Offensive Line - What will it look like

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Not overly specific or a verifiable source, but maybe somewhat confirms the expected.
Not clear on severity, though.

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Poles has to be aggressively looking at trades right now, even if only to find another Bates like player (hopefully uninjured mind!).
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:23 pm A look at Amegadjie's first outing:



Too much of a positive spin in my opinion.

For those interested, PFF have given him an initial 49.8 grade.
Good stuff here, thx for sharing. His arm length is incredible and he's very quick with his feet as the guy kept pointing out. I saw him get beat a few times in the limited snaps I saw of the game and drew the wrong conclusion - I thought he was getting physically beat but it looked more like confusion more than anything else. Which is understandable in his first action and makes me feel a lot better than just getting manhandled or something.
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dplank wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:11 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:23 pm A look at Amegadjie's first outing:



Too much of a positive spin in my opinion.

For those interested, PFF have given him an initial 49.8 grade.
Good stuff here, thx for sharing. His arm length is incredible and he's very quick with his feet as the guy kept pointing out. I saw him get beat a few times in the limited snaps I saw of the game and drew the wrong conclusion - I thought he was getting physically beat but it looked more like confusion more than anything else. Which is understandable in his first action and makes me feel a lot better than just getting manhandled or something.
It was bad but you've got to feel for the guys who come in mid game after barely getting any practice reps the week before, barely any reps all year! That'd be hard for a vet but almost impossible for a green rookie. One to chalk up to experience.
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dplank wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:11 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:23 pm A look at Amegadjie's first outing:



Too much of a positive spin in my opinion.

For those interested, PFF have given him an initial 49.8 grade.
Good stuff here, thx for sharing. His arm length is incredible and he's very quick with his feet as the guy kept pointing out. I saw him get beat a few times in the limited snaps I saw of the game and drew the wrong conclusion - I thought he was getting physically beat but it looked more like confusion more than anything else. Which is understandable in his first action and makes me feel a lot better than just getting manhandled or something.
After going back and watching some of his snaps, I really think there might be something to work with. He's incredibly athletic and strong.
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wab wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:30 am After going back and watching some of his snaps, I really think there might be something to work with. He's incredibly athletic and strong.
Oh there's definitely something to work with. It's just you don't want to work with it in actual games this year particularly when the rest of the line is struggling. It's not good for the team nor is it good for the player. His preparation couldn't have been worse. Unfortunately with all the injuries they may not have much choice.
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Honestly, does anyone have any faith in THIS coaching staff to get anything out of this player?

It’ll finish his career before it starts.

Literally all of our offensive linemen get worse the longer they stay in Chicago.
The arrive in Chicago and start the decline from Day 1.

B Jones - great rookie year, decline since mid season Y1.
D Wright -,good rookie year, on the deep decline..
L Patrick - good for Packers, shit for Bears, now good again.

Chicago is not only where QBs come to die, it’s where Offensive linemen come to die.
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:40 pm Honestly, does anyone have any faith in THIS coaching staff to get anything out of this player?

It’ll finish his career before it starts.

Literally all of our offensive linemen get worse the longer they stay in Chicago.
The arrive in Chicago and start the decline from Day 1.

B Jones - great rookie year, decline since mid season Y1.
D Wright -,good rookie year, on the deep decline..
L Patrick - good for Packers, shit for Bears, now good again.

Chicago is not only where QBs come to die, it’s where Offensive linemen come to die.
Step away from the ledge comrade!
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malk wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:01 pm
Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:40 pm Honestly, does anyone have any faith in THIS coaching staff to get anything out of this player?

It’ll finish his career before it starts.

Literally all of our offensive linemen get worse the longer they stay in Chicago.
The arrive in Chicago and start the decline from Day 1.

B Jones - great rookie year, decline since mid season Y1.
D Wright -,good rookie year, on the deep decline..
L Patrick - good for Packers, shit for Bears, now good again.

Chicago is not only where QBs come to die, it’s where Offensive linemen come to die.
Step away from the ledge comrade!
But it’s true
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I watched the all-22 and thought Amegadjie struggled a little bit with the quickness he was facing at times. He's a work in progress but didn't look like a bust to me. I'd rather have Borom over there next weekend but also think Amegadjie would look better when he's had a chance to rep with the LG all week. Now... who is that LG? Is Tev really ok? We'll find out tomorrow I guess.
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Feel bad for Murray if the torn pec is true. Felt like he added depth to the roster but he didn't have much of a chance to show his ability in a game.
With Murray out they went to Kramer at LG since Tev was out with an injury. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but for Kramer to take his FB dive at the goal line Tev had to come back in at LG.

So you have a gimpy player in the middle of a scrum with many large men crashing down on him, and it was further compounded when Kramer fumbled next to (behind?) Jenkins. It looked like in the melee Jenkins got bent back as his legs were trapped. A man with back problems has his back bending the wrong way.

[if all of this is true and I believe it is]
How can a coach call this play knowing they're putting Jenkins at the point of attack? Did they promise Kramer they'd run this play when it was available? Did they think it was the best play to run at that time? People are debating whether Stevenson should be benched for a game, but this bonehead play has the potential to take out Jenkins for the rest of the season. Maybe career? Again this shows a lack of awareness by the HC not having the right personnel on the field.

The smart move would have been to keep Kramer at LG, Tev on the bench and run right over Pryor with RoJo. Which is what they did for the second TD. I don't have access to All-22 so if someone can verify this sequence of events leading up to the Kramer fumble I'd appreciate it.
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malk wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:01 pm
Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:40 pm Honestly, does anyone have any faith in THIS coaching staff to get anything out of this player?

It’ll finish his career before it starts.

Literally all of our offensive linemen get worse the longer they stay in Chicago.
The arrive in Chicago and start the decline from Day 1.

B Jones - great rookie year, decline since mid season Y1.
D Wright -,good rookie year, on the deep decline..
L Patrick - good for Packers, shit for Bears, now good again.

Chicago is not only where QBs come to die, it’s where Offensive linemen come to die.
Step away from the ledge comrade!
His whole going-nuclear-after-a-loss bit generally wears off when they inevitably win again. Then it’s back to the playoffs.
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wab wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:27 pm
malk wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:01 pm

Step away from the ledge comrade!
His whole going-nuclear-after-a-loss bit generally wears off when they inevitably win again. Then it’s back to the playoffs.
“Inevitably win”.

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Swift Sports has just reported that Braxton Jones is week-to-week and the Bears don't think it's a long-term issue.

He also reported that Bill Murray has been placed on IR.

No news on Teven Jenkins yet.

The Bears have signed Austen Pleasants to the Practice Squad. He's a 6.7 330lb OT who went undrafted out of Ohio. He played 1 game for the Panthers in 2021 and 1 for the Chargers in 2023. In 10 offensive snaps, all with the Chargers, he apparently gave up 2 pressures. Let's hope the OT situation doesn't get any worse...
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* sigh *

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Moriarty wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 2:11 pm
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 2:01 pm For what it's worth, PFF grades and rankings 6 weeks into the season...
  • Braxton Jones: 71.4 (26th)
  • Darnell Wright: 70.4 (29th)
  • Cam Robinson: 69.2 (32nd)

Even moreso:

The best season of Cam's career and the worst of Braxton's are pretty much equal (69).
And, (b), the Bears already spent a Day Two pick to acquire an OT they have high hopes for, but don't know what he can do yet. Why would they immediately spend another to get another?
The Vikings just traded for Cam Robinson.

The Jaguars will get a 2026 fifth-round choice that could become a fourth-round pick based on playing time.

The Vikings will also get a 2026 seventh-round pick, which could disappear based on playing time.

Robinson's current PFF rating has barely changed: 69.4 and still 32nd.
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dplank wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:11 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:23 pm A look at Amegadjie's first outing:



Too much of a positive spin in my opinion.

For those interested, PFF have given him an initial 49.8 grade.
Good stuff here, thx for sharing. His arm length is incredible and he's very quick with his feet as the guy kept pointing out. I saw him get beat a few times in the limited snaps I saw of the game and drew the wrong conclusion - I thought he was getting physically beat but it looked more like confusion more than anything else. Which is understandable in his first action and makes me feel a lot better than just getting manhandled or something.
A lot of people were making that mistake.

When I was watching the game, I immediately picked up on the issue was Kiran was either not knowing who to block or blocking the wrong guy. But when he did make the right block, he was mauling people.
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DNPs: Kiran Amegadjie (calf), Jaquan Brisker (concussion), Kyler Gordon (hamstring), Braxton Jones (knee), Montez Sweat (shin)

LIMITED: Ryan Bates (shoulder), Teven Jenkins (knee)

FULL: Larry Borom (ankle)

Therefore I'm guessing we've got

Borom-Tev-Kramer-Pryor-Wright
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crueltyabc wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:30 pm DNPs: Kiran Amegadjie (calf), Jaquan Brisker (concussion), Kyler Gordon (hamstring), Braxton Jones (knee), Montez Sweat (shin)

LIMITED: Ryan Bates (shoulder), Teven Jenkins (knee)

FULL: Larry Borom (ankle)

Therefore I'm guessing we've got

Borom-Tev-Kramer-Pryor-Wright
Kramer in for Shelton?
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So after all that, we're just starting a new LT in Borom? Glad to see Tev on track to play again, he's gutting it out and trying to make it happen each week. At what point does Kiran get the dreaded "injury prone" label that he'll never shake? Man, Borom at LT scares the hell out of me. I'd almost rather shift Pryor over there and give Davis or Bates the start at RG.
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Sounds to me like it's time to thrill the nation with the T formation.
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wab wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:34 pm
crueltyabc wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:30 pm DNPs: Kiran Amegadjie (calf), Jaquan Brisker (concussion), Kyler Gordon (hamstring), Braxton Jones (knee), Montez Sweat (shin)

LIMITED: Ryan Bates (shoulder), Teven Jenkins (knee)

FULL: Larry Borom (ankle)

Therefore I'm guessing we've got

Borom-Tev-Kramer-Pryor-Wright
Kramer in for Shelton?
LOL oops forgot about Shelton.

If Borom is the only sub and he's next to his buddy Tev I feel pretty good about that line. If Tev can't go it gets very iffy
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spudbear wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:02 pm Feel bad for Murray if the torn pec is true. Felt like he added depth to the roster but he didn't have much of a chance to show his ability in a game.
With Murray out they went to Kramer at LG since Tev was out with an injury. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but for Kramer to take his FB dive at the goal line Tev had to come back in at LG.

So you have a gimpy player in the middle of a scrum with many large men crashing down on him, and it was further compounded when Kramer fumbled next to (behind?) Jenkins. It looked like in the melee Jenkins got bent back as his legs were trapped. A man with back problems has his back bending the wrong way.

[if all of this is true and I believe it is]
How can a coach call this play knowing they're putting Jenkins at the point of attack? Did they promise Kramer they'd run this play when it was available? Did they think it was the best play to run at that time? People are debating whether Stevenson should be benched for a game, but this bonehead play has the potential to take out Jenkins for the rest of the season. Maybe career? Again this shows a lack of awareness by the HC not having the right personnel on the field.

The smart move would have been to keep Kramer at LG, Tev on the bench and run right over Pryor with RoJo. Which is what they did for the second TD. I don't have access to All-22 so if someone can verify this sequence of events leading up to the Kramer fumble I'd appreciate it.
The play call was insane.

But if you are telling me you can't depend on Tev to be out there - or to run behind him (the supposed main strength of his game) - Then he needs to be gone in the offseason
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dplank wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 7:05 pm * sigh *

There is a reason the Vikes got him for basically Free

This is a terrible Clay Harbor call. This is Year 8 (!) for Cam in the NFL. He's never actually been Good in Pass Pro - but Glimpses! ....For an OL in Year 8. When the key part of the position is consistency. You can Flash as a Pass Rusher - not as a Pass Protector.

Apparently Jags even had to pay down some of the remaining money on Cam's deal too. Ouch.

Jacksonville has a lot of highly paid guys - who aren't all that great.
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I've watched this through a few times focusing on different linemen. A warning though, there are a couple of sections where the same series of plays is repeated.

Is it just me or does Wright look lackadaisical far too often? The first couple of plays are prime examples of what I mean.

In pass pro he often seems to feel his job is over after making initial contact as if he has a clock in his head where he thinks he only has to hold up for a couple of seconds. If his man manages to disengage from him that's it. There's no effort made to reengage, no playing through to the whistle, no looking for extra work. He just stands around until the play is over. Also for a big, strong guy he doesn't dominate or play with a nasty streak. He looks more enthusiastic when run blocking. To his credit his combo-block on the final TD is excellent. Overall I'm increasingly disappointed with him.

Aside from a couple of plays where he didn't seem to know his assignment Amegadie's biggest problem looked to my uneducated eye to be his initial kick-step which didn't get him out wide enough or fast enough. He was also sometimes a beat slow off the snap. As a result of these issues he had some struggles with edge rushers attacking his outside shoulder and wasn't able to push them as deep as necessary to avoid Caleb feeling pressure and being forced to step up. His effort couldn't be faulted though.

There were some other communication issues too. On a couple of occasions Jenkins engaged in a double-team with Shelton and left a free rusher to his left. I cannot believe he would have done that unless he expected someone else to be there to pick up the rusher.

Outside of a couple of plays Shelton seemed to have a solid game. Pryor didn't help him on one play (5:22 mark) where he was beaten because Pryor stepped forward off the snap and was 2 yards ahead of the rest of the O-line who all dropped back. His assignment was clearly to lend a hand to Wright initially and then to Shelton but he was completely out of position and ended up facing his own end zone unable to do anything. Despite his attempt to stick with his man, Shelton was beaten and Williams was tackled from behind as he scrambled forward barely getting a pass off before his knees hit the turf.

As a unit there's a lack of cohesion and it gets very messy. Obviously all the injuries as the game progressed didn't help.

The only one with all the attributes to dominate (strength, power, technique and temperament) is Jenkins and he can't do it on every play. There's just no edge to the group, no fire. They allow defensive fronts to overwhelm them instead.
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wab wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:30 am
dplank wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:11 am

Good stuff here, thx for sharing. His arm length is incredible and he's very quick with his feet as the guy kept pointing out. I saw him get beat a few times in the limited snaps I saw of the game and drew the wrong conclusion - I thought he was getting physically beat but it looked more like confusion more than anything else. Which is understandable in his first action and makes me feel a lot better than just getting manhandled or something.
After going back and watching some of his snaps, I really think there might be something to work with. He's incredibly athletic and strong.
There was a snap early in the tape that told me a lot about Amegadjie. It was the quick out route to Odunze. The DE starts up the field, KA gets out of his stance, but doesn't reach for the defender, or try and make contact. He waits until the DE is committed to bending the edge, and then just pushes him out and around the pocket. I think a lot of young and mediocre OT try to engage physically as soon as possible, and end up exposing themselves to counter moves, or they just reach too far and get off balance.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 8:18 pm
wab wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:30 am

After going back and watching some of his snaps, I really think there might be something to work with. He's incredibly athletic and strong.
There was a snap early in the tape that told me a lot about Amegadjie. It was the quick out route to Odunze. The DE starts up the field, KA gets out of his stance, but doesn't reach for the defender, or try and make contact. He waits until the DE is committed to bending the edge, and then just pushes him out and around the pocket. I think a lot of young and mediocre OT try to engage physically as soon as possible, and end up exposing themselves to counter moves, or they just reach too far and get off balance.
You reach for contact when you’re lazy or slow footed. It is a common coaching point for young OL and you’re right he displayed really good technique out there.
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dplank wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2024 2:49 pm
Moriarty wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2024 1:42 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by giving up on him prior to Week 1 of last year.
I haven't said I wanted to do that previously or here.


As for whether he has enough of a chance to change minds significantly before free agency...well, that's just the breaks. Convincing someone something's changed takes time, and there's a limited, unchangeable amount of time before the decision comes due. If we could agree with him on a 1 yr prove it deal to give him more time to prove he's able to stay healthy, I'd love to buy that extra time at a fair price. But the Tags are almost certainly going to be too high for something like that (25 or 23M). And he's probably going to get offers with decent guarantees.
Could/should we have traded him for something last off-season, if we're afraid to commit? Maybe. Depends on what offers you could get. But at the same time, with our OL as shaky as it's been and a rookie QB - 11 games of good play with continuity at a really cheap price is valuable. It's only when you get to 16M for maybe only 11 games of good play that gets worrisome.
Is it impossible the rest of the season could play out in a way where he'd be willing to return on a deal I'd be fine with? No. Just unlikely. The problem is that, the healthier he stays: he may be driving what I'm willing to pay up, but he's also driving up what he'll want and what other people will be willing to pay up, too. Which goes up more? We'll see what other teams are willing to put out, but I'm guessing someone else will gamble more on his health than I'm willing to.
How high are you willing to go with him?
I can’t go to 20M, but certainly would do 15M and anything in between there is in the “tough call” range but I’d likely lean yes because I’m an OL freak. Plus we need more help on our OL, so losing our best player and creating another need seems like a bad idea to me.

As for why I said you already decided before Week 1 last year, it wasn’t an attack line I was just running out your logic. Which honestly you just re-confirmed. You said that he wouldn’t have enough time to change your mind, right? So it’s settled then , no matter what he does there isn’t enough time for you. Even if he played the next 13 games last year after return from PUP and all 17 this year. That means you’ve given up on him as a Bear, how can it not? Help me understand
Just curious but has another injury perhaps changed this calculus?
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dplank wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:51 pm So after all that, we're just starting a new LT in Borom? Glad to see Tev on track to play again, he's gutting it out and trying to make it happen each week. At what point does Kiran get the dreaded "injury prone" label that he'll never shake? Man, Borom at LT scares the hell out of me. I'd almost rather shift Pryor over there and give Davis or Bates the start at RG.
We don't have to do that RE: Kiran. I understand you are Ride or Die for Tev so you get to say comments like this as if Tev isn't in Double Digits for injuries - but Tev wasn't treated unfairly in terms of the injury analysis and No one is jumping to paint Kiran with an injury brush.

Tev absolutely is gutting it out. I don't think anyone can doubt that.

I guess the question is - is it good that he has to do that - again and again? I come down on the side that it isn't

As far as resigning him - I've yet to see a compelling argument that paying him more and guaranteeing him more money will somehow fix the injuries.
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RichH55 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 10:58 pm
dplank wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2024 2:49 pm I can’t go to 20M, but certainly would do 15M and anything in between there is in the “tough call” range but I’d likely lean yes because I’m an OL freak. Plus we need more help on our OL, so losing our best player and creating another need seems like a bad idea to me.

As for why I said you already decided before Week 1 last year, it wasn’t an attack line I was just running out your logic. Which honestly you just re-confirmed. You said that he wouldn’t have enough time to change your mind, right? So it’s settled then , no matter what he does there isn’t enough time for you. Even if he played the next 13 games last year after return from PUP and all 17 this year. That means you’ve given up on him as a Bear, how can it not? Help me understand
Just curious but has another injury perhaps changed this calculus?
It's an interesting question. Jenkins has continued to play through his latest ailments and although it was only a walkthrough today he was listed as limited rather than DNP, which suggests he may be able to play on Sunday. Will him toughing it out and remaining available be seen by Poles as a significant positive that outweighs the fact that he's continued to get banged up? He's still the best OL on the team by some margin. (For those who put stock in PFF, they currently rank him as the 10th best OG in the NFL)
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