2022 Combine Talk

[Moriarty]

Came across this:
https://www.battleredblog.com/2022/1/5/ ... fl-combine

1) Boring stuff. Modifying drills and routes to be more representative. Fine.

2) Dropping the Wonderlic. Don't like that. While many scores are in the "doesn't make any difference" range, terrible scores matter for most positions, and a few positions, I want to know scores (hypothetically as a team rep - they clamped down and we never learned most scores lately, anyway, as a fan).

3) Penalties for "Inappropriate" Questions. Whoa.
I agree that some questioning was in poor taste. And I get that current cultural climate is that everyone wants to claim they've been offended and disrespected as much as possible and stir up outrage.
But odd or aggressive questions in order to finally hear something unrehearsed from a player isn't totally pointless, either.
And the magnitude of the penalties...!!!

Spygate (blatant, deliberate cheating) cost 1 R1
Bountgate (vicious, scummy, heavily organized attempts to injure other players) cost 2 R2
And an inappropriate question could cost you almost as much? And there's no option for a "warning penalty", either. It starts at a R4, minimum.
Way too heavy-handed for one of the smallest issues facing the sport.

[Moriarty]

Invite List:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-scout ... -by-school

[Grizzled]

Not really sure the purpose of the Combine, there is tons of game film available and colleges have pro days. I guess guys can make an impression, good or bad, with their interviews. Teams don't seem to pulling a Mike Mamula as much anymore.

[thunderspirit]

Not really sure the purpose of the Combine, there is tons of game film available and colleges have pro days. I guess guys can make an impression, good or bad, with their interviews. Teams don't seem to pulling a Mike Mamula as much anymore.

Honestly, it's mostly to get a medical baseline on a lot of the guys. The drills matter, because thresholds matter, but more to see what a guy might be capable of with NFL coaching than dismissing game tape. And yes, the interviews matter, no more so than guys with questionable shit in their past.

[Atkins&Rebel]

The combine will always be relevant because teams and individuals don't face the same talent in a given year. Putting everyone in the same generic drill and performing the same metric tests gives the evaluators a base line.

[Grizzled]

Good points by A&R and Thunder. But the combines are not a physical competition, guys directly going against each other nor executing plays like in the college "all-star" games. These provide some way to see how guys who haven't faced each other and guys from small programs stack up with a higher level of competition. NFL coaching staffs direct the players in at least one of the games. Drills - 3 cone, how far a QB can toss a ball, 40 times, etc. provide some additional info and teams thrive on learning as much as possible about potential draft picks but should not be considered too strongly when considering a guy.

[thunderspirit]

Invite List:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-scout ... -by-school

Couple of mild surprises on who didn't receive an invite. Tyler Vrabel, Jaylan Alexander, and Christian Benford (Villanova DB) probably most so. Maybe Sterling Weatherford or Zyon Gilbert, just to see how they'd run.

[Atkins&Rebel]

Good points by A&R and Thunder. But the combines are not a physical competition, guys directly going against each other nor executing plays like in the college "all-star" games. These provide some way to see how guys who haven't faced each other and guys from small programs stack up with a higher level of competition. NFL coaching staffs direct the players in at least one of the games. Drills - 3 cone, how far a QB can toss a ball, 40 times, etc. provide some additional info and teams thrive on learning as much as possible about potential draft picks but should not be considered too strongly when considering a guy.

I personally wouldn't draft a workout guy over a proven football guy just because he showed up to the combine a got a top score.
But if you have similar football grades on guys, then you can take the superior athlete from the combine data and not look back.

One other thing the combine does, is show the level of prep the player is willing to put into it as part of the process, and the level of effort they put in while at the combine.

[Grizzled]

Good points by A&R and Thunder. But the combines are not a physical competition, guys directly going against each other nor executing plays like in the college "all-star" games. These provide some way to see how guys who haven't faced each other and guys from small programs stack up with a higher level of competition. NFL coaching staffs direct the players in at least one of the games. Drills - 3 cone, how far a QB can toss a ball, 40 times, etc. provide some additional info and teams thrive on learning as much as possible about potential draft picks but should not be considered too strongly when considering a guy.

I personally wouldn't draft a workout guy over a proven football guy just because he showed up to the combine a got a top score.
But if you have similar football grades on guys, then you can take the superior athlete from the combine data and not look back.

One other thing the combine does, is show the level of prep the player is willing to put into it as part of the process, and the level of effort they put in while at the combine.

More good points.

[dplank]

Coaches also lie about their players to try and boost them. Often guys come into the combine at 6'4 and come out of the combine at 6'2. Same with hand size, arm length, etc. So having one consistent measure of the players physique, speed, power, etc is super valuable and removes any shenanigan's from the coaches. And the volume of players they need to scout is pretty massive, so it's just super efficient/convenient to bring them all into one location to do everything vs having to fly all over the country. They'll fly around for pro days with the majors anyways, but not every school.

[wab]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this, but man...I can't wait to watch this dude at the combine.

[dplank]

Jarron Gilbert is jealous

[thunderspirit]

Jarron Gilbert is jealous

Fair point.

But Neal can play.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Here's a bit of analysis from everybody's favourite Sports Mockery, looking at which drills/performance levels Poles' previous team the Chiefs appear to prioritise when selecting players at various positions (with the implication that Poles may do the same): https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... th-chiefs/

To summarise:

Wide receivers: Prefer a vertical jump of 36 inches or higher
9/13 WRs the Chiefs drafted since 2009 jumped at least this height.

Offensive line: Must bench at least 25 reps
6/7 lineman they drafted who participated in the press managed to meet or exceed this standard.

Cornerback: Desired a 4.20 or lower for the 20-yard shuttle
5/13 CBs the Chiefs drafted managed this time or lower. (Only 2 CBs did in 2020. One was drafted by the Chiefs, the other was Jaylon Johnson.)

Pass rusher: Needed a broad jump of 115 inches or higher
7/8 of the DE/OLBs the Chiefs drafted managed to jump this.

[wab]

Here's a bit of analysis from everybody's favourite Sports Mockery, looking at which drills/performance levels Poles' previous team the Chiefs appear to prioritise when selecting players at various positions (with the implication that Poles may do the same): https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... th-chiefs/

To summarise:

Offensive line: Must bench at least 25 reps
6/7 lineman they drafted who participated in the press managed to meet or exceed this standard.

FWIW Jenkins did 36 reps and Borom did 21.

[Moriarty]

Brutal day for David Bell

I won't be drafting Jelani Woods in R7 anymore

[Moriarty]

This is, officially, the fastest receiver group in NFL Combine history. Nine receivers totaled sub-4.4 times in the 40-yard dash, breaking the previous record of seven set in 2019

[Moriarty]

While everyone is (rightly) raving about Christian Watson, Isaiah Weston was every bit as impressive.

[thunderspirit]

While everyone is (rightly) raving about Christian Watson, Isaiah Weston was every bit as impressive.

Weston's times were great, no question.

He's also a year and half older than Watson, mind you. (Weston's birthday is 10/25/1997, Watson's is 5/12/1999.) But that also means you won't need the same investment for him.

[Moriarty]

Devonte Wyatt probably flies past 39 with a 4.77

But the real HOLY SHIT is Jordan Davis at 4.78


at 340 pounds!!!!

[thunderspirit]

Davis' performance was amazeballs.

[Z Bear]

How is Jordan Davis not the first defensive player off the board? You can't teach that size and athleticism plus he produced on the field and has great tape. Dude is the next Akeem Hicks

[Moriarty]

WRs, CBs, AND safeties all extremely fast this year.

What's happening??

Was there a new surface?
Are athletes really that much improved?
Do adjustments need to be made for comparisons to past years/players?

[crueltyabc]

I heard they put in a new surface in 2020 and it’s fast but even if you tease the numbers up it’s still a fast group that didn’t bother to train the agility drills

[RichH55]

Came across this:
https://www.battleredblog.com/2022/1/5/ ... fl-combine

1) Boring stuff. Modifying drills and routes to be more representative. Fine.

2) Dropping the Wonderlic. Don't like that. While many scores are in the "doesn't make any difference" range, terrible scores matter for most positions, and a few positions, I want to know scores (hypothetically as a team rep - they clamped down and we never learned most scores lately, anyway, as a fan).

3) Penalties for "Inappropriate" Questions. Whoa.
I agree that some questioning was in poor taste. And I get that current cultural climate is that everyone wants to claim they've been offended and disrespected as much as possible and stir up outrage.
But odd or aggressive questions in order to finally hear something unrehearsed from a player isn't totally pointless, either.
And the magnitude of the penalties...!!!

Spygate (blatant, deliberate cheating) cost 1 R1
Bountgate (vicious, scummy, heavily organized attempts to injure other players) cost 2 R2
And an inappropriate question could cost you almost as much? And there's no option for a "warning penalty", either. It starts at a R4, minimum.
Way too heavy-handed for one of the smallest issues facing the sport.

This is a bad take - no offense

Also "Way too heavy-handed for one of the smallest issues facing the sport."

It's not like its one or the other. They can have this AND other rules. Totally allowed to punish multiple things

"And there's no option for a "warning penalty","

They just did WARN them - How many times do you need to be told not to ask your potential employee if his mother was a Crack Whore?

Is that number really more than 1?

[RichH55]

WRs, CBs, AND safeties all extremely fast this year.

What's happening??

Was there a new surface?
Are athletes really that much improved?
Do adjustments need to be made for comparisons to past years/players?

I feel like its something (track and measurements). It seems to be all positions

[RichH55]

Devonte Wyatt probably flies past 39 with a 4.77

But the real HOLY SHIT is Jordan Davis at 4.78


at 340 pounds!!!!

Its a really good DL group overall

[thunderspirit]

Devonte Wyatt probably flies past 39 with a 4.77

But the real HOLY SHIT is Jordan Davis at 4.78


at 340 pounds!!!!

Its a really good DL group overall

It's an incredibly physically-talented DL group, no question.

It is not a statistically very productive DL group.
At. All.

[thunderspirit]

While everyone is (rightly) raving about Christian Watson, Isaiah Weston was every bit as impressive.

Relevant.

[karhu]

Relevant.

Also relevant.

Don't get me wrong--Weston's an awfully intriguing prospect. But to my mind, combine numbers just tell us how a player did what he did, which helps us understand whether he'll be able to do it as a pro. Weston didn't do a whole lot but run fast and be tall. Yeah, he's really fast and really tall, but everything I've seen and read about him suggests that he was a one-trick pony at UNI. And his numbers, impressive though they are, suggest that he doesn't have the kind of wiggle that so many great WRs rely on to refine their route-running. On top of that, we've already got a guy whose 40 and 20 splits were better than Weston's, so I'm not sure where he fits.

EDIT: By way of comparison, I like Dontario Drummond more for us as a late-round developmental guy.