Bears have fired Matt Eberflus

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malk wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 4:51 pm
Moriarty wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:02 pm

And these veteran players are sometimes tutoring the coaches in how things should have been done.
So I would agree that they very likely 'knew' that 'rule' ahead of time.

I would describe the reasons it happens anyway as:
a) Unprofessional/immature player
b) They're so frustrated that their emotions get the best of them and they vent
c) They want their unhappiness to be widely known and to generate pressure


I don't think a applies to the players like Byard, so I would focus on b and c
I'm not quite sure what he bold bit means?
There's been instances of players saying how coaches ought to be doing things, where the coaches shouldn't need to be told those things.

The 2 that come to mind right away are
Lewis telling Waldron not to be afraid of calling players/mistakes out.
Players saying how Eberflus' strategy at the end of last game was a mess.
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Moriarty wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:58 pm It is new - in 2 senses.

1) Execs doing their jobs properly.
2) I don't think they were doing research on Eberflus replacements in the middle of last year, do you?
I certainly won't argue with the first!

With regard to the second, after an 0-4 start last year I wouldn't be surprised if Poles was at least beginning to think about it. He did his due diligence on QBs the previous year despite deciding to keep Fields. It's all part and parcel of the job. A competent GM has to prepare for different outcomes. It's just a case of how much time and resource he dedicates to each possibility at different stages of the season.

The article you posted makes clear that no decision on Eberflus's future has been made. They're just ensuring they're prepared if it does become necessary to move on from him.
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Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:47 pm
Yikes. What was that about coaches never owning up to their mistakes again?
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 9:45 amThe situation is largely one of Eberflus's own making, but there's little he can do about that now. The only thing he can do is try and get his team ready to play and win on Sunday and that's what he's desperately trying to do whilst maintaining, at least outwardly, an even keel. His job depends on getting his team ready for future games not on the game that's just gone.
I know he doesn't owe them anything but Flus could have avoided all this media attention by just saying in the post-game presser anything showing that he and Waldron shared the blame for the loss. Just something like, "We didn't execute the way we wanted and that goes for the coaching staff and the players. This was a winnable game and we can't afford to make mistakes." The media went after him because he doubled and tripled down that he made the right call in giving the Commanders that easy 13 yard gain in the penultimate play, saying it didn't matter, when anyone with any degree of football knowledge knows that's false.
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Anyone honestly feel that barring a total collapse last 10 that thing change? I feel like even 3-7 finish if Caleb looks good and games are close it still gets us to lather rinse repeat regardless of lack of situational awareness and other HC 101 deficiencies. I get Flus was tank commander year 1 but honestly feel like there’s been nothing that says this is a guy who holds the Lombardi. Maybe the players perform regardless of situation because of him, but maybe it’s because that’s what they’ve done since Pop Warner.
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BearsFanInMN wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:42 pm Anyone honestly feel that barring a total collapse last 10 that thing change? I feel like even 3-7 finish if Caleb looks good and games are close it still gets us to lather rinse repeat regardless of lack of situational awareness and other HC 101 deficiencies. I get Flus was tank commander year 1 but honestly feel like there’s been nothing that says this is a guy who holds the Lombardi. Maybe the players perform regardless of situation because of him, but maybe it’s because that’s what they’ve done since Pop Warner.
Sadly I think you’re right. The leaders have as little awareness as Flus does.
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He's going into the last year of his contract. He's either getting an extension or fired. Certainly looking like its fired.

The story I heard is Poles and Warren left the box after the Bears TD believing they had won. How do you think Poles, and Warren who wanted to cancel Eberflus last year if rumors or true, felt when they stepped off that elevator to hear they lost? Then to see how they lost.

If there is one thing that will get you fired as a Bears coach it's embarrassing the McCaskeys. And that game was an embarrassment. I'm sure George isn't living convos with other owners right now about how they lost that game.

Eberflus is gone baring a magical end to the season. And that ain't gonna happen.
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dplank wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 9:29 pm
Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:47 pm
Yikes. What was that about coaches never owning up to their mistakes again?
I don't think its a great sign for society (or Sports Message Boards) that we read into Tweets now like its the Zapruder Film


I think the number of comments in a Presser that actually matter is relatively small - but Fans (Media too, but more so fans) think that number is probably 10,000 times as much than it really is

Also - a pet peeve on top of a pet peeve - When a Player/Coach/Whomever says something nice about someone (usually, though not always) like they like their new coach - It's NOT usually a Dig at their pervious situation/coach/team/family
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HurricaneBear wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 6:21 am He's going into the last year of his contract. He's either getting an extension or fired. Certainly looking like its fired.

The story I heard is Poles and Warren left the box after the Bears TD believing they had won. How do you think Poles, and Warren who wanted to cancel Eberflus last year if rumors or true, felt when they stepped off that elevator to hear they lost? Then to see how they lost.

If there is one thing that will get you fired as a Bears coach it's embarrassing the McCaskeys. And that game was an embarrassment. I'm sure George isn't living convos with other owners right now about how they lost that game.

Eberflus is gone baring a magical end to the season. And that ain't gonna happen.
I say this oddly as someone who still holds a grudge against Marion Barber II....

But this all smacks of recency bias IMHO
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RichH55 wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 6:52 am
HurricaneBear wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 6:21 am He's going into the last year of his contract. He's either getting an extension or fired. Certainly looking like its fired.

The story I heard is Poles and Warren left the box after the Bears TD believing they had won. How do you think Poles, and Warren who wanted to cancel Eberflus last year if rumors or true, felt when they stepped off that elevator to hear they lost? Then to see how they lost.

If there is one thing that will get you fired as a Bears coach it's embarrassing the McCaskeys. And that game was an embarrassment. I'm sure George isn't living convos with other owners right now about how they lost that game.

Eberflus is gone baring a magical end to the season. And that ain't gonna happen.
I say this oddly as someone who still holds a grudge against Marion Barber II....

But this all smacks of recency bias IMHO
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RichH55 wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 6:52 am
HurricaneBear wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 6:21 am He's going into the last year of his contract. He's either getting an extension or fired. Certainly looking like its fired.

The story I heard is Poles and Warren left the box after the Bears TD believing they had won. How do you think Poles, and Warren who wanted to cancel Eberflus last year if rumors or true, felt when they stepped off that elevator to hear they lost? Then to see how they lost.

If there is one thing that will get you fired as a Bears coach it's embarrassing the McCaskeys. And that game was an embarrassment. I'm sure George isn't living convos with other owners right now about how they lost that game.

Eberflus is gone baring a magical end to the season. And that ain't gonna happen.
I say this oddly as someone who still holds a grudge against Marion Barber II....

But this all smacks of recency bias IMHO
I do think he either gets extended or gets fired. And it all depends on how the team performs in the division
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Rusty Trombagent wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 10:30 am A funny thing about this whole freak out is that people were so critical of Flus for not falling on his sword for messing up the last 2 plays, and it's like, show me a head coach who has EVER come out and admit they were wrong. It's is a frequent, hilarious occurrence for the press to ask a coach "you called a play that didnt work, in retrospect would you have rather called a different play" and 100% of coaches will just say "i like the playcall, i'd call it 100x out of 100."

Coaches will only walk those statements back once they get a talking to from management, much like we saw with Flus. This is such normalized coach behavior that I dont know how you can single Flus out for that.

And then you see a fraud like rex ryan jumping on the outrage train, and then the fucking grumble lord himself who would rather murder everyone in the room instead of admit he made a mistake piling on, and man this is just an embarrassing time to be a football fan. Even more than usual!
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dplank wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 8:00 am
We moved on from Justin Fields not because he sucked but because he was not good enough to win big with. The same can be said for Matt Eberflus. He's not "The One".
This right here is the key point. If you wanted to move on from Fields because he wasn't a SB caliber QB even though he was 5-2 down the stretch last year, I don't see how you can defend Flus because we're 4-3 now. We've only beaten bad teams. You're either striving for SB / greatness or you aren't, that applies at GM, HC, QB - and the weak link right now IMO is HC.

He's going to need to go at least 3-3, maybe 4-2 in the NFCN for me to want to keep him around next season.
And as it stands today having seen what we saw last Sunday do you honestly believe he has any chance of doing that at all? We may eek out home wins against Minny and Detroit but I'll bet a buck right now GB takes two from us again because much like years past when Lovie coached GB eats zone coverages like Flus uses for a snack and LaFleur is 10x the HC Flus is. When that happens it won't just be torches fans come with it's be a rope and a gallows.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:32 am
Bearfacts wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:44 am Fortunately in Eric Washington and a vet defensive staff we have the DC and others we need to keep a top ten defense. Extend them so we can keep them in place but let Flus and Waldron go.
o-pus #40 in B major wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:18 am Poles needs to get a proven OC for the Bears HC and please don't change the D to a new scheme.
Sorry fellas, but if Flus goes so does the whole staff. Poles can't saddle a new head coach with coordinators and assistants that are not of his choosing or insist he runs a particular defensive scheme.
It might have been better to have said at least that option will be there. But I don't believe it would be a 100% certainty a new HC would choose to replace Washington as DC. He's very well respected around the NFL and he and Travis Smith have done a fine job improving the pass rush. There are other very good coaches on that side of the ball as well like John Hoke who coaches the CB.

IMHO the proper approach upon interviewing prospects is to get into who that person would want on their staff including members of the existing staff. I'm certain a new HC will want to bring some of his guys with him but it's rarely an entire coaching staff since some of "his guys" will be under contract elsewhere. Any new HC hire has to know his job #1 is to get an offense established as fast as possible and continue CW ascension.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:32 am
Sorry fellas, but if Flus goes so does the whole staff. Poles can't saddle a new head coach with coordinators and assistants that are not of his choosing or insist he runs a particular defensive scheme.
Oh please please please let this be true, don’t get my hopes up
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So I've been thinking about the penultimate play against the Commanders and trying to fathom why on earth Eberflus said giving up 13 yards prior to the Hail Mary didn't matter.

Whatever we think of him as a head coach it's pretty much universally accepted that he is an excellent DC. He therefore must have had a good reason for his strategy.

I'm not saying I agree with it but I think I may have figured out his reasoning. It's a long explanation so please bear with me.

It comes down to Eberflus's love of analytics, which he's spoken about using in play call decision making multiple times since he's been in Chicago, and to a lesser extent the fact that scoring a touchdown was not the only way Washington could win the game.

Consider two scenarios for that second-to-last play.

Scenario 1: Allow the quick out as Eberflus did.
  • Outcome 1: The pass falls incomplete and the clock stops.
    Final Play: The Commanders throw a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 35 yard line.
  • Outcome 2 (what actually happened): The pass is caught and the receiver gets out of bounds stopping the clock.
    Final Play: The Commanders attempt a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 48 yard line.
Scenario 2: Defend the quick out.
  • Outcome 1a: The Commanders attempt the pass anyway, it falls incomplete and the clock stops.
    Final Play: The Commanders throw a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 35 yard line.
  • Outcome 1b: The pass is caught and the receiver gets out of bounds stopping the clock.
    Final Play: The Commanders attempt a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 48 yard line.
  • Outcome 1c: The pass is caught but the receiver doesn't get of bounds.
    The clock expires and the Bears win.

    Any variation of this outcome is highly improbable because, as Eberflus himself said after the game, if the Bears defend the quick out then the Commanders are not going to attempt the throw.
  • Outcome 2a: With the quick out negated by the defense, the receiver turns it up the sideline and Daniels tries to hit him with the pass falling incomplete.
    Final Play: The Commanders throw a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 35 yard line.
  • Outcome 2b: With the quick out negated by the defense, the receiver turns it up the sideline, beats the coverage, Daniels hits him and he steps out of bounds around the Bears 40 yard line with 1 second remaining.
    Final Play: Depending on the exact yardage gained and the kicker's range, the Commanders either attempt a long game-tying field goal to take the game into overtime or throw a Hail Mary snapping the ball from a spot closer than their own 48 yard line.

    This outcome is unlikely. Not only would the throw be that much more difficult but the time would have been very tight. The Commanders would have risked the clock expiring before the play was complete. Also, with regard to the FG, the Washington kicker had already missed from 51 yards earlier in the game and has a poor record with long kicks. Although he made a career long 55 yarder earlier in the season in Baltimore, he's 3 of 9 for his career on kicks over 50 yards.
  • Outcome 3: Both the quick out and the deeper sideline throw are negated by the defense so the play converts to a Hail Mary with the ball having been snapped at the Commanders 35 yard line. The defense has to adjust mid play and try to get everyone in position to defend it.
So in almost every scenario and in every like one the Commanders would have ended up throwing a Hail Mary.

The chance that the Bears could have ended the game on the penultimate play without it converting to a Hail Mary was virtually non-existent. If they covered the quick out the Commanders wouldn't have thrown it, as Eberflus said.

On the other hand giving up the quick out negated any outside chance of the Commanders being able to attempt a game tying field goal to send the game into overtime.

Therefore when Eberflus said it would have come down to a Hail Mary regardless he's really not wrong. The only question is whether there was a significant advantage for the Commanders to be throwing the ball with the line of scrimmage on their 35 yard line or their 48 yard line.

Firstly bear in mind that Daniels completed a 61 yard bomb earlier in the game. On this one the ball was snapped at the Commanders 21 yard line, Daniels effortlessly threw it from 8 yards behind the line of scrimmage at the 13 yard line. It was caught at the Bears 31 yard line so it travelled 56 yards in the air. He'd already demonstrated, despite his rib injury, that he had the arm strength to launch the ball the required distance for the Hail Mary pretty much regardless of whether the out had been completed.

Secondly Daniels ended up throwing the Hail Mary from the 35 yard line, a full 13 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Had the out route not been completed he could still have ended up throwing the Hail Mary from much the same spot.

The assumption has been that it was a definite advantage to be closer on a Hail Mary and be making a shorter throw. Do the analytics Eberflus is so wedded to actually support that though?

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This graph only covers 2000 up until 2011, so it's dated. I couldn't find anything more current, but I'm sure NFL teams have the data. It does indicate though that there is essentially no significant difference in the probability of a successful Hail Mary for passes thrown anywhere between 50 and 70 yards. In fact if it's over 50 yards the probability of success is tiny.

Finally a couple of days ago ESPN reposted an article from 2019 about the strategies around Hail Mary's: https://www.espn.co.uk/nfl/story/_/id/2 ... -defend-it

It includes comments from Kirk Cousins and Aaron Rodgers about the mechanics and placement of the throw. They both talk about how careful the QB has to be not to throw too deep because you can't afford for the ball to end up thrown or tipped out the back of the end zone. They stress trajectory and accuracy of the throw rather than it just being a heave up the field.

The article also talks about how many pass rushers to send against a Hail Mary. At the time the article was written it states "Coaches have sent more than four pass-rushers on only 15 of the 193 Hail Mary throws (7.8%). On the other hand, they have sent three or fewer rushers on 109 of them (56.5%), accounting for nine touchdowns against."

So Eberflus sending no more than 3 pass rushers is the most common strategy for defending Hail Marys. Furthermore the probability of completing one successfully is around 10%. 9/109 is only 8.26% which suggests it might be the better option although the small sample size for blitzing coupled with other factors, notably how far the ball has to travel, means it's probably not possible to reach any firm conclusion.

Anyway that's my explanation for Flus's comments and strategy regarding that penultimate play. I can understand why he favoured defending a certain Hail Mary over a play that would likely convert into a Hail Mary.

What I cannot understand is why he didn't call a timeout to discuss it with his players, especially when he was actually on the field trying to communicate with them just before the snap. He was even being pulled back off the field by his QB who was worried about him getting a penalty!

I also cannot understand why he didn't call a timeout before the Hail Mary either to ensure everyone was dialled in and focused on what they needed to do.
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Bearfacts wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:17 pm
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:32 am



Sorry fellas, but if Flus goes so does the whole staff. Poles can't saddle a new head coach with coordinators and assistants that are not of his choosing or insist he runs a particular defensive scheme.
It might have been better to have said at least that option will be there. But I don't believe it would be a 100% certainty a new HC would choose to replace Washington as DC. He's very well respected around the NFL and he and Travis Smith have done a fine job improving the pass rush. There are other very good coaches on that side of the ball as well like John Hoke who coaches the CB.

IMHO the proper approach upon interviewing prospects is to get into who that person would want on their staff including members of the existing staff. I'm certain a new HC will want to bring some of his guys with him but it's rarely an entire coaching staff since some of "his guys" will be under contract elsewhere. Any new HC hire has to know his job #1 is to get an offense established as fast as possible and continue CW ascension.
Agree there’s some good staff. Hoke is good. I think Washington is big part of Dexter (and others) development. I’d replace Waldron with Joseph yesterday. But yeah new HC will bring in some of their guys.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 10:57 pm So I've been thinking about the penultimate play against the Commanders and trying to fathom why on earth Eberflus said giving up 13 yards prior to the Hail Mary didn't matter.

Whatever we think of him as a head coach it's pretty much universally accepted that he is an excellent DC. He therefore must have had a good reason for his strategy.

I'm not saying I agree with it but I think I may have figured out his reasoning. It's a long explanation so please bear with me.

It comes down to Eberflus's love of analytics, which he's spoken about using in play call decision making multiple times since he's been in Chicago, and to a lesser extent the fact that scoring a touchdown was not the only way Washington could win the game.

Consider two scenarios for that second-to-last play.

Scenario 1: Allow the quick out as Eberflus did.
  • Outcome 1: The pass falls incomplete and the clock stops.
    Final Play: The Commanders throw a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 35 yard line.
  • Outcome 2 (what actually happened): The pass is caught and the receiver gets out of bounds stopping the clock.
    Final Play: The Commanders attempt a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 48 yard line.
Scenario 2: Defend the quick out.
  • Outcome 1a: The Commanders attempt the pass anyway, it falls incomplete and the clock stops.
    Final Play: The Commanders throw a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 35 yard line.
  • Outcome 1b: The pass is caught and the receiver gets out of bounds stopping the clock.
    Final Play: The Commanders attempt a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 48 yard line.
  • Outcome 1c: The pass is caught but the receiver doesn't get of bounds.
    The clock expires and the Bears win.

    Any variation of this outcome is highly improbable because, as Eberflus himself said after the game, if the Bears defend the quick out then the Commanders are not going to attempt the throw.
  • Outcome 2a: With the quick out negated by the defense, the receiver turns it up the sideline and Daniels tries to hit him with the pass falling incomplete.
    Final Play: The Commanders throw a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 35 yard line.
  • Outcome 2b: With the quick out negated by the defense, the receiver turns it up the sideline, beats the coverage, Daniels hits him and he steps out of bounds around the Bears 40 yard line with 1 second remaining.
    Final Play: Depending on the exact yardage gained and the kicker's range, the Commanders either attempt a long game-tying field goal to take the game into overtime or throw a Hail Mary snapping the ball from a spot closer than their own 48 yard line.

    This outcome is unlikely. Not only would the throw be that much more difficult but the time would have been very tight. The Commanders would have risked the clock expiring before the play was complete. Also, with regard to the FG, the Washington kicker had already missed from 51 yards earlier in the game and has a poor record with long kicks. Although he made a career long 55 yarder earlier in the season in Baltimore, he's 3 of 9 for his career on kicks over 50 yards.
  • Outcome 3: Both the quick out and the deeper sideline throw are negated by the defense so the play converts to a Hail Mary with the ball having been snapped at the Commanders 35 yard line. The defense has to adjust mid play and try to get everyone in position to defend it.
So in almost every scenario and in every like one the Commanders would have ended up throwing a Hail Mary.


I think this is the wrong conclusion to what you’ve written.
They’re not throwing a HM from their own 35 yd line, they wouldn’t reach. They barely reached from their 48 yard line, the receivers would have needed even longer to get in position and you just rush the QB.

If you’re into analytics, you play the percentage play. What’s the chance of HM success from 65 yards away vs chance of success from 52 yards away.
Both tiny but 65 yards away, with a QB who has a rib injury? That’s statistically harder to achieve and easier to defend.


Outcome 1b - this happened and the clock stopped on 2 seconds.

Therefore, if you’re not going to attempt this play, the QB and receivers literally have 1 second extra to “get up the sideline” to set up an HM or a kick.

1 second!
An Olympic sprinter in perfect conditions can run about 10 metres in that time. Not a WR dodging players in full kit. How far up the touch line is he getting in 1 second? You’re giving him 18 yards which makes him twice as fast as Usain Bolt in perfect conditions running in a straight line. Oh and he’s being covered so catching the ball is not as easy as “wide open player stood on touch line - easy throw”.

Outcomes 2b and 3 are almost impossible to achieve so those are the outcomes you try and force.

Outcome 1b is the easiest to achieve, so defend it to the max.

I appreciate the effort.
However, still, why no time out? Having f-d up penultimate play. Get the players together, calm everyone down and make sure they’re switched on.

He didn’t do that, he literally made it as easy as possible for the Commandos. So he got the result he schemed for.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 10:57 pm So I've been thinking about the penultimate play against the Commanders and trying to fathom why on earth Eberflus said giving up 13 yards prior to the Hail Mary didn't matter.

Whatever we think of him as a head coach it's pretty much universally accepted that he is an excellent DC. He therefore must have had a good reason for his strategy.

I'm not saying I agree with it but I think I may have figured out his reasoning. It's a long explanation so please bear with me.

It comes down to Eberflus's love of analytics, which he's spoken about using in play call decision making multiple times since he's been in Chicago, and to a lesser extent the fact that scoring a touchdown was not the only way Washington could win the game.

Consider two scenarios for that second-to-last play.

Scenario 1: Allow the quick out as Eberflus did.
  • Outcome 1: The pass falls incomplete and the clock stops.
    Final Play: The Commanders throw a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 35 yard line.
  • Outcome 2 (what actually happened): The pass is caught and the receiver gets out of bounds stopping the clock.
    Final Play: The Commanders attempt a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 48 yard line.
Scenario 2: Defend the quick out.
  • Outcome 1a: The Commanders attempt the pass anyway, it falls incomplete and the clock stops.
    Final Play: The Commanders throw a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 35 yard line.
  • Outcome 1b: The pass is caught and the receiver gets out of bounds stopping the clock.
    Final Play: The Commanders attempt a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 48 yard line.
  • Outcome 1c: The pass is caught but the receiver doesn't get of bounds.
    The clock expires and the Bears win.

    Any variation of this outcome is highly improbable because, as Eberflus himself said after the game, if the Bears defend the quick out then the Commanders are not going to attempt the throw.
  • Outcome 2a: With the quick out negated by the defense, the receiver turns it up the sideline and Daniels tries to hit him with the pass falling incomplete.
    Final Play: The Commanders throw a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 35 yard line.
  • Outcome 2b: With the quick out negated by the defense, the receiver turns it up the sideline, beats the coverage, Daniels hits him and he steps out of bounds around the Bears 40 yard line with 1 second remaining.
    Final Play: Depending on the exact yardage gained and the kicker's range, the Commanders either attempt a long game-tying field goal to take the game into overtime or throw a Hail Mary snapping the ball from a spot closer than their own 48 yard line.

    This outcome is unlikely. Not only would the throw be that much more difficult but the time would have been very tight. The Commanders would have risked the clock expiring before the play was complete. Also, with regard to the FG, the Washington kicker had already missed from 51 yards earlier in the game and has a poor record with long kicks. Although he made a career long 55 yarder earlier in the season in Baltimore, he's 3 of 9 for his career on kicks over 50 yards.
  • Outcome 3: Both the quick out and the deeper sideline throw are negated by the defense so the play converts to a Hail Mary with the ball having been snapped at the Commanders 35 yard line. The defense has to adjust mid play and try to get everyone in position to defend it.
So in almost every scenario and in every like one the Commanders would have ended up throwing a Hail Mary.

The chance that the Bears could have ended the game on the penultimate play without it converting to a Hail Mary was virtually non-existent. If they covered the quick out the Commanders wouldn't have thrown it, as Eberflus said.

On the other hand giving up the quick out negated any outside chance of the Commanders being able to attempt a game tying field goal to send the game into overtime.

Therefore when Eberflus said it would have come down to a Hail Mary regardless he's really not wrong. The only question is whether there was a significant advantage for the Commanders to be throwing the ball with the line of scrimmage on their 35 yard line or their 48 yard line.

Firstly bear in mind that Daniels completed a 61 yard bomb earlier in the game. On this one the ball was snapped at the Commanders 21 yard line, Daniels effortlessly threw it from 8 yards behind the line of scrimmage at the 13 yard line. It was caught at the Bears 31 yard line so it travelled 56 yards in the air. He'd already demonstrated, despite his rib injury, that he had the arm strength to launch the ball the required distance for the Hail Mary pretty much regardless of whether the out had been completed.

Secondly Daniels ended up throwing the Hail Mary from the 35 yard line, a full 13 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Had the out route not been completed he could still have ended up throwing the Hail Mary from much the same spot.

The assumption has been that it was a definite advantage to be closer on a Hail Mary and be making a shorter throw. Do the analytics Eberflus is so wedded to actually support that though?

Image

This graph only covers 2000 up until 2011, so it's dated. I couldn't find anything more current, but I'm sure NFL teams have the data. It does indicate though that there is essentially no significant difference in the probability of a successful Hail Mary for passes thrown anywhere between 50 and 70 yards. In fact if it's over 50 yards the probability of success is tiny.

Finally a couple of days ago ESPN reposted an article from 2019 about the strategies around Hail Mary's: https://www.espn.co.uk/nfl/story/_/id/2 ... -defend-it

It includes comments from Kirk Cousins and Aaron Rodgers about the mechanics and placement of the throw. They both talk about how careful the QB has to be not to throw too deep because you can't afford for the ball to end up thrown or tipped out the back of the end zone. They stress trajectory and accuracy of the throw rather than it just being a heave up the field.

The article also talks about how many pass rushers to send against a Hail Mary. At the time the article was written it states "Coaches have sent more than four pass-rushers on only 15 of the 193 Hail Mary throws (7.8%). On the other hand, they have sent three or fewer rushers on 109 of them (56.5%), accounting for nine touchdowns against."

So Eberflus sending no more than 3 pass rushers is the most common strategy for defending Hail Marys. Furthermore the probability of completing one successfully is around 10%. 9/109 is only 8.26% which suggests it might be the better option although the small sample size for blitzing coupled with other factors, notably how far the ball has to travel, means it's probably not possible to reach any firm conclusion.

Anyway that's my explanation for Flus's comments and strategy regarding that penultimate play. I can understand why he favoured defending a certain Hail Mary over a play that would likely convert into a Hail Mary.

What I cannot understand is why he didn't call a timeout to discuss it with his players, especially when he was actually on the field trying to communicate with them just before the snap. He was even being pulled back off the field by his QB who was worried about him getting a penalty!

I also cannot understand why he didn't call a timeout before the Hail Mary either to ensure everyone was dialled in and focused on what they needed to do.
This is really good work HRS.
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 4:39 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 10:57 pm So I've been thinking about the penultimate play against the Commanders and trying to fathom why on earth Eberflus said giving up 13 yards prior to the Hail Mary didn't matter.

Whatever we think of him as a head coach it's pretty much universally accepted that he is an excellent DC. He therefore must have had a good reason for his strategy.

I'm not saying I agree with it but I think I may have figured out his reasoning. It's a long explanation so please bear with me.

It comes down to Eberflus's love of analytics, which he's spoken about using in play call decision making multiple times since he's been in Chicago, and to a lesser extent the fact that scoring a touchdown was not the only way Washington could win the game.

Consider two scenarios for that second-to-last play.

Scenario 1: Allow the quick out as Eberflus did.
  • Outcome 1: The pass falls incomplete and the clock stops.
    Final Play: The Commanders throw a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 35 yard line.
  • Outcome 2 (what actually happened): The pass is caught and the receiver gets out of bounds stopping the clock.
    Final Play: The Commanders attempt a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 48 yard line.
Scenario 2: Defend the quick out.
  • Outcome 1a: The Commanders attempt the pass anyway, it falls incomplete and the clock stops.
    Final Play: The Commanders throw a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 35 yard line.
  • Outcome 1b: The pass is caught and the receiver gets out of bounds stopping the clock.
    Final Play: The Commanders attempt a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 48 yard line.
  • Outcome 1c: The pass is caught but the receiver doesn't get of bounds.
    The clock expires and the Bears win.

    Any variation of this outcome is highly improbable because, as Eberflus himself said after the game, if the Bears defend the quick out then the Commanders are not going to attempt the throw.
  • Outcome 2a: With the quick out negated by the defense, the receiver turns it up the sideline and Daniels tries to hit him with the pass falling incomplete.
    Final Play: The Commanders throw a Hail Mary, snapping the ball from their own 35 yard line.
  • Outcome 2b: With the quick out negated by the defense, the receiver turns it up the sideline, beats the coverage, Daniels hits him and he steps out of bounds around the Bears 40 yard line with 1 second remaining.
    Final Play: Depending on the exact yardage gained and the kicker's range, the Commanders either attempt a long game-tying field goal to take the game into overtime or throw a Hail Mary snapping the ball from a spot closer than their own 48 yard line.

    This outcome is unlikely. Not only would the throw be that much more difficult but the time would have been very tight. The Commanders would have risked the clock expiring before the play was complete. Also, with regard to the FG, the Washington kicker had already missed from 51 yards earlier in the game and has a poor record with long kicks. Although he made a career long 55 yarder earlier in the season in Baltimore, he's 3 of 9 for his career on kicks over 50 yards.
  • Outcome 3: Both the quick out and the deeper sideline throw are negated by the defense so the play converts to a Hail Mary with the ball having been snapped at the Commanders 35 yard line. The defense has to adjust mid play and try to get everyone in position to defend it.
So in almost every scenario and in every like one the Commanders would have ended up throwing a Hail Mary.


I think this is the wrong conclusion to what you’ve written.
They’re not throwing a HM from their own 35 yd line, they wouldn’t reach. They barely reached from their 48 yard line, the receivers would have needed even longer to get in position and you just rush the QB.

If you’re into analytics, you play the percentage play. What’s the chance of HM success from 65 yards away vs chance of success from 52 yards away.
Both tiny but 65 yards away, with a QB who has a rib injury? That’s statistically harder to achieve and easier to defend.


Outcome 1b - this happened and the clock stopped on 2 seconds.

Therefore, if you’re not going to attempt this play, the QB and receivers literally have 1 second extra to “get up the sideline” to set up an HM or a kick.

1 second!
An Olympic sprinter in perfect conditions can run about 10 metres in that time. Not a WR dodging players in full kit. How far up the touch line is he getting in 1 second? You’re giving him 18 yards which makes him twice as fast as Usain Bolt in perfect conditions running in a straight line. Oh and he’s being covered so catching the ball is not as easy as “wide open player stood on touch line - easy throw”.

Outcomes 2b and 3 are almost impossible to achieve so those are the outcomes you try and force.

Outcome 1b is the easiest to achieve, so defend it to the max.

I appreciate the effort.
However, still, why no time out? Having f-d up penultimate play. Get the players together, calm everyone down and make sure they’re switched on.

He didn’t do that, he literally made it as easy as possible for the Commandos. So he got the result he schemed for.
Agreed Ditka. If the Bears would have defended the out route, and it went incomplete, there is no Hail Mary. They would have tried some hook and ladder thing, or throw it to a receiver who then throws it all the way across the field. If you defend the out route on the 2nd to last play, the chances of the Commanders getting to ball to the end zone in the air, drop to zero.
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Correctamundo. And it seems every former coach in the league sees it the same way. He screwed up, plain and simple, and he needs to own up to it and learn from it.
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 4:39 am I think this is the wrong conclusion to what you’ve written.
They’re not throwing a HM from their own 35 yd line, they wouldn’t reach. They barely reached from their 48 yard line, the receivers would have needed even longer to get in position and you just rush the QB.

If you’re into analytics, you play the percentage play. What’s the chance of HM success from 65 yards away vs chance of success from 52 yards away.
Both tiny but 65 yards away, with a QB who has a rib injury? That’s statistically harder to achieve and easier to defend.
I'm not trying to reach a conclusion, I'm just trying to understand Eberflus's comments and strategy. Neither am I attempting to justify them.

I know they wouldn't have been throwing from the line of scrimmage, but we only know that point for certain and cannot be sure what the QB's drop prior to the throw might have been.

That's why I specifically stated where the ball would be snapped from and pointed out where Daniels threw both the earlier bomb and the final Hail Mary.

You are wrong that they wouldn't reach from the 35 yard line because that's exactly where Daniels ultimately did make that final throw from. If the play had started from further back he could still have stepped right up to the line of scrimmage to launch the ball rather than do so from a whopping 13 yards behind the line.

You're also making an assumption that Daniels rib injury meant he couldn't launch the Hail Mary from further back, but there's no evidence to support that. He didn't have trouble throwing a bomb 56 yards through the air earlier in the game. He didn't have trouble throwing a Hail Mary 65 yards through the air on the final play. There was also the option, which Tony Romo mentioned during the broadcast, of bringing in Mariota for the Hail Mary if the Commanders didn't think Daniels could throw it far enough. That clearly wasn't a concern for them. It's also worth reading that ESPN article where Rodgers and Cousins specifically talk about adjusting the throwing technique for a Hail Mary.

You're also making the assumption, as we've all been doing, that the chances of success with the Hail Mary increased because the throw was shorter. Where are the statistics to support that? The graph I posted, although dated, appears to indicate that once the throw is over 50m it doesn't make a difference. I don't know what up-to-date analytics Eberflus has on this, but I'd be willing to bet the Bears have them. I'm hypothesing this is why Eberflus, an experienced and successful defensive play caller, claimed it didn't matter.
Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 4:39 am Outcome 1b - this happened and the clock stopped on 2 seconds.

Therefore, if you’re not going to attempt this play, the QB and receivers literally have 1 second extra to “get up the sideline” to set up an HM or a kick.

1 second!
An Olympic sprinter in perfect conditions can run about 10 metres in that time. Not a WR dodging players in full kit. How far up the touch line is he getting in 1 second? You’re giving him 18 yards which makes him twice as fast as Usain Bolt in perfect conditions running in a straight line. Oh and he’s being covered so catching the ball is not as easy as “wide open player stood on touch line - easy throw”.

Outcomes 2b and 3 are almost impossible to achieve so those are the outcomes you try and force.

Outcome 1b is the easiest to achieve, so defend it to the max.
As I stated, for the second scenario the first two outcomes were highly improbable. The Commanders would not have attempted the quick out if it was defended and the option of trying to get behind a defender and up the sideline would have made for a difficult pass and catch and run the risk of the clock running out. I was running through any alternative scenario, however unlikely, to the penultimate play becoming a Hail Mary.

This is why Eberflus said the Bears would be defending a Hail Mary regardless. Either they defended the quick out on the penultimate play and the Commanders converted the play to a Hail Mary or they allowed the quick out and defended the Hail Mary from a shorter distance on the final play.

What is better:
  • Defend the quick out and then have to scramble back to get into position to defend the Hail Mary, with the throw coming from a few extra yards away
or
  • Allow the quick out and then defend the Hail Mary as you've practiced every week with everyone immediately dropping to their assigned roles, with the throw coming from a few yards closer?
I don't know the answer, but Eberflus clearly believed it was the latter. If Stevenson hadn't gone AWOL and had carried out his assignment who's to say Flus was wrong?
Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 4:39 am I appreciate the effort.
However, still, why no time out? Having f-d up penultimate play. Get the players together, calm everyone down and make sure they’re switched on.

He didn’t do that, he literally made it as easy as possible for the Commandos. So he got the result he schemed for.
You'll get no argument from me about Eberflus not using his timeouts. That to me is the egregious error here. He should have used one both before the penultimate play and before the final play. He derived absolutely no benefit from not doing so and it absolutely would have been beneficial to have done so. He should be getting pilloried for that far more so than his call not to defend that quick out.
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@HisRoyalSweetness

If you won’t take my word for it, what about Dan Quinn?

2nd paragraph :thumbsup:

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... -eberflus/

It wasn’t my assumption, it was straight from the mouth of he opposing HC.
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 3:17 pm @HisRoyalSweetness

If you won’t take my word for it, what about Dan Quinn?

2nd paragraph :thumbsup:

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... -eberflus/

It wasn’t my assumption, it was straight from the mouth of he opposing HC.
Yeah, I don't think Quinn even calls a play if they don't make that quick out, probably just forgot that Daniels can throw it that far, take a knee and shake Flus' hand.
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 3:17 pm @HisRoyalSweetness

If you won’t take my word for it, what about Dan Quinn?

2nd paragraph :thumbsup:

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... -eberflus/

It wasn’t my assumption, it was straight from the mouth of he opposing HC.
Saying “That’s the one you need. If we don’t get that play to (McLaurin), then we’re out of gas.” isn't quite the same as saying we couldn't have thrown it. It doesn't change the fact that the actual Hail Mary was thrown from exactly where the line of scrimmage would have been without the quick out.

And coaches can disagree and have different perspectives. What matters is what Eberflus thought the Commanders could do. His comments suggest he believed they would throw a Hail Mary if he took away the quick out and there were valid reasons why he may have thought that.

Again I'm not arguing Eberflus made the correct call, I'm just trying to rationalise his decision and his comments about it after the game.

The final paragraph of the article you linked to starts "Nobody can dispute that he's a terrific defensive coordinator. What he's done with the Bears' defense since taking over play-calling last season is admirable." That being the case there must be a reason why Eberflus decided on the strategy he did. I'm trying to understand what that was rather than simply concluding that he's an absolute idiot who doesn't know how to coach basics after 3 decades in the profession and in this 6th season calling defensive plays.
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IMO the simplest rationalization is that in the moment post game he simply failed to own up to his mistakes - both the 2nd to last play and the failure to call timeout the next play. A strong, confident leader would have done that IMO.
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