all, but it doesn't mean there isn't hugely increased risk any more. It's kind of like a cardiologist saying "OK, you're not having chest pains now. And it's been 2 weeks since your last heart attack. So keep right on being 100 pounds overweight, eating tons of fried food, and doing sporadic heavy exercise like shoveling snow."
"Lack of immediate symptoms" and "this is a reasonably safe thing for you to resume" can be, and are in this case, totally different things.

Also though, this is ALL blue collar jobs. I've got a herniated disc and nerve damage in a finger tip from years of stonework that I'll be dealing with forever. Which honestly makes the hand wringing over NFL players and concussions sort of funny? I dont think a lot of people actually realize what doing physical labor jobs in this country is actually like.

I dont want to get this thread locked obviously, but this isnt some unique NFL problem. It's capitalism baby, it eats people alive.

[Moriarty]

3) By far the most important one in this situation - when it comes to concussions, the NFL standard for "cleared" is a deeply flawed and limited metric. Going a few days or being able to run without symptoms is super and all, but it doesn't mean there isn't hugely increased risk any more. It's kind of like a cardiologist saying "OK, you're not having chest pains now. And it's been 2 weeks since your last heart attack. So keep right on being 100 pounds overweight, eating tons of fried food, and doing sporadic heavy exercise like shoveling snow."
"Lack of immediate symptoms" and "this is a reasonably safe thing for you to resume" can be, and are in this case, totally different things.

Also though, this is ALL blue collar jobs. I've got a herniated disc and nerve damage in a finger tip from years of stonework that I'll be dealing with forever. Which honestly makes the hand wringing over NFL players and concussions sort of funny? I dont think a lot of people actually realize what doing physical labor jobs in this country is actually like.

I dont want to get this thread locked obviously, but this isnt some unique NFL problem. It's capitalism baby, it eats people alive.

It does - but protections for workers are generally much, much, much better than they were 50-100 years ago. And that only comes from outrage and regulation.

[southdakbearfan]

If that was 100% the case, the game would never be played. Paralysis, permanent injury heck even death are always a possibility on the field.

If he passes medical clearance and makes the decision to play, regardless whether it’s smart or not, the dolphins have to allow it. Now they must inform him of all the potential repercussions of the future.

So if he has had a major neck injury.

Fully recovered.

Does he play on? Not for me, it’s unreasonable to allow him to take the risk.

For example, imagine a player had a head injury but he insists on playing without a helmet? His body his choice?

Reasonable precautions accepting ‘the game is the game’.

Fully recovered, means to me cleared by doctors to play. If he couldnt pass clearance to play then insurance plans kick in to pay salaries and everyone goes their separate path.

Being the brain it’s tricky, but if the independent neurologist clear him and he wants to, then I don’t see how a team can stop him if he wants to, unless they just want to pay him to sit.

Helmets are required safety gear, so that argument is invalid.

[dplank]

Boxing is a sport where the objective is to literally bash someone's head so hard that they go unconscious. If that sport continues to be legal I'm just not going to go overboard about football.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Not a hill I’m going to die on but for me, the NFL should step in.

Doctors get it wrong, sorry but they’re human and humans make mistakes. Sue the doctor? Great, but then Tua could have permanent brain injury.

Back in the 80’s if you could count the number of fingers the doctor is holding up you’re good to go. Then 30 years later their lives are ruined.

Too much at stake for me, shouldn’t be a player/team decision.

[dplank]

Not a hill I’m going to die on but for me, the NFL should step in.

Doctors get it wrong, sorry but they’re human and humans make mistakes. Sue the doctor? Great, but then Tua could have permanent brain injury.

Back in the 80’s if you could count the number of fingers the doctor is holding up you’re good to go. Then 30 years later their lives are ruined.

Too much at stake for me, shouldn’t be a player/team decision.

You don’t trust the doctors but you do trust the NFL? Seems backwards to me. Ultimately I trust the player to do what’s in their own best interests.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Not a hill I’m going to die on but for me, the NFL should step in.

Doctors get it wrong, sorry but they’re human and humans make mistakes. Sue the doctor? Great, but then Tua could have permanent brain injury.

Back in the 80’s if you could count the number of fingers the doctor is holding up you’re good to go. Then 30 years later their lives are ruined.

Too much at stake for me, shouldn’t be a player/team decision.

You don’t trust the doctors but you do trust the NFL? Seems backwards to me. Ultimately I trust the player to do what’s in their own best interests.

It’s not that I don’t trust the doctors, I just think there are too many imponderables with neurological injuries.

It’s not that I trust the NFL, I just think they should step in if someone is having repeated concussions over a short period of time, they should call it.

Players are dumb.

[Grizzled]

It may be his choice to play regardless but any doctor who signs off on him is a fool.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

There's a really good article on the BBC website about this today. There's too much for me to cut it down to the key parts so I urge people to go and read the full text:

'I love this game to the death of me' - why Tagovailoa returned

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/american-fo ... 4ljnpp973o

[Xee]

There's a really good article on the BBC website about this today. There's too much for me to cut it down to the key parts so I urge people to go and read the full text:

'I love this game to the death of me' - why Tagovailoa returned

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/american-fo ... 4ljnpp973o

I think people tend to dismiss too quickly how much playing this game is in the blood of a lot of players. If you asked them if it is worth having to deal with Parkinsons later in life for 3-10 years of professional football, a lot of players would say yes. Sure we see some players retire early out of concerns of this, but they are the exception.

[malk]

There's a really good article on the BBC website about this today. There's too much for me to cut it down to the key parts so I urge people to go and read the full text:

I think people tend to dismiss too quickly how much playing this game is in the blood of a lot of players. If you asked them if it is worth having to deal with Parkinsons later in life for 3-10 years of professional football, a lot of players would say yes. Sure we see some players retire early out of concerns of this, but they are the exception.

I think the more pertinent question is asking the guys who have just recieved the diagnosis whether they think it was worth carrying on playing at the time.

[Grizzled]

4th and 3, Miami down a TD to Buffalo. Tua runs. But he doesn't slide, he dives head first. Some players just never learn. He got away with it this time.

[Moriarty]

4th and 3, Miami down a TD to Buffalo. Tua runs. But he doesn't slide, he dives head first. Some players just never learn. He got away with it this time.