Hypothetical 2020 Solution

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Bears Whiskey Nut
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Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:54 am

Ok. I hate to do this. But why not.

Let’s say that Mitch CAN’T get this figured out. That his development plateaus. It’s a real concern. We have a championship defense, with arguably one of the best players in football at OLB.

Here’s the question;

Do you make a hard play for Marcus Mariota in FA? He played at Oregon under Hellfrich, when they had one of the most dynamic passing attacks in the country. He’s played in this offense. It would give Pace an opportunity to right the ship.
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G08
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:01 pm

Nope. It takes 3 years to master this offense (if not more, according to Childress). Pace tied his ship to Trubisky and, IMO, is going to do everything in his power to make sure he succeeds.

Guys, I get that it's amazing what Patrick Mahomes did last year and all of us would have LOVED to have him here (ahem see the draft thread I created of him) but that ship has sailed. It takes time to find success in the NFL at QB.

Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Philip Rivers
Brett Favre
Ben Roethlisberger

etc etc etc

Last week fucking sucked and I hated it as much as the next die hard Bears fan, but that game was more of an aberration than the norm if you've been honest in watching Trubisky's career.

**Not directed at you, Whiskey, just all the media coverage here in the city and what I'm reading on various boards caused this minor eruption :lol:
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wab
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:15 pm

Jesus
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Mikefive
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:25 pm

Here's the problem with signing Mariota... He's not going to sign a one or two year deal and he's going to get LOTs of guaranteed $$$. Sure, it would allow us to move on from Mitch. But there won't be a good move-on plan if Mariota is no better than we've seen from him so far, which is entirely a possibility. Biscuit was a long term project from the day we drafted him. To punt on him after 3 years is too soon. The onus is on Pace to keep our defense going for a few more years.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
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wab
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:37 pm

Guys. If the Bears move on from Mitch...they will be moving on from Pace. And Nagy. And Helfrich.

Everyone is tied together. The future was bet on Mitch when they took him at 2.

Dude made the pro bowl and led the team on what should have been a game winning playoff drive in the clutch. WHY is this a conversation after 30 bad minutes of football. 30 minutes I might add, during which Aaron Rodgers was JUST as bad.
Mr.Irrelevant
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:49 pm

wab wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:15 pm
Jesus
Is He available?
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AZ_Bearfan
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:58 pm

Are you trying to tell me Jesus Christ can't hit a curve ball?
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UOK
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:44 pm

AZ_Bearfan wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:58 pm
Are you trying to tell me Jesus Christ can't hit a curve ball?
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The Marshall Plan
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:35 pm

wab wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:37 pm
Guys. If the Bears move on from Mitch...they will be moving on from Pace. And Nagy. And Helfrich.

Everyone is tied together. The future was bet on Mitch when they took him at 2.

Dude made the pro bowl and led the team on what should have been a game winning playoff drive in the clutch. WHY is this a conversation after 30 bad minutes of football. 30 minutes I might add, during which Aaron Rodgers was JUST as bad.
Thank you.

If Biscuit is a bust, which he isn't and won't be, then we've got bigger problems.

Pace is gone.
Nagy is gone.
Biscuit is gone.

Back to the drawing board with most likely a defensive minded HC (Pagano?) who can get the most out of this defense while the search for a QB takes another decade or two where our ceiling will be like the Jim Miller era.

The Eeyore Mania surrounding week 1 is really bad. Over the past week we've got Nagy "destroying" our trust. Apparently we need to get rid of Biscuit. And now the finger is getting pointed at not calling holding on Mack every single play.

We lost that game because the offensive line sucked the big one which is most likely due to rust. The next four games are very winnable and if we're 4-1 at the bye week nothing in week 1 will have mattered.

My attitude is we are either going to be fine or we are not. I expect us to be fine and to do great things this season. That's also my approach to life. Attitude is everything and there is power in belief.

Wake up me sometime around the bye week to pass judgement on this season and to re-evaluate Nagy and Biscuit.
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:56 pm

wab wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:37 pm
Guys. If the Bears move on from Mitch...they will be moving on from Pace. And Nagy. And Helfrich.

Everyone is tied together. The future was bet on Mitch when they took him at 2.

Dude made the pro bowl and led the team on what should have been a game winning playoff drive in the clutch. WHY is this a conversation after 30 bad minutes of football. 30 minutes I might add, during which Aaron Rodgers was JUST as bad.
Explain to me why this is true. Seriously.

Pace has developed and assembled a great NFL team. A great defense, and some great offensive skill players. Even a really good offensive line. So what you're saying is, if Pace fucks up the QB position on his first try, then he's gone. Sort of throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't it? Why wouldn't the McCaskey's give him one more shot at it. The bigger crime would be giving a struggling QB a massive contract he doesn't deserve, than cutting bait and giving it one more shot.
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wab
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:33 am

Explain to me why this is true. Seriously.
Tell me why you'd want him to have another crack at it after trading up for a guy who ultimately turned out to be a failure when he could have stayed at 3 and taken one of the two other successful QB's picked shortly after?

Or the guy that gave a ton of money to Glennon.

He will have already had two strikes at QB swings.

I mean if everyone is already talking about Mitch being a bust after 4 quarters of football played badly by both teams, if he's regressed THAT much THAT quickly, then everyone has failed. Right?
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:29 am

wab wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:33 am
Explain to me why this is true. Seriously.
Tell me why you'd want him to have another crack at it after trading up for a guy who ultimately turned out to be a failure when he could have stayed at 3 and taken one of the two other successful QB's picked shortly after?

Or the guy that gave a ton of money to Glennon.

He will have already had two strikes at QB swings.

I mean if everyone is already talking about Mitch being a bust after 4 quarters of football played badly by both teams, if he's regressed THAT much THAT quickly, then everyone has failed. Right?
Pretty much.

Pace has hitched his wagon to Trubisky (and, to a lesser extent, Nagy). He's built a fine team around that player, but Tru is his legacy pick.
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malk
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:14 pm

wab wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:33 am
Explain to me why this is true. Seriously.
Tell me why you'd want him to have another crack at it after trading up for a guy who ultimately turned out to be a failure when he could have stayed at 3 and taken one of the two other successful QB's picked shortly after?

Or the guy that gave a ton of money to Glennon.

He will have already had two strikes at QB swings.

I mean if everyone is already talking about Mitch being a bust after 4 quarters of football played badly by both teams, if he's regressed THAT much THAT quickly, then everyone has failed. Right?
So a GM's job is to draft a top QB and that's it? I know Pace isn't perfect, I've been more critical than most here I think, but we've got the best defence in football, weapons on offence, a stack of good draft picks... The Bears would be insane to get rid of Pace if Trubisky shits the bed. Hell, if Trubisky is shit this year then I'd be tempted to give Nagy a mulligan.

Now I don't think any of this will be necessary, until Pace drops $30m a year on Trubisky, then he can get in the bin.
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:46 pm

Just to offer some perspective, imagine how Packers fans are just lapping it up that one loss to them can seemingly cause BFO to meltdown completely.

Yeah, as was shown, I was really, really disappointed with our Nagy and our O's effort in Game 1 but that will need to be duplicated for the next 15 games for me to to even begin to think about burning it all down and starting over. I mean, let's just take a breath, step back from the cliff for a second, and give them another chance.

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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:40 pm

If mitch turns out to be a total bum this season, Mariota is not the answer.
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:38 pm

Man, everyone needs to calm down and quit listening to all the talking heads. Just like all the regular news networks they just blow up bullshit for clicks and hot takes.

The same talking heads think Cam Newton is a great QB. He stinks.

The same talking heads don't hesitate to talk up Sam Darnold who has put up less than Mike Glennon stats.

Mitch did well last year, he is a good QB. Is or will he be an all pro, who knows, but he is good enough if they unleash him and let him utilize his tools. He is at his best when he is unpredictable. Move the pocket, open up running and passing options, etc. He progressed last year and I expect him to continue to progress this season.

This sky is falling crap is bandwagoning at it's worst.

Last week was a freaking product of a team not being ready, a team. Only the defense played well. The Coach called a shit game, the line blocked like shit, etc etc.
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The Marshall Plan
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:05 am

malk wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:14 pm
wab wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:33 am


Tell me why you'd want him to have another crack at it after trading up for a guy who ultimately turned out to be a failure when he could have stayed at 3 and taken one of the two other successful QB's picked shortly after?

Or the guy that gave a ton of money to Glennon.

He will have already had two strikes at QB swings.

I mean if everyone is already talking about Mitch being a bust after 4 quarters of football played badly by both teams, if he's regressed THAT much THAT quickly, then everyone has failed. Right?
So a GM's job is to draft a top QB and that's it? I know Pace isn't perfect, I've been more critical than most here I think, but we've got the best defence in football, weapons on offence, a stack of good draft picks... The Bears would be insane to get rid of Pace if Trubisky shits the bed. Hell, if Trubisky is shit this year then I'd be tempted to give Nagy a mulligan.

Now I don't think any of this will be necessary, until Pace drops $30m a year on Trubisky, then he can get in the bin.
These are the first round picks under Ryan Pace:

1) Kevin White - Bust
2) Leonard Floyd - I would argue that this is a bust although I would never actively root for a Bear to fail. I hope to be 100% wrong.
3) Biscuit - I love him.
4) Roquan - Home run.

I have said repeatedly that I think Biscuit, Pace, Nagy etc. are awesome and blah blah blah and obviously my mind hasn't changed since yesterday. That being said....

If Biscuit winds up being a double doink Pace can't stick around with a first round draft record like that. Sorry but its too high profile of a fuck up and then also a pattern emerges. In my opinion that would be 3 busts out of 4 tries and all of those were high draft picks including two trade ups.

There is no arguing that Pace really excels in the later rounds. That's his strength. But IDK if that's enough for him to hang around. Honestly the very fact that he's assembled a team this great in the draft while at the same time effectively conceding the first round to other teams speaks to just how great he is at drafting in the later rounds. Imagine where we'd be if White and Floyd were worth their draft position? It would be unreal.
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BR0D1E86
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:11 am

You really should not consider Floyd a bust. He’s underperformed, but he’s certainly not a bust.

White was such a freak show conglomeration of weirdness I almost give the whole thing a mulligan. He got hired too late to use his own scouting so he used the old regime’s scouts. And it’s impossible to know what he’d have been if he hadn’t suddenly turned into the most injury prone human alive with zero history to indicate it would be the case.
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:41 am

BR0D1E86 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:11 am
You really should not consider Floyd a bust. He’s underperformed, but he’s certainly not a bust.

White was such a freak show conglomeration of weirdness I almost give the whole thing a mulligan. He got hired too late to use his own scouting so he used the old regime’s scouts. And it’s impossible to know what he’d have been if he hadn’t suddenly turned into the most injury prone human alive with zero history to indicate it would be the case.
Yeah, reminded me of Airese Currie years ago. Every year was going to be the breakout year but don't think there wasn't a year where he wasn't on IR.
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G08
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:52 am

Yeah I wouldn't call Floyd a bust... especially if week 1 was a sign of what he's going to do this season. Jesus Christ some of his pass rushes had me jumping out of my seat!
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:34 pm

wab wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:37 pm
Guys. If the Bears move on from Mitch...they will be moving on from Pace. And Nagy. And Helfrich.

Everyone is tied together. The future was bet on Mitch when they took him at 2.
I respect this logic, but disagree vehemently.

There's no way that the organization tears EVERYTHING down that we've done over the past four years and rebuilds after this season if Mitch bombs. Not when we have a defense like this and an offensive line/weapons locked in like we do.

If Mitch tanks and fizzles out. They will try to find a QB capable of getting us a ring within this team's window. They will not blow it up. No matter WHAT...
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:05 pm

Richie wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:34 pm
wab wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:37 pm
Guys. If the Bears move on from Mitch...they will be moving on from Pace. And Nagy. And Helfrich.

Everyone is tied together. The future was bet on Mitch when they took him at 2.
I respect this logic, but disagree vehemently.

There's no way that the organization tears EVERYTHING down that we've done over the past four years and rebuilds after this season if Mitch bombs. Not when we have a defense like this and an offensive line/weapons locked in like we do.

If Mitch tanks and fizzles out. They will try to find a QB capable of getting us a ring within this team's window. They will not blow it up. No matter WHAT...
I totally agree Richie. I don't see the McCaskey's firing Pace if Trubisky doesn't work out. They spent a lot of money looking for Pace. He is the young GM that the organization has been looking for. He has put together a really solid team. He has made some good trades and FA signings. He has extended the right players. I don't see him being fired if Mitch doesn't work out. At least I hope the Bears don't.
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:11 am

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:05 pm
Richie wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:34 pm


I respect this logic, but disagree vehemently.

There's no way that the organization tears EVERYTHING down that we've done over the past four years and rebuilds after this season if Mitch bombs. Not when we have a defense like this and an offensive line/weapons locked in like we do.

If Mitch tanks and fizzles out. They will try to find a QB capable of getting us a ring within this team's window. They will not blow it up. No matter WHAT...
I totally agree Richie. I don't see the McCaskey's firing Pace if Trubisky doesn't work out. They spent a lot of money looking for Pace. He is the young GM that the organization has been looking for. He has put together a really solid team. He has made some good trades and FA signings. He has extended the right players. I don't see him being fired if Mitch doesn't work out. At least I hope the Bears don't.
oh god yeah, pace has done way too much good for his job to be in jeopardy simply because mitch sucks. i guess i could see nagy maybe getting the axe if he turns out to be trestman redux but i think he's pretty safe too. for some reason so many fans cant get over their angry hard on for the glennon signing and i feel pretty confident that no one at halas hall gives a fuck about that. mitch needed time to groom, they took a shot on a mid-priced veteran.
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malk
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:01 pm

RustyTrubisky wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:11 am
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:05 pm


I totally agree Richie. I don't see the McCaskey's firing Pace if Trubisky doesn't work out. They spent a lot of money looking for Pace. He is the young GM that the organization has been looking for. He has put together a really solid team. He has made some good trades and FA signings. He has extended the right players. I don't see him being fired if Mitch doesn't work out. At least I hope the Bears don't.
oh god yeah, pace has done way too much good for his job to be in jeopardy simply because mitch sucks. i guess i could see nagy maybe getting the axe if he turns out to be trestman redux but i think he's pretty safe too. for some reason so many fans cant get over their angry hard on for the glennon signing and i feel pretty confident that no one at halas hall gives a fuck about that. mitch needed time to groom, they took a shot on a mid-priced veteran.
No one hated the Glennon signing more than I did (well, on this board, I'm not including radio sports show callers!) but it doesn't want me to jettison Pace even if Trubisky washes out.

I think Pace has some improvements to make, particularly around calculated risks in free agency (more McPhee, Gabriel type signings) but he shows so many good traits I want him to learn from them with us and get better. The other option is continually trying to find a mythical prodigy and never letting them learn on the job.

Its similar for Navy though he obviously doesn't have Pace's body of work. He needs to show enough in his initial contract to deserve a second, not win a ring or get in the bin.
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

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IE
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Re: Hypothetical 2020 Solution

Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:35 am

Mr.Irrelevant wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:49 pm
wab wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:15 pm
Jesus
Is He available?
LOL Beat me to it.
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