Leonard Floyd discussion

The latest Bears news and talk

Moderators: wab, RING4CHI, Pagan

User avatar
Mikefive
Head Coach
Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Posts: 3522
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm

Leonard Floyd discussion

Fri May 17, 2019 8:42 am

This place is the offseason dead zone right now. So maybe it's time to drum up something to talk about.

I think Leonard Floyd is a good topic. After 3 years of the Leonard Floyd show, what's your view of him? Was he a worthy top 10 pick? Is he worth the $13M(?) 5th year option? Is he setup to have a breakout year? Has he been underwhelming to you? Are the injuries a fluke or a habit and how does that impact your opinion of him?
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
User avatar
Otis Day
Hall of Famer
Location: Armpit of IL.
Posts: 5591
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:43 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Fri May 17, 2019 9:10 am

Was he worthy of a top 10 pick - I do not believe so. I think it was a stretch. Pace saw all that athleticism and just had to have him.

Is he worth $13 mil - No. He would have to be balls out this year for me even to consider extending that 5th year and talk long term. If that did happen, was he just playing for a contract would be my thoughts.

He has not been underwhelming, just has not played up to his draft status and has surely not played like a guy deserving of $13 mil. He did come on last year during the second half, but has not provided consistency.

Injuries - they happen and seem to happen to him quite often. He looks brittle. I don't think putting more meat on his bones will help. I think he is a guy who just gets injured more than others.

I would not feel bad or care if they cut bait at the end of this year.
User avatar
WagonForce
Assistant Coach
Posts: 725
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:57 am

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Fri May 17, 2019 9:12 am

Floyd is a tough one for me. I like him as a player for a few reasons I'll get into in a moment, but overall I have to say he's disappointed me based on his draft position.

One of the first things that come to mind is how he was quickly lauded for his ability in coverage, which clearly is a good thing, particularly in the modern NFL where misdirection and versatility play a big role in creating favorable matchups. That said, I'd prefer if my top 10 pass rusher was lauded for his... pass rushing ability.

I think everyone could see the idea. Floyd was clearly fast albeit slight in his frame. He had length and bend but would likely struggle facing offensive players with NFL strength and size. If Floyd could elevate the power elements of his game there was a path towards being an elite defender, that rare combination of strength, agility and speed that would give opposing coordinators headaches. In my opinion, this never really materialized for Floyd (although it still might, in some form). As soon as even average players got their hands on him, he was done in the play. If the opposing team was running the ball, Floyd didn't give me a lot of confidence in his ability to shed a block and attack the ball carrier.

Then come the injuries, which could happen to anyone. However, when they happen to a player who is admittedly smaller in his frame, it's hard not to feel like injuries are at least in some cases consequences of not being built for durability in a league like the NFL. (I haven't actually seen any empirical evidence smaller players get hurt more often so maybe this is just confirmation bias, but I digress).

Next and last in my list of concerns is the lack of breakout production after the Bears added Mack. By all accounts Floyd should have been feasting last year with Khalil Mack added to a unit that already contained big focus areas for the opposing offense (players like Hicks). Now we all know that Floyd wasn't healthy in the first bit of the season which discounts things a bit, but after finishing with 49 tackles and 4 sacks, I think we can all agree that there was a somewhat surprising lack of production out of him.

So, why do I like him? Two big reasons. The first is that while he isn't perfect, he plays a premium position and still has upside. I agree with picking up his option and hope he takes a big step forward this year. I'm not convinced the Bears could have found a replacement that would have improved on him at comparable cost.

Second, I think he has the attitude to be a great defender one day. I recognize this is not a very tangible thing but to give an example, do you recall when Floyd body slammed Amendola against the Fins last year?

Floyd Slams Amendola (22 seconds)

It was a stupid penalty to take but it also showed me he was really fighting to make the play and that he was doing it with a bit of fire in his game. Floyd also showed that he could dial that meanness back a notch to stay within the rules later on in the season.

I'm hoping he has a career year in 2019, even if I'm not sure what the future holds for him and his position on the Bears.
User avatar
Mikefive
Head Coach
Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Posts: 3522
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Fri May 17, 2019 9:40 am

WagonForce wrote:Floyd is a tough one for me. I like him as a player for a few reasons I'll get into in a moment, but overall I have to say he's disappointed me based on his draft position.

One of the first things that come to mind is how he was quickly lauded for his ability in coverage, which clearly is a good thing, particularly in the modern NFL where misdirection and versatility play a big role in creating favorable matchups. That said, I'd prefer if my top 10 pass rusher was lauded for his... pass rushing ability.

I think everyone could see the idea. Floyd was clearly fast albeit slight in his frame. He had length and bend but would likely struggle facing offensive players with NFL strength and size. If Floyd could elevate the power elements of his game there was a path towards being an elite defender, that rare combination of strength, agility and speed that would give opposing coordinators headaches. In my opinion, this never really materialized for Floyd (although it still might, in some form). As soon as even average players got their hands on him, he was done in the play. If the opposing team was running the ball, Floyd didn't give me a lot of confidence in his ability to shed a block and attack the ball carrier.

Then come the injuries, which could happen to anyone. However, when they happen to a player who is admittedly smaller in his frame, it's hard not to feel like injuries are at least in some cases consequences of not being built for durability in a league like the NFL. (I haven't actually seen any empirical evidence smaller players get hurt more often so maybe this is just confirmation bias, but I digress).

Next and last in my list of concerns is the lack of breakout production after the Bears added Mack. By all accounts Floyd should have been feasting last year with Khalil Mack added to a unit that already contained big focus areas for the opposing offense (players like Hicks). Now we all know that Floyd wasn't healthy in the first bit of the season which discounts things a bit, but after finishing with 49 tackles and 4 sacks, I think we can all agree that there was a somewhat surprising lack of production out of him.

So, why do I like him? Two big reasons. The first is that while he isn't perfect, he plays a premium position and still has upside. I agree with picking up his option and hope he takes a big step forward this year. I'm not convinced the Bears could have found a replacement that would have improved on him at comparable cost.

Second, I think he has the attitude to be a great defender one day. I recognize this is not a very tangible thing but to give an example, do you recall when Floyd body slammed Amendola against the Fins last year?

Floyd Slams Amendola (22 seconds)

It was a stupid penalty to take but it also showed me he was really fighting to make the play and that he was doing it with a bit of fire in his game. Floyd also showed that he could dial that meanness back a notch to stay within the rules later on in the season.

I'm hoping he has a career year in 2019, even if I'm not sure what the future holds for him and his position on the Bears.
I'm pretty darned close to this.

One bothersome thing I can't quite figure out about him is why at the end of year 3 when he was healthy and had Kahlil Mack across from him, that he didn't seem to be a better pass rusher than he was in years 1 and 2. I like the guy and indications are he's a hard worker and all that. But when you're the 9th pick in the draft and about to make $13M next year, that sets the bar fairly high and he's not there for me. Assuming things don't change dramatically, I could definitely see us spending significant resources on a pass rusher in the draft next year as Floyd walks into the last year of his contract.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
User avatar
UOK
Site Admin
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 21172
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:07 am

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Fri May 17, 2019 10:11 am

Leonard Floyd has been fairly disappointing, I guess, but I don't feel like he's on a downward trend. He feels like one of those guys that has so much talent and skill, but sometimes needs the right moment to burst out. I have a feeling he'll really excel under Pagano, and be used as a coverage utility far less.

Floyd needs to shake off the Fangio rust of being a semi-safety for a couple years and remember how to be the fluid pass rushing terror that made him worthy of the 9th overall pick.
Image

"None of us are in the board room, locker room, or on the sideline, so in a way, we don't know shit."
- Otis Day


Read UOK's Summary of the Average Angry Bears Fan
User avatar
ursamagnus
Practice Squad
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:19 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Fri May 17, 2019 10:27 am

UOK wrote:Leonard Floyd has been fairly disappointing, I guess, but I don't feel like he's on a downward trend. He feels like one of those guys that has so much talent and skill, but sometimes needs the right moment to burst out. I have a feeling he'll really excel under Pagano, and be used as a coverage utility far less.

Floyd needs to shake off the Fangio rust of being a semi-safety for a couple years and remember how to be the fluid pass rushing terror that made him worthy of the 9th overall pick.
I don't disagree that much.

Floyd's upside is "Jason Taylor but better in coverage" Was he overdrafted? Yes. was he a valid 1st round pick? Yes. Injuries have limited his development. I'm willing to pay the money to hold onto him if manageable under cap.
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 20721
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Fri May 17, 2019 11:02 am

I attribute a lot of what bothers people about Floyd can be directly attributed to how Fox preferred to use Floyd. I don't think he was ever really allowed to do what got him drafted in the top 10 (to UOK's point).

Fox very much preferred brute force pass rushers like Houston and Pernell McPhee. I think probably extends to the reported disconnect between Fanio and Faox in how the defense was run. Floyd was being used like your typical weakside LB. He started to come out of it last year, but the broken hand put him at a disadvantage.

I'm rambling, but long story short, I expect to see his production trend upward if he can shake the injury bug.
User avatar
Bad Flanders
MVP
Posts: 1876
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:35 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Fri May 17, 2019 12:09 pm

He's a role player that excels at every role except for the primary role of his position. I think that creates a value that could fluxuate massively depending on what system he is in and what that system values.

First round pick? For the right system, yes, absolutely. Even in hindsight... FOR THE RIGHT SYSTEM. But worth a first round for this system, no, not in hindsight. But the athleticism coupled with lack of enough playing time to REALLY show whether he could break out or not... it was worth the shot.

I kind of don't see any scenario where is still a Bear after he hits unrestricted free agency. He has shown just enough that even if he has a down year, someone will take the chance and pay him more than Chi can (and he'd be stupid not to take it). And if he has an amazing year, same thing, we are out due to low cash (unless Pace really gets crazy with the money and the future).
User avatar
Mikefive
Head Coach
Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Posts: 3522
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Fri May 17, 2019 12:22 pm

UOK wrote:Leonard Floyd has been fairly disappointing, I guess, but I don't feel like he's on a downward trend. He feels like one of those guys that has so much talent and skill, but sometimes needs the right moment to burst out. I have a feeling he'll really excel under Pagano, and be used as a coverage utility far less.

Floyd needs to shake off the Fangio rust of being a semi-safety for a couple years and remember how to be the fluid pass rushing terror that made him worthy of the 9th overall pick.
But was he, really? He played MLB for the most part at Georgia, IIRC. Sure, he showed flashes, had the physical traits for a pass rushing OLB and got drafted based on that. But it's not like he was a pass rush demon in college.

I would agree though that he's not on a downward trend.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
User avatar
southdakbearfan
Head Coach
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 2610
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Fri May 17, 2019 2:53 pm

I like him, but unless he goes into all-pro mode I believe he will be cut due to cost and performance after the season concludes unless he is injured, which would prevent his release.

He is an excellent compliment in this defense doing most things well but none great. I think he has improved and that there is a chance his play could change this but at this point I don’t know how much more upward trend he has. I don’t think he will regress, just that he is what he is at this point and most likely stay at that level for a few more seasons.

How the defense changes and how he is utilized in it this season could also be a big factor.

There will be a few tough decisions on players the next couple seasons with limited cap space making it so everyone won’t be retained. Jackson, Whitehair, Trubisky, Cohen will be locks barring injury in the upcoming seasons to most likely stay, but you could see trevathon, Robinson, Gabriel, long, Kwiatkoski and others being replaced in the next few years past this upcoming season via draft and cheaper free agents.
User avatar
Atkins&Rebel
MVP
Posts: 1194
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:56 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Fri May 17, 2019 4:10 pm

I wonder if he'd excel as Danny Trevathan's replacement? He has the speed and coverage ability and can certainly blitz.
I will kill you if you cut me at the knees. You will drink with me when invited and stay til I say so. We only listen to American Music. I make men nervous with just my presence. I expect an apology if you hold. I throw linemen at QB's. Believe the Lore!
User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Location: Berwyn, IL
Posts: 8019
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Fri May 17, 2019 10:30 pm

I think we are going to see some serious shit out of Floyd this year. He really started gaining a lot of confidence in the last quarter of the season. When he had a healthy hand, and a healthy Mack across from him, he started to flash some real nice moves, and a really high motor. I think that with a full healthy training camp between the two of them, they are going to become quite the dynamic duo.
User avatar
Knuckles
Player of the Month
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 1:49 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Sat May 18, 2019 4:15 pm

I never really liked Floyd he was too skinny when drafted and up till the end of the season last year (for where he was drafted) I believed he was a bust and honestly still do. I know Pace signed the option because he wants to make sure that he's not being too hasty by letting him go because of those games and what he invested in him with the draft pick.

I just don't see Floyd being any more than what he's been... Maybe Pagano will have him rush more but when you look at a guy like Mack and see all the moves, power and quickness and then watch Floyd with his one move sitting there waving his upper body back and forth 5 yards away from a QB while being stonewalled by the LT just doesn't scream 13-15 mil a year. Especially when you have Hicks, Goldman and Mack on that same line taking double and even triple teams.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong but I highly doubt it... I think it was a mistake to extend him at that price and I honestly think he won't be a Bear the following year. He hasn't shown enough and hasn't improved with his pass rush moves/technique much he's still a one trick pony IMHO.
”Damn -- Khalil Mack had another strip sack?” Gruden asked rhetorically, shaking his head at the Oakland Raiders assistant coaches in his midst. “Are you ... kidding me?”
User avatar
Richie
MVP
Posts: 1638
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:37 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Sat May 18, 2019 6:59 pm

I suppose that I still like Floyd enough. The upside he's flashed at times has been exciting and he's consistently been solid when healthy. He's a "good" player who seems like he COULD turn into something more if he could just stay healthy. The problem is that he can't do that (at least not yet in 3 seasons worth of chances) and he hasn't quite lived up to his top ten overall draft price that we bid on him at. He's a great compliment... but when the expectation is for a player to be in the elite pass rusher conversation? That's not quite cutting it.

If we cut bait with him after next season, I'll feel rather indifferent about it. I would, however, love to be the team that gets a hold of him at a good price point following his potential departure.
Year 3 Starting (updated yearly)

Brees (11-4): 65.5% (7th) 7.9 Y/A (7th) 27 TD (7th) 6.8 TD% (4th) 7 INT 1.8 INT% (3rd) 104 Rating (3rd)

Trubisky (8-7): 63.2% (18th) 6.1 Y/A (32nd) 17 TD (27th) 3.3 TD% (30th) 10 INT 1.9 INT% (15th) 83 Rating (28th)
User avatar
southdakbearfan
Head Coach
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 2610
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Sat May 18, 2019 9:43 pm

Reading all the discussion I went back through Floyd's stats to see if I could figure out if the lineman he most often goes against are decent.

2016

1/2 sack vs Houston - Duane Brown starting LT - downside and was traded away a season later, managed to make PB though
2 sacks against GB first game - Bahktiari starting LT Pro Bowl Season
1 sack against MN first game - TJ Clemmings - trash
1.5 sacks against TB - Donovan Smith - bad
2 sacks against SF - Joe Staley - good, had a trash QB behind him

2017

1 sack against GB first game - Bakhtiari
2 sacks against MN first game - Riley Reiff - trash
1 sack against Carolina - Matt Kalil - trash
1/2 sack against GB second game - Bakhtiari

2018

1 sack against detroit first game - Taylor Decker - trash
1 sack against giants - Nate Solder - over the hill
2 sacks against GB second game - Bakhtiari

Granted these are assumptions as he does move around but most the time he is going against the LT from the games I have watched.

He has been great against GB which is most likely Bakhtiari who is more than solid as a LT but bascially everyone except Staley has either been trash, journeyman or below average. 5.5 of his 15 sacks have come vs GB.

You could also look at it as over a 3 season career over 50 percent of his sacks have come in 4 games total.
User avatar
Atkins&Rebel
MVP
Posts: 1194
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:56 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Sun May 19, 2019 7:41 am

southdakbearfan wrote:Reading all the discussion I went back through Floyd's stats to see if I could figure out if the lineman he most often goes against are decent.

2016

1/2 sack vs Houston - Duane Brown starting LT - downside and was traded away a season later, managed to make PB though
2 sacks against GB first game - Bahktiari starting LT Pro Bowl Season
1 sack against MN first game - TJ Clemmings - trash
1.5 sacks against TB - Donovan Smith - bad
2 sacks against SF - Joe Staley - good, had a trash QB behind him

2017

1 sack against GB first game - Bakhtiari
2 sacks against MN first game - Riley Reiff - trash
1 sack against Carolina - Matt Kalil - trash
1/2 sack against GB second game - Bakhtiari

2018

1 sack against detroit first game - Taylor Decker - trash
1 sack against giants - Nate Solder - over the hill
2 sacks against GB second game - Bakhtiari

Granted these are assumptions as he does move around but most the time he is going against the LT from the games I have watched.

He has been great against GB which is most likely Bakhtiari who is more than solid as a LT but bascially everyone except Staley has either been trash, journeyman or below average. 5.5 of his 15 sacks have come vs GB.

You could also look at it as over a 3 season career over 50 percent of his sacks have come in 4 games total.
Rodgers holds onto the ball against us because our secondary has always been suspect. I don't think Floyd has any magical pass rush move that overwhelms Bakhtiari.
I will kill you if you cut me at the knees. You will drink with me when invited and stay til I say so. We only listen to American Music. I make men nervous with just my presence. I expect an apology if you hold. I throw linemen at QB's. Believe the Lore!
User avatar
Richie
MVP
Posts: 1638
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:37 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Mon May 20, 2019 3:16 am

Atkins&Rebel wrote:
southdakbearfan wrote:Reading all the discussion I went back through Floyd's stats to see if I could figure out if the lineman he most often goes against are decent.

2016

1/2 sack vs Houston - Duane Brown starting LT - downside and was traded away a season later, managed to make PB though
2 sacks against GB first game - Bahktiari starting LT Pro Bowl Season
1 sack against MN first game - TJ Clemmings - trash
1.5 sacks against TB - Donovan Smith - bad
2 sacks against SF - Joe Staley - good, had a trash QB behind him

2017

1 sack against GB first game - Bakhtiari
2 sacks against MN first game - Riley Reiff - trash
1 sack against Carolina - Matt Kalil - trash
1/2 sack against GB second game - Bakhtiari

2018

1 sack against detroit first game - Taylor Decker - trash
1 sack against giants - Nate Solder - over the hill
2 sacks against GB second game - Bakhtiari

Granted these are assumptions as he does move around but most the time he is going against the LT from the games I have watched.

He has been great against GB which is most likely Bakhtiari who is more than solid as a LT but bascially everyone except Staley has either been trash, journeyman or below average. 5.5 of his 15 sacks have come vs GB.

You could also look at it as over a 3 season career over 50 percent of his sacks have come in 4 games total.
Rodgers holds onto the ball against us because our secondary has always been suspect. I don't think Floyd has any magical pass rush move that overwhelms Bakhtiari.
If our secondary was always so suspect - wouldn't Rodgers have a receiver open and not have to hold the ball?

Rodgers has been sacked a lot in his career and (in general) holds the ball longer than most QB's. Especially during Floyd's career - he's also had receiving corps that have done poorly in getting separation. So, I agree that it has to do with Rodgers penchant for holding the ball... but I just disagree with it having to do with our secondary. He just holds the damn ball a lot.
Year 3 Starting (updated yearly)

Brees (11-4): 65.5% (7th) 7.9 Y/A (7th) 27 TD (7th) 6.8 TD% (4th) 7 INT 1.8 INT% (3rd) 104 Rating (3rd)

Trubisky (8-7): 63.2% (18th) 6.1 Y/A (32nd) 17 TD (27th) 3.3 TD% (30th) 10 INT 1.9 INT% (15th) 83 Rating (28th)
sturf
Journeyman
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Mon May 20, 2019 8:21 am

Pass rushing is so volatile. Fans were saying Vic Beasley is who the Bears should of drafted after he 15.5 sacks in his second season. He followed that up with two 5 sacks seasons and isn't even a full time starter. Melvin Ingram was a bust as a pass rusher with a total of 6 sacks in his first 3 seasons and a torn ACL until he wasn't. This discussion about Floyd always gets framed in terms of sack totals, but I think getting Mack has changed what's needed at the opposite OLB position.

How hard it is going to be for the Bears to find another OLB that can set the edge well in the run game, play detached from the formation to jam WRs and TEs, drop 15 yards downfield, and still be a threat as a pass rusher? The Bears cannot afford someone like that in free agency. To find someone with that level of athleticism is going to take a 1st or 2nd round pick. Given the bust rate for OLBs do you really want to spend valuable draft capital there on a team trying to win now?

I see Floyd as someone who plays with consistent effort, sets the edge well with his length, allows the Bears defense to scheme like being able to play the base defense against the Rams' 3 WR sets, and is still a pass rushing threat with his speed. He also seems to have gotten past the concussion issues, which were scary early in his career. I'm hoping the Bears can use his injury history and lack of sack production to this point to get Floyd signed to an extension before the season starts because I don't see how the Bears replace him if he runs into a 10 sack season in 2019 or 2020.
User avatar
VA_Mountain_Bear
Assistant Coach
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:19 am

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Mon May 20, 2019 10:33 am

ursamagnus wrote:
UOK wrote:Leonard Floyd has been fairly disappointing, I guess, but I don't feel like he's on a downward trend. He feels like one of those guys that has so much talent and skill, but sometimes needs the right moment to burst out. I have a feeling he'll really excel under Pagano, and be used as a coverage utility far less.

Floyd needs to shake off the Fangio rust of being a semi-safety for a couple years and remember how to be the fluid pass rushing terror that made him worthy of the 9th overall pick.
I don't disagree that much.

Floyd's upside is "Jason Taylor but better in coverage" Was he overdrafted? Yes. was he a valid 1st round pick? Yes. Injuries have limited his development. I'm willing to pay the money to hold onto him if manageable under cap.

Well said
User avatar
southdakbearfan
Head Coach
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 2610
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Mon May 20, 2019 12:17 pm

sturf wrote:Pass rushing is so volatile. Fans were saying Vic Beasley is who the Bears should of drafted after he 15.5 sacks in his second season. He followed that up with two 5 sacks seasons and isn't even a full time starter. Melvin Ingram was a bust as a pass rusher with a total of 6 sacks in his first 3 seasons and a torn ACL until he wasn't. This discussion about Floyd always gets framed in terms of sack totals, but I think getting Mack has changed what's needed at the opposite OLB position.

How hard it is going to be for the Bears to find another OLB that can set the edge well in the run game, play detached from the formation to jam WRs and TEs, drop 15 yards downfield, and still be a threat as a pass rusher? The Bears cannot afford someone like that in free agency. To find someone with that level of athleticism is going to take a 1st or 2nd round pick. Given the bust rate for OLBs do you really want to spend valuable draft capital there on a team trying to win now?

I see Floyd as someone who plays with consistent effort, sets the edge well with his length, allows the Bears defense to scheme like being able to play the base defense against the Rams' 3 WR sets, and is still a pass rushing threat with his speed. He also seems to have gotten past the concussion issues, which were scary early in his career. I'm hoping the Bears can use his injury history and lack of sack production to this point to get Floyd signed to an extension before the season starts because I don't see how the Bears replace him if he runs into a 10 sack season in 2019 or 2020.
Not disagreeing but in today’s nfl olb’s Get paid big money if they are successful pass rushers or pile up boatloads of tackles.
User avatar
Mikefive
Head Coach
Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Posts: 3522
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Mon May 20, 2019 1:33 pm

sturf wrote:Pass rushing is so volatile. Fans were saying Vic Beasley is who the Bears should of drafted after he 15.5 sacks in his second season. He followed that up with two 5 sacks seasons and isn't even a full time starter. Melvin Ingram was a bust as a pass rusher with a total of 6 sacks in his first 3 seasons and a torn ACL until he wasn't. This discussion about Floyd always gets framed in terms of sack totals, but I think getting Mack has changed what's needed at the opposite OLB position.

How hard it is going to be for the Bears to find another OLB that can set the edge well in the run game, play detached from the formation to jam WRs and TEs, drop 15 yards downfield, and still be a threat as a pass rusher? The Bears cannot afford someone like that in free agency. To find someone with that level of athleticism is going to take a 1st or 2nd round pick. Given the bust rate for OLBs do you really want to spend valuable draft capital there on a team trying to win now?

I see Floyd as someone who plays with consistent effort, sets the edge well with his length, allows the Bears defense to scheme like being able to play the base defense against the Rams' 3 WR sets, and is still a pass rushing threat with his speed. He also seems to have gotten past the concussion issues, which were scary early in his career. I'm hoping the Bears can use his injury history and lack of sack production to this point to get Floyd signed to an extension before the season starts because I don't see how the Bears replace him if he runs into a 10 sack season in 2019 or 2020.
I read this as somewhat of a contradiction. It sounds like you're saying we aren't going to be able to re-sign him when his contract is up. But at the same time you don't want to spend draft capital to replace him. Of course, we do have him for 2 more years, so I guess there's always that time before replacement needs to occur.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
sturf
Journeyman
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Mon May 20, 2019 2:39 pm

Mikefive wrote:I read this as somewhat of a contradiction. It sounds like you're saying we aren't going to be able to re-sign him when his contract is up. But at the same time you don't want to spend draft capital to replace him. Of course, we do have him for 2 more years, so I guess there's always that time before replacement needs to occur.
My point is there is a significant incentive to pay the money to get Floyd locked into an extension before the 2019 season begins. Because he could not improve as a pass rusher at all in 2019 and still run his way into a 10 sack season that would make an extension too expensive for the Bears. And it may be worth it to pay Floyd given the bust rate of pass rushers in the draft, especially when the ones that succeed often take several to develop anyway. I'm willing to bet now on Floyd improving as a pass rusher given the alternatives.
User avatar
Sugashane
Journeyman
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:35 am

Re: Leonard Floyd discussion

Wed May 22, 2019 9:53 am

I want to preface this by saying I do like Floyd. Genuinely seems like a good kid and is a solid piece to have for a team. I've been over this a lot o another forum.

Was Floyd worth a top 10 pick? What do I think of him?
Hell no. He is an off-ball OLB, a semi-MLB, but not the impact player like Smith is. He was drafted to be an EDGE, failed miserably there. So Pace realized his mistake, got Mack, and was lucky Floyd does have a solidly rounded skillset. But he has literally been HEALTHY in just about 60% of his games (I'm counting his 8 or so games in a cast last year as not healthy, as it really limited his effectiveness. It was like Mack with the bum ankle. He is not durable at all it seems. Missed 10 of 32 games completely his first two years, had a cast for 8 which you even admit affected his play "dramatically" - as I said "healthy", not active- so right there we are talking about him not being healthy for 18 for 48 regular season games. He left due to some injury during the Rams game as well, so 19 of 48. That is almost 40% right there. That MUST be considered, because if we are in the postseason we need to be as healthy as possible, and him having a 60% chance of playing is a damning issue IMO.

Is he worth $13 million?
For the Bears? No way in hell. He is not an EDGE, he is an off-ball OLB who is basically used as a 4-3 OLB or even just simply another MLB that is over the tackle. He lacks the ability to make impact plays with any regularity, but doesn't have a true weakness in his game as he is at least passable in every aspect. So basically he is a larger Amos in that regard. Add in that he is not a top player on the Bears and it seems ridiculous to put so much capital into retaining him. Just on defense the Bears have 5 players that are IMO clearly better than him - Mack, Hicks, Fuller, Jackson, Smith, and Goldman. I would have put Amos in that list last year. Then you have Nichols rising and may overtake him this year, RRH looking to show he can rush the passer from the outside this year, Trevathan who is better but nearing the end of his career to age I believe, and Amukamara who is also unspectacular but damn good at a more premier position (remember Floyd isn't an EDGE). On offense we are also looking at Tru's potential crazy extension, ascending talents like Miller, Whitehair, and Daniels that are guys that we are going to be revolving the offense around the next 10 years. Frankly it is madness to put so much into him financially. You simply don't invest that much into an injury-prone player who isn't even a top 15 player on your team. And yes, I mean he really isn't and counted the guys I think are better, not counting any rookies in this draft class.

Has he been underwhelming to me?
Absolutely. I was hoping he would develop into a solid EDGE to be a cornerstone of the defense. The Jason Taylor comps were a joke to me, but rather than be a cornerstone he has become a solid complimentary piece when healthy. I'd value that as a 1st round pick, but in retrospect, even if it isn't actually fair to him, with his injury woes I wouldn't go above a late 2nd for him. He is easily replaceable compared to most of the defensive starters IMO.

Are the injuries a fluke or a habit and how does that impact your opinion of him?
He heasn't been healthy for but about 60% of his games, so I can't say it is a fluke. It greatly drops his value to me, as the best ability is availability. I can swing for injury prone players if they are support roles or rookies that aren't getting a ton of capital invested into them. I was willing to try Love in my mock draft, I wanted to trade up to 30-32 to draft Jaylon Smith and get the 5th year of eligibility, etc. But those guys were/would be cheap enough that you can add talented depth at their position in case they don't recover. You can't really afford to do that while paying the guy $13 mil per year.

Floyd is going to get over $10M per year from someone, and that is fine with me. He isn't worth it, but if he can net us a 3rd round comp pick while getting overpaid then good for him. He likely can get much more in the open market actually, look at the recent deals.

Dee Ford (28) -- Signed 5-year, $87.5M deal with SF - $17.5M average
Trey Flowers (25) -- Signed 5-year, $90M deal with DET - $18M average
Preston Smith (26) -- Signed 4-year, $52M deal with GB - $13M average
Za'Darius Smith (26) -- Signed 4-year, $66M deal with GB - $16.5M average

These gys aren't exactly on HOF paths. Ford has 2 10-sack campaigns, so disregard him. Flowers is averaging 7 sacks per year but is more limited in coverage. Preston Smith is averaging only about per year and is unable to have good years back to back thus far, Za'Darius Smith is coming off his best year but still only has about 4.5 sacks per year even after an 8 sack campaign. So there is a damn good chance Floyd, if he can have a decent year, will get $14-15 million per year from someone who is desperate for talent.

He just isn't worth it. Give me the 3rd round comp pick and thank you for the memories Floyd.
Image

Return to “Halas Hall”