Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

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Arkansasbear
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RichH55 wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:15 pm
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:30 pm From the same article:



What's interesting is that if you watch that play and set aside the sheer admiration for Fields ability to escape and keep the play alive for so long, you can see the issue that many continue to highlight - namely Fields not throwing when he could.

In the clip of this play below (thanks thunderspirit for the Twitter link above), Fields starts off looking down the middle then progresses to his left. There is nothing there so he then progresses to his right. All this is great; he's going through his progressions from one side of the field to the other. But at the 4 second mark you can clearly see that Kmet is wide open on the right and Fields doesn't let the ball go. It's possible that he sees two defenders beginning to close on Kmet and figures he won't make the first down, and that's what the Twitter poster surmises as well, but he should play the percentages and take what's there.



Whilst I love that Fields is always looking to make a play and get the ball past the sticks, he has to learn to balance that with making the sensible choice when a throw is there to be made. He has to trust that sometimes his receiver will break a tackle or make a guy miss and make the play for him.

I will add that he has thrown the ball away a couple of times recently, which he wasn't doing earlier in the season. I think that's a good sign. I think his decision making is showing signs of improving albeit slowly.

I have noticed the throwing away as well - good sign

Problem for people who love QB rating though
I think the QB rating can give you some insight, but it is clearly not the best tool to evaluation QBs. Those that do LOVE it for QB evaluation probably also like cats. So their opinion means little to me.
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Yogi da Bear
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I'm in a quandary. I've never been a QB, or even coached one in little leagues, so I just don't know. But it seems to me that the biggest critique of Justin is his inability to "throw receivers open," to exploit the extremely tight windows in the NFL. But he's also criticized for not seeing the whole field. So how is he supposed to balance the two?

So, on the one hand, you have a receiver who appears to be covered and you're supposed to "throw him open." But on the other hand, you're also supposed to go through your progressions if that receiver is covered. So, you go through your progression when you see that receiver covered but by the time you return to the receiver, it's too late to make the throw. It seems that if you're going to throw a receiver open on a short throw (a slant, a dig, an out, something like that), you pretty much have to focus solely on that receiver. Then you get criticized for not seeing the whole field and just focusing on that one receiver (which is why a true #1 receiver is so important).

Now, some of the decisions can be rectified by identifying the defense, but others not so much. It also seems if you're going to scan to the field, then you appear limited to throwing somebody open to the longer routes, yet the Bear line seldom gives him that amount of time. And then when he runs, he's criticized for running too much. In the end, how do you balance these two? I guess it really only comes with experience.
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Ditka’s dictaphone
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It’s just game experience for me. He’ll get there, there is no doubt at all, but he’s not ready for the HoF after 1 and a half seasons :thumbsup:
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QBR can be used as supporting evidence along with lots of other evidence to make a point. Taken in isolation or without context its value is greatly diminished. This is true of all stats, including TTT or PFF Block win % or any other. So while it’s disingenuous to use one stat too forcefully and without corroborating evidence, it’s equally disingenuous to pull one stat out amidst a pile of evidence and use it as a singular method of poking holes in someone’s take. It’s often how straw men are born.
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xyt in the discord chats
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HisRoyalSweetness
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:44 am ... he’s not ready for the HoF after 1 and a half seasons :thumbsup:
:o Who are you and what have you done with Ditka's dictaphone?
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crueltyabc wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:53 pm
...and a heckuva contrast with the QB we're about to play.
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Justin is now 7th in nfl.com's QB Index.
NFL QB Index, Week 12

1. Patrick Mahomes
2. Jaylon Hurts
3. Josh Allen
4. Tua Tagovailoa
5. Joe Burrow
6. Lamar Jackson

7. Justin Fields

2022 stats: 11 games | 59.6 pct | 1,642 pass yds | 7.2 ypa | 13 pass TD | 8 INT | 834 rush yds | 7 rush TD | 13 fumbles

Fields toughed it out against Atlanta, playing through a hamstring issue and a late-game shoulder injury that now renders him day-to-day heading into Sunday's clash with the Jets. In clear discomfort, Fields still piled up 85 yards on the ground and chucked a few pretty passes, but Bears fans and fantasy heads know a shoulder injury could neutralize his aggressive scampering traits. Assuming he's good to go, Fields will face his biggest test yet against a white-knuckle Gang Green defense. Erasing Fields, though, is something nobody's done in a month-plus.

Full list: https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-w ... n-rankings
Justin Fields is now officially better than that GOAT and that git over in Green Bay. ;)
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Hurts over Allen tho?
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My sincere hope this off season is that Fields works on his accuracy and seeing the field. I am not convinced that he is seeing his Receivers. I was watching that play last week to Darnell Mooney, wide open for 6 but was overthrown and not uncommon with Fields. I don't want another Lamar Jackson or Michael Vick. Neither one of them has won a Superbowl. I want a Josh Allen or Justin Herbert. If Fields can improve his field vision and accuracy, that is what we could be getting.
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BigDaddy wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:47 pm I don't want another Lamar Jackson or Michael Vick. Neither one of them has won a Superbowl. I want a Josh Allen or Justin Herbert.
Um, neither Josh Allen nor Justin Herbert has won a Super Bowl either. ;)
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BigDaddy wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:47 pm I don't want another Lamar Jackson or Michael Vick. Neither one of them has won a Superbowl. I want a Josh Allen or Justin Herbert.
Lol
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crueltyabc wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:53 pm
A little more detail...
With apology, Justin Fields showed teammates he’s a ‘phenomenal leader’
...

Safety Eddie Jackson — the last link to the Bears’ once-dominant defense — stopped Fields in mid-apology, saying that the game doesn’t come down to one play. The team broke up the locker—room huddle after the 27-24 loss, and Fields took a golf cart to get X-rays on his shoulder.

The impact of what he said lasted longer.

“I play pretty much for those guys in the locker room,” Fields said.

“I see how much work they put in every day. So just having them as my teammates, having the leaders we do have on this team be there for everybody and lead like they do, I think it’s a big example of how our team is and how we’re built — and what our culture is here.”
...

“He doesn’t have to apologize,” said defensive tackle Justin Jones, a captain.
...

“Everybody stopped him,” wide receiver Darnell Mooney said. “ ‘It’s not you; it’s not just the offense; it’s everyone included. You can’t do everything by yourself.’ ’’

Veteran linebacker Nicholas Morrow called the move “bold,” saying he has never played alongside a quarterback who addressed the team to apologize.

“It’s a good leadership quality to take that type of responsibility and accountability,” he said. “At the same time, it’s 11 men on the field at a time, so we all have to take responsibility.”

Fields is a “phenomenal leader and an even greater player,” defensive end Trevis Gipson said. “He didn’t have to say anything, but it is a good thing he did, showing leadership skills and taking responsibility. We’re appreciative of him and how hard he works and what he brings to the team.”
...

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022 ... e-shoulder
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:01 pm [
With apology, Justin Fields showed teammates he’s a ‘phenomenal leader’
...

Safety Eddie Jackson — the last link to the Bears’ once-dominant defense — stopped Fields in mid-apology, saying that the game doesn’t come down to one play. The team broke up the locker—room huddle after the 27-24 loss, and Fields took a golf cart to get X-rays on his shoulder.

The impact of what he said lasted longer.

“I play pretty much for those guys in the locker room,” Fields said.

“I see how much work they put in every day. So just having them as my teammates, having the leaders we do have on this team be there for everybody and lead like they do, I think it’s a big example of how our team is and how we’re built — and what our culture is here.”
...

“He doesn’t have to apologize,” said defensive tackle Justin Jones, a captain.
...

“Everybody stopped him,” wide receiver Darnell Mooney said. “ ‘It’s not you; it’s not just the offense; it’s everyone included. You can’t do everything by yourself.’ ’’

Veteran linebacker Nicholas Morrow called the move “bold,” saying he has never played alongside a quarterback who addressed the team to apologize.

“It’s a good leadership quality to take that type of responsibility and accountability,” he said. “At the same time, it’s 11 men on the field at a time, so we all have to take responsibility.”

Fields is a “phenomenal leader and an even greater player,” defensive end Trevis Gipson said. “He didn’t have to say anything, but it is a good thing he did, showing leadership skills and taking responsibility. We’re appreciative of him and how hard he works and what he brings to the team.”
...

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022 ... e-shoulder
Man everything we have heard about him, hes an easy kid to root for. He really is. On the surface he seems like a genuinely good dude. I hope it works out.
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The Marshall Plan
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:27 pm
BigDaddy wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:47 pm I don't want another Lamar Jackson or Michael Vick. Neither one of them has won a Superbowl. I want a Josh Allen or Justin Herbert.
Um, neither Josh Allen nor Justin Herbert has won a Super Bowl either. ;)
As long as Baby GOAT Mahomes (who is a mobile QB) is in the AFC they most likely will not either.

More traditional pocket passers have won a substantial amount of the Super Bowls because they've been around longer and they make up a higher % of the QBs who play in any given year.

Mobile QBs have won Super Bowls. Elway, Young, Staubach, Mahomes, and Russell Wilson.

If being a pocket passer was the guarantied path to Super Bowl victories then Dan Marino would have a whole trophy case of them. So would Warren Moon.
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mmmc_35 wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:54 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:01 pm [

Man everything we have heard about him, hes an easy kid to root for. He really is. On the surface he seems like a genuinely good dude. I hope it works out.
If Justin puts it all together he really could be in the Chicago sports pantheon with Jordan and Sweetness. Decades of incompetence have beaten this bears' fan down, so I will have my concerns, but there aint no denying it's an exciting time in Chicago.
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Meanwhile in NY:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/jets-payin ... 48639.html

It's good to not be that team anymore.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:26 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:27 pm

Um, neither Josh Allen nor Justin Herbert has won a Super Bowl either. ;)
As long as Baby GOAT Mahomes (who is a mobile QB) is in the AFC they most likely will not either.

More traditional pocket passers have won a substantial amount of the Super Bowls because they've been around longer and they make up a higher % of the QBs who play in any given year.

Mobile QBs have won Super Bowls. Elway, Young, Staubach, Mahomes, and Russell Wilson.

If being a pocket passer was the guarantied path to Super Bowl victories then Dan Marino would have a whole trophy case of them. So would Warren Moon.
This is spot on TMP. The shift to mobile QB's is very clear and is where the game is headed, so there will be more and more opportunities for mobile QB's to win super bowls, and as that happens this old school narrative will change. It wasn't THAT long ago that it was widely believed in NFL circles that black QB's didn't have the mental acuity to play the position - one of the most blatantly racist tropes I've ever heard. But it was actually a thing! This "running QB" trope isn't racist per se, but it's similarly rooted in old thinking and hasn't caught up with the modern game. In 10 years, there will be more Josh Allen's, Kyler Murray's, and Justin Fields than there are "traditional" pocket passers.
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There is a Clear distinction between a Mobile QB and when you get to Lamar Jackson type QBs.

Having mobility - the option to do QB runs- etc. All very positive stuff. But it's a side dish and not a main course.

With the college game though - you will see more and more of it. OCs will adjust because they have to. Being a pocket passer and being the Defense with accuracy and anticipation will still be the Best way to beat a defense - you just won't have as many guys that do that

But can we stop calling things racist in 2022? Can we be just a touch better than that?
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Also - Mahomes really isn't mobile - He's got elite pocket presence and he's a perfectly cromulent athlete for the position. But he's a lot closer to a pocket passer than a runnings QB - ALOT
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RichH55 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:35 am Also - Mahomes really isn't mobile - He's got elite pocket presence and he's a perfectly cromulent athlete for the position. But he's a lot closer to a pocket passer than a runnings QB - ALOT
Agreed, 100%. Dude can often rip off a crippling 10 yard run and make it look easy, but it's so often because his dancing around the pocket has stressed the D to their limit. His pocket presence really is top 1% of all time.
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This was me in those games in which the Bears had one last drive to tie or win a game and Getsy didn't exactly call plays conducive to coming from behind:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mac-jones- ... 32305.html

Mac Jones actually says "Throw the fucking ball. The fucking run game sucks". The Bears run game certainly doesn't suck but it ain't the tool to pull them from behind on the final drive of a game.
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Much to gain over final five games for Bears QB Justin Fields
...

Fields is on schedule, no doubt, but he has not arrived.

‘‘He knows there’s a lot ahead of him in terms of improvement,’’ coach Matt Eberflus said. ‘‘He wants to take that jump — that leap — here in these next few games.’’
...

Yes, there are indications that he’s headed toward stardom.

Yes, he’s hurting.

Yes, the Bears are done even dreaming about the playoffs.

But there’s nearly a third of a season left, and a young quarterback still seeking to prove himself needs those games.

Forget about whether general manager Ryan Poles needs to be convinced of Fields. This is more for his own benefit than anything else. Fields is still at the stage where every snap he takes, every coverage he reads and every blitz he identifies helps build his mental database.

It’s reassuring, however, that it appears he is advancing in all areas.

‘‘You can see it in his fundamentals, you can see it in his confidence, you can see it in the way that he delivers the ball — the timing of it, the rhythm of it,’’ Eberflus said. ‘‘You can see that every day in practice. We’ve been seeing that for a long time [in practice], and you’re starting to see it in games.’’

While he’s an incredible runner, Fields would be the first to say he has to get better as a passer. Even in his seven-game run where he flourished and led the Bears to 25.3 points per game, his passing was efficient but hardly game-changing at 167.3 yards per game.

He aspires to be a quarterback who can win with his arm and his legs, and that’s what the Bears need. That’s what Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen do. Fields has the potential to get there, too, but the only way to do that is through games.

There will be games when running isn’t much of an option. Good defenses can minimize those opportunities and force Fields to win through the air. There already are situations like that in games, such as third-and-longs and two-minute drills. Obvious passing scenarios are the biggest challenge a quarterback faces, and Fields will have to conquer that.

There’s much for him to gain down the stretch. That’s a good reason for him to play.

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022 ... tin-fields
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dplank wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:23 am Ask the question this way: if the season ended today, we are picking high, and a QB is there for us. Do you draft the QB or trade down? I trade down, we have our QB and now we need to build around him.

This is so “Bears fan” to me. The NATIONAL media is fawning all over a Bears QB, literally mentioning him in MVP talk and calling him the best playmaker in the NFL, and it’s still not good enough! We’ve literally never seen this happen here, not ever. A few RBs and a few of our defensive players caught league attention this way, never a QB. Y2, new offense, terrible surrounding talent. My god people…..
Best Player Available....
If it happens to be a QB, go for it. Nice to have a spare Franchise QB on the Bench. With the way Justin is getting hit and injured, he may not be around long enough anyway. Especially so if he insists he can play against the Pack Sunday, when common sense says sit and use the bye to get that shoulder a chance to heal naturally.

So logically you are not being so "Bears Fan" after all. If a top QB is there and Justin turns the corner, that 2d round QB ill be worth a fortune on the trade market to QB needy teams. There are only 8-10 really good QBs in the NFL at any one time.
I know the Bears are needing so many holes filled and a trade down is in the cards (or multiple trade downs) but it depends a lot on how Justin manages this string of games to end the season.
A new Era begins in the NFC North!

Sadly, it does not involve the Bears.... :frustrated:
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RichH55
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AZ_Bearfan wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:24 pm
Had Kmet open in the flat
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HisRoyalSweetness
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Aw...



Don't ever tell me that kids have to have someone who 'looks like them' to be their heroes.
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And so ends yet another game in the oldest and most played division rivalry in NFL history with the Bears inevitable defeat to Aaron Rodgers and the ruddy cheeseheads... but if you're feeling down just sit back and enjoy these signs of things to come.





Last edited by HisRoyalSweetness on Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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There’s zero doubt we have finally found our QB IMO.
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When he makes plays like that he can get away with this! :lol:

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