Brian Flores suing NFL for discrimination and defamation

[UOK]

[southdakbearfan]

Seems like a stretch.

[Z Bear]

One sure fire way to ruin your career is sue all of your potential bosses....good luck with that!

[thunderspirit]

Wow, if even part of what's alleged there is true, this has the potential to be big.

The NFL can outspend practically anyone, of course, and might just pay to make this go away.

[wulfy]

Quite a move by Flores with several jobs still open in the cycle (Jax, Houston, New Orleans, Minnesota) ... not sure what he gained by doing this.

[UOK]

Seems like a stretch.

One sure fire way to ruin your career is sue all of your potential bosses....good luck with that!

Quite a move by Flores with several jobs still open in the cycle (Jax, Houston, New Orleans, Minnesota) ... not sure what he gained by doing this.

1. He knows his career is probably over; he's filing this lawsuit because he believes to be in the right (and probably is):



2. I think this is a very noble endeavor to attack a problem, a REAL problem that exists in the NFL. If you disagree, I'm sad for you.

3. Why would Flores lie? He's a young coach who was A1 on many people's lists until the Miami Herald hitpiece, including many fans on this board, and this is ultimately a sacrifice for the sake of attempting to right a wrong.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Almost certain to be settled out of court unless Flores is bold enough to refuse.
I don’t think he will refuse, I think he’ll settle.

Unlikely to get a job in NFL again, shame for him.
Quite a sacrifice to make.

[The Marshall Plan]

I did not see the Bears specifically mentioned which obviously is good.

Flores could easily have a case.

1) He was a candidate with previous HC experience.
2) He had his team on an upswing. Then he was terminated for allegedly having a falling out of some kind with management which can't really be that unique of a reason for being terminated as a head coach.
3) He was passed over for multiple jobs in favor of white candidates with less experience and success.
4) We now have documentation that a team's mind was made up already on a candidate in violation of the Rooney Rule.

Yeah, Flores has a slam dunk case if I ever saw one.

I hope he invests the settlement money well. Or if he lawyers up really good, takes it to court and wins a record breaking amount of money.

Not only should Flores win his case, but there needs to be a SERIOUS conversation about people at the Giants getting fired or losing ownership stakes because what they did was racist as fuck. None of this draft pick bullshit. People need to be shown the door.

[southdakbearfan]

I can see the dolphins owner being in trouble for all the alleged issues with potential tampering and losing. I expect them to be fined heavily and sanctioned, owner will probably be banned for a season or two. Legally, I doubt they have any issues. He is still being paid as a contract employee even though he was fired and was hired in the first place.

As far as Bills text, hey I heard you are the man, sent to the wrong guy, prior to his interview is still a stretch as multiple other minority candidates had already been interviewed. Someone letting a rumor out to BB that BD was the top choice doesn’t mean much. Many job interview processes have info leak out when you have multiple interviews strung out over days. Unless the Giants have a smoking gun somewhere it’s all hearsay.

[Atkins&Rebel]

Well, the nuclear option is always interesting.
Guessing that Flores just wasn't able to answer questions about the messy divorce in Miami appropriately
The only case he might have is against the Dolphins, IMO...and that is only if he can prove his race was in any part a reason for termination.

[UOK]

Well, the nuclear option is always interesting.
Guessing that Flores just wasn't able to answer questions about the messy divorce in Miami appropriately
The only case he might have is against the Dolphins, IMO...and that is only if he can prove his race was in any part a reason for termination.

If he can prove the Dolphins were offering $100k per loss under the table in addition to a clandestine "coincidental" meeting with Watson, that's a real bad look. The Giants hiring Daboll weeks before it was official is scummy on several levels, but also ties into the meat of the Rooney Rule being kind of a horseshit thing that needs revision.

[Atkins&Rebel]

3. Why would Flores lie? He's a young coach who was A1 on many people's lists until the Miami Herald hitpiece, including many fans on this board, and this is ultimately a sacrifice for the sake of attempting to right a wrong.

I don't believe that Flores is "lying".
But I know too many people who genuinely believe whatever they convince themselves of. Their "truth" is reality for them
I have no love or hate for Flores, Would've cheered the guy on if we had hired him.
But, there is the possibility that he's simply an asshole.

I'm willing to wait and see if he can present his "facts" or if he quickly cuts a deal and runs.
That will be the most telling thing for me, as someone who'd like to see what his evidence is

[Atkins&Rebel]

Well, the nuclear option is always interesting.
Guessing that Flores just wasn't able to answer questions about the messy divorce in Miami appropriately
The only case he might have is against the Dolphins, IMO...and that is only if he can prove his race was in any part a reason for termination.

If he can prove the Dolphins were offering $100k per loss under the table in addition to a clandestine "coincidental" meeting with Watson, that's a real bad look. The Giants hiring Daboll weeks before it was official is scummy on several levels, but also ties into the meat of the Rooney Rule being kind of a horseshit thing that needs revision.

I mean yeah, The Dolphins could be on the hook for some illegal practices and other things that probably go against NFL bylaws, and he might be a whistleblower that helps get them fined, but he has to prove that race was the factor for him to have a case against them.

As far as the Giants, If they really liked Daboll that much, and had no intention of hiring another guy, then it was still on Flores to blow them out of the water with a great interview. BB could have simply been wrong about what he heard, or he could have been intentionally trying to sabotage Flores up to help Daboll get hired (If I'm doing a deep dive).

But Flores needs some other concrete evidence and show that he had a great interview and presented himself appropriately.

[dplank]

How do you think a guy like Brian Flores feels when he sees Josh McCown, with no coaching experience to speak of, get a gig before him? There's 1 black HC in the NFL - 1. That's beyond shameful.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Has McCown been hired? I've not seen anything to that effect, only a rumour.

My initial reaction from reading this story is that Flores is going to have a hard time proving his case against the Giants and Broncos.

His 'evidence' against the Giants is a message from the head coach of a different organisation? That's flimsy. Unless Belichick comes out and says where he got his information from it could just be him reacting to a rumour, as Daboll was the favourite for the Giants job after they hired fellow former Bill Joel Schoen as GM on 22 January. Belichick's message was dated 24 January.

Flores will also have a hard time proving his accusation against Elway and his executive team. Presumably Flores was on his own in that interview, so it's his word against the five of them. He'll also have to prove that it was 'racist' rather just unprofessional. That might be made harder by the fact that the Broncos' previous coach was Vance Joseph, which demonstrates that they are not adverse to hiring a black head coach.

I don't see that dredging up historical iniquities helps his case either. It rather smacks of grasping at straws. The landscape has changed, and rightfully so. How is pointing to a ban on black players that ended over 75 years ago in any way relevant? The issue is where the NFL at now. It has taken steps, via the Rooney Rule, to provide greater opportunities for minority candidates and has recently expanded that rule.

It is often suggested that because 70% of NFL players are people of colour (and nobody expresses concerns about that inequality) the number of minority coaches should be much higher, but this is a false dichotomy. How many NFL players go into coaching when they retire? A relatively small number. And being good enough to play in the NFL doesn't automatically equate to being a good coach. In fact the only Super Bowl winning head coach in recent years that I can recall playing in the NFL is Pederson, who was a practice squad/NFL Europe/3rd string QB, and is currently not employed. The expectation should be that the ethnic make-up of NFL coaches and executives is broadly reflective, over the long term, of American society, which would approximate 22 white, 5 black and 5 other minorities for the 32 positions.

In the 14 seasons prior to the Rooney Rule being introduced there were only between 1 and 3 minority head coaches in the NFL. In 11 of the next 15 years after it was introduced, up until 2017, there were between 6 and 8. (https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-hea ... ?r=US&IR=T) There will be fluctuations, especially given the limited number of jobs, and more recently numbers have fallen back with only Tomlin, Rivera and Saleh currently, but it's the overall trend that matters. There is clearly still work to be done, but the NFL has made efforts to address the issue and they have had an impact which will make Flores' case against the league difficult to win.

Flores strongest case would appear to be against the Dolphins. To be fired after back-to-back winning seasons was a shocker (although they didn't make the playoffs either time) and from the outside looking in most people believed his firing to be unfair. If his allegations against the owner can be proven then they're even more shocking. However, coaches can be fired despite enjoying some success if their relationship with their bosses deteriorates or they decide he's taken the team as far as he can. Lovie Smith got fired after a 10-6 season, John Fox after a 12-4 season in which he won his 4th straight AFC West title and only one season after taking his team to the Super Bowl.

It's all going to come down to what Flores can actually prove. I can understand him being angry and upset at getting fired and frustrated at not landing another head coaching job, but it's possible that he just didn't interview as well as other candidates. Competition for those coveted head coaching vacancies is fierce. He'll need an awfully strong case to convince a court that he was passed over because of the colour of his skin.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Brian Flores has called the NFL out on their discriminatory hiring practices, while most likely risking his chances of ever coaching in the NFL again. Per the class action lawsuit brought by Flores, the Giants had already chosen Daboll as their head coach. Violating the Rooney Rule.

"The lawsuit claims the New York Giants violated the league’s expansive guidelines covering inclusive hiring in picking their next head coach, and names the NFL, the Giants and the Denver Broncos as defendants. Included in Flores’ complaint are apparent screenshots of text messages in which New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick informed Flores that the Giants had already chosen Brian Daboll to be their new on-field leader while Flores was preparing to meet with Giants general manager Joe Schoen."

Flores was fired after two winning seasons in Miami. Another black head coach in the NFL David Culley was fired after only one season on the job, and was replaced almost immediately by Josh McCown.

It will be interesting to see how this lawsuit plays out, but whatever happens, it's not going to shine a positive light on the NFL. Primarily based on its past and recent minority hiring practices.

[Yogi da Bear]

Yawn.

No wonder Flores couldn't find a head coach spot.

[Teddy KGB]

The thing I most am interested in is that 2 more coaches are supposedly joining him. He'll need it, because after some of Flores' antics in Miami, unless that was bullshit leaked by the owner, he is going to have to deal with the defense totally assassinating his character.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

The thing I most am interested in is that 2 more coaches are supposedly joining him. He'll need it, because after some of Flores' antics in Miami, unless that was bullshit leaked by the owner, he is going to have to deal with the defense totally assassinating his character.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do, and this lawsuit is going to cost him his coaching career in the NFL. But you have to admit, the NFL, with all of it's supposed concentration on the hiring of minorities into leadership positions, has not done a great job. Flores is not without flaws, but if what Belichick is saying is true, that Flores' meeting with the Giants was a sham interview, that's going to be a huge PR problem for them.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Yawn.

No wonder Flores couldn't find a head coach spot.

I think it goes deeper than that.

[BearsFanInMN]

I think this thread gets locked quickly. Regardless of who he is or how he is there’s an issue he proved. Daboll is a great hire and i think any GM should be able to get the guy they believe in.

But you’ll see a lot of stuff saying Flores was hard to work with and so on to spin the narrative. Sadly I don’t think he’s not going to get another position in the NFL but maybe he affects some change.

[Teddy KGB]

The thing I most am interested in is that 2 more coaches are supposedly joining him. He'll need it, because after some of Flores' antics in Miami, unless that was bullshit leaked by the owner, he is going to have to deal with the defense totally assassinating his character.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do, and this lawsuit is going to cost him his coaching career in the NFL. But you have to admit, the NFL, with all of it's supposed concentration on the hiring of minorities into leadership positions, has not done a great job. Flores is not without flaws, but if what Belichick is saying is true, that Flores' meeting with the Giants was a sham interview, that's going to be a huge PR problem for them.

Oh, agreed. They won't be able to make everything go away with character assassination. But they could knock down major parts of the case arguing that Flores is vindictive rather than the NFL being racist. That's why having other coaches join it is so crucial.

[wab]

Good for Flores.

[mmmc_35]

It's an interesting law suit. I and likely most nfl fans, always felt the Rooney Rule was a scam. Lip stick on a pig. We have seen numerous candidates deserving, or not, who got interviews that appeared to not have serious considerations.

The NFL does this a lot. The feign outrage, compassion, or popular political issues. In the end its generally just virtue signaling trash.

I can see why the Giants would select Daboll, or the Broncos Fox. None of that has to do with Flores ability or race. Flores was high on my list here in Chicago, but I could easily see why those teams went with their candidates.

However the NFL has this rule they self imposed. A rule they commonly cited, and hold up as virtue. When its clear its intent is not really adhered to. I hope he gets paid and the NFL gets egg on its face.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

Don't let the rich bastards grind you down, Coach Flores.

[The Marshall Plan]

How do you think a guy like Brian Flores feels when he sees Josh McCown, with no coaching experience to speak of, get a gig before him? There's 1 black HC in the NFL - 1. That's beyond shameful.

Exactly.

You know what 1 black HC in the NFL is also called besides shameful?

EVIDENCE.

Imagine if this was a department of a large corporation. 32 employees. 1 black person? HR better have some documentation to CYA for that.

Then he's got a text message PROVING that the Giants violated the Rooney Rule. Fucking proves it.

The league better be careful and not fight this too hard. They can't sit there and talk about civil rights issues out of one side of their mouth and then when a serious problem raises its head they try and bury it and get the lawsuit dismissed.

Flores needs to get paid and the Giants needs to be punished including terminating people that violated the Rooney Rule and look into if they can force ownership out.

[Richie]

The thing I most am interested in is that 2 more coaches are supposedly joining him. He'll need it, because after some of Flores' antics in Miami, unless that was bullshit leaked by the owner, he is going to have to deal with the defense totally assassinating his character.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do, and this lawsuit is going to cost him his coaching career in the NFL. But you have to admit, the NFL, with all of it's supposed concentration on the hiring of minorities into leadership positions, has not done a great job. Flores is not without flaws, but if what Belichick is saying is true, that Flores' meeting with the Giants was a sham interview, that's going to be a huge PR problem for them.

Let's say that there's really an issue of bias when it comes to hiring HC's. How would that be the NFL's fault? They even created a rule that forces FO's to interview a minority candidate. They cannot go out and literally force the hand of NFL FO's to hire black HC's. Forcing a minority interview for any team with a HC'ing vacancy is already getting more involved than you would think a league ever would.

As for NYG. They knew who they wanted from the get go. They got their guy, but they still had to interview a minority candidate because of a silly rule that forces them to do so. The creation of the rule is derived from good intentions, but yeah... it's going to create situations like this. You're really not helping a minority get hired that way.

[thunderspirit]

How do you think a guy like Brian Flores feels when he sees Josh McCown, with no coaching experience to speak of, get a gig before him? There's 1 black HC in the NFL - 1. That's beyond shameful.

The league better be careful and not fight this too hard. They can't sit there and talk about civil rights issues out of one side of their mouth and then when a serious problem raises its head they try and bury it and get the lawsuit dismissed.

Right.
But they won't.

You will never go broke betting on the NFL doubling down on stuff like this.

[The Marshall Plan]

There is a thread for this in the NFL General Discussion area.

[The Cooler King]

It is often suggested that because 70% of NFL players are people of colour (and nobody expresses concerns about that inequality) the number of minority coaches should be much higher, but this is a false dichotomy. How many NFL players go into coaching when they retire? .... The expectation should be that the ethnic make-up of NFL coaches and executives is broadly reflective, over the long term, of American society, which would approximate 22 white, 5 black and 5 other minorities for the 32 positions.

Even if we accept some merit to this line if reasoning, probably the number 1 pool of candidates is NCAA athletes who go into coaching. And the rate of black athletes is lower than NFL, but still about 50/50 I think.

Incidentally, NCAA has the same representation issue. So guys are getting excluded at multiple spots, but it's still an area the NFL could do more.