Update: DT Larry Ogunjobi fails physical, contract voided

[The Marshall Plan]

So you want to count on a rookie T, no higher than a 2nd rounder no less, as the main part of the plan to protect Fields? Isn’t that what Pace did last year? I just don’t think that’s good enough.

Tackles unlike Guards do not grow on Trees

I think that's the point.

Pay somebody who is established to do the job.

[RichH55]

Tackles unlike Guards do not grow on Trees

I think that's the point.

Pay somebody who is established to do the job.

Love the plan Sign Good Tackle!

Not listed: Good Tackles.

[The Marshall Plan]

I think that's the point.

Pay somebody who is established to do the job.

Love the plan Sign Good Tackle!

Not listed: Good Tackles.

That actually wasn't true.

[RichH55]

Love the plan Sign Good Tackle!

Not listed: Good Tackles.

That actually wasn't true.

Too specific? Geez

[dplank]

Plenty of good tackles, we just haven’t done Jack shit. I haven’t been focused on just tackles either, C was my target but just want talent ANYWHERE on the OL.

Moses would have been perfect for Poles current plan of not spending too much and developing youth behind him.

Collins would be a big upgrade
Armstead would be a massive upgrade
Jensen would have changed our OL (aware he was not an option, but was when I was preaching this originally)
Tomlinson
Scherff
Bryan Allen / Karras
Alex Cappa
Corbitt

We lost a G/C and replaced with a lesser G/C. There is no way to spin that as an accomplishment. A few guys still out there, he needs to make a move. We don’t have 50 draft picks folks, we have 3 that really can be counted on.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

We don’t have 50 draft picks folks, we have 3 that really can be counted on.

And if we're counting on those 3 then we really haven't been paying attention to the way drafts always go. You hope Day 1 and Day 2 picks will be significant contributors but it's far from a given no matter who the GM is making the decisions. If Poles nails all three then that will be a bonus.

[dplank]

We don’t have 50 draft picks folks, we have 3 that really can be counted on.

And if we're counting on those 3 then we really haven't been paying attention to the way drafts always go. You hope Day 1 and Day 2 picks will be significant contributors but it's far from a given no matter who the GM is making the decisions. If Poles nails all three then that will be a bonus.

Yep. I’ll be shocked if he doesn’t sign another OL here soon, he has to IMO. He cannot risk going in to 2022 with an OL that’s worse than last years OL - which is where things stand currently.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

What were Mooney and Herbert?

5th/6th rounders?

It’s not a given that all your starters have to come in the first 2 rounds.

[dplank]

What were Mooney and Herbert?

5th/6th rounders?

It’s not a given that all your starters have to come in the first 2 rounds.

True, you may hit on a late pick but that likely offsets a 2/3rd rd pick that misses. It’s not a reasonable expectation or plan to count on more than 1-2, MAYBE 3 starters from your draft.

We need starters at: RG, CB2, S, WR1, MLB, and NB. And if you don’t project Borom as a starter, OT. If we attack WR/CB with our 2nds, and maybe RG with our 3rd, you’d need all 3 of those to hit as Day 1 starters just to field a team - that’s a bad plan. Our critical 3T is JAG, so you’d like to spend a solid pick there but we can’t. And as of right now, even spending a 3rd on OL, we will field an OL worse than last years OL, which should be viewed as unacceptable to Bears fans who like Fields.

We must make another signing up front AND draft a guy. Moses was the right guy at the right price IMO, now we need to pay big for Armstead IMHO or some other solid piece up front if there’s any left.

[RichH55]

Plenty of good tackles, we just haven’t done Jack shit. I haven’t been focused on just tackles either, C was my target but just want talent ANYWHERE on the OL.

Moses would have been perfect for Poles current plan of not spending too much and developing youth behind him.

Collins would be a big upgrade
Armstead would be a massive upgrade
Jensen would have changed our OL (aware he was not an option, but was when I was preaching this originally)
Tomlinson
Scherff
Bryan Allen / Karras
Alex Cappa
Corbitt

We lost a G/C and replaced with a lesser G/C. There is no way to spin that as an accomplishment. A few guys still out there, he needs to make a move. We don’t have 50 draft picks folks, we have 3 that really can be counted on.

Disagree on Collins being a "Big Upgrade" - and he's literally like Tackle 3 of 3? Moses is a fair enough point (though I suspect hes a guy fans like more when hes not on your team) - but again - far enough on Moses

Armstead - is the potential outlier yes - There is a BIG risk/reward there though - if he's awesome for 7 games, and doesn't play the rest - Is that helpful?

But yes - Armstead is the one crazy option

Paying Guards premium money is generally not a super wise idea

But the whole ANYWHERE on the OL - ignores what positions are worth - its just being Freddo.

It also holds Poles to a 1 year cycle (and not even with the Draft)

[RichH55]

What were Mooney and Herbert?

5th/6th rounders?

It’s not a given that all your starters have to come in the first 2 rounds.

True, you may hit on a late pick but that likely offsets a 2/3rd rd pick that misses. It’s not a reasonable expectation or plan to count on more than 1-2, MAYBE 3 starters from your draft.

We need starters at: RG, CB2, S, WR1, MLB, and NB. And if you don’t project Borom as a starter, OT. If we attack WR/CB with our 2nds, and maybe RG with our 3rd, you’d need all 3 of those to hit as Day 1 starters just to field a team - that’s a bad plan. Our critical 3T is JAG, so you’d like to spend a solid pick there but we can’t. And as of right now, even spending a 3rd on OL, we will field an OL worse than last years OL, which should be viewed as unacceptable to Bears fans who like Fields.

We must make another signing up front AND draft a guy. Moses was the right guy at the right price IMO, now we need to pay big for Armstead IMHO or some other solid piece up front if there’s any left.

"And as of right now, even spending a 3rd on OL, we will field an OL worse than last years OL,"

I disagree here

[Yogi da Bear]

It's probably the Conspiracy Theorist in me, but I can't help but feel that this whole thing with Ogun was all planned by Proles.

First, you have our GM come out and explicitly he wasn't going to participate in the first wave of signings. He also said that he was looking to improve our Offensive Line. What does he do? He immediately come out and overpays for an injured DT in the initial wave of signings. Certainly and overpay and not even an offensive lineman at that. He then rescinds the contract because he couldn't pass the physical.

I've since looked more carefully into Ogun's injury and the timing of it. Ogun was injured on 1/15 and had Lisfranc surgery a "few days after that," so you're looking right around the 20th that he actually had his surgery. Looking it up, it normally takes three to six months to recovery from such a surgery. He failed his physical with the Bears right around March 18th. That's not even two months after having a surgery whose MINIMAL recovery time is three months. How could our GM reasonably expect him to pass an NFL physical only two thirds of the way through the minimal recovery time for a surgery? I don't think he did.

Why would Proles do this? First, it takes Ogun off the market for that initial wave of signings. Second, it throws up a red flag for the rest of the league as to Ogun's condition. Third, it shows the player himself our deep interest in him. Notice that all the good things the Bears said about him as they were rescinding the contract.

If it's true, it's kind of a shitty thing to do, but I for one would not be surprised to see the Bears approach Ogun again with a much lighter contract further down the road in his recovery. To me, it just doesn't make sense that the Bears would have actually expected him to pass an NFL Physical less than two thirds of the way through the minimal recovery time for a surgery. They're either incredibly naive or extremely devious.

[thunderspirit]

It's probably the Conspiracy Theorist in me, but I can't help but feel that this whole thing with Ogun was all planned by Proles.

First, you have our GM come out and explicitly he wasn't going to participate in the first wave of signings. He also said that he was looking to improve our Offensive Line. What does he do? He immediately come out and overpays for an injured DT in the initial wave of signings. Certainly and overpay and not even an offensive lineman at that. He then rescinds the contract because he couldn't pass the physical.

I've since looked more carefully into Ogun's injury and the timing of it. Ogun was injured on 1/15 and had Lisfranc surgery a "few days after that," so you're looking right around the 20th that he actually had his surgery. Looking it up, it normally takes three to six months to recovery from such a surgery. He failed his physical with the Bears right around March 18th. That's not even two months after having a surgery whose MINIMAL recovery time is three months. How could our GM reasonably expect him to pass an NFL physical only two thirds of the way through the minimal recovery time for a surgery? I don't think he did.

Why would Proles do this? First, it takes Ogun off the market for that initial wave of signings. Second, it throws up a red flag for the rest of the league as to Ogun's condition. Third, it shows the player himself our deep interest in him. Notice that all the good things the Bears said about him as they were rescinding the contract.

If it's true, it's kind of a shitty thing to do, but I for one would not be surprised to see the Bears approach Ogun again with a much lighter contract further down the road in his recovery. To me, it just doesn't make sense that the Bears would have actually expected him to pass an NFL Physical less than two thirds of the way through the minimal recovery time for a surgery. They're either incredibly naive or extremely devious.

It doesn't need to be one or the other of those. It could be that the Bears' doctors didn't feel the surgery was healing right. It could be that rehab hasn't gone as well as hoped. It could be entirely unrelated to the foot, for that matter.

Assuming they're either stupid or sinister is entirely your right, I guess. I just think there are a lot more variables than you lay out.

[dplank]

True, you may hit on a late pick but that likely offsets a 2/3rd rd pick that misses. It’s not a reasonable expectation or plan to count on more than 1-2, MAYBE 3 starters from your draft.

We need starters at: RG, CB2, S, WR1, MLB, and NB. And if you don’t project Borom as a starter, OT. If we attack WR/CB with our 2nds, and maybe RG with our 3rd, you’d need all 3 of those to hit as Day 1 starters just to field a team - that’s a bad plan. Our critical 3T is JAG, so you’d like to spend a solid pick there but we can’t. And as of right now, even spending a 3rd on OL, we will field an OL worse than last years OL, which should be viewed as unacceptable to Bears fans who like Fields.

We must make another signing up front AND draft a guy. Moses was the right guy at the right price IMO, now we need to pay big for Armstead IMHO or some other solid piece up front if there’s any left.

"And as of right now, even spending a 3rd on OL, we will field an OL worse than last years OL,"

I disagree here

Huh? This is not a credible statement.

We added Lucas Patrick at 2yr/8M (should give some pause to projecting greatness from him). Either G or C, he can't play both.

We lost James Daniels (~9m/yr value 24y/o RG - projecting Patrick or a 3rd round rookie as a net improvement here is simply wrong even if you think Daniels was overvalued by league GM's)
We lost Jason Peters
We lost Germain Ifedi and Alex Bars (not shedding a tear over either one)

That's 2 starters and 2 backups gone, with one borderline starter/backup in their place. And you think a single 3rd round pick changes this to a better OL than last year? GMAB. Absolute poppycock. Poles needs one more starter in FA to achieve fielding a better line than last year. And yes - ANYWHERE on the OL. Why?

Because Patrick can play either G/C, and Borom shouldn't be relied on as a starting T and should be viewed as a swing T or MAYBE get kicked inside. So with these moving pieces, we just need to add one starting caliber OL anywhere on this line and shuffle accordingly. If we land a G, Patrick plays C and we draft a T to compete with Borom. If we land a T, Borom is either swing T or competes with a drafted G (this is what I wanted us to do with Moses, let Borom compete with Moses and draft a G either 2nd or 3rd rd.)

[G08]

What OL player would you have liked him to take his “big swing” on?

You want him to go after top players, but it’s almost as if you weren’t listening when he literally said he wasn’t going to do much of that - if any.

I was listening, my mistake was believing him. He did not do what he said, not sure why this is so confusing man.

I’d have liked a big swing at OL or WR, not DT.

You understand the three technique is the engine that drives this defense, right? If anything, that is where the $$$ should go.

[thunderspirit]

I was listening, my mistake was believing him. He did not do what he said, not sure why this is so confusing man.

I’d have liked a big swing at OL or WR, not DT.

You understand the three technique is the engine that drives this defense, right? If anything, that is where the $$$ should go.

Yeah, I'm of the mind that Ogunjobi was intended to replace the Eddie Goldman money. The Bears told you their priorities on defense with that move.

If they reallocate the Mack money to defense rather than offense, that's worth criticizing, in my view.

[dplank]

Uh, yea. I follow Bears football so obviously I understand the importance of 3T. Did you really think I didn't? I bet every single member of this board knows that and I like to treat folks with respect and assume they aren't morons man.

My question for you guys is....what happened to "shifting our cap spend to the offense" and "building around Justin Fields"? We spent our biggest cap expense on defense (granted, we got a refund, but point remains) instead of weapons or protection for Fields. Explain your pivot?

[wab]

Uh, yea. I follow Bears football so obviously I understand the importance of 3T. Did you really think I didn't? I bet every single member of this board knows that and I like to treat folks with respect and assume they aren't morons man.

My question for you guys is....what happened to "shifting our cap spend to the offense" and "building around Justin Fields"? We spent our biggest cap expense on defense (granted, we got a refund, but point remains) instead of weapons or protection for Fields. Explain your pivot?

There really is no nuance with you huh?

You assume this was all going to be accomplished in this offseason? Or the first 120 hours of this offseason?

This first phase has been about shedding contracts and getting younger. I feel like you wouldn’t have been happy unless they signed 4 starting offensive lineman and 3 wide receivers.

[dplank]

Is it me who lacks nuance or you who project that? I haven’t even gotten to my full point yet because honestly I thought it would be too nuanced without a proper lead up.

My issue with this offseason is around the simple fact that we haven’t done anything to improve around Fields yet. As of right now, personnel wise, Fields is stepping into a worse situation. We’ve lost two OL starters (3 if you count Ifedi) and replaced with just 1 at a much lesser value. We’ve lost WR1 WR3 WR4 and replaced them with WR3 WR4. We lost TE2 and replaced with no one yet.

And so my problem is putting Fields out there in a critical Year 2 of his development without helping him at all. And seemingly being willing to roll the dice on multiple rookies to step in and start. I know this is a long game, but Fields development trumps everything and we aren’t helping him nearly enough.

I’ve been clear about what I want - 1 more starting caliber OL, that’s it. Don’t project unreasonable expectations on me pls

[wab]

Again. The season is 120 hours old.

[dplank]

Again. The season is 120 hours old.

Meaningless, the proper question is who’s left?

[wab]

Again. The season is 120 hours old.

Meaningless, the proper question is who’s left?

Like, a lot of players. Plus the draft, plus UDFA, plus post draft cuts…

[dplank]

Plenty of poor options, sure. There’s maybe 2/3 guys that would represent an upgrade to Daniels / Peters. And it would be a bad move to count on a rd2 rookie to be an upgrade also. Barring a big move soon, this is where we are heading, no?

If he makes this move, it’ll make his entire off season IMO. But he’s down to just a few options at this point so he’s gotta go soon.

[HurricaneBear]

Who says they are trying to "upgrade" at all? Seems to me like they are more concerned about developing a young, hungry roster of guys willing to buy in and to evaluate while installing the culture Poles and Eberflus want. Poles inherited a team with a terrible offensive line, a bad group of pass catchers, and an over paid, old defense. This clearly looks like a tear it all down and build back up in his image type of season for Poles. As much as love JF, I wouldnt be surprised if we are drafting a QB next season unless JF really progresses(I think he will). But lets be honest, his season was terrible. We can spin it all we want, and I do it myself, but statistically he was terrible. It's a fact. Poles might not be on board the JF train at all and not caring if this season is critical to JF. Poles cares about whatever is critical to his long term goals.

Sure seems like Poles approach to the Bears ownership was "Pace was an idiot and every move he made needs to be fixed if you ever want to be a contender." I sure am not losing sleep over Poles taking a different approach than Pace's try to sign a bunch of bandaids every FA period approach. Not sweating we didn't get the load of overpriced second tier WR's that were there or the OL that really weren't worth what they got paid either. Alot of those teams are going to be regretting those contracts pretty soon.

[dplank]

I agree, that’s what it looks like to me too. I’m ok with it but why spend big $$ on a DT if that’s the case? You start rebuilding around Fields, like he said he would. That means shoring up your OL before shoring up your DL.

I didn’t really want Armstead at a high cost, but now I do as it’s one of the last moves left that would shore up the OL. Tretter would be another, shift Patrick to RG and draft a T to compete with Borom.

It’s all about Fields Year 2 for me. He needs to take a leap forward.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Who says they are trying to "upgrade" at all? Seems to me like they are more concerned about developing a young, hungry roster of guys willing to buy in and to evaluate while installing the culture Poles and Eberflus want. Poles inherited a team with a terrible offensive line, a bad group of pass catchers, and an over paid, old defense. This clearly looks like a tear it all down and build back up in his image type of season for Poles.

Agreed

[HurricaneBear]

I agree, that’s what it looks like to me too. I’m ok with it but why spend big $$ on a DT if that’s the case? You start rebuilding around Fields, like he said he would. That means shoring up your OL before shoring up your DL.

I didn’t really want Armstead at a high cost, but now I do as it’s one of the last moves left that would shore up the OL. Tretter would be another, shift Patrick to RG and draft a T to compete with Borom.

It’s all about Fields Year 2 for me. He needs to take a leap forward.

I'd guess alot of it is due to what Poles defensive minded head coach was asking for.

It's all about Fields Year 2 for me also. He needs to take a leap forward, and I believe he will. This is one of those scrappy, young 5-7 win teams that comes on late in the season and makes noise the following year.

My point is I don't think Poles cares about Fields Year 2 all that much. I think he cares about the Poles Bears year 1. He was quiet evasive at first not saying Fields but instead building around the QB position in general. Very telling for me. I think Poles is quiet clearly evaluating if he wants Fields as his starter or not in 2023.

[Yogi da Bear]

I agree, that’s what it looks like to me too. I’m ok with it but why spend big $$ on a DT if that’s the case?

I thought I answered that question for you DP--he was being diabolically clever.

[RichH55]

"And as of right now, even spending a 3rd on OL, we will field an OL worse than last years OL,"

I disagree here

Huh? This is not a credible statement.

We added Lucas Patrick at 2yr/8M (should give some pause to projecting greatness from him). Either G or C, he can't play both.

We lost James Daniels (~9m/yr value 24y/o RG - projecting Patrick or a 3rd round rookie as a net improvement here is simply wrong even if you think Daniels was overvalued by league GM's)
We lost Jason Peters
We lost Germain Ifedi and Alex Bars (not shedding a tear over either one)

That's 2 starters and 2 backups gone, with one borderline starter/backup in their place. And you think a single 3rd round pick changes this to a better OL than last year? GMAB. Absolute poppycock. Poles needs one more starter in FA to achieve fielding a better line than last year. And yes - ANYWHERE on the OL. Why?

Because Patrick can play either G/C, and Borom shouldn't be relied on as a starting T and should be viewed as a swing T or MAYBE get kicked inside. So with these moving pieces, we just need to add one starting caliber OL anywhere on this line and shuffle accordingly. If we land a G, Patrick plays C and we draft a T to compete with Borom. If we land a T, Borom is either swing T or competes with a drafted G (this is what I wanted us to do with Moses, let Borom compete with Moses and draft a G either 2nd or 3rd rd.)

Yeah Borom as a 2nd year guy and Jenkins as 2nd year and healthy I project as upgrades over Ifedi types
(*) Peters was actually decently solid last year

Sam Mustipher won't be starting - that alone is probably enough to make it better.

Losing Alex Bars shouldn't even be mentioned.

But yes thats better than last year (when we wouldn't have even had Peters)

Now - is this the same thing as saying we should be happy with the OL? Or that there isnt work to be done?? No.

But last years line wasn't anything besides average to below average (Not a train wreck but still)

[RichH55]

Uh, yea. I follow Bears football so obviously I understand the importance of 3T. Did you really think I didn't? I bet every single member of this board knows that and I like to treat folks with respect and assume they aren't morons man.

My question for you guys is....what happened to "shifting our cap spend to the offense" and "building around Justin Fields"? We spent our biggest cap expense on defense (granted, we got a refund, but point remains) instead of weapons or protection for Fields. Explain your pivot?

Man - just rough.

You take what you find. If the best option in FA is a 3T - and thats an important part of your Defense - you can grab that -

A) It isn't an absolute choice- It was never 3T OR OL. Never. Thats a false choice

B) Its not a 1 year process with Fields

C) Opportunity - Overpaying for a slightly above average Guard is a bad way to do FA business

And its resources - not Cap. A very, very important distinction.

If you draft Offense with both 2nds and the 4th - Thats not a monster Cap hit - It is ALOT of resources.

Most teams with a Rookie QB should be more balanced on Cap Spending than a team with a Vet QB starter (a good one) - that's the nature of the QB Cap hit.