The problem with the offense in one photo

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wab
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The problem with the offense in one photo

Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:28 pm

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Mitch has a clean pocket, hits his drop, but there isn't a single WR into his route. He has nowhere to go with the ball yet. He tries to climb the pocket and buy time for a WR to break, but is dropped by Bosa.

I'm a Nagy supporter, but this is a bad play design. The problem is the depth of the route combinations plus the depth of the drop. That ball should be out when he hits his drop, but it can't be with the way that route combo is designed and/or the depth of the drop. It should either be a 5 step drop or a have two WR's run a different route.

And yes, he was sacked, but the OL was blocking for a 3 step drop.
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AZ_Bearfan
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:36 pm

I've seen multiple times where they bring a wideout in to motion, basically pulling another defender in to the box right before a run play. It's kinda maddening.
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:42 pm

AZ_Bearfan wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:36 pm
I've seen multiple times where they bring a wideout in to motion, basically pulling another defender in to the box right before a run play. It's kinda maddening.
Those I understand because the play is supposed to go to where that defender just vacated, or it involves a trap trap block to the motion side. They just haven't been blocking it very well. It also doesn't work unless the running game is going.
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:50 pm

A lot of routes are designed to be thrown before the receiver makes his break, but I’d be surprised if all of them were designed that way on a given play.
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:53 pm

BR0D1E86 wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:50 pm
A lot of routes are designed to be thrown before the receiver makes his break, but I’d be surprised if all of them were designed that way on a given play.
Right. You can't have 4-5 routes that are designed that way on the same play. maybe 2. He's gotta have somewhere else to go if those don't develop. Designing a play like that, and not giving him a deeper drop, puts an awful lot on any QB...let alone Mitch.
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:12 am

wab wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:28 pm
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Mitch has a clean pocket, hits his drop, but there isn't a single WR into his route. He has nowhere to go with the ball yet.
Should he, though? It's 3rd and 11. The receivers are aren't even halfway to the first down marker. It's pretty understandable that the appropriate play call is going to take a relatively long time to develop. In order to get past the sticks.

He settles out of his drop between 8-9 yards behind the LOS. How deep do you want him?What type of depth do you think is appropriate?

Maybe I'm missing something. I wish I could find the full play at live speed but it's not on any highlight reels and I don't have an All-22 sub. Freeze frames are easy to take out of context. Especially with QB play. It's like that freeze frame everyone was going bananas over last week on the RPO vs New Orleans. People often see what they want.
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:58 am

I see the problem as two fold. First, Nagy has to start moving the pocket more. Mitch is better in this scenario, and it buys the receivers a little time. I think it's also on Mitch, and complete lack of pocket presence. Look at that photo. Leno has outside leverage on his block, which should allow Mitch to slide to his left, and buy time. Secondly they need to start layering the routes more. Instead of these long developing post and seam routes, Nagy needs to have a deep, medium and check down route for Mitch. I guess the last part is that the OL needs to pull their heads out of their asses too, but I think that goes without saying.
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:45 am

Richie wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:12 am
wab wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:28 pm
Image

Mitch has a clean pocket, hits his drop, but there isn't a single WR into his route. He has nowhere to go with the ball yet.
Should he, though? It's 3rd and 11. The receivers are aren't even halfway to the first down marker. It's pretty understandable that the appropriate play call is going to take a relatively long time to develop. In order to get past the sticks.

He settles out of his drop between 8-9 yards behind the LOS. How deep do you want him?What type of depth do you think is appropriate?

Maybe I'm missing something. I wish I could find the full play at live speed but it's not on any highlight reels and I don't have an All-22 sub. Freeze frames are easy to take out of context. Especially with QB play. It's like that freeze frame everyone was going bananas over last week on the RPO vs New Orleans. People often see what they want.
The problem is that it's a 3 step drop and that's what the line is blocking for. With the WRs running those specific routes it should be a 5 step drop, and the line would know they have to pass block for a 5 step. That gives the routes time to develop. When he's already hit his drop and none of the routes have developed, it's hard to determine what read to go with.
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crueltyabc
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:31 pm

I’m not sure that the line is blocking for a three step block and can’t be sure that Mitch isn’t wrong here. Maybe he’s supposed to be on a five step drop
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:31 pm

I’m not sure that the line is blocking for a three step block and can’t be sure that Mitch isn’t wrong here. Maybe he’s supposed to be on a five step drop
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:43 pm

Another one that has me scratching my head a little is on the goal line 14;54 left in 2nd, pass play, ball is snapped and patterson doesn't take a step anywhere, just stands and watches, while mitch is moving to buy time. He doesn't block, fake and he isn't on the off side of the play, he is on the side where it is going. So his defender backs up and cuts the crossing route to the corner off even if the crossing receiver beats his guy.

IDK if this is patterson or nagy, but it's shitty offense either way.

Watching some of the other highlights defenses are hardly even playing patterson when he lines up out wide at all.
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:54 pm

crueltyabc wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:31 pm
I’m not sure that the line is blocking for a three step block
Yeah, I must be a moron because I don't know how these conclusions are being drawn about the protection.
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:25 am

You guys are right. It's clearly all on Mitch. There's no other possibilities.
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:31 am

wab wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:25 am
You guys are right. It's clearly all on Mitch. There's no other possibilities.

PACE GOT FLEECED

TRADE HIM BUT GET A FIRST ROUNDER BACK OR ELSE DATS A FLEECING AGAIN

FIRE DAT PACE AND HIRE THE COLTDS GUY BLALLARD GIVE HIM ALL OF PACE'S MONEY
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:35 pm

southdakbearfan wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:43 pm
Another one that has me scratching my head a little is on the goal line 14;54 left in 2nd, pass play, ball is snapped and patterson doesn't take a step anywhere, just stands and watches, while mitch is moving to buy time. He doesn't block, fake and he isn't on the off side of the play, he is on the side where it is going. So his defender backs up and cuts the crossing route to the corner off even if the crossing receiver beats his guy.

IDK if this is patterson or nagy, but it's shitty offense either way.

Watching some of the other highlights defenses are hardly even playing patterson when he lines up out wide at all.
That was deliberate, to fake like he was running a route to draw attention & leave the back corner for Shaheen -who the play was designed for. 84 didn't seem like he enjoyed the "do nothing" assignment.

Perhaps 10 had to throw it early, and I hope so. Because for the life of me I don't understand why anyone would choose to throw a low ball to Shaheen running across the back of the end zone, when just the week before the guy demonstrated terrific hands and an ability to box out and go up & get it in the end zone (something that slightly changed my opinion of the guy).

The Bears have all these large, long WRs who can out-fight for the ball... so naturally we're seeing plays like that to Shaheen, or plays go to Patterson (has he ever out-fought anyone for the ball? He's a friggin running back) or miniature guys who better be wide open or they'll never make a play.

I don't get it. All Trubisky's fault, of course.
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:04 am

IE wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:35 pm
southdakbearfan wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:43 pm
Another one that has me scratching my head a little is on the goal line 14;54 left in 2nd, pass play, ball is snapped and patterson doesn't take a step anywhere, just stands and watches, while mitch is moving to buy time. He doesn't block, fake and he isn't on the off side of the play, he is on the side where it is going. So his defender backs up and cuts the crossing route to the corner off even if the crossing receiver beats his guy.

IDK if this is patterson or nagy, but it's shitty offense either way.

Watching some of the other highlights defenses are hardly even playing patterson when he lines up out wide at all.
That was deliberate, to fake like he was running a route to draw attention & leave the back corner for Shaheen -who the play was designed for. 84 didn't seem like he enjoyed the "do nothing" assignment.

Perhaps 10 had to throw it early, and I hope so. Because for the life of me I don't understand why anyone would choose to throw a low ball to Shaheen running across the back of the end zone, when just the week before the guy demonstrated terrific hands and an ability to box out and go up & get it in the end zone (something that slightly changed my opinion of the guy).

The Bears have all these large, long WRs who can out-fight for the ball... so naturally we're seeing plays like that to Shaheen, or plays go to Patterson (has he ever out-fought anyone for the ball? He's a friggin running back) or miniature guys who better be wide open or they'll never make a play.

I don't get it. All Trubisky's fault, of course.
But there was no fake, the ball was hiked and he turned slowly looking disinterested. This allowed his man to back off closing down the area. Seems like a terrible design for the side the play was coming too. I think that's why it was thrown hard because Patterson's defender could just slide back to make a play on a touch pass very easily.

I also agree on the WR comment you have. Who is it almost every single time Trubisky overthrows a WR? Almost always it is Gabriel. When they make a big play downfield it's almost always Miller or Robinson.
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:13 am

southdakbearfan wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:04 am
But there was no fake, the ball was hiked and he turned slowly looking disinterested. This allowed his man to back off closing down the area. Seems like a terrible design for the side the play was coming too. I think that's why it was thrown hard because Patterson's defender could just slide back to make a play on a touch pass very easily.
You're right. I meant it looked like him simply lining up out here was supposed to be a fake. He probably was supposed to fake or do something else. But then he didn't - my guess is he thought it was dumb. It was. But that was bad form for 84.
southdakbearfan wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:04 am
I also agree on the WR comment you have. Who is it almost every single time Trubisky overthrows a WR? Almost always it is Gabriel. When they make a big play downfield it's almost always Miller or Robinson.
Besides really obviously despising power running, my other biggest beef with Nagy is his criminal malfeasance in the use of his big receivers with a QB who struggles with accuracy.

I do think Nagy plays favorites, and prefers certain toys over others. His favorites are 18, and of course his gadgets - 29 and 84. Mitch's clear favorite is 12, obviously. I personally believe the Bears have 2-3 MORE ARob class WRs and Nagy is appearing to me these days to be a stubborn, condescending bad boss. It's hard to blame Mitch for the paucity of production from 83, 17 and 88 if they're rarely out there or real options in the calls. Nagy should probably notice Mitch likes the big long jump ball guy out there, and say "Hey - you like that? We have more of those.
And they're pretty good".
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Re: The problem with the offense in one photo

Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:14 am

I just think it’s more likely that a single guy got flustered and made a mistake in the middle of a game than a room full of offensive coaches sat and drew up a play with intermediate route concepts and a three step drop.

I’m not even hating soley on Mitch anymore. This offense has two maybe three players consistently doing their job - Robinson, Whitehair... nope ok only two. That’s on the coaches.

So I guess I agree with the premise of this thread. On a given play at least one critical player is making a mistake.

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