Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Ask the question this way: if the season ended today, we are picking high, and a QB is there for us. Do you draft the QB or trade down? I trade down, we have our QB and now we need to build around him.

This is so “Bears fan” to me. The NATIONAL media is fawning all over a Bears QB, literally mentioning him in MVP talk and calling him the best playmaker in the NFL, and it’s still not good enough! We’ve literally never seen this happen here, not ever. A few RBs and a few of our defensive players caught league attention this way, never a QB. Y2, new offense, terrible surrounding talent. My god people…..

A QB?

Errr no, we have holes all over the roster, but we don’t need a rookie QB

[Rusty Trombagent]

Ask the question this way: if the season ended today, we are picking high, and a QB is there for us. Do you draft the QB or trade down? I trade down, we have our QB and now we need to build around him.

This is so “Bears fan” to me. The NATIONAL media is fawning all over a Bears QB, literally mentioning him in MVP talk and calling him the best playmaker in the NFL, and it’s still not good enough! We’ve literally never seen this happen here, not ever. A few RBs and a few of our defensive players caught league attention this way, never a QB. Y2, new offense, terrible surrounding talent. My god people…..

TO BE FAIR, I could spend the next 10 minutes quoting MANY PEOPLE here (including you) complaining that the media doesn't do their homework and is completely unreliable. It's like PFF grades, they only count if they reinforce your point, otherwise they're useless.

Beyond that, I'd be suprised if anyone here, even Rich, is giving up on Fields this early. If nothing else, this team needs a lot of talent and the next guy would be just as fucked.

You guys keep wanting to paint any criticism at all as some absurd vendetta against Fields. WE ALL WANT HIM TO SUCCEED. Yeah he's special, but "special" guys dont work out in the NFL all the time. Admitting there's a chance he could flame out (Robert Griffin comes to mind) doesnt make one a hater. It's childish to say this.

[The Marshall Plan]

Ask the question this way: if the season ended today, we are picking high, and a QB is there for us. Do you draft the QB or trade down? I trade down, we have our QB and now we need to build around him.

This is so “Bears fan” to me. The NATIONAL media is fawning all over a Bears QB, literally mentioning him in MVP talk and calling him the best playmaker in the NFL, and it’s still not good enough! We’ve literally never seen this happen here, not ever. A few RBs and a few of our defensive players caught league attention this way, never a QB. Y2, new offense, terrible surrounding talent. My god people…..

TO BE FAIR, I could spend the next 10 minutes quoting MANY PEOPLE here (including you) complaining that the media doesn't do their homework and is completely unreliable. It's like PFF grades, they only count if they reinforce your point, otherwise they're useless.

Beyond that, I'd be suprised if anyone here, even Rich, is giving up on Fields this early. If nothing else, this team needs a lot of talent and the next guy would be just as fucked.

You guys keep wanting to paint any criticism at all as some absurd vendetta against Fields. WE ALL WANT HIM TO SUCCEED. Yeah he's special, but "special" guys dont work out in the NFL all the time. Admitting there's a chance he could flame out (Robert Griffin comes to mind) doesnt make one a hater. It's childish to say this.

So when you take DMT, do the machine elves also give you their opinion on Fields or are you stone cold sober when you post?

[The Marshall Plan]

Today wasn't his best day, could see a 10-10 but agree with 9-10. I also wonder if maybe Rich has seen enough to go ahead and throw in the towel on this debate and agree that Fields is a franchise QB?

The Troll’s argument about JF1 got the Rocky 4 Apollo Creed treatment about four weeks ago.

Now it’s just laying there on the ring floor twitching because the central nervous system doesn’t realize the rest of the body is dead yet.

[HurricaneBear]

Ask the question this way: if the season ended today, we are picking high, and a QB is there for us. Do you draft the QB or trade down? I trade down, we have our QB and now we need to build around him.

This is so “Bears fan” to me. The NATIONAL media is fawning all over a Bears QB, literally mentioning him in MVP talk and calling him the best playmaker in the NFL, and it’s still not good enough! We’ve literally never seen this happen here, not ever. A few RBs and a few of our defensive players caught league attention this way, never a QB. Y2, new offense, terrible surrounding talent. My god people…..

TO BE FAIR, I could spend the next 10 minutes quoting MANY PEOPLE here (including you) complaining that the media doesn't do their homework and is completely unreliable. It's like PFF grades, they only count if they reinforce your point, otherwise they're useless.

Beyond that, I'd be suprised if anyone here, even Rich, is giving up on Fields this early. If nothing else, this team needs a lot of talent and the next guy would be just as fucked.

You guys keep wanting to paint any criticism at all as some absurd vendetta against Fields. WE ALL WANT HIM TO SUCCEED. Yeah he's special, but "special" guys dont work out in the NFL all the time. Admitting there's a chance he could flame out (Robert Griffin comes to mind) doesnt make one a hater. It's childish to say this.

If that's childish, then it's also kind of a dick move to go into a thread titled delirious excitement, while the player the thread is about is balling out, and point out flaws/negative outcomes.

You want to focus on flaws or possible negative outcomes that's fine. Then stay out of the thread dedicated to being over the top happy about the player. Or put down your "realist" side while in this thread and get drunk on the coolaid. It's literally what this thread is for.

[Rusty Trombagent]

Hurricane my good buddy, that's a weird argument. I started that thread!

[Moriarty]

Hurricane my good buddy, that's a weird argument. I started that thread!

Nice irony.

Sure, it was a thread for celebrating the pick......a year and a half ago, when he was new and hadn't thrown so much as a preseason pass.

Now that he has an actual track record, it's become the all purpose Discuss Fields thread.

The notion that we should have a Talk About Fields - But Only if You Want to Say Positive Things thread, and then a Talk About Fields - But Only if You Want to Say Negative Things thread, and then maybe a Talk About Fields - But Only if You Carefully Balance Positive and Negative Equally thread, is a bit much.

[Arkansasbear]

Hurricane my good buddy, that's a weird argument. I started that thread!

Nice irony.

Sure, it was a thread for celebrating the pick......a year and a half ago, when he was new and hadn't thrown so much as a preseason pass.

Now that he has an actual track record, it's become the all purpose Discuss Fields thread.

The notion that we should have a Talk About Fields - But Only if You Want to Say Positive Things thread, and then a Talk About Fields - But Only if You Want to Say Negative Things thread, and then maybe a Talk About Fields - But Only if You Carefully Balance Positive and Negative Equally thread, is a bit much.

That's kind of the blessing and curse of this board. The admins tend to merge things together to keep a topic in one place and people do a really good job of finding old thread to keep topics together. Some places after a game you might have 3-4 threads all talking about how "player X" performed in the game.

So maybe given that this have become the "Let's talk about Fields" topic the admins should change the title. Kind of how the Roquan thread went from "Roquan holds out" to "Roquan ends hold" to "Roquan, he's gone."

Just a though.

[The Marshall Plan]

Hurricane my good buddy, that's a weird argument. I started that thread!

Nice irony.

Sure, it was a thread for celebrating the pick......a year and a half ago, when he was new and hadn't thrown so much as a preseason pass.

Now that he has an actual track record, it's become the all purpose Discuss Fields thread.

The notion that we should have a Talk About Fields - But Only if You Want to Say Positive Things thread, and then a Talk About Fields - But Only if You Want to Say Negative Things thread, and then maybe a Talk About Fields - But Only if You Carefully Balance Positive and Negative Equally thread, is a bit much.

Point of order Mr. Chairman.

I think there is value in having a thread called something like, “Justin Fields Suggestion Box” or “Justin Fields Leaves The Seat Up” for the nitpicky things like his feet or his ball holding duration.

[wab]

You guys keep wanting to paint any criticism at all as some absurd vendetta against Fields. WE ALL WANT HIM TO SUCCEED.

This is the point I was trying to make the other day. I can be absolutely enthralled with how electric and exciting Fields has been...cheer my ass off for him and marvel at the things he does on Sunday...and still hope/point out he has room to grow in the passing game.

I don't understand the absolutism that is applied to Fields around here.

[dplank]

Ask the question this way: if the season ended today, we are picking high, and a QB is there for us. Do you draft the QB or trade down? I trade down, we have our QB and now we need to build around him.

This is so “Bears fan” to me. The NATIONAL media is fawning all over a Bears QB, literally mentioning him in MVP talk and calling him the best playmaker in the NFL, and it’s still not good enough! We’ve literally never seen this happen here, not ever. A few RBs and a few of our defensive players caught league attention this way, never a QB. Y2, new offense, terrible surrounding talent. My god people…..

TO BE FAIR, I could spend the next 10 minutes quoting MANY PEOPLE here (including you) complaining that the media doesn't do their homework and is completely unreliable. It's like PFF grades, they only count if they reinforce your point, otherwise they're useless.

Beyond that, I'd be suprised if anyone here, even Rich, is giving up on Fields this early. If nothing else, this team needs a lot of talent and the next guy would be just as fucked.

You guys keep wanting to paint any criticism at all as some absurd vendetta against Fields. WE ALL WANT HIM TO SUCCEED. Yeah he's special, but "special" guys dont work out in the NFL all the time. Admitting there's a chance he could flame out (Robert Griffin comes to mind) doesnt make one a hater. It's childish to say this.

That doesn't answer the question and creates a mini strawman in it's place - I'm not painting your take as an absurd vendetta AT ALL, you just made that up. I more view your take as, for lack of a better phrasing, ungrateful. He's the best QB I've ever seen in a Bears uniform, but I primarily see criticisms at the parts he needs to work on (coupled with a lack of acknowledgement that he's in Y2, offense is in Y1, and talent around him is awful) when I'd expect to see more appreciation for the fact that our 100 year QB search appears to be over.

But back to the question, which was very clear. You are picking high and a QB is there, based on what we know right now do you draft the QB or don't you? It's a very simple question and completely separate from the "does Fields still have room for improvement" discussion, which is entirely valid. I don't have to bob and weave on my answer, my answer is NO. We have our QB IMO, and it's time to build around him. What say you?

[HurricaneBear]

Hurricane my good buddy, that's a weird argument. I started that thread!

You did, but your posts lately are not deleriously excited. You have every right to not be. But this thread, as of my last post, was still titled Delerious Excitement over Fields. If the point of this thread is no longer that, then the suggestion someone made to change the title should be taken. It would help people like me who only read the threads about topics I care about. I come into this thread to chug the Fields koolaid because that's what it says it should be about. If I want to hear more objective talk, I go to the game thread or the injury thread or whatever thread is appropriate.

[RichH55]

Not every time when someone disagrees with you or points out errors of logic or consistency is that a "Strawman"

Just like when someone disagrees with a point a poster makes thats not automatically a personal attack.

[Moriarty]

He's the best QB I've ever seen in a Bears uniform, but I primarily see criticisms at the parts he needs to work on when I'd expect to see more appreciation for the fact that our 100 year QB search appears to be over.

I consider your (and a few other people, I think) assessments of him overly generous, which, I imagine is why they tend to engender criticism of Fields.
You're going too far and that generates pushback.

[HurricaneBear]

You guys keep wanting to paint any criticism at all as some absurd vendetta against Fields. WE ALL WANT HIM TO SUCCEED.

This is the point I was trying to make the other day. I can be absolutely enthralled with how electric and exciting Fields has been...cheer my ass off for him and marvel at the things he does on Sunday...and still hope/point out he has room to grow in the passing game.

I don't understand the absolutism that is applied to Fields around here.

Then change the title of this thread or start a thread thats not "Delerious Excitement over Fields"

It seems a little off to keep saying what you and rusty are saying in this particular thread.

[dplank]

He's the best QB I've ever seen in a Bears uniform, but I primarily see criticisms at the parts he needs to work on when I'd expect to see more appreciation for the fact that our 100 year QB search appears to be over.

I consider your assessments over-generous, which, I imagine is why they tend to engender criticism of Fields.
You're going too far and that generates pushback.

Who's better? Cutler?

[HurricaneBear]

Hurricane my good buddy, that's a weird argument. I started that thread!

Nice irony.

Sure, it was a thread for celebrating the pick......a year and a half ago, when he was new and hadn't thrown so much as a preseason pass.

Now that he has an actual track record, it's become the all purpose Discuss Fields thread.

The notion that we should have a Talk About Fields - But Only if You Want to Say Positive Things thread, and then a Talk About Fields - But Only if You Want to Say Negative Things thread, and then maybe a Talk About Fields - But Only if You Carefully Balance Positive and Negative Equally thread, is a bit much.

Then the thread title should be changed. The thread is titled Delirious Excitement over Fields. It's the one spot where TMP, dplank, IE, myself and all the other Fields fanatics should be able to go without having to hear the opposite side. I wont speak for those others, but I don't go into the other threads and start yelling at people to only say good things about Fields. But in THIS THREAD, hell yeah, get the fuck out if you want to say bullshit, or you know, change the title and stop giving us the wrong impression.

[dplank]

Not every time when someone disagrees with you or points out errors of logic or consistency is that a "Strawman"

Just like when someone disagrees with a point a poster makes thats not automatically a personal attack.

I asked a clear question, which was if we are in a position to draft a QB this year, would you or wouldn't you. The response I got was "I'd be suprised if anyone here, even Rich, is giving up on Fields this early. "

The definition of a strawman argument is: "A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

Rustin is a good poster, I don't think it was purposeful unlike....others.

[Moriarty]

I consider your assessments over-generous, which, I imagine is why they tend to engender criticism of Fields.
You're going too far and that generates pushback.

Who's better? Cutler?

The first statement is the safer one.
There's almost no competition - which makes it one of those things that sounds like a big deal, but it really, really isn't.
(Although for the sake of arguing, if I had a great team ready to make a serious run at it all, I'd definitely rather have 1995 Erik Kramer than 2022 Justin Fields. What makes Fields special right now is the constant running and there's no reason to believe (and quite a bit of reason not to) that he can stay healthy for 20 games playing that way.)


The second one I have much more problem with - which is kind of sprinkled throughout various threads here.
I don't think the Bears are remotely 'set' at QB right now.
If Fields stays as is,
a) He's going to get broken. Often. And eventually, permanently.
b) No yardage will drive quality receivers away
c) Even producing roughly his typical 150/100 yesterday, they still got an ordinary 24 points (with KR aid) and lost to a mediocre at best opponent


He's got plenty of growing to do before he's solidified as a long-term solution.

[Rusty Trombagent]

TO BE FAIR, I could spend the next 10 minutes quoting MANY PEOPLE here (including you) complaining that the media doesn't do their homework and is completely unreliable. It's like PFF grades, they only count if they reinforce your point, otherwise they're useless.

Beyond that, I'd be suprised if anyone here, even Rich, is giving up on Fields this early. If nothing else, this team needs a lot of talent and the next guy would be just as fucked.

You guys keep wanting to paint any criticism at all as some absurd vendetta against Fields. WE ALL WANT HIM TO SUCCEED. Yeah he's special, but "special" guys dont work out in the NFL all the time. Admitting there's a chance he could flame out (Robert Griffin comes to mind) doesnt make one a hater. It's childish to say this.

That doesn't answer the question and creates a mini strawman in it's place - I'm not painting your take as an absurd vendetta AT ALL, you just made that up. I more view your take as, for lack of a better phrasing, ungrateful. He's the best QB I've ever seen in a Bears uniform, but I primarily see criticisms at the parts he needs to work on (coupled with a lack of acknowledgement that he's in Y2, offense is in Y1, and talent around him is awful) when I'd expect to see more appreciation for the fact that our 100 year QB search appears to be over.

But back to the question, which was very clear. You are picking high and a QB is there, based on what we know right now do you draft the QB or don't you? It's a very simple question and completely separate from the "does Fields still have room for improvement" discussion, which is entirely valid. I don't have to bob and weave on my answer, my answer is NO. We have our QB IMO, and it's time to build around him. What say you?

I think he's an incredible running back. As far as a passer, he's throwing sub 60% completion percentage, which is 31st in the league, and throwing for 128 yards per game, which is last in the league. At this point in Justin's career Cutler is a much better QB than he is. I dont care about his running right now, it's not sustainable as a weapon. Good teams can and will shut this down... we just saw that yesterday.

I started this thread because I'm absolutely in love with his potential, and he seems like an incredible dude. But it's all theoretical right now, and some of us are more interested in talking about where he is right now instead of where we're imagining he's going to go.

I have no interest in drafting a qb next year.

[wab]

This is the point I was trying to make the other day. I can be absolutely enthralled with how electric and exciting Fields has been...cheer my ass off for him and marvel at the things he does on Sunday...and still hope/point out he has room to grow in the passing game.

I don't understand the absolutism that is applied to Fields around here.

Then change the title of this thread or start a thread thats not "Delerious Excitement over Fields"

It seems a little off to keep saying what you and rusty are saying in this particular thread.

I think is ridiculous that people continue to insinuate that myself, along with many others, are not excited about Fields simply because we point out areas of opportunity for growth.

Jesus Christ, nuance really has died on this board this year.

[dplank]

Rustin, How do you handicap the first 5 games vs the last 5? Which seems like a better representation of where Fields is?

[The Marshall Plan]

You guys keep wanting to paint any criticism at all as some absurd vendetta against Fields. WE ALL WANT HIM TO SUCCEED.

This is the point I was trying to make the other day. I can be absolutely enthralled with how electric and exciting Fields has been...cheer my ass off for him and marvel at the things he does on Sunday...and still hope/point out he has room to grow in the passing game.

I don't understand the absolutism that is applied to Fields around here.

Not absolutism.

Rather a realistic expectation of what we want out of a QB who is 1.5 years in on his second HC and OC with a limited supporting at best and no defense.

There is a vibe that the Bitch Fest Free Expectation is for Fields to be this Christ-Like figure feeding an entire stadium with one hot dog and an order of fries.

His feet.
His arm angle.
His ball holding time (my favorite).

And on and on and on.

If that’s what we’re going to be dealing with for the next ten years as we discuss JF1, then a shit ton of people around should contact a therapist via their EAP and then a medical doctor for several prescriptions for anti-anxiety meds.

[wab]

So absolutism then...

[wab]

And to answer DP's question. Hell no, absolutely no way I'm drafting a QB. Fields has all the potential in the world.

That's a pretty stark argument without a lot of room for discussion though.

[G08]

What the fuck is going on in here...

[dplank]

And to answer DP's question. Hell no, absolutely no way I'm drafting a QB. Fields has all the potential in the world.

That's a pretty stark argument without a lot of room for discussion though.

It is - but it's a notable point of reference because 2 months ago I bet half the board would have drafted a QB (I was waffling myself). Now I suspect none would.

[The Marshall Plan]

What the fuck is going on in here...

Oh sure….NOW you show up.

Just your typical Bears forum QB debate.

Compared to Cutler and especially Mitch this is extraordinarily mild.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

Ask the question this way: if the season ended today, we are picking high, and a QB is there for us. Do you draft the QB or trade down? I trade down, we have our QB and now we need to build around him.

This is so “Bears fan” to me. The NATIONAL media is fawning all over a Bears QB, literally mentioning him in MVP talk and calling him the best playmaker in the NFL, and it’s still not good enough! We’ve literally never seen this happen here, not ever. A few RBs and a few of our defensive players caught league attention this way, never a QB. Y2, new offense, terrible surrounding talent. My god people…..

Maybe your point is moot because JF1 isn't going to last very long with the beating he's been taking.

[dplank]

Rustin (and all)......forget the hyperbole and just take in these FACTS.

Justin Fields over the last 5 weeks:

Average Passing Yards per game: 154.6
Average Rushing Yards per game: 110.6
Average Total Yards per game: 265.2
Average Team Points scored per game: 29.6
Average Completion Percentage: 64.6%
TD (all) : Turnovers (all): 15:3
TD:INT (passing only): 9:3 (3:1)
QBR: 99.06
Additional Note: He broke the all time single game rushing record by a QB (Vick) and the all time 2-game rushing total by a QB.

He has accomplished this given these circumstances: Being a Y2 QB, being in a new offense with a Y1 OC/Playcaller, with an OL that struggles mightily in pass protection, and a sub par (to say the least) set of pass catchers.

I find this fucking incredible to be honest. I'm not mad when people want to see his passing game improve, but IT HAS. Fields also does not call the plays, Getsy does, so the lack of pass attempts falls on him mostly (some on Fields too for scrambling occasionally when he should pass, but those are often off set by great runs).

Any Bears fan who is not happy with this post needs to see a shrink immediately. What the actual fuck are we doing here? He's making mind blowing plays every single game now, and the takeaway by some is mostly NEGATIVE? Because you don't see it as either sustainable or not the style of play you want? GMAFB. This is what I see as being ungrateful. He's doing all this IN SPITE OF those circumstances, maybe consider those circumstances before complaining that he isn't doing enough with his arm vs legs? Maybe as the OL and pass catchers improve and we get into Y2 of the offense we will see more arm vs legs? And instead of citing year long stats to purposely deflate his current status, look at where he is right now as this offense is starting to gel a bit - it's a far more accurate view.