The "Gardner Minshew" Memorial Thread of Whatever

Boris13c · Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:26 pm

Hema2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:18 pm I'm confused. With Fields falling into our laps, why do we care so much about Minshew?

Is this thread more about Pace and his handling of the QB position? Would any of you want Minshew over Fields?

this whole thing began before Fields was even a possibility for the Bears

and it is about Pace and his QB decisions

Dalton was at the time your average NFL QB looking for a job ... as in the case with Glennon, the Bears were bidding against themselves and signed Dalton to a much larger contract than was warranted ... so to me, Pace doubled down on his mistake with Glennon and using $$$ that could have been applied elsewhere to obtain him ... and he did this while having Foles on the roster with his mega $$$ contract, so wtf was his point?

the smart thing would have been to name Foles QB1 then wait until the draft was over before deciding to invest more in QB $$$

so this Minshew mania thread came to be because he was available and for a reasonable price and if the Bears wanted another QB to compete with Foles, getting one at a reasonable price would have been the way to go IMO ... and then when Fields fell into the Bears laps, the QB room would have been Foles, Minshew and Fields, which I think we all would have been ok with

IE · Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:04 pm

Hema2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:18 pm I'm confused. With Fields falling into our laps, why do we care so much about Minshew?

Is this thread more about Pace and his handling of the QB position? Would any of you want Minshew over Fields?

Since we merged "around the league" topics with the main thread this is just in here because that is where it belongs. It really isn't Bear related anymore - but it was until the draft. There still could be a Pace-critical aspect of it.

Most of it though is just a number of folks who took a liking to the kid based on what he's done and how he got there and his huge personality - and enjoying him being successful.

So Minshew over Fields is a false choice. In this case it is "Love Fields" and "still wish the best for Minshew II". Personally I'm a huge Hurts fan too, and wanted him to be drafted by the Bears last year. I want Hurts to stay & do well in Philly, and maybe Philly can get a higher pick and trade Minshew to some other team next year where he can start (ahem... Carolina was a nobrainer for him this year). So yeah.... a lot of QBs to like! lol

malk · Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:01 pm

Hema2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:18 pm I'm confused. With Fields falling into our laps, why do we care so much about Minshew?

Is this thread more about Pace and his handling of the QB position? Would any of you want Minshew over Fields?

I wouldn't say that I care that much but I do find it really interesting and that's enough to get me to post about it, the discussion is fun I guess.

But on the question, I'm honestly not sure. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with Fields and I'm not judging him on this season's stats with a deeply inept Nagy offence, but I can't tell you how happy I'd be to see a Bears QB come out with two seasons like Minshew's first couple. So there's a part of me that wonders just why it is that everyone should be so confident that it's a slam dunk that Fields will be better?

I mean, Minshew did a lot better as a rookie/sophomore than "generational talent" Trevor Lawrence is currently doing, and Jax have a top 10 offensive line in both run blocking and pass pro. For reference Football Outsiders had them at 25th in pass pro in 2020 and 16th in 2019.

But Minshew can't be better than either of these players, just can't be, for reasons.

Hema2.0 · Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:22 pm

I will say this... If Fields progresses to anywhere near his ceiling, nobody will think twice about Minshew. It's a total crapshoot, but the drafting of Fields leaves this topic as a moot point to me, because Minshew would probably only be here this year anyways. But I've been wrong before.

RichH55 · Thu Dec 09, 2021 6:27 pm

malk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:01 pm
Hema2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:18 pm I'm confused. With Fields falling into our laps, why do we care so much about Minshew?

Is this thread more about Pace and his handling of the QB position? Would any of you want Minshew over Fields?
I wouldn't say that I care that much but I do find it really interesting and that's enough to get me to post about it, the discussion is fun I guess.

But on the question, I'm honestly not sure. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with Fields and I'm not judging him on this season's stats with a deeply inept Nagy offence, but I can't tell you how happy I'd be to see a Bears QB come out with two seasons like Minshew's first couple. So there's a part of me that wonders just why it is that everyone should be so confident that it's a slam dunk that Fields will be better?

I mean, Minshew did a lot better as a rookie/sophomore than "generational talent" Trevor Lawrence is currently doing, and Jax have a top 10 offensive line in both run blocking and pass pro. For reference Football Outsiders had them at 25th in pass pro in 2020 and 16th in 2019.

But Minshew can't be better than either of these players, just can't be, for reasons.

Not to rain on a good rant

But ESPN has Jags as 22nd in Pass Block Win rate *(Behind Bears)

AND 30th in Run Block Win Rate

malk · Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:36 am

RichH55 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 6:27 pm
malk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:01 pm

I wouldn't say that I care that much but I do find it really interesting and that's enough to get me to post about it, the discussion is fun I guess.

But on the question, I'm honestly not sure. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with Fields and I'm not judging him on this season's stats with a deeply inept Nagy offence, but I can't tell you how happy I'd be to see a Bears QB come out with two seasons like Minshew's first couple. So there's a part of me that wonders just why it is that everyone should be so confident that it's a slam dunk that Fields will be better?

I mean, Minshew did a lot better as a rookie/sophomore than "generational talent" Trevor Lawrence is currently doing, and Jax have a top 10 offensive line in both run blocking and pass pro. For reference Football Outsiders had them at 25th in pass pro in 2020 and 16th in 2019.

But Minshew can't be better than either of these players, just can't be, for reasons.
Not to rain on a good rant

But ESPN has Jags as 22nd in Pass Block Win rate *(Behind Bears)

AND 30th in Run Block Win Rate

Interesting. Football Outsiders was always my go to for line ratings. Lawrence hasn't been taking many sacks either so I'd assumed that them being top ten seemed reasonable. I haven't watched them though so might be way off!

The Marshall Plan · Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:39 am

Guys I just want you to know how proud I am of all of us.

This thread has been going on, with valid and relevant comments, since February.

21 pages long.
606 posts.

This thread may be the greatest one in the history of this website.

Cheers men!

Boris13c · Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:00 am

The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:39 am Guys I just want you to know how proud I am of all of us.

This thread has been going on, with valid and relevant comments, since February.

21 pages long.
606 posts.

This thread may be the greatest one in the history of this website.

Cheers men!

and the original post was valid ... at the time, when the only QB the Bears had under contract was Foles, Minshew WAS a viable and potentially entertaining option ... I think among these pages is also a joke about how funny it would be as Minshew replaced Foles in Jacksonville and would then come to Chicago to replace him again

for all the new folks who have only chimed in lately, please go back to the original posts to get your bearings ... this has nothing to do with Justin Fields as getting Fields was not yet even a luck occurrence ... so this was never about Minshew over Fields

malk · Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:14 pm

The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:39 am Guys I just want you to know how proud I am of all of us.

This thread has been going on, with valid and relevant comments, since February.

21 pages long.
606 posts.

This thread may be the greatest one in the history of this website.

Cheers men!

Just wait until page 100 when we're discussing whether he should be a first ballot Hall of Famer!

HisRoyalSweetness · Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:50 pm

malk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:14 pm Just wait until page 100 when we're discussing whether he should be a first ballot Hall of Famer!

Well I think we can all agree right now that Gardner's moustache is Hall of Fame worthy and fully deserving of its own plinth in Canton.

HisRoyalSweetness · Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:09 pm

Gardner Minshew should draw trade interest in offseason

But the ramifications of Minshew's game should linger into the offseason, where his performance last week versus the Jets -- 20 of 25 for 242 yards with two touchdowns and no interceptions -- is sure to draw interest from teams around the NFL. He already has.

Sources say during the season, the Carolina Panthers spoke with Philly about Minshew, discussing what the compensation would be. They never dug deep on a possible trade, but they did discuss what it might take.

The Panthers called before they acquired Matt Barkley and before they signed Cam Newton. Given the way Minshew played, they won't be alone.

When Philly traded with the Jaguars for him, they gave up a sixth-rounder. Under contract through 2022, Minshew could generate enough interest to give the team an interesting choice next offseason.

Most teams view Minshew as at least a bridge starter with upside; at worst he's a high-level backup. Could he generate at least a mid-round pick, giving the Eagles an upgrade considering what they gave up in compensation? Perhaps.

There are questions to be answered in Philadelphia when it comes to the quarterback position, and some will be determined by how Hurts plays the rest of the season. But Minshew's performance gives them added intrigue heading into the offseason.

Full article: https://www.nfl.com/news/jalen-hurts-ex ... e-interest

We couldn't even give Foles away...

malk · Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:13 am

HisRoyalSweetness wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:09 pm
Gardner Minshew should draw trade interest in offseason

But the ramifications of Minshew's game should linger into the offseason, where his performance last week versus the Jets -- 20 of 25 for 242 yards with two touchdowns and no interceptions -- is sure to draw interest from teams around the NFL. He already has.

Sources say during the season, the Carolina Panthers spoke with Philly about Minshew, discussing what the compensation would be. They never dug deep on a possible trade, but they did discuss what it might take.

The Panthers called before they acquired Matt Barkley and before they signed Cam Newton. Given the way Minshew played, they won't be alone.

When Philly traded with the Jaguars for him, they gave up a sixth-rounder. Under contract through 2022, Minshew could generate enough interest to give the team an interesting choice next offseason.

Most teams view Minshew as at least a bridge starter with upside; at worst he's a high-level backup. Could he generate at least a mid-round pick, giving the Eagles an upgrade considering what they gave up in compensation? Perhaps.

There are questions to be answered in Philadelphia when it comes to the quarterback position, and some will be determined by how Hurts plays the rest of the season. But Minshew's performance gives them added intrigue heading into the offseason.

Full article: https://www.nfl.com/news/jalen-hurts-ex ... e-interest
We couldn't even give Foles away...

And a mention of Matt Barkley in the same article :cries: what could have been if Pace had the balls to give him a cheap backup deal from 2017 where he could actually spend time in a scheme whilst a rookie sits behind him. Instead we get:

$16.5m for 1-3 Glennon
$5m for 1-1 Daniel, $5m for 0-1 Daniel
$17m (over however long but for one year and an occupied roster spot for 1/2 more years) for 2-5 Foles.
$10m for 2-2 Dalton.

A massive error in Glennon and then a parade of guys with zero upside for significantly higher cap usage and no better production than a random draft pick or any other retread QB. I'll never understand the desire for an expensive, proven to be mediocre QB to mostly hold a clipboard when it prevents you from having the outside shot at a Prescott, Wilson, Minshew etc.

crueltyabc · Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:26 am

RichH55 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:35 am
crueltyabc wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:33 am I think at the very least we can see some success from Minshew and conclude that Dalton is/was nothing special and he didn't need to be signed ASAP. If Pace was actually bold he would have waited until after the draft and taken from the remaining options.
There is no guarantee that we were going to be able to draft a QB high though. Nor that Jags were going to let him go and cheaply

You would have been ok potentially going into the Season with Nick Foles and no other QB?

Picking from the leftovers at a position that people overpay and overdraft already - Or trying to trade for a QB when people KNOW you need one?

This is a poor process

I never had any doubt that having 4 1st Round QBs available was going to result in the Bears landing one or the draft displacing a journeyman that could beat out Foles. They misjudged the Dalton's quality AND the market as a whole. That's what this thread is now about: an indictment of Pace and Nagy's approach to QBs in 2021 that resulted in Dalton getting overpaid and overplayed

Burl · Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:30 pm

The good thing about signing Dalton is that he is/was a known quantity, and therefore we can unequivocally say that Nagy sucks because he has underperformed relative to his previous work.

Interestingly, he and Mitch had about identical numbers coming into this year. Seeing how Dalton fared vs. Mitch makes one wonder how good Mitch might be in another system elsewhere and how good Fields might be with competent coaches here.

Boris13c · Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:38 pm

crueltyabc wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:26 am
RichH55 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:35 am

There is no guarantee that we were going to be able to draft a QB high though. Nor that Jags were going to let him go and cheaply

You would have been ok potentially going into the Season with Nick Foles and no other QB?

Picking from the leftovers at a position that people overpay and overdraft already - Or trying to trade for a QB when people KNOW you need one?

This is a poor process
I never had any doubt that having 4 1st Round QBs available was going to result in the Bears landing one or the draft displacing a journeyman that could beat out Foles. They misjudged the Dalton's quality AND the market as a whole. That's what this thread is now about: an indictment of Pace and Nagy's approach to QBs in 2021 that resulted in Dalton getting overpaid and overplayed

I don't think the indictment of Pace and Nagy in regards to their failure at the QB position should be limited to just 2021 ... they have screwed the pooch from the beginning ... Pace with his unnatural love of Trubisky and how he traded to get him ... but hey, they had the QB they wanted ... so it was Pace's job to hire a HC who could/would work to develop Pace's pet

Nagy was supposed to be a perfect fit ... offensive oriented QB guru, now put in charge of the care and development of a new young QB

Pace failed Trubisky by drafting him to the Bears ... Nagy failed Trubisky and the team by being anything but the QB whispering guru he was touted to be ... and now they have a new young QB in Fields to screw up and the team simply cannot afford to let that happen

RichH55 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:58 pm

malk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:13 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:09 pm

We couldn't even give Foles away...
And a mention of Matt Barkley in the same article :cries: what could have been if Pace had the balls to give him a cheap backup deal from 2017 where he could actually spend time in a scheme whilst a rookie sits behind him. Instead we get:

$16.5m for 1-3 Glennon
$5m for 1-1 Daniel, $5m for 0-1 Daniel
$17m (over however long but for one year and an occupied roster spot for 1/2 more years) for 2-5 Foles.
$10m for 2-2 Dalton.

A massive error in Glennon and then a parade of guys with zero upside for significantly higher cap usage and no better production than a random draft pick or any other retread QB. I'll never understand the desire for an expensive, proven to be mediocre QB to mostly hold a clipboard when it prevents you from having the outside shot at a Prescott, Wilson, Minshew etc.

Are we still pining for Matt Barkley?!?!?

A) Don't do that
B) I think you might owe G08 royalties for that

malk · Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:44 am

RichH55 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:58 pm
malk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:13 am

And a mention of Matt Barkley in the same article :cries: what could have been if Pace had the balls to give him a cheap backup deal from 2017 where he could actually spend time in a scheme whilst a rookie sits behind him. Instead we get:

$16.5m for 1-3 Glennon
$5m for 1-1 Daniel, $5m for 0-1 Daniel
$17m (over however long but for one year and an occupied roster spot for 1/2 more years) for 2-5 Foles.
$10m for 2-2 Dalton.

A massive error in Glennon and then a parade of guys with zero upside for significantly higher cap usage and no better production than a random draft pick or any other retread QB. I'll never understand the desire for an expensive, proven to be mediocre QB to mostly hold a clipboard when it prevents you from having the outside shot at a Prescott, Wilson, Minshew etc.

Are we still pining for Matt Barkley?!?!?

A) Don't do that
B) I think you might owe G08 royalties for that

I'm the OG Matt Barkley stan, and I stand by it!

HisRoyalSweetness · Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:26 am

Another bounce for the thread that refuses to die:

Gardner Minshew trade fits: Six teams that could use the Eagles QB in 2022

https://www.nfl.com/news/gardner-minshe ... qb-in-2022

The Marshall Plan · Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:26 am

HisRoyalSweetness wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:26 am Another bounce for the thread that refuses to die:

Gardner Minshew trade fits: Six teams that could use the Eagles QB in 2022

https://www.nfl.com/news/gardner-minshe ... qb-in-2022

Please God let this happen. Even if he’s here for a backup.

Shitstain Dalton will be gone.

Fails will be gone.

We’ll need a backup QB.

HisRoyalSweetness · Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:22 pm

Er, sorry to disappoint you TMP but the Bears aren't one of the 6 teams on the NFL article's list.

Minshew wouldn't want to come to Chicago anyway. He's got one year left on his rookie deal and he'll be looking for somewhere he's got a shot at being the starter and earn a big-money deal. He's played on some awful teams, so if he gets a chance with a half-decent one then it will be interesting to see how he does.

What I don't want the Bears to do is go down the veteran backup route again. It's just a waste of money. Fields is the starter going forward, but have another young QB to back him up and to develop on a dirt cheap deal. They might surprise, at least enough to have trade value like Minshew or Garoppolo. Heck, you might just luck into a Wilson, Prescott or Cousins. No more Chase Daniels or Nick Foles eating up cap space that could be spent on surrounding your starter with better talent and who have no upside or trade value (unless you can find a team as stupid as the Bears).

The Marshall Plan · Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:36 pm

HisRoyalSweetness wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:22 pm Er, sorry to disappoint you TMP but the Bears aren't one of the 6 teams on the NFL article's list.

Minshew wouldn't want to come to Chicago anyway. He's got one year left on his rookie deal and he'll be looking for somewhere he's got a shot at being the starter and earn a big-money deal. He's played on some awful teams, so if he gets a chance with a half-decent one then it will be interesting to see how he does.

What I don't want the Bears to do is go down the veteran backup route again. It's just a waste of money. Fields is the starter going forward, but have another young QB to back him up and to develop on a dirt cheap deal. They might surprise, at least enough to have trade value like Minshew or Garoppolo. Heck, you might just luck into a Wilson, Prescott or Cousins. No more Chase Daniels or Nick Foles eating up cap space that could be spent on surrounding your starter with better talent and who have no upside or trade value (unless you can find a team as stupid as the Bears).

In all sincerity you're 100% right. I can see the Bears most likely getting somebody off the dustbin. I doubt there'll even be a late round draft pick.

It's just that Pace is a dousche bag for not trading a 6th for Minshew on a rookie deal when he paid Dalton $10M and then Foles something crazy for playing solitaire on the Surface tablet.

dplank · Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:51 pm

I like Minshew but agree that our path now should be to draft and develop QB2/3. It creates trade value if they pop and doesn't cost you 10M for a backup like we've seen the last two years running now with Foles and Dalton.

RichH55 · Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:12 pm

In fairness - I dont really think either Foles or Dalton were brought in to be the backup

That might also be damning in itself

otis · Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:37 am

There must be something wrong with minshew that we can't see from the stands or stat sheets. Otherwise he would have gone for a higher pick or a lot earlier in the process. Want I want to know is why didn't Pittsburgh snap him up? With rapesburger done and their backups trash, they should have pounced, he seems like he would fit right in with Pittsburgh. So there must be more to him sucking than meets the eye.

IE · Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:43 pm

otis wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:37 am There must be something wrong with minshew that we can't see from the stands or stat sheets. Otherwise he would have gone for a higher pick or a lot earlier in the process. Want I want to know is why didn't Pittsburgh snap him up? With rapesburger done and their backups trash, they should have pounced, he seems like he would fit right in with Pittsburgh. So there must be more to him sucking than meets the eye.

Measurables, is my take. Presumptions of a low ceiling. But it is a bit surprising to me that he wasn't in demand because of his high floor. His stats are pretty strong considering the context. And then he goes out there for Philly and does the same thing. IMO that has to change the narrative on him at least a bit. "Oh - but it was the Jets". lol

The Marshall Plan · Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:59 pm

IE wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:43 pm
otis wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:37 am There must be something wrong with minshew that we can't see from the stands or stat sheets. Otherwise he would have gone for a higher pick or a lot earlier in the process. Want I want to know is why didn't Pittsburgh snap him up? With rapesburger done and their backups trash, they should have pounced, he seems like he would fit right in with Pittsburgh. So there must be more to him sucking than meets the eye.
Measurables, is my take. Presumptions of a low ceiling. But it is a bit surprising to me that he wasn't in demand because of his high floor. His stats are pretty strong considering the context. And then he goes out there for Philly and does the same thing. IMO that has to change the narrative on him at least a bit. "Oh - but it was the Jets". lol

Minshew doesn't fit the mold of a traditional NFL QB.

On the humorous side you have this whole white trash (I say that with love.) jorts making hillbilly persona.

Then on the more serious side he's 6 foot 1 inch tall.

In college, he went to Troy, then Northwest Mississippi Community College, and then East Carolina. Not exactly a traditional pedigree of success.

To his credit, he put up numbers, but so do a lot of guys in college.

In my opinion the only reason why he got drafted is because somebody Jacksonville's scouting department did their homework.

I think Minshew is going to be one of those guys that, due to injury, takes over a team and gets them into the playoffs and maybe even to a Super Bowl. From there, he'll get noticed and make something of himself.

malk · Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:33 pm

Lack of prototypical size, lack of wins and the combination of neither a top end deep ball nor elite ability to fit passes into tight windows. It's a mistake as he, despite a lack of experience, he's already pretty elite at not throwing interceptions and you'd expect upticks in the other elements of his game in a better offence. He's never going to have elite arm strength but 4.7% TD rate to 1.3% interception rate in his first 21 starts is a hell of a platform to build off.

If I were a GM that didn't have QB set I'd be making a hard push at him to explain how I'd hand him the reigns to the team with a long, guaranteed contract but with a low, for a QB average per year. Then how we'll build a team around him, including a great offensive line, that will will multiple rings and allow him to make all kinds on money in endorsements.

Maybe someone goes in higher but 5 years, $75m with $50m guaranteed. That's $30m of players, each and every year, that Mahomes has makes up for himself to reach parity. If the choice is between that and a journeyman contract with the hope of an injury, well I like those odds.

The Marshall Plan · Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:17 pm

Look at what showed up on Instagram!

He's back and better than ever!

RichH55 · Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:57 pm

The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:17 pm Look at what showed up on Instagram!

He's back and better than ever!

Marshall - hate to give you a Sophie's Choice like this

BUT - More Heroic (eat your heart out Audie Murphy)

Fields or Minshew?

The Marshall Plan · Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:20 pm

RichH55 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:57 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:17 pm Look at what showed up on Instagram!

He's back and better than ever!

Marshall - hate to give you a Sophie's Choice like this

BUT - More Heroic (eat your heart out Audie Murphy)

Fields or Minshew?

Minshew.

For now.

Minshew is his own Cult Of Personality and deservedly so. The mullet. The jorts. The quick wit. The commanding presence on social media.

If Miami Vice was set in Alabama or the deep woods of West Virginia, Minshew could play Sonny Crockett.

Fun Fact: One of the only non-Bears football jerseys I own is that of The Gardner.

Edit: While we're on the topic. That's what this team desperately needs. Personality.

Where are the Lamborghinis? The Ferrari's. The fur coats? Armies upon armies of half naked women accompanying these guys into training camp or waiting for them outside of Halas Hall?

Jim McMahon showing up to training camp carrying cases of beer. Dave Duerson barking at people. Mongo staring at people like Hannibal Lecter.

While I do think there's a good chance we could have a surprising team next year, the likelihood is that we suck. Let's at least have some style then.