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I'm not saying its going to happen in its ideal form in Chicago, as Nagy has final say over the offense which I hope is more WCO based than the Kelly offense, but what do you all think about running a variation of the high tempo/no huddle offense with Kelly principles?

Does Nagy think he has the formula to properly use the benefits of the Kelly/Helfrich based offense inside of his own WCO without exposing the defense to the negatives of the resulting lopsided TOP we've seen in the past?

in a 2 minute type situation...absolutely...possibly to start the game or half also or any other time we want to throw it in there to catch a defense lollygagging

Hematite wrote:I'm not saying its going to happen in its ideal form in Chicago, as Nagy has final say over the offense which I hope is more WCO based than the Kelly offense, but what do you all think about running a variation of the high tempo/no huddle offense with Kelly principles?

Does Nagy think he has the formula to properly use the benefits of the Kelly/Helfrich based offense inside of his own WCO without exposing the defense to the negatives of the resulting lopsided TOP we've seen in the past?

Helfrich was just as influenced by Dirk Koetter as he was by Kelly. Oregon Ducks beat writer said one of the reasons Kelly hires Helfrich was that he wanted that different perspective. The Oregon offense did run a little differently after Kelly left. Helfrich was much more run/pass balanced than Kelly ever was and slowed things down just a bit.

We’re not going to see the Kelly offense in Chicago. What we will see is a Reid WCO heavily influenced by Nagy/Helfrich RPOs and spread/veer/inverted veer concepts. Aka the Nagy offense.

i just hope the days of getting a delay of game penalty *AFTER* a time out are over.

Hematite wrote:I'm not saying its going to happen in its ideal form in Chicago, as Nagy has final say over the offense which I hope is more WCO based than the Kelly offense, but what do you all think about running a variation of the high tempo/no huddle offense with Kelly principles?

Does Nagy think he has the formula to properly use the benefits of the Kelly/Helfrich based offense inside of his own WCO without exposing the defense to the negatives of the resulting lopsided TOP we've seen in the past?

As stated, Helfrich was as influenced by Koetter as Kelly. He'll be working within Nagy's offense, not the other way around.

RustyTrubisky wrote:i just hope the days of getting a delay of game penalty *AFTER* a time out are over.

This. Just, this. Please.

Atkins&Rebel wrote:in a 2 minute type situation...absolutely...possibly to start the game or half also or any other time we want to throw it in there to catch a defense lollygagging

What a shock its gonna be to go from run-run-pass-punt to hopefully a fully charged aggressive offense that takes advantage of the weaknesses of the defense on the field. Deep down I am stoked, but somewhere I hear a voice that tells me to simmer down.

What I don't want, and you all are helping ease those thoughts, is a gimmick offense that takes DC's in the league a few games to neutralize.

I guess I'm reading too much into the Helfrich hiring.

Years from now, they'll be talking about the Air Nagy offense!!

Ultimately I expect the offense to look more like the KC approach with some creative wrinkles. Kind of a similar player profile minus the receivers and Howard is to strong to not take advantage of. I don't personally want an offense that throws too much either. I want the offense to throw because they can and to be aggressive. The ground game still needs to be a big factor and I would hope it will be

It’s going to be Nagy’s offense.

base615 wrote:It’s going to be Nagy’s offense.

Yeah, I expect more or less Nagy’s offense from last year. Maybe with a bit more pace.

Think of how Howard will run when they spread the defense out and make teams fear the pass game.

Mikefive wrote:Think of how Howard will run when they spread the defense out and make teams fear the pass game.

I was thinking this exact same thing. Instead of facing 8+ in the box every play we go spread or *gasp* bunch formation then run Howard weak side. I'm picturing big things for him next year as long as we get some weapons at WR

But...but...think of what the defense will dictate...How will Nagy be able to scheme against what the defense dictates???

Mikefive wrote:Think of how Howard will run when they spread the defense out and make teams fear the pass game.

Bingo!

Atkins&Rebel wrote:But...but...think of what the defense will dictate...How will Nagy be able to scheme against what the defense dictates???

So sad hearing those excuses. I must say that the young offensive players development that did occur last year was in spite of coaching.

I'm not sure that we will see the Chip Kelly offense. I would expect to see the KC offense, with a lot of Kelly concepts thrown in. I do expect see more of a spread offense, something that Long and Grasu should be very familiar with. I expect there to be a lot of short under clear-out routes. I see more TE involvement (If Shaheen is who we all hope he is, this could very, very good for him). It's going to be really exciting to see what they put together.

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I'm not sure that we will see the Chip Kelly offense. I would expect to see the KC offense, with a lot of Kelly concepts thrown in. I do expect see more of a spread offense, something that Long and Grasu should be very familiar with. I expect there to be a lot of short under clear-out routes. I see more TE involvement (If Shaheen is who we all hope he is, this could very, very good for him). It's going to be really exciting to see what they put together.

That's what I'm hoping for as well. I think parts of the Chip Kelly offense make a lot of sense. But I hope and expect Nagy to hold true to the WCO.

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I'm not sure that we will see the Chip Kelly offense. I would expect to see the KC offense, with a lot of Kelly concepts thrown in. I do expect see more of a spread offense, something that Long and Grasu should be very familiar with. I expect there to be a lot of short under clear-out routes. I see more TE involvement (If Shaheen is who we all hope he is, this could very, very good for him). It's going to be really exciting to see what they put together.

That's what I expect as well.

Mikefive wrote:

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I'm not sure that we will see the Chip Kelly offense. I would expect to see the KC offense, with a lot of Kelly concepts thrown in. I do expect see more of a spread offense, something that Long and Grasu should be very familiar with. I expect there to be a lot of short under clear-out routes. I see more TE involvement (If Shaheen is who we all hope he is, this could very, very good for him). It's going to be really exciting to see what they put together.

That's what I expect as well.

We won't see the Chip Kelly offense here. It keeps the defense on the field too long because of those failed hurry up drives for the sake of having a hurried up drive.

You'll see those plays I'm sure, but I'm guessing the tempo will be more normal.

The Marshall Plan wrote:

Mikefive wrote:

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I'm not sure that we will see the Chip Kelly offense. I would expect to see the KC offense, with a lot of Kelly concepts thrown in. I do expect see more of a spread offense, something that Long and Grasu should be very familiar with. I expect there to be a lot of short under clear-out routes. I see more TE involvement (If Shaheen is who we all hope he is, this could very, very good for him). It's going to be really exciting to see what they put together.

That's what I expect as well.

We won't see the Chip Kelly offense here. It keeps the defense on the field too long because of those failed hurry up drives for the sake of having a hurried up drive.

You'll see those plays I'm sure, but I'm guessing the tempo will be more normal.

At the same time, being able to change the pace of the game is just another tool that can be used to attack a defense. It's something we rarely saw with the Fox, sometimes even when circumstances dictated a fast pace.

That's why I hope Nagy has some kind of plan where he thinks he can incorporate parts of the Kelly offense into his own while eliminating the major flaws of it.

Can you imagine the Bears routinely scoring over 20 points a game? Trubisky better be as happy as a pig in slop right now!

Hematite wrote:
Can you imagine the Bears routinely scoring over 20 points a game? Trubisky better be as happy as a pig in slop right now!

Had the bears scored 24 points per game this year, or roughly the league average, we would have been 12-4.

Of course there are a lot of variables that affect that, but still.....

Next person that says 'Kelly Offense' gets a rolled-up newspaper across the nose.

Hiphopopotamos wrote:Next person that says 'Kelly Offense' gets a rolled-up newspaper across the nose.

Fine. All I'm saying is that we should expect to see SOME of the Oregon concepts, under Chip Kelly, integrated into this offense. It is Nagy's offense. It will most likely be the KC offense. But with the hiring of Mark Helfrich, and given the potent Oregon offense in 2009-2012, you have to assume that Helfrich will bring a little of that to the table as they install it.

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:

Hiphopopotamos wrote:Next person that says 'Kelly Offense' gets a rolled-up newspaper across the nose.

Fine. All I'm saying is that we should expect to see SOME of the Oregon concepts, under Chip Kelly, integrated into this offense. It is Nagy's offense. It will most likely be the KC offense. But with the hiring of Mark Helfrich, and given the potent Oregon offense in 2009-2012, you have to assume that Helfrich will bring a little of that to the table as they install it.

And I hope they do install concepts of the "Kelly Offense". Of course it will be Nagy's offense and as I made clear in the opening post, I expect the meat of his offense to be WCO based, but as BWN posted above, the hiring of Helfrich has to mean Nagy is interested in something there.

That's why I originally asked if Nagy has some conceptual idea that can integrate the "Kelly Offense" into his system without sacrificing TOP.

Mr.Irrelevant wrote:

Hematite wrote:
Can you imagine the Bears routinely scoring over 20 points a game? Trubisky better be as happy as a pig in slop right now!

Had the bears scored 24 points per game this year, or roughly the league average, we would have been 12-4.

Of course there are a lot of variables that affect that, but still.....

Wow is that depressing...

...or encouraging depending on how you look at it.

interesting article

https://windycitychronicle.com/2018/01/ ... e-dynamic/

Hematite wrote:interesting article

https://windycitychronicle.com/2018/01/ ... e-dynamic/

WOW! Great article. They bring up Mouse Davis. Which goes back to my childhood. I grew up in Portland, Oregon. My Dad used to take me to Portland State University football games when Mouse Davis was the coach and Neil Lomax was under center. Those games were a BLAST to watch. There were receivers running EVERYWHERE. PSU used to absolutely destroy teams. It was a lot of fun.

I want it to be Nagy's offense. Period. His.

It's said, "There's nothing new under the sun," implying true invention is impossible, but "We all stand on the shoulders of giants," implies we can transform what already exists into something better.

I want Nagy to be transforming. Not necessarily with a new play, but with a new synthesis. And fluid, because new ideas will appear elsewhere, old ideas will be refuted, players will change, players' abilities will change.

I want the Bears to become the envy of football, not just because they are winning, but also because they are doing it in innovative style. They did it 98 years ago, and 33 years ago on defense. I want more.

Middleguard wrote:I want it to be Nagy's offense. Period. His.

It's said, "There's nothing new under the sun," implying true invention is impossible, but "We all stand on the shoulders of giants," implies we can transform what already exists into something better.

I want Nagy to be transforming. Not necessarily with a new play, but with a new synthesis. And fluid, because new ideas will appear elsewhere, old ideas will be refuted, players will change, players' abilities will change.

I want the Bears to become the envy of football, not just because they are winning, but also because they are doing it in innovative style. They did it 98 years ago, and 33 years ago on defense. I want more.

It will be his offense. All this hand wringing on kelly's/helfrich/reid's/whomever's offense is tiresome.

Nagy knows what he wants and he is a listen and learn guy too. He is gonna take from his experience and everyone's experience around him to form his offense. If something works it works and is kept, if something doesn't it will be discarded.

Anyone that thinks this won’t be Nagy’s offense is crazy. It might take bits and pieces from that Oregon system, but it will be the seasoning, not the steak.


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