Kollmann: Ranking OL in the draft

[dave99]

Some interesting perspectives.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Yeah very interesting.

Petit-Frere gets a very low ranking as does Luke Goedeke

Cheers Dave

[Yogi da Bear]

I love Kollmann. He certainly watches a lot more tape than I do (wish I had his access). Having said that, I'm shocked by his appraisal of Petit-Frere. What's curious when he was talking about Tier 5 in a bunch, the two clips he had of Petit-Frere were pretty impressive ones of him in Pass Pro. Wish he would have explained the problems he had with him. I'll bet that he's a Day 2 pick, and I figured he'd go Round 2. Will be interesting to see who's right.

I thought he was also really unfair to Rosenthal. I watched many games of this guy, and I never saw those plays he showed where he looked so technically inept. He obviously took the absolute worst of him. In all the clips I saw, his technique was MUCH better than that, and he really only struggled in lapses. Again, in THREE YEARS playing an SEC schedule, he only allowed three sacks. If Kollmann's clips of him were truly reflective, he would have allowed many more than that. In fact, he didn't show a single beneficial play of his, of which there were many. If his LSU suspension checks out, he's going in the fourth, minimum.

[Moriarty]

I thought he was also really unfair to Rosenthal. I watched many games of this guy, and I never saw those plays he showed where he looked so technically inept. He obviously took the absolute worst of him. In all the clips I saw, his technique was MUCH better than that, and he really only struggled in lapses. Again, in THREE YEARS playing an SEC schedule, he only allowed three sacks. If Kollmann's clips of him were truly reflective, he would have allowed many more than that. In fact, he didn't show a single beneficial play of his, of which there were many. If his LSU suspension checks out, he's going in the fourth, minimum.

I don't do tape evaluation, but I do know that his take is a lot more common than yours.

This is from a site that loves Rosenthal (highest ranking I've seen for him):

His raw skill set is apparent when you watch him play—if you’re looking for high level football fundamentals and a finished product, you’re going to be sorely disappointed with his framing on the edge and his hand implementation. But oh, my goodness, this is one of the most physically gifted big men in the class, bar none.

Rosenthal is certainly a raw football player and his fundamentals are going to need a complete overhaul. I’d consider him starting from square one in some instances.

[RichH55]

Very good stuff

Didn't even have the Wake Forest kid on my radar

If you made me bet money on two guys and we pick one of them:
I'd go Tulsa kid and tOSU kid

[RichH55]

Only made me like Fortner more - I like this class of OL overall

[Yogi da Bear]

I thought he was also really unfair to Rosenthal. I watched many games of this guy, and I never saw those plays he showed where he looked so technically inept. He obviously took the absolute worst of him. In all the clips I saw, his technique was MUCH better than that, and he really only struggled in lapses. Again, in THREE YEARS playing an SEC schedule, he only allowed three sacks. If Kollmann's clips of him were truly reflective, he would have allowed many more than that. In fact, he didn't show a single beneficial play of his, of which there were many. If his LSU suspension checks out, he's going in the fourth, minimum.

I don't do tape evaluation, but I do know that his take is a lot more common than yours.

This is from a site that loves Rosenthal (highest ranking I've seen for him):

His raw skill set is apparent when you watch him play—if you’re looking for high level football fundamentals and a finished product, you’re going to be sorely disappointed with his framing on the edge and his hand implementation. But oh, my goodness, this is one of the most physically gifted big men in the class, bar none.

Rosenthal is certainly a raw football player and his fundamentals are going to need a complete overhaul. I’d consider him starting from square one in some instances.

That take is certainly better than Kolmann's (still would like to know the problems he has with Petit-Frere).

My problem is that they both act like he has absolutely no technique whatsoever, that he has to be totally torn down first. Kolmann exhibits this by showing a couple of "lowlight" clips. My belief is that Rosenthal has been taught technique (he did play on a very good LSU line for two years), but he has lapses and has problems with awareness. Sometimes, he just doesn't display good fundamentals and sometimes he seems lost. But remember, he was recruited to LSU as the 18th best DT in the Nation and has only played OL for three years. Those lapses and lack of awareness should be expected as he's still learning the position.

My belief though is that he doesn't have to be totally torn down. What Kollman doesn't show is that many times Rosenthal displays good technique and when he does, he totally dominates his opponent. And when he doesn't show good technique, he's almost always saved by his pure athleticism. It's my belief that he doesn't need to be torn out, he just needs more consistency and awareness, and you get that through experience. Oh, no question, he needs a drill master pounding it into his head the fundamentals until he gets it consistently, like it's second nature. But the fundamentals are there most of the time. With that in mind, here's his game tape against Georgia (the best defense in the nation last year--I already posted his Missouri game tape in my basket). He's #51 the LT:



And I'd just like to repost this clip



Again DAMMMmmmm. That's the kind of attitude that Poles has said he's looking for. And with Rosenthal's athleticism, he's only going to get better. Although he does have to fill out some, he already is probably the most athletic Offensive Lineman in the draft. If you're drafting offensive tackles outside of the first round, you're going to get some warts, or he'd be going in the first. But this guy has the ability to become a true monster. And yes, I believe he knows the fundamentals. They just aren't second nature to him yet. He has lapses. But usually his athleticism will allow him to overcome those.

[Bearfacts]

Parham or Green look to me like two 2nd round guys to target. I'd be shocked if either Johnson or Linderbaum fell out of round one.

Two OTs who I believe would be good fits are Zach Tom and Max Mitchell. Both have the kind of multi-position ability that can come in handy as we re-tool the OL and both have played as LT in college. These are both guys who should be available in round 3 or later.

[RichH55]

I was very very surprised by how much I liked Zach Tom

[Grizzled]

Parham or Green look to me like two 2nd round guys to target. I'd be shocked if either Johnson or Linderbaum fell out of round one.

Two OTs who I believe would be good fits are Zach Tom and Max Mitchell. Both have the kind of multi-position ability that can come in handy as we re-tool the OL and both have played as LT in college. These are both guys who should be available in round 3 or later.

Tom tested very strongly at the combine. Both he and Mitchell played in zone blocking schemes in college.

[TheWorldBreaker]

Very good stuff

Didn't even have the Wake Forest kid on my radar

If you made me bet money on two guys and we pick one of them:
I'd go Tulsa kid and tOSU kid

Which Tulsa kid? Tyler Smith or Chris Paul?

[TheWorldBreaker]

Parham or Green look to me like two 2nd round guys to target. I'd be shocked if either Johnson or Linderbaum fell out of round one.

Two OTs who I believe would be good fits are Zach Tom and Max Mitchell. Both have the kind of multi-position ability that can come in handy as we re-tool the OL and both have played as LT in college. These are both guys who should be available in round 3 or later.

Tom tested very strongly at the combine. Both he and Mitchell played in zone blocking schemes in college.

Tom also played center and left tackle, so could potentially play any position on the line which is impressive versatility.

And Mitchell played both right tackle and left tackle in the same game against Texas. I’d always heard that was difficult because your footwork was reversed from the other position but he didn’t really miss a beat.

Would be very happy with either of those guys.

[Bearfacts]

Parham or Green look to me like two 2nd round guys to target. I'd be shocked if either Johnson or Linderbaum fell out of round one.

Two OTs who I believe would be good fits are Zach Tom and Max Mitchell. Both have the kind of multi-position ability that can come in handy as we re-tool the OL and both have played as LT in college. These are both guys who should be available in round 3 or later.

Tom tested very strongly at the combine. Both he and Mitchell played in zone blocking schemes in college.

Both seem to carry a nearly identical 3rd round ranking as so several other players the Bears have shown an interest in.

Here's a composite draft board of player rankings done by WCG.

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2022/ ... orts-other

If the draft ever followed rankings this would say that DT like Travis Jones and Logan Hall fall in line with our #48 pick while others we shown an interest in like Tyler Smith and Skye Moore more closely align with our #39 pick. This is where I might trade back with a pick worth 510 points that could get me a later round 2nd and a 3rd or possibly a late 3rd and a 4th.

One previous post I made placed a value on positions by round and OL drafted in the middle rounds 3-5 tended to provide the best value whereas WR tended to show higher value in earlier rounds. If I used that as a guideline I'd be bargain shopping a WR at that point willing to pass if an OL I had on my board had a similar ranking. Or I trade back again and try to get both.

For this draft if I'm Poles I'm probably gonna rank OL and DL positions ahead of WR if all other factors are equal.