Yep to all this. I think some of the potential disagreement comes down to nuances in definition. I see a difference between "results as a passer" and "abilities as a passer".dplank wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:47 am He's definitely not there yet as a passer. I'm not sure if there's anyone on the board that would say otherwise, maybe I'm wrong about that. I think the board chasm is based on how far away people think he is, and whether he's on track or not. I strongly believe that he over achieved given his circumstances - the "given his circumstances" being the key point. His circumstances were absolutely dismal, and that severely skews his stats. So any "stat" view purely of his passing numbers is so immaterial to me I simply wave it off as nonsense. I don't care how many sub 200 yard games he had, I value that particular stat about as much as I value a kick in the nuts. It's so devoid of context that it gives the appearance to many, myself included, that it's being used to slander him unnecessarily.
So when looking at him and where he needs to go next, I think everyone here agrees he needs to take the next step as a passer. And I think everyone here agrees that in order for that to happen, multiple things need to occur:
1. He needs to improve his own read/recognition/timing and "throw guys open" / with anticipation more. That's all on JF1.
2. He needs better WR's who can get open more consistently
3. He needs a OL that can pass protect better than a Pee Wee league team
Final point: Even if all of these things happen, Fields pure passing stats will likely still be dampened when viewed against his pass happy peers. This will be a simple function of the fact that Getsy believes in a run first attack plan. Fields will have less pass attempts and more rush attempts than guys like Mahomes or Herbert. Comparing his passing numbers to guys like that will never line up properly and will always require more insight than a pure statistical view.
I think 2 and 3 above here are absolutely true and are big reasons why JF1 hasn't been able to consistently demonstrate his full capabilities as a passer. And then also a lot is still on him. There's no question he's still early in learning mode on reading defenses and anticipation (and trust) of his targets. But at the same time I DO think he's demonstrated the passer he IS skill-wise and CAN BE more consistently. Why is this distinction important? I think he's put it on tape sufficiently and broadly enough to dismiss "accidental good plays" (lol) and fear about what he is. So if someone asks me "is he there as a passer?" my answer is yes. But he needs help and reps to realize consistency and get the results we need and he is clearly (IMO anyway) capable of delivering.