Most folks don’t realize that Watson led the league in passing the year AFTER Hopkins was traded to Arizona.southdakbearfan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 7:28 pmMy only disagreement, Watson never had any arm strength and his combine numbers show it. He just had Deandre Hopkins adjusting to his lobs much like Culpepper had moss.UOK wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 9:37 am Independent of whatever legal shit Watson is dealing with, there's enough anecdotal evidence to make a pretty confident guess about his character when it comes to women. And speaking for myself, the way you treat any women in your life, casually or personally, is immensely reflective of what type of human being you are, so personally I'm already dead set against the guy. He hasn't demonstrated remorse, performed any acts of attrition, or spoken up about the issues beyond claiming his innocence.
Not great.
That said, football-wise, this is the worst trade in NFL history -- for now (waiting to see what the Bears 2nd round pick next year will be).
Watson had taken a year off from football when the scandals broke, and during that time completely lost the zip on his throws and his mind slackened away from the game. The Browns had a knee-jerk reaction to send the Texans an absolute windfall of draft capital, scandal be damned, and ever since Watson concluded his suspension he has been demonstrably inept at the professional level.
His teammates allegedly are not fond of him, and you've got to think the coaches are on their last legs with Watson. He's going to get them fired at this rate.
Flacco coming in off the street and running the Stefanski offense seamlessly is proof enough that Watson is no longer a top 32 quarterback in this league. He's going to be a vastly overpaid backup once the Browns finally release him and eat the ultimate dead money hit, which feels like it'll come before midseason.
Let's review how the Texans have used these assets, courtesy of CBS Sports:
OH YEAH, let's not forget that Baker Mayfield has become a pro bowler in Tampa. LOL.
Deshaun Watson
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And he still had a noodle arm. Culpepper looked viable for a bit after moss was gone too.dplank wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 6:52 pmMost folks don’t realize that Watson led the league in passing the year AFTER Hopkins was traded to Arizona.southdakbearfan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 7:28 pm
My only disagreement, Watson never had any arm strength and his combine numbers show it. He just had Deandre Hopkins adjusting to his lobs much like Culpepper had moss.
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He has never had a strong arm. What’s left him is his legs, he looks like he’s my age out there nowsouthdakbearfan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 8:45 pmAnd he still had a noodle arm. Culpepper looked viable for a bit after moss was gone too.
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Funny how the top three QB's from the 2017 draft have ended up. Trubisky (#2) had his one playoff run before fading, Watson (#12) 2018-20 ProBowl averaging 350/500 4200 yds 28 TD 10 INT before the 2021 suspension, and Mahomes (#10).
Trubisky and Watson go to teams where QB's die, the same two teams that had the best RB's to ever play.
Funny.
San Francisco has always been my favorite booing city. I don't mean the people boo louder or longer, but there is a very special intimacy. Music, that's what it is to me. One time in Kezar Stadium they gave me a standing boo.
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They didn't score points even then though. Especially in 1st Halves.dplank wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 6:52 pmMost folks don’t realize that Watson led the league in passing the year AFTER Hopkins was traded to Arizona.southdakbearfan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 7:28 pm
My only disagreement, Watson never had any arm strength and his combine numbers show it. He just had Deandre Hopkins adjusting to his lobs much like Culpepper had moss.
He was just never Elite. It's comical to think that was actually a discussion
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....and here we go targeting over a 6 year old argument that you blatantly lost but can't admit....it's so transparent. Exactly what everyone wants to see on the board I'm sure.
That year Deshaun Watson led the league in passing with over 4,800 yards, and also went 33/7 TD/INT with a QBR of over 112.4, and was selected to his 3rd consecutive pro bowl - those are Aaron Rodgers type numbers, all without Hopkins. He was absolutely elite that year. If those numbers are not elite, nothing is.
Proof: Aaron Rodgers is in his 20th season and is one of the all time greats. Not once in his 20 year career has he passed for 4,800 yards. Only twice in 20 years did he have a QBR above Watson's 112.4 (also had 2 seasons just barely below also at 112 and 111). His 33/7 stat line is absolutely Rodgers level also. So that year that Watson had matches a top end Aaron Rodgers type year. All, of course, after you yelled and screamed that he would fall apart when Hopkins left and were dead wrong, but have never once admitted it. It's comical that you can't admit it when you were blatantly proven wrong. I remember it, you're exact words were "He will fall off a cliff without Hopkins", and instead he had an elite year. The fact that Watson has fallen to turd status since not withstanding, he absolutely has and I've already admitted several times that I was wrong in wanting to trade for him, because that's what grown ass men do when they are wrong. But that year? Absolutely elite.
Can't wait to see the: "You think Watson is as good as Rodgers?" garbage that is sure to follow. I'm sure you'll just let it go here instead of pressing on, right? LMAO Byeeeeee!
That year Deshaun Watson led the league in passing with over 4,800 yards, and also went 33/7 TD/INT with a QBR of over 112.4, and was selected to his 3rd consecutive pro bowl - those are Aaron Rodgers type numbers, all without Hopkins. He was absolutely elite that year. If those numbers are not elite, nothing is.
Proof: Aaron Rodgers is in his 20th season and is one of the all time greats. Not once in his 20 year career has he passed for 4,800 yards. Only twice in 20 years did he have a QBR above Watson's 112.4 (also had 2 seasons just barely below also at 112 and 111). His 33/7 stat line is absolutely Rodgers level also. So that year that Watson had matches a top end Aaron Rodgers type year. All, of course, after you yelled and screamed that he would fall apart when Hopkins left and were dead wrong, but have never once admitted it. It's comical that you can't admit it when you were blatantly proven wrong. I remember it, you're exact words were "He will fall off a cliff without Hopkins", and instead he had an elite year. The fact that Watson has fallen to turd status since not withstanding, he absolutely has and I've already admitted several times that I was wrong in wanting to trade for him, because that's what grown ass men do when they are wrong. But that year? Absolutely elite.
Can't wait to see the: "You think Watson is as good as Rodgers?" garbage that is sure to follow. I'm sure you'll just let it go here instead of pressing on, right? LMAO Byeeeeee!
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So Watson is Elite?!?!?
Wowzers. If anything I was actually too nice to Watson.
But glad QBR is back when it supports an argument! Cherry pick it!!! When it didn't support Fields v. Wilson? Magically left off - WEIRD!
Watson's best year - cherry picked as per usual mind you - they didn't actually score very many points. Even less when you factor in game factors and opponents (they played a VERY easy scoring schedule THAT cherry picked year)
His best year passing yards is less than Jameson Winston's best year Passing Yards only, Sam Howell nearly threw for 4000 last year and was ummmmm Garbage - Almost like the Yards Passing (even when Cherry Picked) needs SOME context
Again - in the year *not years mind you - the ONE cherry picked year- that you want us to focus on Watson (certainly not his career to make him "ELITE" - that would be crazy!). Here are his points:
ELITE points forthcoming!!! (obviously overlook the 4-12 record- no Question on that - QB wins only matter when its Fields in Pitt doncha know!)
3rd in Division in points (Ryan Tannenhill offense put up 100+ more points (491 to 384) and ummm he aint Elite either (despite also LITERALLY also putting up 33 TD to 7 INT)
Tied for 18th in points (NOT EVERY TOP HALF IN THE LEAGUE) - Less than 4-12 Falcons team that year (less than MULTIPLE .500 or less teams - just on Points).
They actually had less Points than the BEARS led by Mitch Freaking T. until WEEK 17!! (Texans put up 41 Points in Week 17 to rise all the way to 18th overall! and overtake that Monster Offense we know as Mitch T's Bears!!!)
Also 12th in ESPN QBR that year - Probably why that wasn't mentioned and we had to hear about 1973 QBR - Weird again!
Feels like the 12th Best QBR (CHERRY PICKED !!!!) isn't Elite. And that's his best case!!!!!
2nd to Last in Sacks ? Would that matter? (Again IN the cherry picked season). No, of course not - just QBR (sometimes! Not always! Just when it supports an argument I guess!) and Yards Everyone knows yards especially against soft Defenses in the 2nd Half when you are down matter more than points!!!!!!
So yeah ELITE!
And you just also have to ignore the Rest of his Career too to hold your hat on the above
That's an argument he just doesn't think he was wrong about - but Blantantly RIGHT!
Wowzers. If anything I was actually too nice to Watson.
But glad QBR is back when it supports an argument! Cherry pick it!!! When it didn't support Fields v. Wilson? Magically left off - WEIRD!
Watson's best year - cherry picked as per usual mind you - they didn't actually score very many points. Even less when you factor in game factors and opponents (they played a VERY easy scoring schedule THAT cherry picked year)
His best year passing yards is less than Jameson Winston's best year Passing Yards only, Sam Howell nearly threw for 4000 last year and was ummmmm Garbage - Almost like the Yards Passing (even when Cherry Picked) needs SOME context
Again - in the year *not years mind you - the ONE cherry picked year- that you want us to focus on Watson (certainly not his career to make him "ELITE" - that would be crazy!). Here are his points:
ELITE points forthcoming!!! (obviously overlook the 4-12 record- no Question on that - QB wins only matter when its Fields in Pitt doncha know!)
3rd in Division in points (Ryan Tannenhill offense put up 100+ more points (491 to 384) and ummm he aint Elite either (despite also LITERALLY also putting up 33 TD to 7 INT)
Tied for 18th in points (NOT EVERY TOP HALF IN THE LEAGUE) - Less than 4-12 Falcons team that year (less than MULTIPLE .500 or less teams - just on Points).
They actually had less Points than the BEARS led by Mitch Freaking T. until WEEK 17!! (Texans put up 41 Points in Week 17 to rise all the way to 18th overall! and overtake that Monster Offense we know as Mitch T's Bears!!!)
Also 12th in ESPN QBR that year - Probably why that wasn't mentioned and we had to hear about 1973 QBR - Weird again!
Feels like the 12th Best QBR (CHERRY PICKED !!!!) isn't Elite. And that's his best case!!!!!
2nd to Last in Sacks ? Would that matter? (Again IN the cherry picked season). No, of course not - just QBR (sometimes! Not always! Just when it supports an argument I guess!) and Yards Everyone knows yards especially against soft Defenses in the 2nd Half when you are down matter more than points!!!!!!
So yeah ELITE!
And you just also have to ignore the Rest of his Career too to hold your hat on the above
That's an argument he just doesn't think he was wrong about - but Blantantly RIGHT!
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This is a supposed Victory Lap - in the Year of Our Lord 2024 - For - Checks notes D. Watson is an Elite QB.dplank wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2024 7:44 am ....and here we go targeting over a 6 year old argument that you blatantly lost but can't admit....it's so transparent. Exactly what everyone wants to see on the board I'm sure.
That year Deshaun Watson led the league in passing with over 4,800 yards, and also went 33/7 TD/INT with a QBR of over 112.4, and was selected to his 3rd consecutive pro bowl - those are Aaron Rodgers type numbers, all without Hopkins. He was absolutely elite that year. If those numbers are not elite, nothing is.
Proof: Aaron Rodgers is in his 20th season and is one of the all time greats. Not once in his 20 year career has he passed for 4,800 yards. Only twice in 20 years did he have a QBR above Watson's 112.4 (also had 2 seasons just barely below also at 112 and 111). His 33/7 stat line is absolutely Rodgers level also. So that year that Watson had matches a top end Aaron Rodgers type year. All, of course, after you yelled and screamed that he would fall apart when Hopkins left and were dead wrong, but have never once admitted it. It's comical that you can't admit it when you were blatantly proven wrong. I remember it, you're exact words were "He will fall off a cliff without Hopkins", and instead he had an elite year. The fact that Watson has fallen to turd status since not withstanding, he absolutely has and I've already admitted several times that I was wrong in wanting to trade for him, because that's what grown ass men do when they are wrong. But that year? Absolutely elite.
Can't wait to see the: "You think Watson is as good as Rodgers?" garbage that is sure to follow. I'm sure you'll just let it go here instead of pressing on, right? LMAO Byeeeeee!
I mean - just wow.
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Seriously @RichH55, 3 consecutive posts in reply to a single one made over 3 days ago about an old argument that really isn't remotely relevant to the player's situation today?
How about we all agree that during his 4 years in Houston Watson was very good?
He made 3 Pro Bowls.
He averaged 269 yards passing a game at 8.3 ypa. He completed 67.8% of his passes. He threw 104 TDs against 36 INTs. His passer rating was 104.5 with a per season low of 98.0 and a high of 112.4.
Since his legal issues he's been shadow of his former self, playing in just 12 games in Cleveland prior to this season, and his legal issues are still lingering on which is how this thread got started.
Let's leave any nitpicking about the term "elite" and move on.
How about we all agree that during his 4 years in Houston Watson was very good?
He made 3 Pro Bowls.
He averaged 269 yards passing a game at 8.3 ypa. He completed 67.8% of his passes. He threw 104 TDs against 36 INTs. His passer rating was 104.5 with a per season low of 98.0 and a high of 112.4.
Since his legal issues he's been shadow of his former self, playing in just 12 games in Cleveland prior to this season, and his legal issues are still lingering on which is how this thread got started.
Let's leave any nitpicking about the term "elite" and move on.
Arise Sir Walter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXdXRP6Hi-U
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Royal,
The Houston stuff is way more complex - You are ignoring stuff like Sacks and Ints for starters - Neither of which he was particularly good
He was better in Houston than Cleveland - which ummmm - isn't saying much at all - He was just simply and absolutely Never Elite as a QB (Only as a Sex Offender)
Also - Read the thread - I only noted that he was never Elite (best season 12th ESPN QBR? and thats Best) - I responded to a thread that both called me out and somehow (foolishly) still contends that Watson is an Elite QB.
That is what I responded to (with facts and figures and truth - what a concept!) - That isn't on me Sir.
The Houston stuff is way more complex - You are ignoring stuff like Sacks and Ints for starters - Neither of which he was particularly good
He was better in Houston than Cleveland - which ummmm - isn't saying much at all - He was just simply and absolutely Never Elite as a QB (Only as a Sex Offender)
Also - Read the thread - I only noted that he was never Elite (best season 12th ESPN QBR? and thats Best) - I responded to a thread that both called me out and somehow (foolishly) still contends that Watson is an Elite QB.
That is what I responded to (with facts and figures and truth - what a concept!) - That isn't on me Sir.
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Als@RichH55HisRoyalSweetness wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 9:52 pm Seriously @RichH55, 3 consecutive posts in reply to a single one made over 3 days ago about an old argument that really isn't remotely relevant to the player's situation today?
How about we all agree that during his 4 years in Houston Watson was very good?
He made 3 Pro Bowls.
He averaged 269 yards passing a game at 8.3 ypa. He completed 67.8% of his passes. He threw 104 TDs against 36 INTs. His passer rating was 104.5 with a per season low of 98.0 and a high of 112.4.
Since his legal issues he's been shadow of his former self, playing in just 12 games in Cleveland prior to this season, and his legal issues are still lingering on which is how this thread got started.
Let's leave any nitpicking about the term "elite" and move on.
@RichH55
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You might as well argue with that brick wall behind you, HRS.
KFFL refugee.
dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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Does @RichH55 consider Caleb elite.
Just so we can have a benchmark
Just so we can have a benchmark
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You brought this up on me with Fields as wellthunderspirit wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:39 amYou might as well argue with that brick wall behind you, HRS.
Where I was - you know - Right? Right when it wasn't particularly popular to be right either.
Jury isn't fully in on Fields mind you - but the deliberations are really far down the line too. And Watson looks like he's close to done (Sadly the wrong jury is in on him)
For the whole he's a Brick Wall who never changes his mind thing to be more plausible - Wouldn't I need to be making arguments that are wrong and as more evidence comes out they look more wrong? And then I'm ignoring this new evidence ?
I'm not 100% right - and lord knows I liked both Andre Dillard AND Matt Ware coming out of the draft (etc etc). But it's weird to be Correct on something and then like - oh he wouldn't change his opinion?
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Ha - The Jury is still very, very much out there. I think he can be and I liked the pick (so if he's a bust or even merely only OK/slightly good - then that goes on my incorrect ledgerDitka’s dictaphone wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:56 am Does @RichH55 consider Caleb elite.
Just so we can have a benchmark
One thing I can say - He is certainly not Henry Burris:)
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Since it seems like your goal every time you log on to BFO is to replay your presumptive victory lap — particularly from discussions already in the past — it shouldn't be a grand mystery why you find yourself on multiple ignore lists.RichH55 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:56 amYou brought this up on me with Fields as wellthunderspirit wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:39 am
You might as well argue with that brick wall behind you, HRS.
Where I was - you know - Right? Right when it wasn't particularly popular to be right either.
Jury isn't fully in on Fields mind you - but the deliberations are really far down the line too. And Watson looks like he's close to done (Sadly the wrong jury is in on him)
For the whole he's a Brick Wall who never changes his mind thing to be more plausible - Wouldn't I need to be making arguments that are wrong and as more evidence comes out they look more wrong? And then I'm ignoring this new evidence ?
I'm not 100% right - and lord knows I liked both Andre Dillard AND Matt Ware coming out of the draft (etc etc). But it's weird to be Correct on something and then like - oh he wouldn't change his opinion?
KFFL refugee.
dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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People still questioning that though - Apparently all the analysis ahead of time and during the Bad Play - was just me being mean not actual knowledge or basic scouting. It's mostly Tonyan's fault for dropping that one pass!!!!thunderspirit wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 5:15 pmSince it seems like your goal every time you log on to BFO is to replay your presumptive victory lap — particularly from discussions already in the past — it shouldn't be a grand mystery why you find yourself on multiple ignore lists.RichH55 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:56 am
You brought this up on me with Fields as well
Where I was - you know - Right? Right when it wasn't particularly popular to be right either.
Jury isn't fully in on Fields mind you - but the deliberations are really far down the line too. And Watson looks like he's close to done (Sadly the wrong jury is in on him)
For the whole he's a Brick Wall who never changes his mind thing to be more plausible - Wouldn't I need to be making arguments that are wrong and as more evidence comes out they look more wrong? And then I'm ignoring this new evidence ?
I'm not 100% right - and lord knows I liked both Andre Dillard AND Matt Ware coming out of the draft (etc etc). But it's weird to be Correct on something and then like - oh he wouldn't change his opinion?
Two other things man -
1) I got put on block lists for saying things like there is no 20 Year Conspiracy by the league for the Packers, that AQM basically cost us a 3rd round pick, and that "Sign a Good OL in FA" wasn't really a strategy more of a hope (two of the posters don't really come around here anymore)
2). I really hope I'm generally only taking victory laps on things from the Past - When the jury is in, or mostly in. I'm both NOT a precog and it's annoying when people say "Take the L" when the issue isn't even close to decided. You should take the L once you actually should....
Do you have an example of me being - you know WRONG - about something and then refusing to acknowledge it? That's more the Brick Wall - turn those machines back on Re: Fields or Mariotta or whomever "from the past"
Maybe you mean I'm crass? vain-glorius? not reading the room?
But Brick Wall isn't accurate in this context
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I will say this - after reading the below in " "
It's crazy that they negotiated Watson's contract the same way they negotiated Vic Mackey's Plea Deal
"If the league determines that the new civil lawsuit is not “substantially similar” to the previous allegations, Watson could face further discipline from the league for violating the personal conduct policy.
Notably, violating the personal conduct policy could also void the guaranteed money in Watson’s contract. In that scenario, the Browns would have the option to release Watson before the 2025 season with relatively minor salary cap penalties."
It's crazy that they negotiated Watson's contract the same way they negotiated Vic Mackey's Plea Deal
"If the league determines that the new civil lawsuit is not “substantially similar” to the previous allegations, Watson could face further discipline from the league for violating the personal conduct policy.
Notably, violating the personal conduct policy could also void the guaranteed money in Watson’s contract. In that scenario, the Browns would have the option to release Watson before the 2025 season with relatively minor salary cap penalties."
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The latest lawsuit relates to a date he apparently went on in 2020, long before he joined the Browns but who knows how his contract is worded? The team may have protected themselves in case any further incidents came to light regardless if it was before or after they signed him. Why they gave him a fully guaranteed deal is beyond me anyway. It's interesting that no other team has followed suit even with far more proven QBs, although some have come close.RichH55 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 10:32 pm I will say this - after reading the below in " "
It's crazy that they negotiated Watson's contract the same way they negotiated Vic Mackey's Plea Deal
"If the league determines that the new civil lawsuit is not “substantially similar” to the previous allegations, Watson could face further discipline from the league for violating the personal conduct policy.
Notably, violating the personal conduct policy could also void the guaranteed money in Watson’s contract. In that scenario, the Browns would have the option to release Watson before the 2025 season with relatively minor salary cap penalties."
Arise Sir Walter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXdXRP6Hi-U
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Do they get The Shield over by you?HisRoyalSweetness wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:36 amThe latest lawsuit relates to a date he apparently went on in 2020, long before he joined the Browns but who knows how his contract is worded? The team may have protected themselves in case any further incidents came to light regardless if it was before or after they signed him. Why they gave him a fully guaranteed deal is beyond me anyway. It's interesting that no other team has followed suit even with far more proven QBs, although some have come close.RichH55 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 10:32 pm I will say this - after reading the below in " "
It's crazy that they negotiated Watson's contract the same way they negotiated Vic Mackey's Plea Deal
"If the league determines that the new civil lawsuit is not “substantially similar” to the previous allegations, Watson could face further discipline from the league for violating the personal conduct policy.
Notably, violating the personal conduct policy could also void the guaranteed money in Watson’s contract. In that scenario, the Browns would have the option to release Watson before the 2025 season with relatively minor salary cap penalties."
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But yeah - apparently they wrote it up in a way where it was - OK. You may or may not (Definitely MAY) have committed 30+ Sexual Assaults - but this is the NFL and the KC Chiefs only have dibs on Pieces of Shit like this who can Kick - So it's BROWNS time baby!!!
But aside from the 30+ we know about - You got to tell us if there are more heinous crimes you committed - We will forgive those too - but we'd like to know - OR we can void the Guarantees (Read: If you actually aren't very good - Let alone "ELITE"!!!!! If we win games and score points (not happening in Houston) we still won't care)
And even then he was like - Some of my crimes are for me alone jerks!
But aside from the 30+ we know about - You got to tell us if there are more heinous crimes you committed - We will forgive those too - but we'd like to know - OR we can void the Guarantees (Read: If you actually aren't very good - Let alone "ELITE"!!!!! If we win games and score points (not happening in Houston) we still won't care)
And even then he was like - Some of my crimes are for me alone jerks!
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They still owe him a SHIT ton of money too.
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Ooof.
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According to Sportrac they have -43 million cap space for 2025, they currently have 43 million in cap space left this year. If they carry over their excess, they'll have 0 money for next year.