Bears have fired Matt Eberflus

[crueltyabc]

I remember a certain amount of criticism coming from the locker room last season too and they never stopped playing hard. Everyone thinks he's a good coordinator that can't HC, even his players.

[dplank]

I also don't think enough credit is given to the players in the "they still played hard" commentary. Like, I get Flus is a part of that and all, but the players are even moreso IMO.

[LacertineForest]

I've been a pretty vocal critic of Flus for awhile now, but I would be surprised if he lost the locker room. They went through some pretty tough shit over the last couple of years, but they kept fighting. I expect them to come out and play hard this week.

[wab]

I am through with Eberflus.

I think it's probably best to wait until the end of the season when there will be more options available.

Poles needs to get a proven OC for the Bears HC and please don't change the D to a new scheme.

Because that worked so well when the Bears wanted to hire Arians but were going to force Mel Tucker on him because they didn't want to change the defense.

If you want a good coach, they get to choose their scheme. Otherwise you get Marc Trestman.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Fortunately in Eric Washington and a vet defensive staff we have the DC and others we need to keep a top ten defense. Extend them so we can keep them in place but let Flus and Waldron go.

Poles needs to get a proven OC for the Bears HC and please don't change the D to a new scheme.

Sorry fellas, but if Flus goes so does the whole staff. Poles can't saddle a new head coach with coordinators and assistants that are not of his choosing or insist he runs a particular defensive scheme.

[Boris13c]

well, when you're a defensive coach, and your grand defensive plans result in a complete clusterfuck during the most critical point of the game, you should get abused

most of the players aren't as stupid as Eberflus thinks they are, and I know they are not buying his bullshit ... those that are mentally challenged applaud Eberflus for being a "players coach", which they take as being able to do what they want because they no there are no repercussions for their failures

[malk]

I also don't think enough credit is given to the players in the "they still played hard" commentary. Like, I get Flus is a part of that and all, but the players are even moreso IMO.

Sure, but there does seem to be a general perception of where bad things happen it's because of the coaching and where good things happen it's despite them, and I'm not sure there's any real basis for that?

I was thinking about how many of the defenders have become better under Flus, whether that's Brisker and Gordon becoming pretty solid under his defence, Johnson going from promising to solid when Flus came, then elite for the past couple of years. Edmunds currently having the makings of a career year. Plus Dex, and Billings and Sanborn... Coaching has to count for something here.

I also thought to check the other coaches hired when Flus was and saw this SI piece on what situations they were walking into, where we're down as the 2nd worst of the 10 gigs https://www.nfl.com/news/10-new-nfl-hea ... -let-s-ran.

Of the 10 who were hired:

Smith - Fired. Beard game absolutely on point though, chapeau Lovie x
Flus - 14-27 overall, 4-3 in 2024. Elite defence, offence hit and miss but doing better than average with a rookie QB.
Doug Pederson - 20-22 overall 2-6 in 2024. Jags are not doing well at all, quite likely to be fired. (PROVEN OFFENSIVE MIND KLAXXON!)
Brian Daboll - 17-24 overall, 2-6 in 2024. The "The ultra-creative play-caller" doesn't seem to be able to overcome mediocre QB play.
Kevin O'Connell - 25-16 overall, 5-2 in 2024. Great first year but disappointing to go one and done in the playoffs. Poor last year but managing the post Cousins era well so far this season. Remains to be seen if the Vikings can keep it up. Good overall.
Mike McDaniel - 22-19 overall, 2-5 in 2024. Took over a winning team from Flores and, has been about the same before the wheels fell of with Tua this year.
Nathaniel Hackett - Fired into the sun.
Dennis Allen - 18-24 overall, 2-6 in 2024. Came into a winning programme but with some serious cap issues. Bumbled for a couple of seasons and things don't look great right now.
Josh McDaniels - Fired after going 9-16 because his oFfEnSiVe mInD couldn't overcome him being an absolute weapon.
Todd Bowles - 21-21 overall, 4-4 in 2024. A bit unusual in taking the reins for Brady's final season where they only managed 8-9 but Tom was 4000 years old. Doing decently enough since then but not pulling up any trees.

So I look at that list and ask myself is there anyone who would have been better than Flus? O'Connell is the only maybe but walking into a room with Cousins and Jefferson is a luxury! The Flores hire was a great one, a big upgrade from his first hire of Ed Donatell. I then think of the Pederson, Daboll, McDaniel "offensive minds" and, um, maybe the grass isn't always greener.

I would add that if we did move on from Flus next year it'd be an absolute dream job to walk into, especially if they sort out the offensive line a bit. And maybe Ben Johnson is generational, what do I know.

[IotaNet]

A couple of things here ...

1) The "Eberflus instead of Quinn" deal feels a little like "Trestman instead of Arians." I know the timing and circumstances are different, but Quinn feels to me like this generation's version of Arians.

2) I wonder if we need to do a "Doug Collins to Phil Jackson" move with Eberflus. Again, slightly different circumstances but Reinsdorf was smart enough to realize that Collins was good enough to lift the Bulls out of mediocrity but he wasn't the guy to take the team to the Championship level.

I'm just spitballing but those are my thoughts.

[malk]

A couple of things here ...

1) The "Eberflus instead of Quinn" deal feels a little like "Trestman instead of Arians." I know the timing and circumstances are different, but Quinn feels to me like this generation's version of Arians.

2) I wonder if we need to do a "Doug Collins to Phil Jackson" move with Eberflus. Again, slightly different circumstances but Reinsdorf was smart enough to realize that Collins was good enough to lift the Bulls out of mediocrity but he wasn't the guy to take the team to the Championship level.

I'm just spitballing but those are my thoughts.

I mean, the prediction the season poll was clustered around 9, 10, 11 wins and that's about what we're on for at the moment. Yet we've got people saying we should fire the coach even if we get 10 wins.

(My brain wants to make an Event Horizon joke here somehow but it isn't dropping for some reason, one to workshop...).

[dplank]

I think you've anchored and chosen a hill to die on honestly. And I don't think it ends well, but we shall see. He'll get the rest of the year I'm sure.

[dplank]

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I also don't think enough credit is given to the players in the "they still played hard" commentary. Like, I get Flus is a part of that and all, but the players are even moreso IMO.

Sure, but there does seem to be a general perception of where bad things happen it's because of the coaching and where good things happen it's despite them, and I'm not sure there's any real basis for that?

I was thinking about how many of the defenders have become better under Flus, whether that's Brisker and Gordon becoming pretty solid under his defence, Johnson going from promising to solid when Flus came, then elite for the past couple of years. Edmunds currently having the makings of a career year. Plus Dex, and Billings and Sanborn... Coaching has to count for something here.

I also thought to check the other coaches hired when Flus was and saw this SI piece on what situations they were walking into, where we're down as the 2nd worst of the 10 gigs https://www.nfl.com/news/10-new-nfl-hea ... -let-s-ran.

Of the 10 who were hired:

Smith - Fired. Beard game absolutely on point though, chapeau Lovie x
Flus - 14-27 overall, 4-3 in 2024. Elite defence, offence hit and miss but doing better than average with a rookie QB.
Doug Pederson - 20-22 overall 2-6 in 2024. Jags are not doing well at all, quite likely to be fired. (PROVEN OFFENSIVE MIND KLAXXON!)
Brian Daboll - 17-24 overall, 2-6 in 2024. The "The ultra-creative play-caller" doesn't seem to be able to overcome mediocre QB play.
Kevin O'Connell - 25-16 overall, 5-2 in 2024. Great first year but disappointing to go one and done in the playoffs. Poor last year but managing the post Cousins era well so far this season. Remains to be seen if the Vikings can keep it up. Good overall.
Mike McDaniel - 22-19 overall, 2-5 in 2024. Took over a winning team from Flores and, has been about the same before the wheels fell of with Tua this year.
Nathaniel Hackett - Fired into the sun.
Dennis Allen - 18-24 overall, 2-6 in 2024. Came into a winning programme but with some serious cap issues. Bumbled for a couple of seasons and things don't look great right now.
Josh McDaniels - Fired after going 9-16 because his oFfEnSiVe mInD couldn't overcome him being an absolute weapon.
Todd Bowles - 21-21 overall, 4-4 in 2024. A bit unusual in taking the reins for Brady's final season where they only managed 8-9 but Tom was 4000 years old. Doing decently enough since then but not pulling up any trees.

So I look at that list and ask myself is there anyone who would have been better than Flus? O'Connell is the only maybe but walking into a room with Cousins and Jefferson is a luxury! The Flores hire was a great one, a big upgrade from his first hire of Ed Donatell. I then think of the Pederson, Daboll, McDaniel "offensive minds" and, um, maybe the grass isn't always greener.

I would add that if we did move on from Flus next year it'd be an absolute dream job to walk into, especially if they sort out the offensive line a bit. And maybe Ben Johnson is generational, what do I know.

I look at that list and I think Flus has the third worst record, and that’s a fairly long list. Lovie and Hackett being worse.

Out of those still coaching (not fired) he has the worst record.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

A couple of things here ...

1) The "Eberflus instead of Quinn" deal feels a little like "Trestman instead of Arians." I know the timing and circumstances are different, but Quinn feels to me like this generation's version of Arians.

2) I wonder if we need to do a "Doug Collins to Phil Jackson" move with Eberflus. Again, slightly different circumstances but Reinsdorf was smart enough to realize that Collins was good enough to lift the Bulls out of mediocrity but he wasn't the guy to take the team to the Championship level.

I'm just spitballing but those are my thoughts.

I mean, the prediction the season poll was clustered around 9, 10, 11 wins and that's about what we're on for at the moment. Yet we've got people saying we should fire the coach even if we get 10 wins.

(My brain wants to make an Event Horizon joke here somehow but it isn't dropping for some reason, one to workshop...).

We won’t win 9 games. Sorry, but I can’t see us winning a divisional game, I can’t see us beating the 9ers and I can’t really see us beating Seattle.

Unless there is a RADICAL change and we pluck from ‘RichH55’s guard tree’

[malk]

Sure, but there does seem to be a general perception of where bad things happen it's because of the coaching and where good things happen it's despite them, and I'm not sure there's any real basis for that?

I was thinking about how many of the defenders have become better under Flus, whether that's Brisker and Gordon becoming pretty solid under his defence, Johnson going from promising to solid when Flus came, then elite for the past couple of years. Edmunds currently having the makings of a career year. Plus Dex, and Billings and Sanborn... Coaching has to count for something here.

I also thought to check the other coaches hired when Flus was and saw this SI piece on what situations they were walking into, where we're down as the 2nd worst of the 10 gigs https://www.nfl.com/news/10-new-nfl-hea ... -let-s-ran.

Of the 10 who were hired:

Smith - Fired. Beard game absolutely on point though, chapeau Lovie x
Flus - 14-27 overall, 4-3 in 2024. Elite defence, offence hit and miss but doing better than average with a rookie QB.
Doug Pederson - 20-22 overall 2-6 in 2024. Jags are not doing well at all, quite likely to be fired. (PROVEN OFFENSIVE MIND KLAXXON!)
Brian Daboll - 17-24 overall, 2-6 in 2024. The "The ultra-creative play-caller" doesn't seem to be able to overcome mediocre QB play.
Kevin O'Connell - 25-16 overall, 5-2 in 2024. Great first year but disappointing to go one and done in the playoffs. Poor last year but managing the post Cousins era well so far this season. Remains to be seen if the Vikings can keep it up. Good overall.
Mike McDaniel - 22-19 overall, 2-5 in 2024. Took over a winning team from Flores and, has been about the same before the wheels fell of with Tua this year.
Nathaniel Hackett - Fired into the sun.
Dennis Allen - 18-24 overall, 2-6 in 2024. Came into a winning programme but with some serious cap issues. Bumbled for a couple of seasons and things don't look great right now.
Josh McDaniels - Fired after going 9-16 because his oFfEnSiVe mInD couldn't overcome him being an absolute weapon.
Todd Bowles - 21-21 overall, 4-4 in 2024. A bit unusual in taking the reins for Brady's final season where they only managed 8-9 but Tom was 4000 years old. Doing decently enough since then but not pulling up any trees.

So I look at that list and ask myself is there anyone who would have been better than Flus? O'Connell is the only maybe but walking into a room with Cousins and Jefferson is a luxury! The Flores hire was a great one, a big upgrade from his first hire of Ed Donatell. I then think of the Pederson, Daboll, McDaniel "offensive minds" and, um, maybe the grass isn't always greener.

I would add that if we did move on from Flus next year it'd be an absolute dream job to walk into, especially if they sort out the offensive line a bit. And maybe Ben Johnson is generational, what do I know.

I look at that list and I think Flus has the third worst record, and that’s a fairly long list. Lovie and Hackett being worse.

Out of those still coaching (not fired) he has the worst record.

If you genetically engineered a diabolical composite of Halas and Lombardi, a football abomination so evil it made God itself weep, it'd only go 8-9 in 2022 and merely succeed in fucking our draft position.

[dplank]

[thunderspirit]

I personally take all of 2022 out of it. Yes, it's his record, but the team was trying to be ass.
Last year's 7-10 record and this year's record is what I judge Eberflus on.

To me he's 11-13, including 2-10 on the road, and those 13 losses come with four, count them, FOUR catastrophic collapses to lose games in the final quarter. More than one quarter of those losses.

@malk and I are normally very closely aligned when we look at this team, with some notable exceptions. I agree with him, for instance, that the offensive guru approach fails nearly as often as the defensive guru approach does, and that's because being a good coordinator is a poor indicator of what kind of head coach you'll be — the responsibilities are often dramatically different. Hiring a new coach with no HC experience is a crapshoot, and hiring a retread HC is usually just as fraught, because usually those guys were fired for a reason (see: Peterson, Doug). So @malk and I agree that hiring someone else is, by itself, no guarantee of improvement.

That said, someone besides Eberflus is extremely unlikely to create NFL history by losing 16% of NFL games his team is actually trying to win in ridiculously incredible fashion.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I look at that list and I think Flus has the third worst record, and that’s a fairly long list. Lovie and Hackett being worse.

Out of those still coaching (not fired) he has the worst record.

If you genetically engineered a diabolical composite of Halas and Lombardi, a football abomination so evil it made God itself weep, it'd only go 8-9 in 2022 and merely succeed in fucking our draft position.

That being said, you can’t draw up a list stating coaches records and then ignore Flus is number 8 on a list of 10.

I’d argue ALL the records are nuanced, not just Flus.

[malk]

If you genetically engineered a diabolical composite of Halas and Lombardi, a football abomination so evil it made God itself weep, it'd only go 8-9 in 2022 and merely succeed in fucking our draft position.

That being said, you can’t draw up a list stating coaches records and then ignore Flus is number 8 on a list of 10.

I’d argue ALL the records are nuanced, not just Flus.

No. You absolutely can. I'm happy to discuss how much of a tank season it was (I.e. I don't think it was full tank from day 1) but you just can't call out a coach for losses when the team was more or less trying to lose. I'm (not) sorry, you just can't.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

That being said, you can’t draw up a list stating coaches records and then ignore Flus is number 8 on a list of 10.

I’d argue ALL the records are nuanced, not just Flus.

No. You absolutely can. I'm happy to discuss how much of a tank season it was (I.e. I don't think it was full tank from day 1) but you just can't call out a coach for losses when the team was more or less trying to lose. I'm (not) sorry, you just can't.

I’m not calling him out, you put up a list of coaches who started the same time as Flus with their records (except the 2 worse than Flus) and you said no-one could have done better.

Well 7 of them objectively have better records.

So I don’t support your conclusion that none of the coaches could have done a better job. 7 out of 9 of them have a better record and the other 2 have been launched.

Flus is on the hot seat.

[malk]

No. You absolutely can. I'm happy to discuss how much of a tank season it was (I.e. I don't think it was full tank from day 1) but you just can't call out a coach for losses when the team was more or less trying to lose. I'm (not) sorry, you just can't.

I’m not calling him out, you put up a list of coaches who started the same time as Flus with their records (except the 2 worse than Flus) and you said no-one could have done better.

Well 7 of them objectively have better records.

So I don’t support your conclusion that none of the coaches could have done a better job. 7 out of 9 of them have a better record and the other 2 have been launched.

Flus is on the hot seat.

With. Different. Teams. Jfc man!

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I’m not calling him out, you put up a list of coaches who started the same time as Flus with their records (except the 2 worse than Flus) and you said no-one could have done better.

Well 7 of them objectively have better records.

So I don’t support your conclusion that none of the coaches could have done a better job. 7 out of 9 of them have a better record and the other 2 have been launched.

Flus is on the hot seat.

With. Different. Teams. Jfc man!

So why the list and then the conclusion that none of the coaches could have done a better job?

For all we can tell ALL of them could have. We have no way of knowing.

[malk]

With. Different. Teams. Jfc man!

So why the list and then the conclusion that none of the coaches could have done a better job?

For all we can tell ALL of them could have. We have no way of knowing.

Certainty isn't a predicate of knowledge so whilst counterfactuals are definitionally uncertain they can still be illuminating. Which is a wanky way to say I gave a brief overview of all ten head coaches hired when Flus was, nearly all in a better position than we were, and very few are in an obviously better position than we are.

Which isn't to say that we couldn't get better by changing coach but merely to push back against the barely suppressed premise on here since Sunday that we couldnt help but get better by canning him.

And let me offer a more stark example. For those coaches that managed around .500 in their first two years and are now 2-6 or whatever, does their better overall record than Flus indicate they're better than him, or that their teams are in a better position?

All this said, we're borrowing my parent's house for the week and I'm a bottle into the good wine after a watching Stalker. I might instead cue up Solaris and really melt my brain with a little Tarkovsky marathon.

[UOK]

[HisRoyalSweetness]

The media sense a coach is vulnerable and are after blood, behaving like sharks ready to pounce. It's pretty disgusting really, but that's the media for you. The only way Eberflus can save himself is by stockpiling wins.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Eberflus is going to have to beat AZ, and NE. He will have to be very competitive with GB, and the rest of the NFCN. If he comes up way short against any of them, he can start packing his bags.

[Arkansasbear]

Eberflus is going to have to beat AZ, and NE. He will have to be very competitive with GB, and the rest of the NFCN. If he comes up way short against any of them, he can start packing his bags.

I’m now of the opinion it’s playoffs or bust got him.

[wab]

Eberflus is going to have to beat AZ, and NE. He will have to be very competitive with GB, and the rest of the NFCN. If he comes up way short against any of them, he can start packing his bags.

I’m now of the opinion it’s playoffs or bust got him.

I think 10 wins saves him. Playoffs are going to be tough being in the North.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

From an article by Patrick Finley:

Speaking in the locker room, safety Kevin Byard said he shouldn’t have told reporters Monday that he met with Eberflus to question why the team didn’t play closer coverage on the penultimate down of the game, a 13-yard completion to Terry McLaurin. Receiver DJ Moore expressed remorse for questioning the handoff to offensive lineman Doug Kramer — which ended in a fumble — while on a paid radio appearance Monday.

Moore said he hurt the team with his comments — but insisted he stood by his stance.

“It’s a tough slip,” he said. “I mean, I answered the question truthfully.”
...

Asked how the players retained their belief in their coach, Eberflus said to ask them. Linebacker Tremaine Edumunds, a captain, said that accountability means the players and coaches are “in this together.” Johnson said he supports Eberflus the same way he backed quarterback Justin Fields last year — which might prove to be an unfortunate comparison.

“Whoever is in our locker room, whoever our coaches are, that is who we believe in,” Johnson said.

Byard said he respects Eberflus, who doubles as the team’s play-caller.

“If you play 72 plays on defense and, let’s say, for example, he called four or five bad plays, and he called the rest of them great, that doesn’t make him a terrible coach,” Byard said. “I still believe in him as a coach and believe him as a man. I respect the fact that he lets us voice our opinions in meetings.”
...

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2024 ... -hail-mary

[RichH55]

From an article by Patrick Finley:

Speaking in the locker room, safety Kevin Byard said he shouldn’t have told reporters Monday that he met with Eberflus to question why the team didn’t play closer coverage on the penultimate down of the game, a 13-yard completion to Terry McLaurin. Receiver DJ Moore expressed remorse for questioning the handoff to offensive lineman Doug Kramer — which ended in a fumble — while on a paid radio appearance Monday.

Moore said he hurt the team with his comments — but insisted he stood by his stance.

“It’s a tough slip,” he said. “I mean, I answered the question truthfully.”
...

Asked how the players retained their belief in their coach, Eberflus said to ask them. Linebacker Tremaine Edumunds, a captain, said that accountability means the players and coaches are “in this together.” Johnson said he supports Eberflus the same way he backed quarterback Justin Fields last year — which might prove to be an unfortunate comparison.

“Whoever is in our locker room, whoever our coaches are, that is who we believe in,” Johnson said.

Byard said he respects Eberflus, who doubles as the team’s play-caller.

“If you play 72 plays on defense and, let’s say, for example, he called four or five bad plays, and he called the rest of them great, that doesn’t make him a terrible coach,” Byard said. “I still believe in him as a coach and believe him as a man. I respect the fact that he lets us voice our opinions in meetings.”
...

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2024 ... -hail-mary

Pressers don't generally matter for this reason. Players know not to say anything THERE. They are trained for cliches.

That isn't necessarily anything close to the reality of things though

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Listen to them for yourself:



The emphasis seems to be on keeping criticisms in-house, but the players don't seem particularly happy about that.