Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

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G08
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Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:44 am

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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:46 am

This worries the shit out of me because if you go back and re-watch this game you'll see that Pettine smacked Nagy and our offense around. Disguising coverages, mixing looks, bringing various pressures... We had no answers and abandoned the run on top of it.

Week 2 should be fucking telling. If we have another dog shit offensive showing similar to week 1, I'm going to be very concerned.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:57 am

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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:05 am

Watching the game again. Nagy made it VERY easy for someone to shut down his offense. He really wasn't disguising things very well, and what RPO's he was running, weren't working because the run game had not been established. I think that Nagy's offense works. But he needs to remember that it's all predicated on establishing a running game. To just go out and start calling pass plays, or getting into formations where it's blatantly obvious that you're going to run a pass play, you're going to get throttled.

I understand what Herron is saying. Guys around the league have a "schematic read" on Nagy. Guess what. Every defense around the league has a schematic read on what Bill Belichick is going to run every Sunday. It's not like the Patriots or the Saints change what they're going to run every season, coming up with a whole new playbook. What Nagy needs to do is learn how to OPEN his playbook. What plays lead to effective branches of schemes within the offense.

Whatever that is. He needs to figure it out, and better hope that Mitch can run it.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:10 pm

“Predictable” isn’t a word that was said to me, but that’s probably the easiest term to associate what I’ve been told. Alignment and personnel grouping are apparently giving some keys away though.
That's what I've been saying about Howard's subpar numbers last year. Sure, his ypc was down - because everyone knew he was only there to run.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:37 pm

G08 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:46 am
This worries the shit out of me because if you go back and re-watch this game you'll see that Pettine smacked Nagy and our offense around. Disguising coverages, mixing looks, bringing various pressures... We had no answers and abandoned the run on top of it.

Week 2 should be fucking telling. If we have another dog shit offensive showing similar to week 1, I'm going to be very concerned.
Well, every offense will have a period where opposing staff's begin to get a read and adjust. We just have to see how Nagy adjusts back.

This was inevitable and it's not the end of the world.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:45 pm

Everyone's offense gets figured out. It's about execution. They have the talent if it is executed something will work most of the time.

It was figured out after 8 weeks last year and it still worked, plus it isn't like it is some revolutionary offense, it's reid's offense.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:30 pm

The real problem with Nagy is he calls to many low efficiency plays in general and especially at critical points.

Execution is always the key. You can run a combo of power with play action and if they are executed you move the ball forward.

Greenbay showed both lack of execution and low efficiency play calling.

Then you have rythm. Nagy doesnt seem to call plays consecutively that compliment each other. It's more of a grab bag approach. The only point in wich any rythm was obtained was late in the fourth when they stopped running, and changing personnel.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:38 pm

I wouldn't call Nagy's offense "predictable" ... inefficient and ineffective yes

and I don't think team's have figured out his offensive philosophy mainly because he doesn't seem to have one

teams have, and will continue to have, Trubisky figured out ... and as long as he continues to stare down his one receiver like a greenhorn rookie every time he drops back, success will continue to elude him
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:55 pm

Someone with a better memory can help me out on this.

Outside of the horrificly bad defence that Mel tucker fielded wasn't this a major issue of Trestmans second and last season with the Bears.

Y1 was offence heaven, Jay did good numbers and we looked good. We were then spoon feed this bullsheet on how Trestman and Jay had sat down gone over the whole offence and had really moved it up a notch. Buffalo week 1 rolls round in year 2. We move the ball well for one series the opener. Score a TD and we literally all cum in our collective pants over this year and our offence...the rest...well you know the rest
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:01 pm

Bearfanuk wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:55 pm
Someone with a better memory can help me out on this.

Outside of the horrificly bad defence that Mel tucker fielded wasn't this a major issue of Trestmans second and last season with the Bears.

Y1 was offence heaven, Jay did good numbers and we looked good. We were then spoon feed this bullsheet on how Trestman and Jay had sat down gone over the whole offence and had really moved it up a notch. Buffalo week 1 rolls round in year 2. We move the ball well for one series the opener. Score a TD and we literally all cum in our collective pants over this year and our offence...the rest...well you know the rest
Even if that were comparable, and I'm not sure it is, I don't think it's particularly meaningful or fair on Trestman. If your defence is obviously that bad I can't imagine the pressure it must put on offence, from coaching on down. Now Trestman has had other issues in the league but who knows how he could have down with the Bears if Tucker, and much of the playing staff, weren't stinking out the place.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:04 pm

I was talking purley from a this offense didn't grow or change from 1 year to the next. To the point we had defensive DB'S calling the play on the field just by verbiage or some key tell.

He also had an allergic reaction to running the football. Nagy doesn't like running the football.

I think I'm wrong...and I hope I am...I'm just trying to add to the conversation with a nugget that was hidden away and has emerged from its hiding place..Again...as my very first post said. Someone with a much better memory then me can either say with more conviction
Last edited by Bearfanuk on Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:11 pm

Bearfanuk wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:04 pm
I was talking purley from a this offense didn't grow or change from 1 year to the next. To the point we had defensive DB'S calling the play on the field just by verbiage or some key tell.

Again...as my very first post said. Someone with a much better memory then me can either say with more conviction
I didn't really buy that at the time. Admittedly Jeffery, Marshall, Bennett and Forte was a nice set of skill players but does Cutler through 66%, 28:18 and take us to the 23rd Offence that year if players know what plays we're going to run?
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:49 pm

any teams offense will look "figured out" when an offense as a whole simply cannot execute.
O line missed blocks, Mitch only threw for 10 f'n yards in the first half and when he started delivering passes the WR's not named Robinson couldn't catch.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:35 pm

Neither here nor there, but I went to high school with Big Ant Herron. He tried to buy an Iowa Hawkeyes keychain from me the day he committed there. Great dude.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:52 pm

Same issues we all had last year. It's really fucking simple. Nagy gets to cute. Low efficiency plays.

It's like john shoop running a rb dive fake QB sneak up there gap.

Trubs is no better. Christian ponder blake Bortles mitch Trubisky.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:35 pm

Moriarty wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:10 pm
“Predictable” isn’t a word that was said to me, but that’s probably the easiest term to associate what I’ve been told. Alignment and personnel grouping are apparently giving some keys away though.
That's what I've been saying about Howard's subpar numbers last year. Sure, his ypc was down - because everyone knew he was only there to run.
Nagy also did the exact same thing against the Packers that he did most of last year when it came to Howard; he didn't let his best RB get into any kind of rhythm. How many times last year were we incredulous that Howard only had 5 carries or fewer in the first half? It seemed to happen a lot. Fast forward to this season and it was the exact same thing with Montgomery... and then he proceeded to get just one carry in the second half when it was a 4 point game.

Montgomery is supposed to be the receiving threat Howard wasn't. He's supposed to stop defenses keying on the run as a result. If this offense is going to go anywhere then he needs to be on the field the majority of the time. Davis should only be coming on for the occasional play when Montgomery needs a breather. This constant swapping out of backs doesn't allow either them or the offense to get into a rhythm.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:46 pm

its easy to figure out when the rule of thumb is " well, they aint running it". By all accounts lining up in run protection and then shifting into zone when mitch cancelled the run was it all it took. Thats on a rookie QB and Nagy himself has said he called run plays that were checked out of at the snap.

Bottom line is if Mitch gets like a deer in the headlights and locks into his first pass read based on reading the D, Nagy needs to take more control of the call until Mitch is ready.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:32 pm

Atkins&Rebel wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:49 pm
any teams offense will look "figured out" when an offense as a whole simply cannot execute.
O line missed blocks, Mitch only threw for 10 f'n yards in the first half and when he started delivering passes the WR's not named Robinson couldn't catch.
I'm with this. Our OL was not good. That didn't help the run game and Biscuit was under some pressure and sacked 5x. Shaheen and Miller were no-shows. That's not an excuse for Mitch, he was not so good either. Or Nagy who unfathomably gave up on the running game. I think that's Occam's razor here.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:07 pm

G08 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:46 am
This worries the shit out of me because if you go back and re-watch this game you'll see that Pettine smacked Nagy and our offense around. Disguising coverages, mixing looks, bringing various pressures... We had no answers and abandoned the run on top of it.

Week 2 should be fucking telling. If we have another dog shit offensive showing similar to week 1, I'm going to be very concerned.

I don’t feel Nagy’s been figured out. However, sometimes I feel he gets in his own head, and might have a problem adjusting from his game plan if it’s not working out. The pukes were in a dime package pretty much the majority of the game, Belichick would’ve fed his RB until the defense switched looks. Another thing I’ve noticed is Nagy doesn’t play build using the same personnel, he would rather use multiple personnel groupings with lots of motion, I feel this slows down momentum and rhythm.

With all that said, it was only the first game, lots of ball left. I think everyone prematurely expected a lot from this offense in only its second year.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:12 am

Thanks to some Japanese coffee grain whiskey, I just had the guts to re-watch the "highlights" from the packers game. Our O-line basically gave mitch about 1.5 seconds on a lot of those plays, couple that with over 100 yds in penalties on offense...woof.

Im all for keeping the starting QB and some stars out of the pre-season, but our line has to get some reps before week 1 next year, it was a knife through butter and Green Bay's D front seven are not all that.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:17 am

GSH wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:12 am
Thanks to some Japanese coffee grain whiskey, I just had the guts to re-watch the "highlights" from the packers game. Our O-line basically gave mitch about 1.5 seconds on a lot of those plays, couple that with over 100 yds in penalties on offense...woof.

I'm all for keeping the starting QB and some stars out of the pre-season, but our line has to get some reps before week 1 next year, it was a knife through butter and Green Bay's D front seven are not all that.
This is a really good point. No other position group on the team has to work in sync as much as the O-Line. It's imperative that they get some work in together prior to running out for game one. My suggestion would be to wait until game four of the preseason, and run them out for the second half. Let them go against some NFL scrubs, and work on their communication and timing.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:56 am

I don't know if I can weather all this "everything is awful" stuff 60 or so minutes into the season.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:28 pm

^^^^^^^^^ This..move on..make corrections then we'll see what we got. Lost tough first game last year then 12/3 after..

I got no where else to go but wait and watch..lol
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:51 pm

wab wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:56 am
I don't know if I can weather all this "everything is awful" stuff 60 or so minutes into the season.
I suppose I should believe it, but I can't believe that we are one game into the season and the discussions have turned apocalyptic. What I'm inferring from a lot of posts here is that I should just tap out of rooting for the Bears the remainder of this season and start watching a shit ton of college football looking to see who the Raiders are going to take with the #1 overall pick they'll inherit from us as part of the Mack trade.

The Browns got their ass kicked today. Watch the Bears play them in the Super Bowl. I'll pass out laughing.

NFL offensive and defensive schemes aren't exactly on the level of the Enigma Machine in WW2 where you need a team of math geniuses to break the code. There are people whose job it is to figure this shit out.

If there was a scheme on either side of the ball that was uncrackable then everybody would run it. It all comes down to the ability to execute and the timing of the plays being called.

What exactly do the Bears have to do to make you believe that they are capable of doing something good?

1) The front office has been transformed. Ryan Pace has built a team and he's done it predominately through the draft. He's also proven that he's willing to take extreme measures to get "his guy". See Mack, Khalil.
2) Nagy was the toast of the town eight months ago. Now he's Ron Turner 2.0 with a DOS based offense apparently.
3) The defense is at a level not seen in at least a decade and either has already or will surpass the greatness of the defense in the Urlacher era.
4) We are still a young football team and whose future over the next five years looks even comparable to ours? The Chiefs and Browns?

I get it. As a fan of a team there's an emotional investment involved. The next four games are very winnable and if we go 4-1 into the bye none of this matters. Just like when I pissed and moaned about Roquan with the iPad. It's the last thing on my mind now with the way that guy plays and I even have a kick ass jersey of his now.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:01 pm

In fairness to the people panicking, all it takes is one very possible thing to be true (Mitch isn't a good QB) and the season is shot, and possibly the entire window.

In fairness to the people claiming overreaction, I do expect the team to look better by Week 3 or 4, after the offense gets the work it should have gotten in the preseason.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:11 pm

You really can't claim over reaction if these are the same complaints from 17 games ago. That sounds like consistency.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:06 am

mmmc_35 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:11 pm
You really can't claim over reaction if these are the same complaints from 17 games ago. That sounds like consistency.
It's not the complaints that are an "overreaction".

It's the drastic length of the conclusions that Bears fans are jumping to based on these complaints.

Yes, we had these complaints last year. Guess what? We figured it out and went 12-4.

We all believed that we were SB contenders for an entire off-season. Stop acting like the sky has fallen and that EVERYTHING is f**ked. All because we played 60 minutes of poor offense in our first game of the season. Dear lord. lol

Your baseball team is among the favorites to win the World Series. Then, they have a rough first week and the season's over? The problems during that week are insurmountable? That's literally the equivalent of what we are talking about here.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:02 am

So the Oline was bad? This is one of the best Olines in the NFL. Their offensive coaches abused them Thursday. 50 called passes and 11 handoffs to RBs. The D had little question about what was coming ... and we wonder why it was a track meet to the QB? LOL. Want to improve the Oline? Run the damn ball.

Want to give the slow-developing QB more time to develop? Also strongly consider running the ball more often even if it goes against your nature. It occurred to me just now reading this thread why Nagy didn't like Howard. It was because he wanted to always have the option of not running the ball and has no issues with chucking it 45-50 times a game.

In the heat of the moment, Nagy seems willing to FORCE success onto 10 like a gambler who lost his ass continuing to play "one more bet, because this next one is a big winner". This is a problem for 10, because he isn't Mahomes or Brees or other truly great passers. Jesus Christ Tom Brady only averages about 35 passes a game in his career.

I'm hardly down on 10 at all. I'm not going to whine about what my team doesn't have, or about other team's luck. 10 is just not one of those guys that is going to light it up passing in his early years. He's perfectly adequate to win and make a run with this team. This Bear D is epic.

All my focus is on Nagy, and NOT his offense - but his play calling in the moment.
Here's something else that occurred to me: It doesn't take until the end of the game to see what is happening. I was screaming "run the damned ball" by the 2nd quarter. And of course the Pack recognized it easily and early. My concern is we KNOW other people in the organization saw how he was trending on Thursday and were unable to say anything to Nagy (or get through to him if they tried).

I get why nobody wants to correct "the man with the plan". So let's hope Nagy's self awareness is high enough to either control his play calling better in games OR perhaps hand the responsibility to someone who is more calm under fire.
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Re: Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:09 pm

Richie wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:06 am
mmmc_35 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:11 pm
You really can't claim over reaction if these are the same complaints from 17 games ago. That sounds like consistency.
It's not the complaints that are an "overreaction".

It's the drastic length of the conclusions that Bears fans are jumping to based on these complaints.

Yes, we had these complaints last year. Guess what? We figured it out and went 12-4.

We all believed that we were SB contenders for an entire off-season. Stop acting like the sky has fallen and that EVERYTHING is f**ked. All because we played 60 minutes of poor offense in our first game of the season. Dear lord. lol

Your baseball team is among the favorites to win the World Series. Then, they have a rough first week and the season's over? The problems during that week are insurmountable? That's literally the equivalent of what we are talking about here.
If a good boxer consistently gets hit with a left hook because he drops his right hand you grow concerned. Sure he may win a bunch of fights, but gets when he gets dropped because of the flaw , concern is justified.

I never believed or heard super bowl aspirations from this team.

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