Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

[wab]

He did have a really nice game.

[southdakbearfan]

Fields played undeniably great today

I thought he had a decent game until the end.

Deep bomb to Scott, whether he should have caught it or not, was a bad decision at that point in time at the game. A check down or run would have been smarter at that point,especially knowing you are throwing to a rookie. Another 30 seconds off the clock changes the lions play calls and scheme. I liked the run on first down that series but not the second dive in a row.

Strip sack to end, 100% on the qb. He was locked onto the left side and didn’t see a pass rush that was easily avoided with 1 step up in the pocket. Not that there was much chance at that point but it was poor and not at all on wright.

The good, smart runs, climbed the pocket to nail DJ on the bomb, I didn’t see any horrible passes either.

The bad, defense gave the offense the ball too many times that the offense sputtered or only got 3, argue whether that’s on the qb, the coach or the gameplan but it sucked.

But, the defense also turned back into a pumpkin the last 4 minutes of the game.

[dplank]

Of course.

[Rusty Trombagent]

I thought the bomb to Scott was one of his best throws of the game. Weird decision on scott to not run through it. But i dont hate the decision at all. Bears fans are just conditioned to default to the world's most conservative offense.

[southdakbearfan]

I thought the bomb to Scott was one of his best throws of the game. Weird decision on scott to not run through it. But i dont hate the decision at all. Bears fans are just conditioned to default to the world's most conservative offense.

It was a money throw, I would have liked any deep attempt on second down..

[southdakbearfan]

Of course.

Care to expound.

[dplank]

Of course.

Care to expound.

Nope

[thunderspirit]

Wright got thoroughly beat on that last play.
But that's on Fields.

Got it.

[wab]

I don’t know how anyone can have anything negative to say about Fields today.

YMMV I guess.

[The Marshall Plan]

I don’t know how anyone can have anything negative to say about Fields today.

YMMV I guess.

He had a really good game, but was light in the passing yards.

If we were evaluating these last 7 games to either keep or launch Fields I'd say the score is 1-0 in favor of keeping JF1.

[dplank]

I don’t know how anyone can have anything negative to say about Fields today.

YMMV I guess.

He had a really good game, but was light in the passing yards.

If we were evaluating these last 7 games to either keep or launch Fields I'd say the score is 1-0 in favor of keeping JF1.

Yea, I was thinking the same. We are evaluating him with 7 to go, I put this one firmly in the "keep Fields" category. I do think QB runs were a big part of the game plan heading in, due to the success Lamar Jackson had. It probably won't be like that every week.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I thought he had a decent game until the end.

Deep bomb to Scott, whether he should have caught it or not, was a bad decision at that point in time at the game. A check down or run would have been smarter at that point, especially knowing you are throwing to a rookie.

Flus said at his presser that the first read was to Moore across the middle but the safety came down to cover that so the read was then to throw the deep shot over the top.

So the read was right, the throw was good, the rookie receiver screwed up by not running through it for some unknown reason.

I'm more hacked off by the two shotgun dives up the middle on first and second down, even if they were read options. You've got to give yourself a chance to stay ahead of the chains. You can't just go into a shell. The Bears RBs struggled to gain yards all day. For some reason Herbert (2.2 ypc) got 16 carries in his first game back from IR whereas Johnson (5.0 ypc) only got 6 carries. The most effective runner, the one the Lions feared, was Fields. Keep the ball in his hands with the game on the line and let him pass or run depending on what he sees. Instead they neutered him with the game on the line.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

He played really well against a damn good defense on his first game back with an injured throwing hand.

The Oline struggled with the run -certainly in the first half - but overall I thought the pass protection held up well.

I hated some of the offensive calls. 3rd and 1 near the red zone, go for a tush-push and end up 4th and 2 = kick a FG.

Please please please can we stop going for the tush-push. Flus loves it but we always fuck it up.

Forget it, bin it, never ever run it again.

[malk]

I'm not sure the Lions have a good defence? It isn't awful but they're around 20th in PPG for the league so at best a little below average.

I thought Fields looked really good but wouldn't go so far as to say he had a great same. 169 yards passing just isn't enough, even with 100 yards via his legs. But the most concerning thing was having to settle for 4 field goals. Plus for all the defence went to hell in the last 3 minutes, they also produced 4 turnovers which we only turned into 10 points.

So pretty good for his first game back but I'm not ready to call it great yet and he still needs to improve.

[dplank]

I dont want to quibble with semantics - great or very good, whichever folks prefer is fine.

I would say though Malk, regarding the passing yards, that with Fields you always have to look at combined yards. Every time he runs it’s one less pass rep that he has towards his passing numbers. And as was said before the game (so no hindsight) his running and a ball control offense designed to keep Detroit off the field was the game plan. And it worked. So I view his combined yards, nearly 300, as really good.

The other thing I look at is just the feel of it from watching the game - 100% independent of stats. He was in total control, showed great awareness and vision all day, minimized mistakes and negative plays, and was undeniably the best player in the football field while the Bears were on offense. That’s exactly what I was looking for from him, and he delivered it.

Give me 6 more games just like it please.

[RichH55]

I'm not sure the Lions have a good defence? It isn't awful but they're around 20th in PPG for the league so at best a little below average.

I thought Fields looked really good but wouldn't go so far as to say he had a great same. 169 yards passing just isn't enough, even with 100 yards via his legs. But the most concerning thing was having to settle for 4 field goals. Plus for all the defence went to hell in the last 3 minutes, they also produced 4 turnovers which we only turned into 10 points.

So pretty good for his first game back but I'm not ready to call it great yet and he still needs to improve.

This is again - pretty much where I fall.

If this Lions game (for the last 7 here) is the highwater mark - then that's not great

If it's closer to the median????? Then you very well really have something

4 turnovers from the Defense isn't likely to reoccur every week though

[wab]

The Lions have the #2 rushing defense and Fields put 105 yards on them.

That has to count for something, no?

[thunderspirit]

The Lions have the #2 rushing defense and Fields put 105 yards on them.

That has to count for something, no?

Fields led an offense that put up 26 points, and watched his team's defense give up 17 points in less than 3 game minutes.

But yeah, his fault.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Fields last 4 games:

• 132.7 passer rating, 28 of 35 (80.0%), 335 yards (9.6 ypa), 4 TD, 1 INT
  4 carries for 25 yards (6.3 ypc)
  Total yardage: 360 yards

• 125.3 passer rating, 15 of 29 (51.7%), 282 yards (9.7 ypa), 4 TD, 0 INT
  11 carries for 57 yards (ypc 5.2)
  Total yardage: 339 yards

• 36.7 passer rating, 13 of 19 (60.0%), 58 yards (5.8 ypa), 0 TD, 1 INT
  8 carries for 46 yards (5.8 ypc)
  Total yardage: 104 yards

• 105.2 passer rating, 16 of 23 (69.6%), 169 yards (7.3 ypa), 1 TD, 0 INT
  18 carries for 104 yards (5.8 ypc)
  Total yardage: 274 yards

With the exception of the Vikings game where he played just over half the offensive snaps (53%) that's a good set of numbers. If puts up similar ones in most of the remaining 6 games then it would be foolish to move on from him, especially when he has a year left on his rookie deal and a 5th year option. The better option by far would be to build up the talent around him, give him every chance to improve further and if he doesn't pan out then move on in a year or two with a strong roster for the next guy.

The rematch against the Vikings next Monday will be a fascinating yardstick to measure him against. If he performs well, on a national stage, then that will go a long way to erasing the previous poor performance and help solidify that has been on an upward trend since the Denver game.

[Grizzled]

Fields produced 273 yards of offense, a good number. This loss is on the coaching staff, failures both offensively and defensively.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

So some Chicago QBs you can ignore their total passing yardage and laud them for how quick they throw it but other Chicago bears QBs it’s all about total passing yardage.

Some folks need some consistency

[malk]

The Lions have the #2 rushing defense and Fields put 105 yards on them.

That has to count for something, no?

(Asking genuinely here!) I wonder how much the #2 rushing defence applies to defending Fields? We don't have a conventional rushing attack and a lot of his yards aren't on designed runs so I think it's a little bit of a different beast. Which isn't to say his 100 yards aren't good/impressive etc.

Then on the flipside to their rushing defence, they've given up 16 TDs which is bottom 10 in the league. So he might have over performed against their rush defence but that means his 1 TD and 169 yards were a bit of an underperformance against their passing D?

@thunderspirit I haven't seen anyone say it is Fields' fault. He had a good game, I just don't think it was great.

@Ditka’s dictaphone I personally don't think Fields and Bagent should be directly compared. One is a rookie and the other a 3rd year pro. That isn't to say that one shouldn't make some comparisons, it'd be silly not to given they've got a similar working situation (the same one bar for game to game variations), but when evaluating Fields' potential and Bagents' you have to take into account their relative experience levels. It'd be crazy not to.

[LacertineForest]

Some folks need some consistency

Justin Fields?

(just kidding)

I wasn't able to watch - I caught most of the second half on the radio, but it sounds like he had the type of game he needed to have and it really was the coaching staff/defense that let him down yesterday. Looking at the stat line, I will say it was disappointing to not even crack 200 yards in the air and to settle for four FGs, but game situations/gameplans (in the case of the focused rushing attack) sometimes work out that way. If he plays like he did yesterday for the rest of the season, they'll probably end up with 7 wins.

[Moriarty]

The Lions have the #2 rushing defense and Fields put 105 yards on them.

That has to count for something, no?

Something, I suppose, but not as much as it sounds like at first.


The Lions are good at stopping the run* when it's a RB on a run play.
A QB running, mostly on passing downs, mostly against pass personnel who are executing pass rush/coverage assignments is not exactly apples to apples.


Also, 105 yds of QB rush is a lot...but he also had 18 runs, which is also a lot. That comes to 5.8 per, when the NFL average for yds per passing attempt is somewhere around 7.0, so it's not like it was great efficiency or anything.



* I'm not seeing 2 at anything, but top 5-10 at least. Maybe before the game? Although it doesn't seem like it ought to have moved them that much.

[dplank]

He will never win with certain people. That's just glaringly obvious to me.

[artbest01]

This game was reminiscent of what we saw from Fields a year ago from the NE game onward. The game plan clearly was aimed at trying to win the game with what they had rather than trying to make Justin Fields something he may not be. The Bears controlled most of the game and found a way to lose in historic fashion.

The question for me is whether this kind of approach is sustainable. Having Justin carry the ball 18 times seems to be setting him up for a beating. A year ago, he clearly was badly fatigued and beat up as the season wore on.

I'm hoping he learned from a rough outing against Minnesota and handles the blitz much better next Monday night. With Dobbs starting, this is a "winnable" game. Would be nice for Justin to get his second win in his career against a NFC North opponent.

As far as Fields' future, it seemingly hinges on:

* his play over the next 6 games

* who is coaching the Bears next season

* where the Bears are drafting next April

* what the Bears think about Caleb Williams' and Drake Mayes' long-term potential versus Justin's.

A lot of folks on message boards and social media have jumped off the Caleb Williams bandwagon due to lesser stats this season and questions about his maturity (blowing off post game press conferences). Have NFL teams also done so? How do NFL teams really feel about Drake Maye? If the Bears hire a new head coach, and they have the first or second pick in the draft, is said head coach going to want to stick with Justin Fields or will he want a fresh start with his own guy? I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to vacuous spit-balling, but, in reality, what would a new head coach want to do with Fields?

[dplank]

This game was reminiscent of what we saw from Fields a year ago from the NE game onward. The game plan clearly was aimed at trying to win the game with what they had rather than trying to make Justin Fields something he may not be. The Bears controlled most of the game and found a way to lose in historic fashion.

The question for me is whether this kind of approach is sustainable. Having Justin carry the ball 18 times seems to be setting him up for a beating. A year ago, he clearly was badly fatigued and beat up as the season wore on.

I'm hoping he learned from a rough outing against Minnesota and handles the blitz much better next Monday night. With Dobbs starting, this is a "winnable" game. Would be nice for Justin to get his second win in his career against a NFC North opponent.

As far as Fields' future, it seemingly hinges on:

* his play over the next 6 games

* who is coaching the Bears next season

* where the Bears are drafting next April

* what the Bears think about Caleb Williams' and Drake Mayes' long-term potential versus Justin's.

A lot of folks on message boards and social media have jumped off the Caleb Williams bandwagon due to lesser stats this season and questions about his maturity (blowing off post game press conferences). Have NFL teams also done so? How do NFL teams really feel about Drake Maye? If the Bears hire a new head coach, and they have the first or second pick in the draft, is said head coach going to want to stick with Justin Fields or will he want a fresh start with his own guy? I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to vacuous spit-balling, but, in reality, what would a new head coach want to do with Fields?

I do think this is sustainable Art, but the injury issue is what worries me. I look at the Ravens and Lamar, he's STILL winning games at an alarming rate and playing this style of football. But again, injuries have held Lamar and the Ravens back from winning a championship.

That said, let this sink in for a moment Art - Lamar Jackson is in his 6th year now (so plenty of time to say this style is 'sustainable') and is a REMARKABLE 53-19. That's not a typo, Lamar Jackson is 53-19 since entering the NFL. Here they are, yet again, at 8-3 this season. This is what I want for the Bears, a consistent winning franchise that is a threat year in and year out.

Russell Wilson, another good comp, has a career record of 113-69. We could only be so fortunate.

The downside is injuries and shortened careers. But I'll take that over the disaster QB situation we've had for the last 40 years.

[Z Bear]

I thought Fields played a fantastic game, but no one is mentioning his worst play of the day. He followed that up with his best run of the day so it sounds like everyone forgot about it. 2nd and 6 just inside of field goal range with a 9 point lead. This is a situation where you can't take a sack...but he did to put us in 3rd and 16 and very close to being out of field goal range. The line actually held up but Justin was big game hunting instead of taking what the defense gave him, which was each flat. He had Lewis open on the left flat and the RB (Johnson I think) wide open in the right flat. Both probably would of been short of the marker unless they made someone miss, but it would of left them with a short third down istead of a long one. Fields then bailed them out and made a ridiculous run to get the first down and then some, then did that little dance on the sideline.

That series was a perfect example of the highs and lows of Fields. He needs to be able to just take what the D gives him to move into the elite category. He has all the tools you need to get there so hopefully the next staff can actually coach him up.

[The Marshall Plan]

At this point, I’m not against replacing JF1. My bias is against doing that given the opportunity cost and rebuilding time.

I would need to know what immediate incremental improvement we would see with a change. I would need the HC candidate to sell me on it.

Tell me why Drake Maye(?) is better than JF1 + MHJ.

Moving on from JF1 is a big fricking deal that sets us back 2 to 3 years plus the loss of great prospects in this year’s draft.

That isn’t something you rubber stamp.

[dplank]

At this point, I’m not against replacing JF1. My bias is against doing that given the opportunity cost and rebuilding time.

I would need to know what immediate incremental improvement we would see with a change. I would need the HC candidate to sell me on it.

Moving on from JF1 is a big fricking deal that sets us back 2 to 3 years plus the loss of great prospects in this year’s draft.

That isn’t something you rubber stamp.

Right - and in your other post, you correctly noted how Poles has rebuilt this roster in a year and a half. We gotta remember it's 1.5 years in on Poles, and this team already looks like it has a lot of promise. So given that, why would you revert back minimum 2 years by resetting at the QB position (unless you trade for a good vet I suppose). And at the same time, you burn your top pick also, likely costing you MHJr. It just doesn't make sense to me at all. Fields may not play the game the way some rigid fans might want him to play it, but he's good enough to win with and we need to stop this hamster wheel. Just keep stacking talent on this team, we're friggin close.