Spending Money with Fields On HIs Rookie Deal

[southdakbearfan]

25 million in cap space, 38 unsigned players and 5 draft picks with no first rounders. (Saw this in a tweet from Adam rank I think). That is what Pace left Poles. That’s close to league minimum per roster spot.

If you thought this was to be a quick rebuild you were mistaken. This year is about getting younger and building a core while getting out from under the cap hell they were in. Could they have spent more already with some of the cap tricks, absolutely, but then that will limit further improvement in coming years as the can keeps getting kicked down the road. A 1 year reset of the cap let’s them get into the position that they can sign absolutely anyone they want in the upcoming years. It also puts the team in a much better position to absorb fields second contract up front without having a bloodletting of the roster.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

25 million in cap space, 38 unsigned players and 5 draft picks with no first rounders. (Saw this in a tweet from Adam rank I think). That is what Pace left Poles. That’s close to league minimum per roster spot.

If you thought this was to be a quick rebuild you were mistaken. This year is about getting younger and building a core while getting out from under the cap hell they were in. Could they have spent more already with some of the cap tricks, absolutely, but then that will limit further improvement in coming years as the can keeps getting kicked down the road. A 1 year reset of the cap let’s them get into the position that they can sign absolutely anyone they want in the upcoming years. It also puts the team in a much better position to absorb fields second contract up front without having a bloodletting of the roster.

Does that mean this is what some folks call a "tank" year?

[dplank]

Good post moriarty . But isn’t it easier to just say I’m hyper, quitting early, or some other nonsense instead of just accepting some criticism of our new savior?

[southdakbearfan]

25 million in cap space, 38 unsigned players and 5 draft picks with no first rounders. (Saw this in a tweet from Adam rank I think). That is what Pace left Poles. That’s close to league minimum per roster spot.

If you thought this was to be a quick rebuild you were mistaken. This year is about getting younger and building a core while getting out from under the cap hell they were in. Could they have spent more already with some of the cap tricks, absolutely, but then that will limit further improvement in coming years as the can keeps getting kicked down the road. A 1 year reset of the cap let’s them get into the position that they can sign absolutely anyone they want in the upcoming years. It also puts the team in a much better position to absorb fields second contract up front without having a bloodletting of the roster.

Does that mean this is what some folks call a "tank" year?

Idk, I will wait to see how the rest of free agency and the draft plays out. I don’t think they are trying to tank per se but I do believe they have imposed strict limits about how they will go about this season in an effort to set up the franchise for longer term success vs a veiled attempt at keeping a nonexistent window open.

It’s a financial correction season, how about that term.

[crueltyabc]

I suspect Poles himself is disappointed considering he's failed to:

Add his first choice OC
Add his first choice 3T
Add his first choice OG
Trade Nick Foles (he's still got a few weeks for this one)

Meanwhile, he could have spend $10m more on young OL, WR, and CB without impacting the "financial correction" that is under way but instead that money will be spent on older veterans in 3rd wave that have no chance of being part of the future. That's disappointing. I'm personally disappointed that he didn't add a third WR considering plenty of decent young WRs signed to < $5 deals. Same story with the oline... I know lots of you think Poles is a hero for not "overpaying" an OG or OT but I would prefer a young guy at $8-10m that might stick as compared to a stopgap older guy that will be signing next month for a few million less.

[AZ_Bearfan]

It’s a financial correction season, how about that term.

Agreed. To me a tank is when you purposely lose games for better draft status. This is more like Poles taking the medicine that Pace kept pouring into an empty 2 liter stashed in his closet.

[The Cooler King]

25 million in cap space, 38 unsigned players and 5 draft picks with no first rounders. (Saw this in a tweet from Adam rank I think). That is what Pace left Poles. That’s close to league minimum per roster spot.

If you thought this was to be a quick rebuild you were mistaken. This year is about getting younger and building a core while getting out from under the cap hell they were in. Could they have spent more already with some of the cap tricks, absolutely, but then that will limit further improvement in coming years as the can keeps getting kicked down the road. A 1 year reset of the cap let’s them get into the position that they can sign absolutely anyone they want in the upcoming years. It also puts the team in a much better position to absorb fields second contract up front without having a bloodletting of the roster.

Utter nonsense IMO. The cap gate that is opening up in 2033 is gonna be a classic case of diminishing returns. They of course had some cap constraints to deal with, but the level of spending is 100% a choice and a choice that doesn't even have any necessary positive impact on their future flexibility. There was no cap hell.

The spending spree in 2023 is probably gonna be massive. And I'm not sure that's healthy v the alternative of spreading spending out.

[southdakbearfan]

25 million in cap space, 38 unsigned players and 5 draft picks with no first rounders. (Saw this in a tweet from Adam rank I think). That is what Pace left Poles. That’s close to league minimum per roster spot.

If you thought this was to be a quick rebuild you were mistaken. This year is about getting younger and building a core while getting out from under the cap hell they were in. Could they have spent more already with some of the cap tricks, absolutely, but then that will limit further improvement in coming years as the can keeps getting kicked down the road. A 1 year reset of the cap let’s them get into the position that they can sign absolutely anyone they want in the upcoming years. It also puts the team in a much better position to absorb fields second contract up front without having a bloodletting of the roster.

Utter nonsense IMO. The cap gate that is opening up in 2033 is gonna be a classic case of diminishing returns. They of course had some cap constraints to deal with, but the level of spending is 100% a choice and a choice that doesn't even have any necessary positive impact on their future flexibility. There was no cap hell.

The spending spree in 2023 is probably gonna be massive. And I'm not sure that's healthy v the alternative of spreading spending out.

2033 is a long way off!!!!!!!

Interesting, so in your opinion there basically is no cap and all the teams in the past that did something very similar were crazy as well?

[dplank]

25 million in cap space, 38 unsigned players and 5 draft picks with no first rounders. (Saw this in a tweet from Adam rank I think). That is what Pace left Poles. That’s close to league minimum per roster spot.

If you thought this was to be a quick rebuild you were mistaken. This year is about getting younger and building a core while getting out from under the cap hell they were in. Could they have spent more already with some of the cap tricks, absolutely, but then that will limit further improvement in coming years as the can keeps getting kicked down the road. A 1 year reset of the cap let’s them get into the position that they can sign absolutely anyone they want in the upcoming years. It also puts the team in a much better position to absorb fields second contract up front without having a bloodletting of the roster.

Utter nonsense IMO. The cap gate that is opening up in 2033 is gonna be a classic case of diminishing returns. They of course had some cap constraints to deal with, but the level of spending is 100% a choice and a choice that doesn't even have any necessary positive impact on their future flexibility. There was no cap hell.

The spending spree in 2023 is probably gonna be massive. And I'm not sure that's healthy v the alternative of spreading spending out.

Agree 100%. You kind of have to spread it out because there's gonna be a big land rush of activity next year when lots of teams are flush with space just like we are, and talent pool appears limited. This thinking was how I got myself OK with the Ogun signing, people can keep strawmanning but it was never about W/L in 2022 or a 1 yr rebuild - it was about resource allocation and timing of availability. My preference, as stated frequently lol, was that we start that spending on our OL in particular because it has the doubling effect of helping JF1 in his crucial Y2 of development. After listening to darn near every person on this board talk about building around Fields and the need to improve our OL, I'm genuinely surprised that this isn't a more popular opinion.

Poles, IMO, absolutely should have overpaid to ensure we got Bates. The term "overpay" is scary lol. But in this context, an overpay is a very minor thing. Like, put a few million on top of the deal and front load it. Who cares about a couple million in this context, when we are going to have 130M available that we won't be able to spend anyways next year? The level of overpay matters a lot. It doesn't mean throwing 20M a year at the guy, just making it hurt enough so you get him. Poles tried to shave it to a razors edge and got caught penny pinching IMO. The person most affected by his miscalculation is JF1.

[crueltyabc]

I feel like I spent months arguing with @dplank and others that WR is the most important and now I'm sitting here wishing they'd signed literally any young player to a 3-year deal so we could be sure there's some talent on this 2022 team that is going to stick around. At this point I would take Honeybadger or a trade for Tunsil or whatever splash move you guys want because I don't want this 2022 team to be a weird mix of rookies and rental vets. There's no point to pinning the hopes of success in 2022 on mid-round draft picks and "culture". That's not actually trying and hell it's not even tanking because they didn't trade Quinn

[dplank]

I feel like I spent months arguing with @dplank and others that WR is the most important and now I'm sitting here wishing they'd signed literally any young player to a 3-year deal so we could be sure there's some talent on this 2022 team that is going to stick around. At this point I would take Honeybadger or a trade for Tunsil or whatever splash move you guys want because I don't want this 2022 team to be a weird mix of rookies and rental vets. There's no point to pinning the hopes of success in 2022 on mid-round draft picks and "culture". That's not actually trying and hell it's not even tanking because they didn't trade Quinn

Well you, and Joe Burrow, have convinced me that the WR route can work just as well as the OL route. Doing neither appears to be a poor plan tho.

[malk]

25 million in cap space, 38 unsigned players and 5 draft picks with no first rounders. (Saw this in a tweet from Adam rank I think). That is what Pace left Poles. That’s close to league minimum per roster spot.

If you thought this was to be a quick rebuild you were mistaken. This year is about getting younger and building a core while getting out from under the cap hell they were in. Could they have spent more already with some of the cap tricks, absolutely, but then that will limit further improvement in coming years as the can keeps getting kicked down the road. A 1 year reset of the cap let’s them get into the position that they can sign absolutely anyone they want in the upcoming years. It also puts the team in a much better position to absorb fields second contract up front without having a bloodletting of the roster.

Utter nonsense IMO. The cap gate that is opening up in 2033 is gonna be a classic case of diminishing returns. They of course had some cap constraints to deal with, but the level of spending is 100% a choice and a choice that doesn't even have any necessary positive impact on their future flexibility. There was no cap hell.

The spending spree in 2023 is probably gonna be massive. And I'm not sure that's healthy v the alternative of spreading spending out.

Just frontload Smith's new deal with more guaranteed 2023 salary instead of signing bonus. Same for any other free agents. It's trivially easy to get around.

But your general stance remains baffling. Even if one were to allow your general understanding, if Pace hadn't left us in a tight spot we'd have more cap space now rather than next year and I fail to see how that wouldn't be a materially relevant good thing?

[dave99]

I am a little curious as to how many of the folks that were arguing that Pace should get another year are now asking for Poles head after two months.
I think he has made some rookie mistakes, but his plan has always been to build through the draft. That is his background and expertise.
Poles was just not left enough talent, money or draft picks to do much but plugs holes in a leaky boat sailing into 2022.

It is worth remembering that the Chiefs started two rookies on the OL last year both of whom played very well, one Creed Humphreys was a late second round pick the other Trey Smith, a guard was a six round selection. it is very likely that Poles overseeing college scouting has a little something to do with those picks.

Now maybe going into 2022 with one or two rookies isn't ideal and no we don't have a pro bowl tackle manning the blind side, but with the right scheme and coaching it can work.

[dplank]

Honest question Dave, who are the folks that have asked for Poles head? I haven't seen a single poster do that, did I miss it? Would agree, that'd be nuts.

[dave99]

Honest question Dave, who are the folks that have asked for Poles head? I haven't seen a single poster do that, did I miss it? Would agree, that'd be nuts.

I am prone to hyperbole, one of my more irritating flaws.
I have noted some pretty scathing comments including at least one that claimed he is worse than Pace and that comes close.
But my main point was that he inherited a mess and while he has stumbled a bit, he does seem to have a plan and a track record of building an OL.
So maybe give him a chance.
It is way too early for all of this doom and gloom.
Plenty of time for that later.

[crueltyabc]

I've been calling for Pace to be fired for years because of mediocrity. If they'd fired him before all of the desperate contract changes last year it would have been a fine team to hand over. As it was, he left Poles with a promising QB and a few good players. The draft and cap situation are overblown - after trading Mack and cutting some guys I think the Bears were toward the middle of the league in terms of offseason assets.

Picks
39
48
71
148
150
186
+$25ish million

Poles could be making moves right now but he's choosing to be very cautious and I think it's unnecessary. That's what all the fussing is about. I think the people saying "leave him alone" are either choosing to be optimistic because they like being optimistic, or exaggerating the badness of the situation.

[The Cooler King]

Utter nonsense IMO. The cap gate that is opening up in 2033 is gonna be a classic case of diminishing returns. They of course had some cap constraints to deal with, but the level of spending is 100% a choice and a choice that doesn't even have any necessary positive impact on their future flexibility. There was no cap hell.

The spending spree in 2023 is probably gonna be massive. And I'm not sure that's healthy v the alternative of spreading spending out.

Just frontload Smith's new deal with more guaranteed 2023 salary instead of signing bonus. Same for any other free agents. It's trivially easy to get around.

Its actually the exact opposite issue. They need to backload some deals if they want to meet cash minimums. In other words they need to outspend what is already very large cap space.

[The Cooler King]

But your general stance remains baffling. Even if one were to allow your general understanding, if Pace hadn't left us in a tight spot we'd have more cap space now rather than next year and I fail to see how that wouldn't be a materially relevant good thing?

The "tight spot" is being waaayyy overstated by many though. Things like "Cap hell". No cap hell or anywhere near it.

It's less of a tight spot overall than it is a timing conundrum. The timing is very simple to solve for though.

If they had more space next year and this year, it's ultimately the same problem magnified. Lots of space and bit much internally to spend it on. Now thats where Pace really failed. Loss of picks, failure to develop the ones he had. Loss of production. The development wasn't there, but after a big 2018 splurge which he has saved for, things were pretty moderate in cap terms.

To the extent Paces cap was inhibiting, it was really a 2021 issue by and large (an issue made worse by the cap crunch which many teams "struggled" with)

[RichH55]

I feel like I spent months arguing with @dplank and others that WR is the most important and now I'm sitting here wishing they'd signed literally any young player to a 3-year deal so we could be sure there's some talent on this 2022 team that is going to stick around. At this point I would take Honeybadger or a trade for Tunsil or whatever splash move you guys want because I don't want this 2022 team to be a weird mix of rookies and rental vets. There's no point to pinning the hopes of success in 2022 on mid-round draft picks and "culture". That's not actually trying and hell it's not even tanking because they didn't trade Quinn

Well you, and Joe Burrow, have convinced me that the WR route can work just as well as the OL route. Doing neither appears to be a poor plan tho.

Where did they get that stud WR for him? (And of yeah - they had a 1st - and Burrow also showed an Ocean more as a rookie than Fields did)

But yeah - if the Bengals fan version of Dplank was talking about the Bengals offseason last year - on March 30th - He'd be saying it was fixed? And that was with Trent Williams potentially out there!!!

It's all odd to me - especially when the argument is like : We should have signed Morgan Moses!!!

[dplank]

If we had a high first round draft pick I’d have a very different take on a number of things. But we don’t. So your point is moot. If we were in line to nab a Waddle or Chase type talent, this entire discussion would be different.

[RichH55]

If we had a high first round draft pick I’d have a very different take on a number of things. But we don’t. So your point is moot. If we were in line to nab a Waddle or Chase type talent, this entire discussion would be different.

How would the Bengals have nabbed Chase by March 30th last year?

That is my point as I have to listen to How on Earth did we not get Morgan Moses (and for some reason we get the exact same deal as the Ravens) for the next Month? Every day, 3 times a day?

[dplank]

Because they had a very high first round pick and there were 3 elite WRs coming out. They knew they’d get one of them.

If you wanna poke about repetition, how about you coming on this board to rip on JF1 week after week after week after week? Enough. Stop poking. Now. No one wants you to return to your prior form, but your edging that way.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I’m happy with building through the draft but we only have 6 picks.

So creating many more holes in the roster does not really allow you to adequately build through the draft.

We had too many holes and Poles has created a few more. That’s concerning for me.

[dave99]

I’m happy with building through the draft but we only have 6 picks.

So creating many more holes in the roster does not really allow you to adequately build through the draft.

We had too many holes and Poles has created a few more. That’s concerning for me.

This is a pretty rich draft for OL and receivers and I expect Poles will be looking to trade down and pick up some extra picks.
And again this year is a tear down. Judge results by the roster that comes out of training camp 2023.
I think DBB said it pretty well:

But sadly, the Bears are at a weird organizational crossroads. They drafted their quarterback of the future and then fired the whole of their football operations the following season. Poles must act like Fields’ rookie season never happened; operate like Fields will be the team’s first round pick this season. And then he must build the roster accordingly moving forward. Poles and Flus start with a clean slate in Chicago. Fields should too.

Fields might become a great player. He also might not. For now, the Bears will be patient. They’ll keep the future in focus, at the expense of 2022. Can fans of the franchise do the same?

I'm not saying Poles has done everything right and I don't think he would either. He's young and green and there is no one at Halas Hall to mentor him. This was always going to be an issue with this kind of hire.
Some of us thought they should go with a more experienced hand, but they didn't and now we have to hope that he learns from his mistakes and grows into the job.
From everything I have heard and read he is very bright, hard working and has good instincts so there is no reason to think he won't succeed.
So for now, I intend to practice unaccustomed patience and see what happens.

[RichH55]

Because they had a very high first round pick and there were 3 elite WRs coming out. They knew they’d get one of them.

If you wanna poke about repetition, how about you coming on this board to rip on JF1 week after week after week after week? Enough. Stop poking. Now. No one wants you to return to your prior form, but your edging that way.

Noting that people put zero fault on Fields is fair game (I got yelled at because I didn't pay enough deference to his friggin Pro Day!)

Going all in on its over - OL is "terrible" etc etc BEFORE THE DRAFT - it's bad.

If no Morgan Moses is armageddon - so be it - you can crow

But here's the thing: It isn't

[RichH55]

I’m happy with building through the draft but we only have 6 picks.

So creating many more holes in the roster does not really allow you to adequately build through the draft.

We had too many holes and Poles has created a few more. That’s concerning for me.

But you do get he's playing the hand he's dealt.

Like I love Hicks the player and human being - but he doesn't make a lot of sense for this roster.

And sadly I'm coming around on Mack (still feel in my gut we didn't get enough - but I know logically that probably isn't true - and that 2nd is a good pick to have)

[RichH55]

Because they had a very high first round pick and there were 3 elite WRs coming out. They knew they’d get one of them.

If you wanna poke about repetition, how about you coming on this board to rip on JF1 week after week after week after week? Enough. Stop poking. Now. No one wants you to return to your prior form, but your edging that way.

And BTW - you ummmmmmmm absolutely did comment (again and again) on me pointing out (again, rightly) that Fields had his issues.

Why aren't you taking your own advice? I get you don't want to listen to old Rich - but what about shining star Dplank!??!

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I’m happy with building through the draft but we only have 6 picks.

So creating many more holes in the roster does not really allow you to adequately build through the draft.

We had too many holes and Poles has created a few more. That’s concerning for me.

But you do get he's playing the hand he's dealt.

Like I love Hicks the player and human being - but he doesn't make a lot of sense for this roster.

And sadly I'm coming around on Mack (still feel in my gut we didn't get enough - but I know logically that probably isn't true - and that 2nd is a good pick to have)

He’s made choices with the hand he’s been dealt.

He had options.

I don’t see the point in having hundreds of millions in cap space but a shit team on the field.
It might please the owners but he won’t last long if that’s the strategy.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Because they had a very high first round pick and there were 3 elite WRs coming out. They knew they’d get one of them.

I rather suspect the Bengals would have drafted an OT (probably Penei Sewell who went two picks later the Lions) if Chase hadn't been available. It was the chance of reuniting Chase with Burrow that persuaded them to pick WR over strengthening his protection. There was quite a debate about which route they would go.

He's young and green and there is no one at Halas Hall to mentor him. This was always going to be an issue with this kind of hire.
Some of us thought they should go with a more experienced hand, but they didn't and now we have to hope that he learns from his mistakes and grows into the job.
From everything I have heard and read he is very bright, hard working and has good instincts so there is no reason to think he won't succeed.

I seem to recall people saying the exact same things about another Ryan P.

[dplank]

I seem to recall people saying the exact same things about another Ryan P.

....and preaching patience right up until about 4 months ago...

I rode with Pace until the end of the 2020 season, then recognized both he and Nagy had really failed and for the future outlook of the franchise both needed to go and we needed a reset.

Poles and Eberflus will get the same consideration from me. He gets a few years before I'd ever seriously consider replacing him, he deserves the time to execute his vision/plan. I will still have an opinion (some good, some bad) on individual moves he makes along the way - because Bears Board exists for such things.