Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

[BearsFanInMN]

I think it’s a tough situation. Year 1 was essentially a waste but that narrative doesn’t last long. Team was in cap hell so it was try to fix OL or receiving and while they made the right decision there’s no world beaters catching passes to make it easier. Borrowing from TMP they need to just get him some rhythm and confidence. He has a good pass and we go back to running. Let’s start game in hurry up and let him get it going. Or establish run early and go RPO and play action right after.

To me he looks like he knows he has only 15 attempts guaranteed. Has he looked good? No. But do I think he’s been set up for success? No. I also don’t think this year tells us much until farther in.

[dplank]

And here’s another article making it clear that while Fields needs to play better, the whole passing attack is broken and it’s not just him. WRs being injured haven’t helped, and the OL has been very inconsistent in pass protection. This one is by Greg Gabriel, he knows the Bears and he knows football folks…

https://apple.news/AkmAtaWsBQgKvuajpxXeyFw

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

And here’s another article making it clear that while Fields needs to play better, the whole passing attack is broken and it’s not just him. WRs being injured haven’t helped, and the OL has been very inconsistent in pass protection. This one is by Greg Gabriel, he knows the Bears and he knows football folks…

https://apple.news/AkmAtaWsBQgKvuajpxXeyFw

From that article;

I believe Fields needs to get off to a quicker start in games, have some success early, which will breed success for the rest of the game. The line also needs to be more consistent with their pass protection. They already are a great run blocking unit, but the consistency needed for a solid pass game isn't there.

Which is pretty much what all of us have been saying, in order to build that in-game confidence for Fields. Let's hope it happens this weekend.

[RichH55]

I think it’s a tough situation. Year 1 was essentially a waste but that narrative doesn’t last long. Team was in cap hell so it was try to fix OL or receiving and while they made the right decision there’s no world beaters catching passes to make it easier. Borrowing from TMP they need to just get him some rhythm and confidence. He has a good pass and we go back to running. Let’s start game in hurry up and let him get it going. Or establish run early and go RPO and play action right after.

To me he looks like he knows he has only 15 attempts guaranteed. Has he looked good? No. But do I think he’s been set up for success? No. I also don’t think this year tells us much until farther in.

Team was absolutely NOT in Cap Hell or anything approaching it.

[RichH55]

And here’s another article making it clear that while Fields needs to play better, the whole passing attack is broken and it’s not just him. WRs being injured haven’t helped, and the OL has been very inconsistent in pass protection. This one is by Greg Gabriel, he knows the Bears and he knows football folks…

https://apple.news/AkmAtaWsBQgKvuajpxXeyFw

Still not on the OL no matter how much you'd like that to be true

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Someone else take a look at this highlight video of Fields at OSU, and tell me if he has a hitch at the top of his throwing motion. I don't see one. Could he have developed that under Nagy? And now Getsy & Co. have to go back and fix it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAGhGva4QZM

[RichH55]

Run more hurry-up plays, less thinking and just playing involved. Use more RPO, Fields did this a lot at Ohio State. Run more plays in which Fields bootlegs to the outside, cuts down on the field he has to keep track of by 1/2 although he's got a cannon and can hit a guy across the field if he sees him open. Put a fluorescent vest or blinking lights on St. Brown so Fields sees him when he's 5 yards open behind his defender.

This is such a great point.

Why can’t they just run the offense he had at Ohio State?

Is there a legit reason for that or are the Bears just stupid?

They pay the other team at this level as well.

[RichH55]

I think they want JF1 to develop in an offense they envision in the long run

Didn't the team just go through trying to pound a square peg Mitch into a round hole Nagy offense? Why not use JF's strengths from the get-go?

You are seeing what happens though.

The Roll outs, etc. The Defense is absolutely ready for them

There is no real substitute for reading the Defense and getting the ball out faster.

No QB ever fan faster than your average Chad Pennington throw

[The Marshall Plan]

Oh wow.

Apparently I was quoted by the Protected Class that I have on Ignore.

I won’t ask the mods to do anything. Why start now?

Instead I think it’s time for a potty break and to enjoy this refresher I got from Starbucks this morning.

Toodles.

[Rusty Trombagent]

Rich's point stands though. You cant ask a coordinator to run an offense that isnt their own. We saw it with Nagy thinking he could just run Andy Reid's offense. Famously Mel Tucker was told to run Lovie's defense and that was a disaster. Football is so much more complicated then "they should just run the Ohio State offense" which was "chuck it deep to the 1st Round WR's that are running behind the coverage.

[RichH55]

Dwayne Haskins looked fantastic in the tOSU offense as well.

It doesn't translate to the NFL - because no NFL team has that much more talent at every position than the opponent.

You don't have a RB that averages 7.5 YPC. Your QB is still a great athlete, but in the NFL he's not the best non-tOSU athlete on the field.

Pass Protection - for ANY team - doesn't give you as much time (Fields held the ball too long BY COLLEGE standards - BUT He was usually rewarded for it - Bad Habits)

The Dcoords are better in the NFL. The players are better in the NFL. The players have more experience than those in College. The players and Dcoord - spend way more time/effort on Film Study/ Game plans etc - in addition to that extra experience and talent

There are few if any anticipatory throws in that tOSU Offense. Frankly the throws are often "late" by NFL Standards (he's waiting til guys are 3-5 yards wide open - He could have done that at 1-2 yards wide open - But again- it is ultimately going for a TD in College - so there is bad habits reinforced

Also his WR that year: Olave, Garrett Wilson and Jameson Williams (Picks 10-12 in this Years 1st Round)

The DBs he faced (except v. Alabama) - The Pep Boys

So if we are seriously asking "Why don't we just run the tOSU offense" - Take your pick from the above menu

[dplank]

Rich's point stands though. You cant ask a coordinator to run an offense that isnt their own. We saw it with Nagy thinking he could just run Andy Reid's offense. Famously Mel Tucker was told to run Lovie's defense and that was a disaster. Football is so much more complicated then "they should just run the Ohio State offense" which was "chuck it deep to the 1st Round WR's that are running behind the coverage.

Yea 100% true. Fields is going to have to improve areas of his game for this to work within Getsy's scheme. Getsy can only modify it so much to accommodate where he is currently, it's on Fields and the offense as a whole to get in sync. It's 3 weeks into a completely new scheme, growing pains were always expected.

I just don't see what the point is in blaming everything on Fields (not that you are, but many are), as if everyone else isn't also learning this thing together. He shoulders most of the blame, as all QB's do, but it's also true that he isn't being helped out much by his surrounding cast including the OL. They are run blocking great, and sometimes pass pro is good but it's really been inconsistent and has led to a lot of quick sacks. A lot of presnap penalties last week made a rough day even rougher. Some big drops didn't help either. All of things things add up and snowball.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

Rich's point stands though. You cant ask a coordinator to run an offense that isnt their own. We saw it with Nagy thinking he could just run Andy Reid's offense. Famously Mel Tucker was told to run Lovie's defense and that was a disaster. Football is so much more complicated then "they should just run the Ohio State offense" which was "chuck it deep to the 1st Round WR's that are running behind the coverage.

Yea 100% true. Fields is going to have to improve areas of his game for this to work within Getsy's scheme. Getsy can only modify it so much to accommodate where he is currently, it's on Fields and the offense as a whole to get in sync. It's 3 weeks into a completely new scheme, growing pains were always expected.

I just don't see what the point is in blaming everything on Fields (not that you are, but many are), as if everyone else isn't also learning this thing together. He shoulders most of the blame, as all QB's do, but it's also true that he isn't being helped out much by his surrounding cast including the OL. They are run blocking great, and sometimes pass pro is good but it's really been inconsistent and has led to a lot of quick sacks. A lot of presnap penalties last week made a rough day even rougher. Some big drops didn't help either. All of things things add up and snowball.

Good post, dplank.

[RichH55]

Yea 100% true. Fields is going to have to improve areas of his game for this to work within Getsy's scheme. Getsy can only modify it so much to accommodate where he is currently, it's on Fields and the offense as a whole to get in sync. It's 3 weeks into a completely new scheme, growing pains were always expected.

I just don't see what the point is in blaming everything on Fields (not that you are, but many are), as if everyone else isn't also learning this thing together. He shoulders most of the blame, as all QB's do, but it's also true that he isn't being helped out much by his surrounding cast including the OL. They are run blocking great, and sometimes pass pro is good but it's really been inconsistent and has led to a lot of quick sacks. A lot of presnap penalties last week made a rough day even rougher. Some big drops didn't help either. All of things things add up and snowball.

Good post, dplank.

Its more apologist than needed IMHO.

The OL has been pretty good - he's actually had a decent amount of time. The notion of quick sacks just really hasn't been true this year (if people want to give him a full pass for the Cleveland game last year - that's one thing - There hasn't been ANYTHING approaching that)

In fact - it was basically impossible for the 49ers to do that - because the weather acted like an Offensive Lineman helper (for both teams) - because its just going to slow down the pass rush organically

Big Drops? Eh. Not really. His ball placement - from the get go - against the Texans was sub-optimal - If you recall the Pringle completion - that's a sub-optimal ball placement. The Mooney "drop" ? Ok. He should have had that - he's an NFL WR and a good one. The pass placement was bad though - no reason that had to be a difficult catch - Mooney was open.

That was a bigger bummer overall. Fields issues in the past - and in College - were very rarely accuracy or ball placement.

These were new issues. Hopefully a one game blip (though part of me is scared that the mechanics work could be - partially? - part of the issue - IF that continues)

But this notion - kind of wink, wink, nudge nudge that sure Fields deserves blame but the OL and WR are big contributing factors. When that just really hasn't been the case.

It's NEVER all the QBs fault - but this is - so Far - about as much on the QB as it can be.

Reasons for optimism in that its a new offense, new coaches, etc. Fair enough - But that's more forward looking. In that it could change - it could click etc

The OL - has been pretty good - Way better than expected. And the WR haven't been the issue (Mooney has been open - guys have been open - Fields isn't seeing them or he's missing them)

Fields has been terrible in his NFL career so far - under 2 coaching staffs. The 2nd one is 3 games old though - and there is PLENTY of time and ROOM for improvement - some of which can come from various things - Some as simple as having more time in the Offense

But the 1st 3 games? It's about as much on Fields as it can be - anything other than that is apologist. Not acknowledging the OL has been pretty good is the height of that apoligism IMHO

[wab]

Oh wow.

Apparently I was quoted by the Protected Class that I have on Ignore.

I won’t ask the mods to do anything. Why start now?

Instead I think it’s time for a potty break and to enjoy this refresher I got from Starbucks this morning.

Toodles.

Thanks for letting us know.

[wab]

Good post, dplank.

Its more apologist than needed IMHO.

The OL has been pretty good - he's actually had a decent amount of time. The notion of quick sacks just really hasn't been true this year (if people want to give him a full pass for the Cleveland game last year - that's one thing - There hasn't been ANYTHING approaching that)

In fact - it was basically impossible for the 49ers to do that - because the weather acted like an Offensive Lineman helper (for both teams) - because its just going to slow down the pass rush organically

Big Drops? Eh. Not really. His ball placement - from the get go - against the Texans was sub-optimal - If you recall the Pringle completion - that's a sub-optimal ball placement. The Mooney "drop" ? Ok. He should have had that - he's an NFL WR and a good one. The pass placement was bad though - no reason that had to be a difficult catch - Mooney was open.

That was a bigger bummer overall. Fields issues in the past - and in College - were very rarely accuracy or ball placement.

These were new issues. Hopefully a one game blip (though part of me is scared that the mechanics work could be - partially? - part of the issue - IF that continues)

But this notion - kind of wink, wink, nudge nudge that sure Fields deserves blame but the OL and WR are big contributing factors. When that just really hasn't been the case.

It's NEVER all the QBs fault - but this is - so Far - about as much on the QB as it can be.

Reasons for optimism in that its a new offense, new coaches, etc. Fair enough - But that's more forward looking. In that it could change - it could click etc

The OL - has been pretty good - Way better than expected. And the WR haven't been the issue (Mooney has been open - guys have been open - Fields isn't seeing them or he's missing them)

Fields has been terrible in his NFL career so far - under 2 coaching staffs. The 2nd one is 3 games old though - and there is PLENTY of time and ROOM for improvement - some of which can come from various things - Some as simple as having more time in the Offense

But the 1st 3 games? It's about as much on Fields as it can be - anything other than that is apologist. Not acknowledging the OL has been pretty good is the height of that apoligism IMHO

These are all uncomfortable and harsh points, but not necessarily untrue.

Having said that..he was still one of the most accurate QB's in college football. Whether some of that accuracy was inflated by the talent/system/whatever, it's not all by accident. Not every throw he made was to a player that didn't have a defender within 10 yards of him.

You don't just go from one of the most accurate and athletic QB's in college football to...whatever this is. There's a "something" there that should be fixable. So, I'm still of the opinion he's going to get better.

[wab]

I think if we are going to draw conclusions between JF1 and the talent he had at WR in 2019 and 2020 (which as Rich pointed out was pretty good), we should also look at the rest of his supporting cast.

2019:
WR: Austin Mack, Chris Olave, Binjimen Victor
RB: KJ Hill
TE: Luke Farrell
LT: Thayer Munford
LG: Jonah Jackson
C: Josh Myers
RG: Wyatt Davis
RT: Branden Bowen

2020:
WR: Chris Olave, Jameson Williams, Garrett Wilson
RB: Master Teague
TE: Luke Farrell
LT: Thayer Munford
LG: Harry Miller
C: Josh Myers
RG: Wyatt Davis
RT: Nicholas Petit-Frere

Yes, it's a talented WR group - even by NFL talent level standards. But it's not like he was surrounded by elite talent every where else. Obviously it was good talent by NCAA standards, but JF1 was not exclusively a product of the players around him.

He's a really really good player that is struggling to adjust to this offense (and probably the speed of the NFL overall).

Also - if you look at the defense he faced in practice both of those years, it's littered with good NFL starters at every level.

[UOK]

[The Marshall Plan]

That’s got a Baghdad Bob feel to it though.

Fields is learning a new offense, again, and is struggling for a variety of reasons. Some his fault some not his fault.

What really concerns me though are things like the wobbly INT against the Texans. Last year’s picks weren’t because of stupidity or incompetence on his part largely. They were tipped balls.

I think Plank started saying this too, apologies if I’m wrong, but Fields is exhibiting symptoms of a scrambled brain. Losing confidence. Over thinking. Like a pitcher who forgot to throw strikes. Or that scene in Tin Cup when McAvoy has the shanks.

His head is getting messed up. That’s why I’m saying go back to basics. Like Rocky in Rocky 3.

We have nothing to lose anymore. Let him pick some plays. And yes I’ll repeat that he should take some plays from Ohio State. Get him some familiarity.

But it’s Week 3 and maybe too late for that? IDK. Either way, he needs to start every game and play every snap no matter what.

[thunderspirit]

Dwayne Haskins isn't Justin Fields.
Justin Fields isn't Dwayne Haskins.

I'll not comment further.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

On the issue of drops, according to Pro Football Reference there have only been 3 drops out of Fields' 45 attempts, one each from Mooney, Ebner and Kmet.

If I recall correctly, the Mooney and Ebner drops were those swing passes behind the line of scrimmage against the Texans. Kmet's was the previous week and would have gained about 5 yards.

Of course all drops negatively impact a QB's statistics, but it's not as if these have been missed opportunities for big downfield gains or TDs.

All QBs are going to have passes dropped. All QBs are going to get pressured. All QBs are going to be sacked. That's why it's so important that they make the plays that are there to be made. Sadly Fields just hasn't been doing that very often.

What makes it doubly disappointing is that the run game has been so strong. They're regularly picking up first downs on the ground and keeping drives going. If Fields had put up even mediocre numbers this offense would have been humming. I desperately want to see him just string a few solid performances together over the next few weeks and if he has a 'big' game then that would just be a bonus.

Perhaps more than anything he needs a confidence boost. He always presents a calm façade, but his lack of success must be taking a toll on him mentally and emotionally.

[The Marshall Plan]

Rich's point stands though. You cant ask a coordinator to run an offense that isnt their own. We saw it with Nagy thinking he could just run Andy Reid's offense. Famously Mel Tucker was told to run Lovie's defense and that was a disaster. Football is so much more complicated then "they should just run the Ohio State offense" which was "chuck it deep to the 1st Round WR's that are running behind the coverage.

Can you think of an easier play than to run to the Cadillac and the ball will be there like street ball?

Forgive the Bullshit Bingo term, but JF1 needs some “quick wins”. Get his confidence back up.

Whatever that means from a playcalling standpoint I don’t care. But decrease the things he needs to worry about.

That’s why I’m saying PA, I-Formation, two back sets, etc. Slants. All that. With the way we can run the ball, all of that can be set up. Given a defense’s preference now to stack the box, it’s likely that if we find a passing combo that works that JF1 is going to blow them up and have that 350 yard game. Do that a couple times and get him believing in himself.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Dwayne Haskins isn't Justin Fields.
Justin Fields isn't Dwayne Haskins.

I'll not comment further.

Thanks

[dplank]

Having said that..he was still one of the most accurate QB's in college football. Whether some of that accuracy was inflated by the talent/system/whatever, it's not all by accident. Not every throw he made was to a player that didn't have a defender within 10 yards of him.

You don't just go from one of the most accurate and athletic QB's in college football to...whatever this is. There's a "something" there that should be fixable. So, I'm still of the opinion he's going to get better.

Yea this is where I'm at. It's not apologizing to note that he's already proven himself to be a better player than what we've seen thus far, that the surrounding talent is abysmal, and that we are in week 3 of installing a brand new offense. Those things are facts and are contributing factors. This should be fixable and I believe it's going to look a lot better as the season wears on. But QB's always get too much credit and too much blame for the entirety of the offense. We are seeing a unit struggle right now, which is what we all expected and it's reasonable to expect that. Fields has looked bad in the process, but you have to look at each play individually to assign blame - it's simply not all his fault and noting that isn't being apologetic it's being fair. And consistently when experts look at our film, they correctly note the plays Fields clearly screws up and they also note plenty of plays where it wasn't necessarily his fault. Both Dilfer and Gabriel watched every snap, they aren't just summing up stats and making broad assertions. Both those guys know more about football than any of us, and actually took the time to watch every snap, so dismissing their take out of hand is foolish IMO.

[Arkansasbear]

He shoulders most of the blame, as all QB's do,

I'm trying to remember the name of the WR in Dallas that came to the defense of his QB when the media was all over the QB for playing poorly. He said something along the lines of "Playing QB in the NFL is like doing cocaine. The highs are too high and lows are too low." I think the Big Tuna cut him the next day.

[karhu]

EDIT: Just trying to put everything in its proper perspective here.

Fields takes the brunt of the criticism because he plays the most important position in team sports, and because our expectations of just about everyone else were either low or necessarily unformed. New coaching staff? We'll see. Revamped WR and OL corps? I mean, would you call it a revamp? We'll see. Fields with a year under his belt and a new approach to his footwork? We could finally start to see what all the excitement's about.

It's fair and reasonable to keep focusing on the internal factors that are holding Fields back, and what he needs to do to overcome them. But that's not the whole story. Just because other units have exceeded our vanishingly low expectations doesn't mean that it's unfair to expect even more of them.

The line has been pretty darned good, but hardly perfect. They've given Fields more time to throw than anyone this side of the Meadowlands, and the line is still somewhat in flux. The receivers have been getting open, from what I can tell, but not as open as they need to for this QB at this time. Some of the route-running has been awfully sloppy, especially on shallower routes. There's room for improvement.

There's no real point in discussing any of this without an expectation that Fields will improve. The question, then, is how. It's not going to be a smooth linear progression--nothing, from personal development to scientific revolutions, works that way. Break out yr Kuhn, it's going to be a sequence of punctuated equilibrium. The next breakthrough could be, should be, almost by definition will be, Fields finding guys open the way he likes them to be open. That could happen over the course of a couple of series. The next breakthrough would come after he settles in and feels more like himself, and would involve him throwing to guys who aren't currently open but who he knows will be. After that, he's off to the races.

Most of the work toward that first breakthrough is on Fields himself. But his line and his receivers can help get him there. In playing surprisingly well, they haven't just exceeded expectations, they've heightened them.

[Grizzled]

Feels like a bad joke. Fields is the 31st ranked QB out of 32 according to FanSided. Trubisky is ranked 32nd.

[The Marshall Plan]

Feels like a bad joke. Fields is the 31st ranked QB out of 32 according to FanSided. Trubisky is ranked 32nd.

See?

We've improved.

I love looking on the bright side.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Very strange because Fields is historically inept so what does that make Mitch?

Pre-historically Inept?

[RichH55]

Mod edit: Too far. Don’t push your luck.