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Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:33 pm
by artbest01
I don’t (honestly) know how nfl GMs and head coaches think about this. A potential elite franchise QB who throws for over 4,000 yards and 30+ TDS per season may be considered a “force multiplier” ie, someone who consistently raises the play of those around him - may be more appealing than Justin Fields, heading into his 4th season with a 5th year option looming, plus MHJ. The question is whether Williams and/or Maye is viewed in that light.

Hopefully, Justin builds on yesterdays game and balls out against the Vikings


quote=dplank post_id=357358 time=1700511459 user_id=1910]
artbest01 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:59 pm Scott said he slowed down because he lost track of the ball.

As far as throws, I've seen Williams make plays and throws I haven't seen Fields make at any level - particularly on the move under duress. Yesterday, Fields did overcome the "get pressured/drop eyes" approach he went back to against the Vikings...but, despite all of his foibles this year, that's something Williams doesn't do - he seems to keep his eyes downfield.

The question is whether NFL GMs and scouts still hold Williams in the same regard that they did heading into 2023...and, if he has the #1 pick, how does Ryan Poles compare Fields to Williams (and Maye). Jay Cutler made some AMAZING throws and plays in his career...but, all in all, his many years with the Bears were ultimately a disappointment. Fields is a different person and player than Jay, but he's been less productive - to date.

Fields is the best physical specimen I've ever seen at QB in the Bears' uniform. He throws a gorgeous deep ball and has elite WR level speed. Can he become a consistent, winning NFL starting QB and, more importantly, does Poles think he has more upside than Williams and/or Maye.
It would have to be a lot more upside, a whole lot more, to justify pissing away a Top 1 or 2 pick on one of those guys when you have a good QB already in place. I'd much, much rather use those high picks we have to stack talent on this team. Fields is good enough, right now, to win with.

Ask yourself this question....watching the game yesterday while we were on offense, who was the best player on the field for either team? If you answer isn't Fields, then your blind. It was obvious. People are really overthinking this IMO. I'd rather have Fields + MhJr than just Williams or Maye - and that's the real choice we are looking at here. 2 for 1 swap to go with the QB change, no effing way.
[/quote]

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:35 pm
by The Marshall Plan
Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:31 pm
RichH55 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:25 pm

You Don't think Williams could throw for 200 Yards and average 5.8 YPC? Get strip sacked?

Fields just played a good football game. Good, not Great.

It's insane for someone to say "Williams can't do what Fields just did!" (Half the shit!)

It's a bad take.

I tend to point out bad takes
It’s not about what I think - I’ve never seen him play in the NFL so whatever opinion I form it would be essentially baseless.
Isn't Rich the same guy that wanted us to sign Kirk Cousins this upcoming offseason and then later on suggested that we trade for Kyler Murray?

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:49 pm
by wab
It feels like the opinion in NFL circles is that the Bears are bad for Fields and not the other way around. To that end, it seems like an OC would want to coach him, because if it's a success, it's going to propel that OC to HC candidacy in short order.

Did anyone really have Ben Johnson on their radar before this season?

Now, having said that...I've not been shy about my disdain for Matt Eberflus, so I don't know if I want anyone coming in here and saving his job.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:07 pm
by artbest01
True re: propelling said OC - but, if it doesn't work, then that OC likely gets whacked along with Eberflus (and Poles) after next season. Now, imagine if, say, Brian Flores gets a HC job somewhere. An emerging OC talent is more likely to follow him and his multi-year contract than go to Hot Seat Eberflus. Mike Tomlin may decide to make a change at OC - being an OC for a firmly entrenched, highly respected HC may be a more desirable spot than Chicago with Matt Eberflus.

The only way, imo, this changes is if, say, the Bears get to 6 wins. They do that, after the start they had and things look better to candidates. If Fields plays well in leading the team to 3 more wins, but Getsy still moves on (I have a sneaking feeling that he's gone regardless), and the organization is committed to Justin, then I think a quality external candidate(s) will be interested.

All of that said, I wonder of Janocko is the next OC - much like Ben Johnson was in Detroit - if Eberflus stays.

wab wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:49 pm It feels like the opinion in NFL circles is that the Bears are bad for Fields and not the other way around. To that end, it seems like an OC would want to coach him, because if it's a success, it's going to propel that OC to HC candidacy in short order.

Did anyone really have Ben Johnson on their radar before this season?

Now, having said that...I've not been shy about my disdain for Matt Eberflus, so I don't know if I want anyone coming in here and saving his job.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:21 pm
by WagonForce
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:23 pm I know this is a Justin Fields discussion, but can we just take a moment to appreciate Teven Jenkins in those clips. The first play he pushes his man right across the field and on DJ Moore's TD he leaves his assignment to save Fields after Borom gets beaten inside. Heck they obviously think Jenkins is so good they left him to block two guys enitrely on his own on the play at the 0:45 mark!
Jenkins is a beast out there. If he can stay healthy the sky is the limit for him.

I think the last Bears offensive lineman to earn All Pro honors was Olin Kreutz in 2006. I wonder who the next Bear lineman will be to get there will be. Maybe he's already on the team :D

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:31 pm
by thunderspirit
Jenkins has been very good this season when on the field.

If he can stay healthy the rest of this season, that would be two consecutive seasons of 13 games played, which is positive. That might be enough to earn him a new contract.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:36 pm
by o-pus #40 in B major
dplank wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:17 pm
artbest01 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:59 pm Scott said he slowed down because he lost track of the ball.

As far as throws, I've seen Williams make plays and throws I haven't seen Fields make at any level - particularly on the move under duress. Yesterday, Fields did overcome the "get pressured/drop eyes" approach he went back to against the Vikings...but, despite all of his foibles this year, that's something Williams doesn't do - he seems to keep his eyes downfield.

The question is whether NFL GMs and scouts still hold Williams in the same regard that they did heading into 2023...and, if he has the #1 pick, how does Ryan Poles compare Fields to Williams (and Maye). Jay Cutler made some AMAZING throws and plays in his career...but, all in all, his many years with the Bears were ultimately a disappointment. Fields is a different person and player than Jay, but he's been less productive - to date.

Fields is the best physical specimen I've ever seen at QB in the Bears' uniform. He throws a gorgeous deep ball and has elite WR level speed. Can he become a consistent, winning NFL starting QB and, more importantly, does Poles think he has more upside than Williams and/or Maye.
It would have to be a lot more upside, a whole lot more, to justify pissing away a Top 1 or 2 pick on one of those guys when you have a good QB already in place. I'd much, much rather use those high picks we have to stack talent on this team. Fields is good enough, right now, to win with.

Ask yourself this question....watching the game yesterday while we were on offense, who was the best player on the field for either team? If you answer isn't Fields, then your blind. It was obvious. People are really overthinking this IMO. I'd rather have Fields + MhJr than just Williams or Maye - and that's the real choice we are looking at here. 2 for 1 swap to go with the QB change, no effing way.
Agreed, plank - build the team. Fields will be with us another 1-2 seasons and we've got a legit backup.
I'm pretty sure the last time Bears had these kind of picks in the first round they did NOT waste either one on a quarterback.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:53 pm
by HisRoyalSweetness
WagonForce wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:21 pm
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:23 pm I know this is a Justin Fields discussion, but can we just take a moment to appreciate Teven Jenkins in those clips. The first play he pushes his man right across the field and on DJ Moore's TD he leaves his assignment to save Fields after Borom gets beaten inside. Heck they obviously think Jenkins is so good they left him to block two guys enitrely on his own on the play at the 0:45 mark!
Jenkins is a beast out there. If he can stay healthy the sky is the limit for him.

I think the last Bears offensive lineman to earn All Pro honors was Olin Kreutz in 2006. I wonder who the next Bear lineman will be to get there will be. Maybe he's already on the team :D
Kyle Long was a second team All-Pro in his second season. His was the only current Bears player jersey I've ever bought. After 3 consecutive Pro Bowls I thought he was certain to be around playing at a high level for a good while. I wore that jersey once... and it turned out to be Kyle's last ever game for the Bears! As tempting as it is to get a Jenkins one I won't be making that mistake again. I'd hate to jinx the guy!
thunderspirit wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:31 pm Jenkins has been very good this season when on the field.

If he can stay healthy the rest of this season, that would be two consecutive seasons of 13 games played, which is positive. That might be enough to earn him a new contract.
It should be right near the top of Poles to do list. Extend him early and ensure he's a fixture for the next several years. People say the best player on Sunday was Fields, but Jenkins made a good case for that accolade. He's a definite keeper and easily the Bears best O-lineman. Whoever the QB ends up being you need guys like Jenkins in front of them.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:54 pm
by HisRoyalSweetness
And back to Mr Fields...

This just was just uploaded and it's a long one (55 minutes!):


Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:25 pm
by RichH55
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:53 pm
WagonForce wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:21 pm

Jenkins is a beast out there. If he can stay healthy the sky is the limit for him.

I think the last Bears offensive lineman to earn All Pro honors was Olin Kreutz in 2006. I wonder who the next Bear lineman will be to get there will be. Maybe he's already on the team :D
Kyle Long was a second team All-Pro in his second season. His was the only current Bears player jersey I've ever bought. After 3 consecutive Pro Bowls I thought he was certain to be around playing at a high level for a good while. I wore that jersey once... and it turned out to be Kyle's last ever game for the Bears! As tempting as it is to get a Jenkins one I won't be making that mistake again. I'd hate to jinx the guy!
thunderspirit wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:31 pm Jenkins has been very good this season when on the field.

If he can stay healthy the rest of this season, that would be two consecutive seasons of 13 games played, which is positive. That might be enough to earn him a new contract.
It should be right near the top of Poles to do list. Extend him early and ensure he's a fixture for the next several years. People say the best player on Sunday was Fields, but Jenkins made a good case for that accolade. He's a definite keeper and easily the Bears best O-lineman. Whoever the QB ends up being you need guys like Jenkins in front of them.
MIght be a reverse jinx on Jenkins.

He might just have been injured once or twice before you buy the jersey

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:32 pm
by RichH55
thunderspirit wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:58 pm Guys: nothing any of us say is ever going to convince certain people on this board that Fields actually had a game yesterday that is worthy of praise.

Or anything worthy of praise, for that matter.

It's just not going to happen, they've already made up their minds.
Is there any sliding scale or reasonableness to be had?

Like - I know I'm considered a hater.

But is like saying he played a good game - Not praise?

Do I have to sign on to every over the top pendulum swing all the way?


Is it so wrong to actually have him BE great before we SAY he's Great?

That's like an unfair ask to you where no one is EVER gonna be convinced? That's the take away?

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:06 pm
by mmmc_35
I didnt get to watch the game. I have watched some highlights. I plan to watch the breakdown above.

So are we anointing Fields again? It sounds like he played well. Hes got to prove it.this is a fairly talented roster, prove it. I want him to be good, I really do. Yet prove it.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:21 pm
by HisRoyalSweetness
For anyone who just wants a quick recap:



It only has the TV angle, not the All-22, so you can't really see what's happening downfield a lot of the time. Although it's long, JT O'Sullivan's breakdown above is definitely worth watching. Aside from Fields play, he calls out the number of times one guy (not the same guy) screwed up a blocking assignment on a running play resulting in missed opportunities and how frustrating that must be for the coaches.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:34 pm
by dplank
Maybe the coaches should stop moving guys around the line then

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:18 pm
by HisRoyalSweetness
dplank wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:34 pm Maybe the coaches should stop moving guys around the line then
It wasn't necessarily linemen who messed up. On one play Scott goes to block a defender who tracks Kmet as he pulls behind the line of scrimmage in the opposite direction. Scott looks lost, wondering where 'his guy' is going. He should have been facing the other way and blocking the outside CB who ends up making the tackle on Johnson. If he had then Johnson could well have taken it to the house.

There's another where the Bears line up Wright on the left as a tackle over in an unbalanced line. (That brought back memories of my youth - we used to do that all the time!) They then had Jones, Jenkins and the center all pulling to the right and nobody blocked the 3T. It's a bizarre looking play. O'Sullivan reckons that Jenkins wasn't supposed to pull but stay in and block the 3T, but in all honesty it might have been the responsibility of any of the three.

It's these details that kill plays. Is it just due to how many new players are on the roster, particularly young players? Is it possible everything will fall into place next year with experience and continuity or is that just wishful thinking?

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:21 pm
by thunderspirit
mmmc_35 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:06 pmSo are we anointing Fields again?
Not really. Most of us are saying he played very well, an opinion echoed by many analysts.

But it seems we're completely off-base about that assessment, because reasons.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 1:07 am
by Yogi da Bear
Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:31 pm
RichH55 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:25 pm

You Don't think Williams could throw for 200 Yards and average 5.8 YPC? Get strip sacked?

Fields just played a good football game. Good, not Great.

It's insane for someone to say "Williams can't do what Fields just did!" (Half the shit!)

It's a bad take.

I tend to point out bad takes
It’s not about what I think - I’ve never seen him play in the NFL so whatever opinion I form it would be essentially baseless.

[UOK EDIT: First needless portion deleted. Do better.]

Say what you want about him, but Caleb Williams can NOT run like Justin Fields. Never has been able to. Never will be able to.

What we do know about Caleb is that he can throw a third as many picks in one game (3 against Notre Dame) as Justin Fields had in his entire college career (9). We also know with 83 sacks that Williams was sacked on par with Justin's collegiate numbers. Finally, for all those who criticize Justin because of his NFL record (which is ridiculous in my opinion), anybody want to compare Williams' college record with Justin's? Anybody?

As far as Rich is concerned, I'm done with this.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:16 am
by malk
wab wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:49 pm It feels like the opinion in NFL circles is that the Bears are bad for Fields and not the other way around. To that end, it seems like an OC would want to coach him, because if it's a success, it's going to propel that OC to HC candidacy in short order.

Did anyone really have Ben Johnson on their radar before this season?

Now, having said that...I've not been shy about my disdain for Matt Eberflus, so I don't know if I want anyone coming in here and saving his job.
I think if you get an OC that unlocks Fields' potential then it doesn't matter as much if they leave as Fields' can probably continue with pretty much anyone at that point. Well maybe not anyone but still, you get what I mean.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:50 am
by Rusty Trombagent
thunderspirit wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:21 pm
mmmc_35 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:06 pmSo are we anointing Fields again?
Not really. Most of us are saying he played very well, an opinion echoed by many analysts.

But it seems we're completely off-base about that assessment, because reasons.
did someone hack your account?

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 8:14 am
by Grizzled
pus wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:36 pm
dplank wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:17 pm

It would have to be a lot more upside, a whole lot more, to justify pissing away a Top 1 or 2 pick on one of those guys when you have a good QB already in place. I'd much, much rather use those high picks we have to stack talent on this team. Fields is good enough, right now, to win with.

Ask yourself this question....watching the game yesterday while we were on offense, who was the best player on the field for either team? If you answer isn't Fields, then your blind. It was obvious. People are really overthinking this IMO. I'd rather have Fields + MhJr than just Williams or Maye - and that's the real choice we are looking at here. 2 for 1 swap to go with the QB change, no effing way.
Agreed, plank - build the team. Fields will be with us another 1-2 seasons and we've got a legit backup.
I'm pretty sure the last time Bears had these kind of picks in the first round they did NOT waste either one on a quarterback.
The Bears did take Grossman as their second pick in the 1st round in 2003. They've actually done fairly well when having 2 picks in the 1st round:

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... one-draft/

Fields now has 6 games to show his stuff, with the next 3 games against tough teams being the most telling. It's not helping that Getsy continues to crap in the bed especially at key moments, negating Fields' strengths.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:03 am
by dplank
Grizzled wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 8:14 am
pus wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:36 pm

Agreed, plank - build the team. Fields will be with us another 1-2 seasons and we've got a legit backup.
I'm pretty sure the last time Bears had these kind of picks in the first round they did NOT waste either one on a quarterback.
The Bears did take Grossman as their second pick in the 1st round in 2003. They've actually done fairly well when having 2 picks in the 1st round:

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... one-draft/

Fields now has 6 games to show his stuff, with the next 3 games against tough teams being the most telling. It's not helping that Getsy continues to crap in the bed especially at key moments, negating Fields' strengths.
This whole "Fields has XX games to show his stuff" narrative is dying fast. Like, people have been saying that for a while and he just keeps stacking up 100+ QB rating games one after another and we payed a touch opponent last week (oh, and BTW, everyone mocking Denver can just sit down as they've ripped off 4 in a row now). At what point do the doubts stop and everyone just accept that while he has some flaws, he's a good fucking player. His peers recognize this, but the media loves to create their narratives and negative Bears fans are happy to slop it up. He's a good player people - he's not perfect, he's not going to be the next Mahomes, but he's a good player. If you can't see that by now, I just don't know what to tell you. Watch baseball or something.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:09 am
by G08
dplank wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:03 am(oh, and BTW, everyone mocking Denver can just sit down as they've ripped off 4 in a row now).
BUT THEY HAVE THE 32ND RANKED DEFENSE

(actually they're giving up 17.4 ppg the past 5 games)

*FOAMS FROM THE MOUTH*

:rofl:

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:18 am
by dplank
Folks just have to reset their brains IMO. Like, stop hyper focusing on every bad play because that one play reinforced something that you used to believe. Every QB has good and bad plays. Just watch him out there and you see a guy that's balling, imperfect yes but overall he's playing really well and definitely good enough to win with if our defense can hold up. I wish I could help people make this mental mind shift because I think their mindset is so hardened that they just aren't able to see it. Every good play has some negative embedded in it, every bad play is blown out of proportion - you can just see how different the critiques are of other players around the league and even our own backup QB. It must be a horrible existence as a fan of a team to be so set in your mind that your QB sucks that even when he does well you're unhappy and won't admit it. Fields went out there, after all that shit talking, and did EXACTLY what we all wanted him to do. He was in control, he saw the field, he made plays, and he put us in a position to beat maybe the 2nd best team in the NFC. SIT. DOWN.

/end rant

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:06 am
by Bears Whiskey Nut
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:21 pm For anyone who just wants a quick recap:



It only has the TV angle, not the All-22, so you can't really see what's happening downfield a lot of the time. Although it's long, JT O'Sullivan's breakdown above is definitely worth watching. Aside from Fields play, he calls out the number of times one guy (not the same guy) screwed up a blocking assignment on a running play resulting in missed opportunities and how frustrating that must be for the coaches.
It may be frustrating for the coaches, but this regime has had a year and a half, and they still are plagued with presnap penalties and missed assignments. At some point you have to look at how these players are being coached as a possible reason for all the failures.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:10 am
by G08

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:38 am
by artbest01
The focus on the final 6 games for Justin speaks to his inconsistency. he's played 3 good games and 4 (including the Viking game in Chicago) bad games. We saw what he CAN be against Detroit - let's see how he responds to Brian Flores' defense the second time around - the first time wasn't good. Is Fields a "good fucking player?" I think so - is he a good NFL passer? Remains to be seen. The "NFL circle" that says, Shady McCoy notwithstanding, the Bears are bad for Fields are the talking heads - not opposing coaches, GM's or scouts. I don't think any narratives on Justin - in any direction - are close to "dying." We also have no idea what Ryan Poles thinks and, if they move on from Eberflus, what a new coach will think. We also don't know where the Bears will actually be drafting.

Ideally, Fields ascends, they're in position to take MHJ and they move down in the 1st round with their second #1 to recoup the 2nd rounder traded for Montez Sweat.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 11:35 am
by dplank
artbest01 wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:38 am The focus on the final 6 games for Justin speaks to his inconsistency. he's played 3 good games and 4 (including the Viking game in Chicago) bad games. We saw what he CAN be against Detroit - let's see how he responds to Brian Flores' defense the second time around - the first time wasn't good. Is Fields a "good fucking player?" I think so - is he a good NFL passer? Remains to be seen. The "NFL circle" that says, Shady McCoy notwithstanding, the Bears are bad for Fields are the talking heads - not opposing coaches, GM's or scouts. I don't think any narratives on Justin - in any direction - are close to "dying." We also have no idea what Ryan Poles thinks and, if they move on from Eberflus, what a new coach will think. We also don't know where the Bears will actually be drafting.

Ideally, Fields ascends, they're in position to take MHJ and they move down in the 1st round with their second #1 to recoup the 2nd rounder traded for Montez Sweat.
You're still choosing to take an unnecessarily negative view, and your not even being accurate in your assessment of what he's done. He has had 3 good, 2 bad, one middling game (the GB game wasn't bad nor was it good), and one incomplete (that was trending bad but just a half). Saying he had 4 bad game is false. Then of course context matters, in the two bad games, TB and KC, came early in the year when team was gelling new players and our OL was missing 3/5 of it's starters - Fields was bum rushed nearly every snap, it was brutal. Since the line has stabilized, Fields has been CONSISTENTLY GOOD. That's the trend, and it's been the trend for a while now. Last year, he finished the season with something like 8 of his last 9 games being really good - NO ONE DISPUTED THAT week by week as DD kept a weekly score. No one disputed it, but negative people conveniently forget that and instead have a negative mindset regarding his play last year for some odd reason. His peers saw it differently, they voted him in as #86 best player in the league. Bears fan haters, meh. Must just be the stats right? Well....

On the whole this year, Justin Fields ranks 13th in passer rating, just BARELY behind none other than Patrick Mahomes (12th) and just AHEAD of Trevor Lawrence (14th). Oh, well Lawrence has been way better than Fields overall in his career, right? Nope. Fields CAREER pass rating is just behind Lawrence, pretty darn close to one another. They have been remarkably similar since entering the league. This year Fields has a TD/INT of 12/6, to Lawrence's 11/6 - in 3.5 fewer games! This is passing, not running, for those who insist the game is played a "certain way". Why do I keep bringing up Trevor Lawrence? Because there isn't a narrative about needing to see HIS last 6 games. Probably because the national media crowned his ass before he was even drafted, and blatantly slandered Fields character as a "last in, first out" type player when that's been proven to be absolute utter nonsense.

Fact: If you believe Fields still needs to prove himself, and don't believe that Lawrence still needs to prove himself also, then you have an agenda or are simply misinformed about how these two players are actually performing relative to one another. The only thing someone can point to is W/L, which is not a QB stat as we all know, and we've shown ad nauseum what other QB's W/L record would look like if the defense gave up PPG like the Bears have during Justin's time here.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:29 pm
by artbest01
Now you're sounding a bit like Fields' agent.

he was terrible week 1 - he put up some stats late in the 4th quarter when the Bears were down 38-14. His pick six in that game was awful. He was actually a BIT better in week 2, but still bad. he was horrendous in KC. Was the team "gelling" - I suppose, but Fields, in year 2 in this offense, by any objective measure should have been better. He played well against Denver and Washington and, for the time he was in the game against Minnesota, he wasn't "trending bad" - he was bad. He struggled handling the blitz. He was good in Detroit. Let's see him keep it up.

The Trevor Lawrence comparison is interesting. Lawrence ISN'T proven. However, in his second season, he threw for over 4100 yards and 25 TDs against 8 INTs. Justin Fields has yet to throw for 2500 yards in a season. Lawrence isn't as good to date this season, that's true - but he's produced as a passer in the NFL. Justin really hasn't (yet).

For "shits and giggles", Bob McGinn - Milwaukee's answer to Brad Biggs - had this quote from a scout on Justin Fields:

https://www.golongtd.com/p/bob-mcginns- ... er,(W.Va.).

“I like Tyson Bagent better than Fields,” one scout said. “He came in and was totally in charge. That rookie has some shit to him.”

Is he right? I don't think so - but there doesn't seem to be a consensus re: Fields being "the guy." More to the point, Brad Biggs had this quote from a scout after the Green Bay game:

“I’m just not sold on (Fields),” an NFC scout told the Chicago Tribune’s Brad Biggs after the Week 1 loss. “He doesn’t see the field. Holds the ball. Indecisive. Hard to win consistently with a run-first guy. But he’s a very talented runner.”

Fields HAS shown he can play better than he did against the Packers, Bucs, Chiefs and Vikings. Now he needs to show he can do it week in and week out - and has another crack at Minnesota, Green Bay and Detroit. He has a GOLDEN opportunity Monday night. I hope he takes full advantage .


dplank wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 11:35 am
artbest01 wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:38 am The focus on the final 6 games for Justin speaks to his inconsistency. he's played 3 good games and 4 (including the Viking game in Chicago) bad games. We saw what he CAN be against Detroit - let's see how he responds to Brian Flores' defense the second time around - the first time wasn't good. Is Fields a "good fucking player?" I think so - is he a good NFL passer? Remains to be seen. The "NFL circle" that says, Shady McCoy notwithstanding, the Bears are bad for Fields are the talking heads - not opposing coaches, GM's or scouts. I don't think any narratives on Justin - in any direction - are close to "dying." We also have no idea what Ryan Poles thinks and, if they move on from Eberflus, what a new coach will think. We also don't know where the Bears will actually be drafting.

Ideally, Fields ascends, they're in position to take MHJ and they move down in the 1st round with their second #1 to recoup the 2nd rounder traded for Montez Sweat.
You're still choosing to take an unnecessarily negative view, and your not even being accurate in your assessment of what he's done. He has had 3 good, 2 bad, one middling game (the GB game wasn't bad nor was it good), and one incomplete (that was trending bad but just a half). Saying he had 4 bad game is false. Then of course context matters, in the two bad games, TB and KC, came early in the year when team was gelling new players and our OL was missing 3/5 of it's starters - Fields was bum rushed nearly every snap, it was brutal. Since the line has stabilized, Fields has been CONSISTENTLY GOOD. That's the trend, and it's been the trend for a while now. Last year, he finished the season with something like 8 of his last 9 games being really good - NO ONE DISPUTED THAT week by week as DD kept a weekly score. No one disputed it, but negative people conveniently forget that and instead have a negative mindset regarding his play last year for some odd reason. His peers saw it differently, they voted him in as #86 best player in the league. Bears fan haters, meh. Must just be the stats right? Well....

On the whole this year, Justin Fields ranks 13th in passer rating, just BARELY behind none other than Patrick Mahomes (12th) and just AHEAD of Trevor Lawrence (14th). Oh, well Lawrence has been way better than Fields overall in his career, right? Nope. Fields CAREER pass rating is just behind Lawrence, pretty darn close to one another. They have been remarkably similar since entering the league. This year Fields has a TD/INT of 12/6, to Lawrence's 11/6 - in 3.5 fewer games! This is passing, not running, for those who insist the game is played a "certain way". Why do I keep bringing up Trevor Lawrence? Because there isn't a narrative about needing to see HIS last 6 games. Probably because the national media crowned his ass before he was even drafted, and blatantly slandered Fields character as a "last in, first out" type player when that's been proven to be absolute utter nonsense.

Fact: If you believe Fields still needs to prove himself, and don't believe that Lawrence still needs to prove himself also, then you have an agenda or are simply misinformed about how these two players are actually performing relative to one another. The only thing someone can point to is W/L, which is not a QB stat as we all know, and we've shown ad nauseum what other QB's W/L record would look like if the defense gave up PPG like the Bears have during Justin's time here.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:41 pm
by Yogi da Bear
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:54 pm And back to Mr Fields...

This just was just uploaded and it's a long one (55 minutes!):

I generally like this guy's analysis, but he's a major asshole. If he's going to critique our "left guard," maybe he should fucking learn the guy's name and not just call him #76. He's Tevin Jenkins, and he's by far our best offensive lineman. Maybe he should also credit him for the good he does. Like maybe call out the sack saving block on DJ's TD when he analyzed that.

What really bothers me is the guy's arrogance. He acts like he's a know it all and that he's some kind of savant, laughing at mistakes, saying this "isn't in the NFL." He acts like he would have made those alternative plays, easily. So just for shits and giggles, I looked him up. He had a career completion percentage of 56.4% with no year being better than 58.2%. He had a total of 9 TDs and 11 picks to go with a sack percentage of 14.7%! So don't sit there dissecting this stuff and act like you would have such a better choice.

I'll probably still watch his analysis, but he's still a major dickhead.

Re: Justin Fields Megathread - A story of Lovers and Haters

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 1:01 pm
by dplank
I'll just say again Art, that you're simply wrong here and discarding key information when making your point. Purposely telling half the story = dishonesty. Yes, Fields threw for much less yardage. He also rushed for the 2nd most yards ALL TIME. Have you checked the number of pass attempts? Lawrence threw nearly DOUBLE the amount as Fields. In part because Fields gets a lot of designed runs. The teams run VERY different offenses, regardless of who the QB is.
Getsy's offense is run heavy, Pederson's is pass heavy. There is no honest discussion about Fields as a player without acknowledging his historic rushing season last year. Do you think he was voted in as #86 because of his 2500 passing yards, or because of his historic rushing season? How did their total yards line up, was it a huge gap? Nope. Rating difference, favors Trevor slightly. Fields has improved his rating every year, Trevor appears to be regressing a bit. Oops.

So again, you take a dishonest view of reality here by blatantly ignoring Fields most unique and successful trait. You're better than this.