Pace hot seat

[The Cooler King]

Pace has been a disaster of Nagy-ish proportions IMSO. We've won seven games a season while Pace has treated each year as a balls-out effort to win the SB. He's built an old, bad roster while robbing us of the future picks we'll need to turn it around.

He lacks the same executive function, I suspect, as Nagy. The ability to step back and say "Well, this is a shitshow," and then to figure out what to keep, what to scrap, and how to get where they want to go. Nagy might have given his rookie QB the dumbest game plan I've seen since the run-n-shoot. Pace traded up for that rookie, then sabotaged the line in front of him and the secondary that might have kept the pressure off.

They each continue to act like rookies, following the only playbook they know, mistaking tactics for strategy.

Enough.

I think Pace has been in large part a victim of the Nagy shit show more than anything else. Pace interviewed Nagy, and Nagy was able to talk a good game about football. But in the end he couldn't execute any of it. There was also no way for Pace to gauge how unbelievably stubborn or inflexible Nagy was going to be. In retrospect, and I posted it in another thread, I think Mitch was a good raw QB prospect, and Nagy completely fucked him up. None of the offensive players on the Bears roster have been put in an environment where they can succeed, and it's all been regressing since 2018. So to judge the talent of the roster through the lens of the Nagy offense is a little unfair to Pace.

There has to be a way to determine the risk of something like that. Or it's simply he took a chance knowing the higher risk associated. At the very least, if a guy coming in is supposed to be the offense guru, the actual history of direct offense control (and not just being a disciple of one guy and moving up the ranks due to attrition via poaching) is a significant signal of the risk. Anyways I don't see Pace a victim at all of Nagy and if he was, the difference between last January and now shouldn't have moved things in either direction. He kept him because he believed in him apparently. ( I don't know maybe he had no choice, but that would fly in the face of a lot of reporting that we've heard about McCaskey-Paces situation).

Now I'm sure Pace would claim he was brought into be more than a O guru, but I think anyone would call BS if he claimed thst wasn't a huge part of the hire.

[malk]

Pace has been a disaster of Nagy-ish proportions IMSO. We've won seven games a season while Pace has treated each year as a balls-out effort to win the SB. He's built an old, bad roster while robbing us of the future picks we'll need to turn it around.

He lacks the same executive function, I suspect, as Nagy. The ability to step back and say "Well, this is a shitshow," and then to figure out what to keep, what to scrap, and how to get where they want to go. Nagy might have given his rookie QB the dumbest game plan I've seen since the run-n-shoot. Pace traded up for that rookie, then sabotaged the line in front of him and the secondary that might have kept the pressure off.

They each continue to act like rookies, following the only playbook they know, mistaking tactics for strategy.

Enough.

This in bold is the main problem with Pace. Zero thought given to anything but the season ahead and it's killed our cap and produced not even a single playoff win. He's not the worst player talent evaluator but can't construct a roster to win over an extended period. If we managed to hire a decent coach and Fields pans out we'd perhaps be a team that wins a playoff game every other year but only make one conference championship, which we lose.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

For me, the signing of Matt Nagy is far and away the biggest indictment of Pace's tenure as GM. Every decision he has made since has been coloured by that hiring.

As others have said, we have no real understanding of the level of talent on offense because it's been utterly inept with Nagy at the helm. It scored 30+ points in four consecutive games last year with Lazor calling the plays. People will rightly point to the calibre of defenses they were against, but it was the first time in over half a century that any Bears offense had managed that.

Meanwhile on defense we saw just how talented a group Pace managed to assemble virtually from scratch while Fangio was in charge then watched it dip under Pagano and now we're seeing signs that it's picking up again under Desai (although it's very early days). Quinn for example has got off to a racing start after being a non-factor last season because of the way he's being used.

Of course nobody's perfect and he's had misses, but it seems to me that overall Pace has a pretty good track record of identifying and bringing in talent, but it's mostly only shown up on defense. The defensive line rotation is a good example, where depth guys have come in every year and contributed. Quite a few of Pace's draft picks who weren't retained after their rookie deals went on to sign lucrative contracts with other teams and net comp picks.

You can't help but wonder if a different coach would be able to get a heck of a lot more out of this offensive talent than Nagy (it would be hard to get less) and perhaps vindicate Pace's player acquisition. Maybe if Nagy was fired midseason and an interim HC enjoyed some production with the offense then perceptions of Pace would change. That would be the best situation for him and the Bears.

As for Pace's management of the salary cap, I'd be interested to know from someone more knowledgeable about such issues than me whether the situation would have been fine if it wasn't for Covid and the unexpected drop in the cap as a result.

[The Cooler King]

As for Pace's management of the salary cap, I'd be interested to know from someone more knowledgeable about such issues than me whether the situation would have been fine if it wasn't for Covid and the unexpected drop in the cap as a result.

Undoubtedly the covid crunch played some role. Absent the covid crunch, he was managing the cap aggressively. I think it's more a personal preference thing really. And I personally fall on the side of agressive cap management. Absent that personal preference debate though, I can certainly point to many bad deals. But I can point to winners too. So you're left with overall results, which of course is about a lot and primarily more than cap management, and it's just not there as a package.

But I would say anyone who says they're maxed out cap wise probably doesn't really know what they're talking about most likely.

[Grizzled]

Take a page from...the successfully rebuilt Cleveland Browns. Fired the GM and HC to get the right ones. Took a bit but they're doing something right.

[malk]

For me, the signing of Matt Nagy is far and away the biggest indictment of Pace's tenure as GM. Every decision he has made since has been coloured by that hiring.

As others have said, we have no real understanding of the level of talent on offense because it's been utterly inept with Nagy at the helm. It scored 30+ points in four consecutive games last year with Lazor calling the plays. People will rightly point to the calibre of defenses they were against, but it was the first time in over half a century that any Bears offense had managed that.

Meanwhile on defense we saw just how talented a group Pace managed to assemble virtually from scratch while Fangio was in charge then watched it dip under Pagano and now we're seeing signs that it's picking up again under Desai (although it's very early days). Quinn for example has got off to a racing start after being a non-factor last season because of the way he's being used.

Of course nobody's perfect and he's had misses, but it seems to me that overall Pace has a pretty good track record of identifying and bringing in talent, but it's mostly only shown up on defense. The defensive line rotation is a good example, where depth guys have come in every year and contributed. Quite a few of Pace's draft picks who weren't retained after their rookie deals went on to sign lucrative contracts with other teams and net comp picks.

You can't help but wonder if a different coach would be able to get a heck of a lot more out of this offensive talent than Nagy (it would be hard to get less) and perhaps vindicate Pace's player acquisition. Maybe if Nagy was fired midseason and an interim HC enjoyed some production with the offense then perceptions of Pace would change. That would be the best situation for him and the Bears.

As for Pace's management of the salary cap, I'd be interested to know from someone more knowledgeable about such issues than me whether the situation would have been fine if it wasn't for Covid and the unexpected drop in the cap as a result.

You can get a list of the cap over the years on wiki, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_ca ... all_League. So it's reasonable to assume that the cap this year would have been $28-30m more and that obviously puts a dent into every team's plans. But I also think that avoids the real question and that's why we were so close up to the cap without having to pay a franchise QB?

And look at it this way, Pace's plan was for Trubisky to succeed and if he had then we'd have had to find $24m for his 5th year option (so an additional $10m over the $14m or so we're paying to Dalton and Fields). Then that would have gone up to $30+ to sign him to a long term deal, starting around 2022 when we have $46m tied up in Mack and Quinn, $15m in Jackson, $11m in Goldman, $12m in Whitehair. And sure, it isn't that those are outrageous numbers for the positions (Mack's aside) but they're all significant increases over previous years. So he was backloading the cap into seasons where we had reason to believe we'd need a huge chunk to spend on the QB!

Then you're looking at a big contract for Smith, potentially for Montgomery, plus I'm not factoring in any space for new free agents to plug gaps when you're looking to compete.

So overall we were put in a harder position than some other teams with the pandemic related cap reduction but the considerations are why was our cap situation like that given where we are in our team's development cycle and what on earth was he thinking in regards to planning to resign existing talent? [*]

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

You can't help but wonder if a different coach would be able to get a heck of a lot more out of this offensive talent than Nagy (it would be hard to get less) and perhaps vindicate Pace's player acquisition. Maybe if Nagy was fired midseason and an interim HC enjoyed some production with the offense then perceptions of Pace would change. That would be the best situation for him and the Bears.

This is exactly the point, and why Pace MUST sell McCaskey on firing Nagy mid year if play calling doesn't change hands. HAS TO. Otherwise he won't be able to demonstrate the talent that that is actually on the team. He probably told Nagy that if he doesn't give up play calling, he would be fired if the next game didn't go well. Pace is in the process of disconnecting himself from Nagy and saving his own skin. He knows what the level of talent is on the Bears right now, and after that gameplan/play calling disaster against the Browns, he has no choice. @WAB said that Nagy looked like a scolded child in that presser. And he did. Nagy was probably told what I said above. "Give up offensive game planning and play calling, or if the next game does not go well, I will have no choice but to fire you. Your decision." That's why Nagy is saying that everything is on the table.

[dplank]

We passed on Bruce Arians. We hired Marc Trestman. I mean, when have we ever gotten this right? Our first qualification for GM needs to be his ability to find a good head coach. Only then can you achieve stability.

Is Ryan Pace the best guy available for that decision?

[TheWorldBreaker]

We passed on Bruce Arians. We hired Marc Trestman. I mean, when have we ever gotten this right? Our first qualification for GM needs to be his ability to find a good head coach. Only then can you achieve stability.

Is Ryan Pace the best guy available for that decision?

He is not.

[karhu]

I think Pace has been in large part a victim of the Nagy shit show more than anything else.

No.

Is there a character limit here?

No, he's no more a victim of Nagy than dimwitted and bewildered parents at the supermarket are the victims of their children. He's the problem.

[karhu]

Pace has been a disaster of Nagy-ish proportions IMSO. We've won seven games a season while Pace has treated each year as a balls-out effort to win the SB. He's built an old, bad roster while robbing us of the future picks we'll need to turn it around.

He lacks the same executive function, I suspect, as Nagy. The ability to step back and say "Well, this is a shitshow," and then to figure out what to keep, what to scrap, and how to get where they want to go. Nagy might have given his rookie QB the dumbest game plan I've seen since the run-n-shoot. Pace traded up for that rookie, then sabotaged the line in front of him and the secondary that might have kept the pressure off.

They each continue to act like rookies, following the only playbook they know, mistaking tactics for strategy.

Enough.

This in bold is the main problem with Pace. Zero thought given to anything but the season ahead and it's killed our cap and produced not even a single playoff win. He's not the worst player talent evaluator but can't construct a roster to win over an extended period. If we managed to hire a decent coach and Fields pans out we'd perhaps be a team that wins a playoff game every other year but only make one conference championship, which we lose.

BIngo. He's Kenny Williams without the Stanford education and championship baggage.

[The Marshall Plan]

We passed on Bruce Arians. We hired Marc Trestman.

This. Right here.

This is the Back To The Future moment.

There are a lot of moments with this franchise where the Choose Your Own Adventure selection immediately went right into the volcano.

But Bruce Arians. That was the split off in the timeline that doomed us.

[mmmc_35]

Honestly Pace should be on the hot seat.

I say that and like some of the way he operates. However after years this roster isnt great.

I kind of like some of his draft strategy. More of how he selects players. 1st round high upside, 2nd and 3rd round good players 4-7 smaller school prospects. I do wish he was a bit less risk adverse in the 1st. I'm not a fan of trading away picks as much as he is.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

We passed on Bruce Arians. We hired Marc Trestman.

This. Right here.

This is the Back To The Future moment.

There are a lot of moments with this franchise where the Choose Your Own Adventure selection immediately went right into the volcano.

But Bruce Arians. That was the split off in the timeline that doomed us.

Emery hired Trestman. Not Pace.

I think we are going to go the way of The Bambino curse. We fired Lovie after a 10-6 season. It's the curse of Lovie. The football Gods could not tolerate a winning coach being fired, and we as fans are now paying the price.

[dplank]

Yes 100% I know Emory chunked that hire. Just saying....because Bears. We never seem to get it right.

Pace has two hires under his tenure, Fox and Nagy. Fox was clearly thrust upon him by ownership, so it's hard to blame him for that one. Nagy was at least a sought after hire (unlike Trestman), so it's not as bad as the Arians/Trestman debacle. So JMO, but I see Pace has had only 1 swing at a coaching hire. Unfortunately for him, I also think it's the only swing he should get. I just don't trust him to make the next hire.

[wab]

Yes 100% I know Emory chunked that hire. Just saying....because Bears. We never seem to get it right.

Pace has two hires under his tenure, Fox and Nagy. Fox was clearly thrust upon him by ownership, so it's hard to blame him for that one. Nagy was at least a sought after hire (unlike Trestman), so it's not as bad as the Arians/Trestman debacle. So JMO, but I see Pace has had only 1 swing at a coaching hire. Unfortunately for him, I also think it's the only swing he should get. I just don't trust him to make the next hire.

I'm not trying to be on Team Trestman because (aside from one glorious year) his tenure was a disaster. But he was also put into an impossible position with an aging veteran roster full of Lovie loyalists who hated him for reasons that weren't entirely his fault.

[Moriarty]

We passed on Bruce Arians. We hired Marc Trestman.

This. Right here.

This is the Back To The Future moment.

There are a lot of moments with this franchise where the Choose Your Own Adventure selection immediately went right into the volcano.

But Bruce Arians. That was the split off in the timeline that doomed us.

Regardless of how good Arians might be, no coach that has ever or will ever live would have succeeded in that situation.
He'd have retired or been fired in 2-3 years, same as Trestman. And he'd probably never have been given the chance to come back that he got, either.

[karhu]

Regardless of how good Arians might be, no coach that has ever or will ever live would have succeeded in that situation.
He'd have retired or been fired in 2-3 years, same as Trestman. And he'd probably never have been given the chance to come back that he got, either.

Story checks out.

[TheWorldBreaker]

Yes 100% I know Emory chunked that hire. Just saying....because Bears. We never seem to get it right.

Pace has two hires under his tenure, Fox and Nagy. Fox was clearly thrust upon him by ownership, so it's hard to blame him for that one. Nagy was at least a sought after hire (unlike Trestman), so it's not as bad as the Arians/Trestman debacle. So JMO, but I see Pace has had only 1 swing at a coaching hire. Unfortunately for him, I also think it's the only swing he should get. I just don't trust him to make the next hire.

I'm not trying to be on Team Trestman because (aside from one glorious year) his tenure was a disaster. But he was also put into an impossible position with an aging veteran roster full of Lovie loyalists who hated him for reasons that weren't entirely his fault.

I think Arians would have won over that locker room and commanded a lot more respect than Trestman did. It seemed like they just walked all over Trestman and he just put up with it.

He also would have put together a better staff, in my opinion. So things would have gone better.

But with Phil Emery as a GM there would have been a talent deficiency because of all of his bungling.

[Moriarty]

I'm not trying to be on Team Trestman because (aside from one glorious year) his tenure was a disaster. But he was also put into an impossible position with an aging veteran roster full of Lovie loyalists who hated him for reasons that weren't entirely his fault.

I think Arians would have won over that locker room and commanded a lot more respect than Trestman did. It seemed like they just walked all over Trestman and he just put up with it.

If Trestman had been allowed to rebuild, like the situation called for, then Trestman would have been free to kick the malcontents to the curb and make an example of them.
Unfortunately, he was given suicidal orders to keep the defense intact and keep trying to extend the window. Trestman had no choice in the matter.

[The Cooler King]

Yes 100% I know Emory chunked that hire. Just saying....because Bears. We never seem to get it right.

Pace has two hires under his tenure, Fox and Nagy. Fox was clearly thrust upon him by ownership, so it's hard to blame him for that one. Nagy was at least a sought after hire (unlike Trestman), so it's not as bad as the Arians/Trestman debacle. So JMO, but I see Pace has had only 1 swing at a coaching hire. Unfortunately for him, I also think it's the only swing he should get. I just don't trust him to make the next hire.

I'm not trying to be on Team Trestman because (aside from one glorious year) his tenure was a disaster. But he was also put into an impossible position with an aging veteran roster full of Lovie loyalists who hated him for reasons that weren't entirely his fault.

From the forced Emery:Lovie marriage to Emery not realizing the D needed to be torn down, yea the trajectory was bad.

I won't say it was an impossible situation, but it was definitely a contributing factor to the speed at which Trestman failed I think.

[Grizzled]

We passed on Bruce Arians. We hired Marc Trestman. I mean, when have we ever gotten this right? Our first qualification for GM needs to be his ability to find a good head coach. Only then can you achieve stability.

Is Ryan Pace the best guy available for that decision?

Supposedly Arians was offered the job but was told he couldn't hire his own assistants, which killed the deal for him. As for Pace, 2 strikes and you're out. He has no judgement to hire another guy. I think that's why he's been so quiet, he's thinking what he needs to do to save his future.

[crueltyabc]

I think he's OK and at some point OK isn't good enough. I would have moved on last year because it felt like the timing would have been appropriate for a new GM to start with a new QB but that's the past and I guess now I think he should be fired this year and hopefully good candidates are interested in working with Fields, an aging Khalil Mack, a few good young players, and some cap space.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

We passed on Bruce Arians. We hired Marc Trestman. I mean, when have we ever gotten this right? Our first qualification for GM needs to be his ability to find a good head coach. Only then can you achieve stability.

Is Ryan Pace the best guy available for that decision?

Supposedly Arians was offered the job but was told he couldn't hire his own assistants, which killed the deal for him. As for Pace, 2 strikes and you're out. He has no judgement to hire another guy. I think that's why he's been so quiet, he's thinking what he needs to do to save his future.

He's had one strike. Nagy. Fox was a McCaskey and Accorsi hire.

I've said it before. Here's what he's doing right now:
1. Lobbying to George that his roster is better than its performance, and citing Nagy's complete mismanagement of the game planning and play calling. Telling George that if they are able to fire Nagy by week five or six, the season could still be salvaged.
2. Distancing himself from Nagy, and laying out clear lines in the sand to force him to basically give up management of the offense, and turn it over to Lazor and Flip. If he doesn't and doesn't win, he's fired.

There are reports that Nagy has no one behind him at Halas anymore, and that starts with Pace. He's in full save my ass mode right now. If Nagy calls plays on Sunday, and we end up with shit on offense, win or lose, he will be gone. Pace has no choice and must do it to save his own job. Look at him in the presser on Monday and today. Nagy knows he no longer has allies in the building. He knows his time is short. He's not going to give up play calling, and he's going to go down swinging still believing in his own genius.

[The Cooler King]

We passed on Bruce Arians. We hired Marc Trestman. I mean, when have we ever gotten this right? Our first qualification for GM needs to be his ability to find a good head coach. Only then can you achieve stability.

Is Ryan Pace the best guy available for that decision?

Supposedly Arians was offered the job but was told he couldn't hire his own assistants, which killed the deal for him. As for Pace, 2 strikes and you're out. He has no judgement to hire another guy. I think that's why he's been so quiet, he's thinking what he needs to do to save his future.

I thought that rumor was debunked. My understanding was Emery asked him about keeping Marinelli specifically and Arians thought it was an odd request and didn't plan to. But supposedly George and Ted wanted Arians, Arians wanted the Bears, and hevwas hanging around some airport hotel waiting for an offer, but Emery was set on Trestman. Then Arians flew off to AZ.

[Z Bear]

Did everyone forget Arians had limited success and was let go by the Cardinals? What makes you think it would have been any different here?

[The Cooler King]

Did everyone forget Arians had limited success and was let go by the Cardinals? What makes you think it would have been any different here?

I think he probably has a slightly better record, but does flame out as Emery struggles to rebuild the talent losses. Absolutely. But perhaps makes it to year 4.

[Grizzled]

I wonder if Arians could have gotten through to Cutler. He had success with Big Ben and Manning, now with Brady.

[The Cooler King]

I wonder if Arians could have gotten through to Cutler. He had success with Big Ben and Manning, now with Brady.

Trestman arguably did the first year too.

But yea I think Arians probably would have had some success with Jay. Maybe not PB, but good outcomes. I don't know if him and Cutty beat to the same drum, but a players coach is a players coach still. Probably would have figured out which buttons to push and when. Certainly his aggressiveness would have been good at times (disastrous at others).

[Grizzled]

I wonder if Arians could have gotten through to Cutler. He had success with Big Ben and Manning, now with Brady.

Trestman arguably did the first year too.

But yea I think Arians probably would have had some success with Jay. Maybe not PB, but good outcomes. I don't know if him and Cutty beat to the same drum, but a players coach is a players coach still. Probably would have figured out which buttons to push and when. Certainly his aggressiveness would have been good at times (disastrous at others).

Agree totally. Arians was a QB guy.